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Rebuild of Indy Fiero #163 Super Duty 4 by fierosound
Started on: 11-03-2008 08:53 AM
Replies: 261 (51827 views)
Last post by: fierosound on 05-16-2018 12:42 AM
fierosound
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Report this Post07-28-2017 10:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:

curious to see how you make that last bend with the throttle cable- re-using the bellcrank from previous iteration?


Yes. It will be the easiest solution and I can use the cables I have.
The TB's bracket would bring the cables over the valve cover (ugly).
And the current cables don't fit the Dodge bracket holes.

Pretty close now.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 03-25-2018).]

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KurtAKX
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Report this Post07-28-2017 03:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KurtAKXSend a Private Message to KurtAKXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:





OK, one other question.

Looks like you've got a GM knock sensor screwed in there;
how did you choose a knock sensor, since there are a plethora of options?
[very incomplete list.....]
10456288 (4.3 and 5.7)
10456287 (5.0)
10456549 (7.4)
10456208 (3.1)
10456209 (2.2 pushrod)
I have heard the "bore diameter" thing before, but I'm not convinced.

[This message has been edited by KurtAKX (edited 07-28-2017).]

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fierosound
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Report this Post07-29-2017 12:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:

I have heard the "bore diameter" thing before, but I'm not convinced.



Not sure how else you will decide then...

Pretty sure I got one for a 1993 Chev S10 with 2.5 Duke.
That's the closest SD4 engine "relative" - AND they have the same bore.
https://goo.gl/FCYTeK

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 03-25-2018).]

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fierosound
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Report this Post07-30-2017 04:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

It's in! The engine runs!

Not very driveable at present - fuel map is all wrong.
Have contacted the fellow who helped TunerPro it last time.







[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 07-30-2017).]

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fierosound
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Report this Post07-30-2017 04:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Also, thanks to Cody, I was able to obtain the #163 Indy Parade Car Plate.
So after 33 years, it's can again be shown on the car it belongs to.



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KurtAKX
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Report this Post07-31-2017 09:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KurtAKXSend a Private Message to KurtAKXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

[u][/u]
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:


Not sure how else you will decide then...

Pretty sure I got one for a 1993 Chev S10 with 2.5 Duke.
That's the closest SD4 engine "relative" - AND they have the same bore.


Do you happen to have a part number? I don't see a knock sensor on GMPartsdirect, Rockauto, or Advance Auto sites.

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fierosound
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Report this Post07-31-2017 10:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:

[u][/u]Do you happen to have a part number? I don't see a knock sensor on GMPartsdirect, Rockauto, or Advance Auto sites.


Oops... I think it was a 91 S10...
or '93 https://goo.gl/FCYTeK

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 03-25-2018).]

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post08-01-2017 12:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:

Still working to get this engine running EFI with the 1227165 ECM and NVRAM
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...2/HTML/119333-6.html

We've been fighting with it for almost 2 months and just couldn't get it right.
It was finally pointed out that the jumper settings to configure the NVRAM board to run the TBI probably weren't right. (didn't get a PDF with the thing)

So once I get that corrected, it may be "start from scratch" again.

BUT... it may be better and faster progress.



One of the cleanest SD4 builds that I've seen. As for tuning are you scanning and taking a log? Those early C3 ECM's can be tricky to tune but the guys on the Moates forum seem to have the process down pat.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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fierosound
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Report this Post08-02-2017 12:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

One of the cleanest SD4 builds that I've seen. As for tuning are you scanning and taking a log?
Those early C3 ECM's can be tricky to tune but the guys on the Moates forum seem to have the process down pat.



Thanks Dennis

I'm completely set up using TunerPro RT (Real Time) 'live' emulator that can also scan and datalog.
All through the ALDL port with a 1227165 ECM : https://pcmhacking.net/foru...topic.php?f=27&t=356

I'm still checking a few things and may need to start with a different BIN than I have now.
These guys know their stuff too: http://www.gearhead-efi.com...7248d86a7e5f6178e6b6

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 08-02-2017).]

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FieroMaster88
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Report this Post08-02-2017 07:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Click Here to Email FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Ok, I'm sending you my Indy! That is one clean engine.

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fierosound
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Report this Post08-03-2017 09:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I test drove the Indy today.

Even with the rough tune - it's never run this good!

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Report this Post08-06-2017 11:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I am making progress.

I got most of the base parameters in my BIN in pretty good shape.
Got my fuel grams/second figured out. Idles great at 13.5 - 14.0 AFR.
RPM was be too high when engine started hot or cold - fixed that.
Took a long time for RPM to come down to idle from hot or cold start - fixed that.
Engine took too long for RPM to come down to idle from blipping throttle - fixed decay rate.
Other minor changes in base parameters at this point only. Haven't touched any fuel/spark tables yet.

So now the SD4 starts good, idles quite well for 'lumpy' engine and is quite driveable.
I will be driving with TunerPro RT and recording Datalogs to to see what it needs in more detail.

Solved a minor problem I was having with ECM throwing a Code 24 for VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor).
CEL (Check Engine Light) would come on at about 4800 rpm when accelerating and engine would buck.

