Are there any gear reduction starters readily available for the '85 2.5 automatic?

Mine is still original, been fixing it forever, almost left me stranded (swelling bushings when hot, random acting solenoid, etc.). Or should I just buy a new "standard" direct drive one?

EDIT: Does maybe anyone happen to know the original starter front bushing dimensions? I could only find the drive side ones.

Thanks.

[This message has been edited by cebix (edited 08-13-2017).]

victory lap sells rebuild kits, bendix, bushings and brushes, and solnoid

The 2.5 4 cyl doesn't take much to turn over a standard starter should be all you need..
You are not spinning a 13 to 1 engine.. is your timing way off,?

It's just that this starter has been rebuilt badly too many times. Actually I think it was assembled from two or three different ones. Parts are not available here. That's why dimensions would give me some info on what can I fit in.

So you're saying a gear reduction is not a huge advantage here? Are the ACDELCO remanufactured units worth it? They are $50 on rockauto. Shipping the core to USA is not an option.

EDIT: I've been reading on the 98 Grand Prix starters - are they interchangeable without mods on my 2.5? Somebody said something about shims - my current starter has none. There's a TYC gear reduction starter for the 98 GP for $60 on rockauto - worth it or China crap?

[This message has been edited by cebix (edited 08-13-2017).]

quote Originally posted by cebix: It's just that this starter has been rebuilt badly too many times. Actually I think it was assembled from two or three different ones. Parts are not available here. That's why dimensions would give me some info on what can I fit in. So you're saying a gear reduction is not a huge advantage here? Are the ACDELCO remanufactured units worth it? They are $50 on rockauto. Shipping the core to USA is not an option. EDIT: I've been reading on the 98 Grand Prix starters - are they interchangeable without mods on my 2.5? Somebody said something about shims - my current starter has none.

I bought a new starter not a rebuilt.. You are in the motherland..
Are there opel dealerships, or buick.. you might be able to order it that way..
it was a remy part #96202 it was 83 bucks..
or
ACDELCO 3371020 {#88877119} Professional 90.00 bucks
both new.. no core charge..
remy is another gm parts "brand" that they sold off but dealers use..

Will r/a ship to Poland?

summit racing has it for 81.90
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ado-337-1020

[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 08-13-2017).]

Yeah, rockauto ships to Poland and is the best deal all around of all the shops I've tried - especially when it comes to shipping costs.

So you're saying I should buy the standard one and not the gear reduction one? That's the point of my thread as I'm not sure replacing mine with a standard starter is the best option when I can just cheaply rebuild it again.

For the one you're suggesting rockauto does $30 shipping while summit does $90 cheapest.

Theoretically, any starter that fits the V6 should also fit the 4-cyl. And us V6 guys have been using gear-reduction starters from newer cars for many years now. Here's a thread with some info: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...110502-2-106702.html

The big question is how to get one of them in Poland. I haven't any idea what cars sold in Europe would have the correct starter.

quote Originally posted by cebix: Yeah, rockauto ships to Poland and is the best deal all around of all the shops I've tried - especially when it comes to shipping costs. So you're saying I should buy the standard one and not the gear reduction one? That's the point of my thread as I'm not sure replacing mine with a standard starter is the best option when I can just cheaply rebuild it again. For the one you're suggesting rockauto does $30 shipping while summit does $90 cheapest.

The 2.5 is in the mail trucks here, they use the standard starter..
even the '92 s-10 with the duke doesn't use a gear reduction starter..
I'm sure someone made them back when the sd4 was used in racing..

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: Theoretically, any starter that fits the V6 should also fit the 4-cyl. And us V6 guys have been using gear-reduction starters from newer cars for many years now. Here's a thread with some info: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...110502-2-106702.html The big question is how to get one of them in Poland. I haven't any idea what cars sold in Europe would have the correct starter.

That's not a problem. I can buy it on rockauto. With shipping and taxes it's not that much more expensive than a similar size starter for some locally sold car.

The question is will it 100% fit my engine without mods? Buying from USA is easy. Returning a bad item not necessarily so.

EDIT: A guy is selling a new starter locally very cheap though I don't know the brand. Here are some photos - does it look OEM to you guys or is it China crap?

http://imgur.com/4ie3HAv
http://imgur.com/Rwxsxa2
http://imgur.com/xkK88O4

[This message has been edited by cebix (edited 08-13-2017).]

