An American 2nd Amendment thread (Page 17/23)
maryjane MAY 02, 10:26 PM

quote
Originally posted by sourmash:


Are you insinuating our government doesn't want to pursue the truth openly?



No.
It (our govt) may not want to, but that was not what my post stated or implied.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-02-2021).]

rinselberg MAY 03, 04:15 AM
"How the A.T.F., Key to Biden’s Gun Plan, Became an N.R.A. ‘Whipping Boy’"

quote
The federal agency tasked with enforcing gun laws has been hamstrung for years by the firearms lobby. Now, the president’s plan to rein in gun violence hinges on the A.T.F.’s success.

Glenn Thrush, Danny Hakim and Mike McIntire for the New York Times; May 2, 2021.
https://www.nytimes.com/202...cs/atf-nra-guns.html

A "read" indeed . . . 16 minutes (Read-o-Meter.) A plethora of photographs. It's protected by a subscriber paywall, but if you haven't been going online (to the New York Times) you would (should) have access as a "freebie." And if not, there's a "hack" that could get you access, that's been shared by forum member maryjane. You can use this link to read what maryjane said about this.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/...ML/126343-2.html#p46

I have not read it or even scrolled through it in any systematic way.

If you are reading this, I think you would not deem it a waste of your time to access the article (if you can do it) and give it a quick "eyes on" to see if it looks like something you would like to read or scroll through.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-03-2021).]

Hudini MAY 03, 06:00 AM
Oh the big bad gun lobby representing 5 million citizens? Ha, I would love to hear the salt but alas I cannot force myself to read another progressive diatribe written with the idea that my inalienable constitutional rights are subject to government approval. I am a citizen, not a subject.
sourmash MAY 03, 09:05 AM
Rinse, you ignored my response to you.


quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

From one of my previous posts:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/...L/125575-3.html#p118

I don't know how many guns were "gun-walked" to Mexico during "Fast and Furious" but surely it could only have been like a drop in an ocean of more than 2 million guns.

Would you (2.5) say that the Katie Pavlich video that you just posted contradicts that estimate from Mexico's Foreign Ministry, which was published in the New York Times?



Will you admit that our government violates the regs and laws it claims are there to preserve safety?
rinselberg MAY 03, 10:24 AM

quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

Rinse, you ignored my response to you.

Will you admit that our government violates the regs and laws it claims are there to preserve safety?


Why is your question worded in a way that suggests that I have ever denied it?

Yes. Taking the government of the United States at all levels, from the most central and national authorities at the federal level, to the most local offices of regional or county or municipal government, and considering every day of every year from 1787 (or 1619) forwards to date, and considering every possibility for government violating the laws, codes, protocols and executive orders (etc.) that pertain to public safety, occupational safety, transportation safety, firearms safety (etc.), there's no doubt that U.S. government has at certain times and for certain periods of time done exactly that (violations of safety) and will doubtless do so again in the future. It is most assuredly happening at this very moment.

Where does your ask or question take us?

I have not read or even scrolled through the 2A-related article that I just posted (three forum messages back from this one) but I think it's likely there is significant intersectionality between this ask or question from "sourmash" and the content of that article.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-03-2021).]

sourmash MAY 03, 11:16 AM
Just reread how you didn't answer the question for insight in why it was asked as it was.

I didn't ask if they acted in a way that subverts public safety. I noted, violates regs and laws, not safety. Laws and regs passed for supposed public safety.

Will you admit that the FEDERAL government, specifically the BATFE, has violated federal regs and laws?

It was asked in an initially certain phrasing because as you know we recognize that your positions are as a media statist and frankly as an apologist for an increasingly authoritarian state.

[This message has been edited by sourmash (edited 05-03-2021).]

rinselberg MAY 03, 03:46 PM

quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

Just reread how you didn't answer the question for insight in why it was asked as it was.

I didn't ask if they acted in a way that subverts public safety. I noted, violates regs and laws, not safety. Laws and regs passed for supposed public safety.

Will you admit that the FEDERAL government, specifically the BATFE, has violated federal regs and laws?

It was asked in an initially certain phrasing because as you know we recognize that your positions are as a media statist and frankly as an apologist for an increasingly authoritarian state.


It seems inescapable that the FEDERAL government, specifically the BATFE, has violated federal laws and regulations. My mind goes to the "Fast & Furious" operation and other similar "gun-walking" operations during the tenure of U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder. But I couldn't tell you exactly which federal laws and regulations were violated. Is there a federal law or regulation (?) that reads "Undercover operations involving straw purchasers of firearms and what would otherwise be illegal firearms trafficking are allowed, but cannot be allowed to spiral out of control and become a government maintained profit center for criminals and criminal organizations."

You changed the wording of your question. Before, you posed it using the present tense: "violates . . ." This time, you used the past tense: "has violated . . ." That makes it easier and more agreeable for me to respond to your question in the affirmative sense of "I admit . . .".

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-03-2021).]

rinselberg MAY 03, 03:54 PM

quote
Originally posted by Hudini:
Oh the big bad gun lobby representing 5 million citizens? Ha, I would love to hear the salt but alas I cannot force myself to read another progressive diatribe written with the idea that my inalienable constitutional rights are subject to government approval. I am a citizen, not a subject.


As I said, I have not read it or even scrolled through it carefully, but I do believe it is chock full of interviews with former ATF managers and agents who describe their experiences at ATF in considerable detail. Think "granular."
sourmash MAY 03, 04:24 PM
One of the for-profit gun dealers calling in for transfers notified the ATF that they were approving multiple gun sale transfers to gang and probable straw purchase buyers. The ATF instructed the store to continue to approve the sales & transfers.

Then the FEDERAL gov goes on the public offensive about the number of American arms being used in cross border crimes.
rinselberg MAY 03, 06:22 PM

quote
Originally posted by sourmash:
One of the for-profit gun dealers calling in for transfers notified the ATF that they were approving multiple gun sale transfers to gang and probable straw purchase buyers. The ATF instructed the store to continue to approve the sales & transfers. Then the FEDERAL gov goes on the public offensive about the number of American arms being used in cross border crimes.


This takes me back to something that I already said.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/...L/125575-4.html#p153