Here is what playing back TunerPro DataLog showed ECM was seeing.
I'm accelerating "floored" (See TPS, MAP, and RPM) in 2nd gear +60kph when ECM suddenly thinks I'm at 0 and cuts fuel.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 08-19-2017).]

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Report this Post08-19-2017 08:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Just an update...

I finally FOUND the source of the problem causing all the headaches.
An intermittent short of the battery cable near the starter on a heat shield.

On the '84, all the supply wires with fusible links connect there too.
So anytime the short touched, the ECM etc. all lost power for a milli-second.

New cable fixed everything. And it is now well protected.

This engine has NEVER run so well before...
Much, much better than the carburetor or Fast TBI on there before.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 08-19-2017).]

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Report this Post09-18-2017 09:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LilchiefSend a Private Message to LilchiefEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Glad to here it's running better. Does it seem to have more power ? How about mpg. A sound video would be cool. Any tips on your intake mods for the injectors, like hole sizes and depth if stepped. and angles. Keep up the great craftsmanship, and ingenuity.

------------------

85 GT 3.4
14.9 @ 90 1.9 60' Old TH125/3.06
Unknown New 4T60/3.42

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Report this Post02-14-2018 11:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlackwaterSend a Private Message to BlackwaterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I'm brand new here!! First let me say that this is a BEAUTIFUL project!! Very well executed!!

I have a couple of questions. I'm doing research for a project of my own and have already gleaned some great information from this thread. I've read it from beginning to end and it's a great thread!! I'm building an older 153" Chevy II engine and I'm searching for a roller camshaft for my project. I know that the cam bearings and timing gear are the same for both engines and that the crankshafts can be interchanged with a little work. I also know that the very early "Iron Dukes" used the same camshaft and lifters as the 153s.

Here is the first question: Were the lifter bores on the later crossflow Iron Duke and SD blocks different from the earlier castings? Did they change the lifter bore angle or placement?

The second question is for the original poster. Again!! I'm impressed with the level of fit and finish of your project and with your determination to get this working. This is NOT criticism!! I'm just curious!! Have you considered having a little extra material added to the narrow spots on your header flange?? I had to do this to the header on my 153, but it CURED the exhaust leak and gasket damage problems.

Like I said. I'm new here!! I hope I can pick up some much needed information and education here. I'm an experienced mechanic and fabricator, (retired) with fifty years worth of knowledge and training. I owned one of the first Fieros in Nashville, TN, a 4spd LE model. The GTs and such came out later. Maybe I'll build another one someday.

------------------
Never use a minor caliber bullet on a major caliber opponent!!

[This message has been edited by Blackwater (edited 02-14-2018).]

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Report this Post02-23-2018 03:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LilchiefSend a Private Message to LilchiefEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Tony, sent you an email.

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fierosound
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Report this Post02-24-2018 03:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Blackwater -->> Thank you and welcome to PFF
Lilchief -->> email replied to

Chev 153" engine is a similar but different animal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...53_4-cylinder_engine

I do not have any answers to the questions you posed.
But the SD4 Engine Guide has engine blueprints in it.
http://www.fieronews.net/fu...id=21&download_id=87

I used the cam that was in the SD4 engine and
had it reground by Colt Cams here in Canada.
http://www.coltcams.com/

Header seems to be OK right now, so I don't need to take it off.

------------------
My World of Wheels Winners (Click on links below)

3.4L Supercharged 87 GT and Super Duty 4 Indy #163

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 02-24-2018).]

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Blackwater
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Report this Post02-26-2018 07:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlackwaterSend a Private Message to BlackwaterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I appreciate the response! I've gained a little more info since that last post! The valve train layout is different between the later crossflow head and the older unit. The valves in the newer head are I E I E E I E I. The older head is E I I E E I I E. The later head COULD be adapted fairly easily, BUT I already have an older head ported, polished, new valves installed with new keepers, springs, retainers, larger stainless valves, guide plates, and professionally assembled.

I talked to Geoff at Colt Cams. If I can find a blank, he'll grind a cam for me!!

Thanks again for all the information you've put together!!

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fierosound
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Report this Post03-25-2018 05:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Blackwater:

Thanks again for all the information you've put together!!




Start your own thread about the 153ci engine and move this stuff there so we don't clutter this thread.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 03-25-2018).]

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Report this Post05-15-2018 05:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thank goodness for Pick n Pull!

The last tuning I was doing with TunerPro showed that I needed MORE AIR above 5000rpm.



So I got the Dodge 5.2/5.9 V8 throttle body (OEM by Holley) with it's bigger 2" bores on the right.
It's identical to the V6 TB otherwise, so the only other thing I needed to do was bore the adapter plate to match.



The Holley performance single injector TB for the Iron Duke is also a 2" bore.



While I was in there, I decided to make the throttle wheel look better too.



I test drove it the other day.
I think this is the perfect combination.
Now it's a matter of fine tuning with TunerPro RT.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-19-2018).]

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shemdogg
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Report this Post05-15-2018 05:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for shemdoggSend a Private Message to shemdoggEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Bro the car n motor are BEAUTIFULLLLLL! very nice!

shem

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fierosound
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Report this Post05-16-2018 12:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by shemdogg:

Bro the car n motor are BEAUTIFULLLLLL! very nice!

shem


Thank you... your comment is appreciated.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-19-2018).]

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