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: Theoretically, any starter that fits the V6 should also fit the 4-cyl. And us V6 guys have been using gear-reduction starters from newer cars for many years now. Here's a thread with some info: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...110502-2-106702.html The big question is how to get one of them in Poland. I haven't any idea what cars sold in Europe would have the correct starter.

Sure but why.. we are talking a 4 cyl 8.5 to 1 (yes I know g.m. list it at 9 to 1) but still the motor in the housing is the same as the v8 standard starter it will have no problem turning over this 4 cyl..
Now if he was building a 14 to 1 powerhouse, then maybe.. it is not like any space the mini starter save he could use for anything.. the starter isn't in the way of the exhaust.. or headers/etc

The "why?" part in my opinion would be longer life (bearings not bushings, etc.), less stress on the battery (less current, less shock), faster engine starts.

Question is am I right with these and will it fit 100%?

Gear reduct started use same watts as standard starter... 1.5KW.
Is lighter then OE but doesn't matter to most people.

standard starter on 4 cyl should have a extra bracket to support motor end.
Likely missing, just make out of scrap.
#48 starter motor to a bolt hole on engine block.


V6 starter is the same as 4cyl stater and have problem w/ motor and solenoid too close to the exhaust and need heat shield more.
#133 is heat shield (134 is mount clip). make it out of any thin sheet metal.
Example:

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

quote Originally posted by cebix: The "why?" part in my opinion would be longer life (bearings not bushings, etc.), less stress on the battery (less current, less shock), faster engine starts. Question is am I right with these and will it fit 100%?

I just looked my chevy v8 mini starter (poweraster) doesn't have bearings, it is bushings.
My g.m. vortec 350 v8 factory gear reduction starter is bushings not bearings..
The starter in my '84 is the original car has 95k on it, and lasted 33 years, if it didn't have a motor case bolt fall out it most likely still turn over..

Good luck on your hunt, keep us posted...

quote Originally posted by cebix: That's not a problem. I can buy it on rockauto. With shipping and taxes it's not that much more expensive than a similar size starter for some locally sold car. The question is will it 100% fit my engine without mods? Buying from USA is easy. Returning a bad item not necessarily so. EDIT: A guy is selling a new starter locally very cheap though I don't know the brand. Here are some photos - does it look OEM to you guys or is it China crap? http://imgur.com/4ie3HAv http://imgur.com/Rwxsxa2 http://imgur.com/xkK88O4

The gear reduction starters are physically smaller (and weigh less) than the stock starter. So there should be no interference issues. For your application, you could look for a 1.4 kW starter, which is smaller (and weighs less) than the 1.7 kW starter that I used. The 1.4 kW starters are also cheaper.

Regarding the photos: it's hard to tell, but appears to be the correct configuration. Although, it seems to be an "el cheapo" starter. For reference, here's a link to a new AC Delco starter: http://www.autozone.com/bat...arter/387553_23521_0

Guess I'll go with the standard then, thanks guys. Any advice on new vs remanufactured sold by rockauto? With today's unknowns about new parts sources (China, etc.) is it really best to buy the new AC Delco one? Do I risk a lot buying a reman. one? $78 vs $126 incl. shipping is very tempting.

EDIT: The _new_ ACDELCO 3371111 {#88878281} from rockauto for a '98 Grand Prix reduction gear starter would cost me $125 incl. shipping so there's that too. The shipping on this one is cheaper - I guess because of the weight. I don't really understand the situation with these as remanufactured ones for the Grand Prix are MORE expensive than new ones. Why's that?

[This message has been edited by cebix (edited 08-13-2017).]

quote Originally posted by cebix: Guess I'll go with the standard then, thanks guys. Any advice on new vs remanufactured sold by rockauto? With today's unknowns about new parts sources (China, etc.) is it really best to buy the new AC Delco one? Do I risk a lot buying a reman. one? $78 vs $126 incl. shipping is very tempting. EDIT: The _new_ ACDELCO 3371111 {#88878281} from rockauto for a '98 Grand Prix reduction gear starter would cost me $125 incl. shipping so there's that too. The shipping on this one is cheaper - I guess because of the weight. I don't really understand the situation with these as remanufactured ones for the Grand Prix are MORE expensive than new ones. Why's that?

Do you think the ALL new starter that might have parts made in china and elsewhere..
is any worse than the used /rebuilt unit with new parts installed that are made in the same factory as the ones in that new unit?

As for the g/p g/r starter, was it for the 3.1/3.4 chevy v6 or the 3800 buick v6.
I'd think but could be wrong.. with the amount of engine swaps done by members here of the 3.1/3.4/3800 into these cars if that g/p starter bolted on.. it already be a known item/swap

[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 08-13-2017).]

Actually yeah - why a reman cannot be better than a new one? I think they only reuse the housings which might be of better quality than newly made ones.

I guess the insides (solenoid, brushes, bushings, etc.) will be the same or similar no matter what. So why pay more for a housing? Or am I missing something here and a reman is something different?

I bought this starter for my 88 Duke. Works perfectly.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/p...05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Edit - That's my review at the top of the list.

2nd Edit - If you look at the listed applicatiins, they include the 3800 and the Lumina 3.4.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 08-13-2017).]

Still haven't decided if I should be a standard one or a gear reduction one. Yeah 1,5 kW is 1,5 kW but that's just nominal rated power. Inrush currents will be much lower with the gear reduction system. I think a gear reduction is just a better design altogether and should be lighter on the battery. Though from reading around there seem to be different opinions on this.

Still not sure if the gear reduction one from a '98 Grand Prix 3.8 will fit my '85 duke as no vendor posts dimensions - rockauto is pretty much my only option and unfortunately they don't sell the starters proposed by you guys. DB Electrical also doesn't ship overseas unfortunately.

EDIT: Regarding ACDELCO starters they post some data and they're not quite convincing:

Mounting Flange to End of Case
Mounting Flange to Pinion End at Rest

'85 2.5 starter 3371020: 203 and 17 mm respectively (1.2 kW), 9 teeth
'98 3.8 starter 3371025: 179 and 18 mm respectively (1.4 kW), 11 teeth

Are these slightly different dimensions limiting in any way? A lot of info on the 2.8 but not really for the 2.5 though I understand that the standard starters are the same?

[This message has been edited by cebix (edited 08-15-2017).]

quote Originally posted by cebix: A lot of info on the 2.8 but not really for the 2.5 though I understand that the standard starters are the same?

I've upgraded the starters on both my cars to the SAME smaller gear reduction design.

The GT is the V6 and the Indy is the 4-cylinder (SD4 is same block design as Duke).
The exhaust is close to the solenoid, but I just put some heat shielding over it.

From: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...120111-2-108710.html




------------------
My World of Wheels Winners (Click on links below)

3.4L Supercharged 87 GT and Super Duty 4 Indy #163

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-05-2017).]

So that's one thing cleared, thanks.

But you say in that thread that the gears are identical when the duke starter gear has 9 teeth and the Grand Prix listed by rockauto has 11. Does that change anything or I shouldn't worry about that? The 3800 supercharged 1.7 kW starter also has 11 teeth (ACDELCO 3371111).

EDIT:

Alright, I've read so much now that I think I'll risk it and buy the DELCO 3371025 starter (gear reduction with 11 teeth 1.5 kW). Thanks everyone! Will post update in 2-3 weeks when it arrives to let you know if it fits for future reference.

[This message has been edited by cebix (edited 08-15-2017).]

Plus the "mini" gear reduction starters are lighter.

quote Originally posted by cebix: Are there any gear reduction starters readily available for the '85 2.5 automatic?

For sure. Anyone not getting a gear reduction unit when it comes time to replace their Fiero starter is crazy.

quote Originally posted by Patrick in This thread: A year or so ago I went to the wreckers to buy two newer light-weight starters... one for my 2.8 Formula and one for my 2.5 '84. I knew there were actually two different sizes of these newer starters depending on the amperage. I found one of each, one noticeably larger than the other, although both were considerably smaller than the original starters on our Fieros. Turned out that one of the starters was faulty (so I returned it for a credit), but I used the remaining one on my '84 as its starter was toast. The replacement starter works very well. So why didn't I pick up another newer starter to replace the faulty one that I took back? Because the current starter on my Formula works perfectly, and I could see it wasn't worth replacing it for a very minor reduction in weight. However, if and when that starter packs it in, it is a no-brainer to replace it with a newer lighter-weight version. [EDIT] I re-found this thread HERE that has some good info in it, including weights. I suspect the smaller of the two starters that I had picked up weighed just over 6 lbs.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-15-2017).]

quote Originally posted by Patrick: For sure. Anyone not getting a gear reduction unit when it comes time to replace their Fiero starter is crazy.

Part of the Fiero's charm comes from its age... so to update the starter means to lose some of its appeal.

My friend has a gear reduction starter on his 88 2.5 automatic.

I have a gear reduction starter on my V6 (weight savings). But I still have the original, in case I change my mind and succumb to a craving for the 1980s.

The starter is like a set of wheels; easily R&Red. These parts are to the Fiero as clothes and makeup are to a person.

quote Originally posted by cebix: So that's one thing cleared, thanks. But you say in that thread that the gears are identical when the duke starter gear has 9 teeth and the Grand Prix listed by rockauto has 11. Does that change anything or I shouldn't worry about that? The 3800 supercharged 1.7 kW starter also has 11 teeth (ACDELCO 3371111). EDIT: Alright, I've read so much now that I think I'll risk it and buy the DELCO 3371025 starter (gear reduction with 11 teeth 1.5 kW). Thanks everyone! Will post update in 2-3 weeks when it arrives to let you know if it fits for future reference.

The gear reduction starter that I linked, above, has 11 teeth. Works perfectly on my Duke, even though the original starter had 9 teeth.
If you didn't check the link, the price is $58.75. How much is the Delco unit?

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 08-15-2017).]

The smaller size, to some degree moves the starter away from the heat source, so it should stay cooler, even without shielding.

Also keep in mind some of the gear reduction starters use a different electrical connector for the solenoid so you will have to get the connector from the donor car to splice to the fiero.

The starter from a 2004 Pontiac Grand Am 3400 v6 is a direct bolt on and uses the fiero style stud electrical connector.

[This message has been edited by 88cryan (edited 08-16-2017).]

quote Originally posted by 88cryan: Also keep in mind some of the gear reduction starters use a different electrical connector for the solenoid so you will have to get the connector from the donor car to splice to the fiero.

Why bother? When I strolled through the wrecking yard, there were plenty to choose from that didn't require any wiring mods.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: The gear reduction starter that I linked, above, has 11 teeth. Works perfectly on my Duke, even though the original starter had 9 teeth. If you didn't check the link, the price is $58.75. How much is the Delco unit?

The Delco one was $110.79

I used the gear reduction on my 2.5 several years ago.
Pretty sure I just grabbed one for a 3400 V6 Grand Am GT application from the late 90s or early 00s.

Finally installed it. It measured all around identically to my original starter - mounting points, shaft, teeth, etc. Works like a charm, no shims used, no nothing. Though the rockauto order said it was 11 teeth, it came with 9. So for future reference - this starter fits the 2.5.

quote Originally posted by cebix: So for future reference - this starter fits the 2.5.

We knew it would.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: We knew it would.

So did mine, for $50 less.
But I'm happy that your starter of choice worked out for you.

I just picked up a starter for the grand prix today and mine also has 9 teeth and not 11 as stated. The other thing is it's suppose to be a brand new duralast starter from AutoZone but has Delco Remy stamped on it and on the solenoid. Has a sticker slapped on the side with the correct part # but the original serial # is ground off. My concern is if I got the starter I paid for. Should be the 1.7kwh but how do I know that's what I got?

quote Originally posted by fierofinder: My concern is if I got the starter I paid for. Should be the 1.7kwh but how do I know that's what I got?

Lots of info/images in This thread.

Patrick, the pictures on that thread don't show up, but the description doesn't sound like the one I got. I didn't have to change any wires, they swapped out perfect. I did call autozone and they assured me it s the correct starter. I did find a printout included in the box as well that talked about fitment. So I went ahead and installed it and it works great. Went in just like the old one minus shim. So I'm trusting autozone that its the 1.7kW that I paid for.

quote Originally posted by fierofinder: Patrick, the pictures on that thread don't show up...

There are plenty of pictures if you scroll down a bit.

FWIW, I just put in a Bosch unit that weighs 6.5 lbs.

I had to buy a shim kit and add 2 x 1/16 shims PLUS the original shim to get it to work. Car only has 50K miles so I don't think it's a worn flywheel.

It works great. Turns the engine over much faster.