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3800 build parts list by Flux
Started on: 01-17-2013 01:36 AM
Replies: 100 (4869 views)
Last post by: Jacksonator on 05-06-2014 09:00 AM
Flux
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Report this Post01-17-2013 01:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FluxSend a Private Message to FluxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
the 2.8 just isn't doing it for me. time to upgrade. I've done my fair portion of surfing the forum looking at other peoples build thread; it's time to start my own adventure.

so...

3800SC engine - $600 - $1000 ? - junkyard/private seller? - using current 4 speed transmission
custom mounts - ??? - what mounts do I need, where do I buy them? easiest route?
AC Delete - ???
Power steering delete - ???
no cruise control - ???
new clutch - 300?
custom flywheel - ??? from a camaro?
wiring harness - ~600?
fuel pump ~120
exhaust ~??
custom thermo housing ~??

What am I missing? What else do I need to know? I'm ready to start gathering parts. input and advice extremely appreciated
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Stainless1911
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Report this Post01-17-2013 01:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Stainless1911Click Here to Email Stainless1911Send a Private Message to Stainless1911Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Somebody needs to answer this question, make it a sticky, or better, a how to, and be done with it.
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Flux
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Report this Post01-17-2013 02:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FluxSend a Private Message to FluxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
yeah, I realize i'm basically reposting what people have already written 1000 times... sorry.
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Stainless1911
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Report this Post01-17-2013 02:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Stainless1911Click Here to Email Stainless1911Send a Private Message to Stainless1911Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Flux:

yeah, I realize i'm basically reposting what people have already written 1000 times... sorry.


Dont apologize, Im serious. A definative instructional (with video plz) really needs to be done, and stickied.

[This message has been edited by Stainless1911 (edited 01-17-2013).]

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FIEROFLYER
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Report this Post01-17-2013 09:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Parts, most can be made at home with a decent mig welder that will cost less to buy then the parts from most vendors.
Mounts many on here sell them or again make your own. I sell mounts that work either with the stock rubber or Rodneys poly, the engine mount costs $60 and in the case of a manual Fiero tranny swap you can reuse the Fiero tranny mounts.
A/C delete is not needed as well as a power steering delete what I do is make up a simple idler pulley when needed that bolts to the power steering mounting holes and for low mount alternators I make this idler into the low mount alt bracket for $65.
Cruise does not matter if you use or not for the swap, a good clutch I prefer the SPEC III or III+ but have also used clutchnet and bully clutches.
Flywheel is harder to come by a few places sell them already machined but either do not follow through with shipping (FOY) or take a long time like west coast Fieros or find a machine shop willing and able to turn and balance one.
Wiring can also be done at home by your self or buy one from some one like me for $400 which in my case comes with a free matching programed PCM.
Fuel pump the walbro 255lph high pressure works quite well but is loud or I quite often use the delco replacement pump for a turbo cyclone truck.
Exhaust is best made right in the engine bay attached to the engine to fit properly and I prefer the magnaflow muffler part number 12158 for this.
Thermostat housing you can either use the stock 3800 or go with a modded Fiero V6 one that can also be made at home or when supplied with a core I make them up for $60.
Most of the parts I sell are pretty low in cost to barely cover my expenses of making them and shipping them out.
Again and I stress this any one with enough skills to remove the Fiero engine from the car is capable of doing this swap with just a few proper tools, a good mig and lots of time to do it.
For those doing their own harnesses I can usually get them wiring diagrams at no cost and always willing to answer any questions asked. Dan

------------------


Over 10 years of full 3800 swaps and harnesses and still going.

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fieroaddicted
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Report this Post01-17-2013 09:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroaddictedClick Here to Email fieroaddictedSend a Private Message to fieroaddictedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
From what I have gathered concerning the flywheel, it is better to go to the salvage yard and purchase a used one from a 3800 camaro and have it machined to .840". The new aftermarket ones can be poor in quality.
troy
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Flux
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Report this Post01-31-2013 03:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FluxSend a Private Message to FluxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
2004 pontiac grand prix gtp engine




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qwikgta
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Report this Post01-31-2013 03:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Flux:

2004 pontiac grand prix gtp engine






if you go with a SIII engine, you have additional expense to make it run as a SII. Harness, ECM, TB, TB adapter, to name a few.

Rob

------------------


88 Coupe, CJB T-TOP, LS376 and a GT clip
88 GT, SIII 3800NA/Auto swap underway
LS Build Thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/083204.html
LS on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAH9yjw6XR0
3800 build thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/089035.html

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jake88gt
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Report this Post01-31-2013 03:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jake88gtClick Here to Email jake88gtSend a Private Message to jake88gtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I like that idea of a video or picture guide. Im getting my parts soon hopfully so maybe i could do one for a l67 auto swap.
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Report this Post01-31-2013 04:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Does the 04 GTP engine stamp on the block say series II or III as I have seen them with either. Dan
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Flux
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Report this Post01-31-2013 05:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FluxSend a Private Message to FluxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FIEROFLYER:

Does the 04 GTP engine stamp on the block say series II or III as I have seen them with either. Dan



ill take a look at it when i have a chance to get a good look at it. the cover said series III however.
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Report this Post01-31-2013 05:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here is a list I made a while back, I didnt look it over, some theings may be missing or Obsolete........

3800 swap parts list

Motor Mounts
Wiring Harnesses (both Fiero and Motor)
Reprogrammed PCM
Proper Oil filter adapter or filter relocation kit
Two left Fiero GM Manual axles and 4T65E-HD right inner tripot (for auto trans swap)
Transmission cooler and lines (for auto swap if Fiero was Manual)
Clutch/Pressure plate and T/O bearing (for manual swap)
Auto shifter and cable (for auto swap if Fiero was Manual)
Fuel pump EP376 now using EP381
Fiero Oil pressure sender
Air intake coupler and tube/filter ??
Muffler/Exhaust/Tailpipes
Spark plugs/wires
Fluids
Belts
Ribbed tesioner pulley
A/C delete pulley, or Fiero to 3800 A/C hoses if retaining A/C
In Line coolant fill point, or parts to “T” off heater lines
Coolant hoses
5 pole relay (if switching from manual to auto for TCC circuit)
4’ each 5/16 and 3/8 fuel injection hose
Fuel injection clamps
8’ heater hose
Speedo buffer circuit parts (4T65E-HD only)


Modifications/Fabrication

Modify throttle bracket on V6 Fiero, L4 works as is
Build A/C delete pulley bracket if removing A/C
Modify/reroute vacuum lines, remove BBV lock closed
EGR blockoff/removal
Modify heater hose connections
Trans cooler lines/cooler building and mounting on manual to auto swap
Build pass side axle for auto
Build speedo buffer for auto

[This message has been edited by Mike Gonzalez (edited 01-31-2013).]

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2002z28ssconv
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Report this Post01-31-2013 05:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2002z28ssconvClick Here to visit 2002z28ssconv's HomePageSend a Private Message to 2002z28ssconvEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That engine is definitely a series 3.
I'll trade you a series 2 for it?
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post01-31-2013 06:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2002z28ssconv:

That engine is definitely a series 3.
I'll trade you a series 2 for it?


A Series III with the added 2000 N* TB, plate adapter and in-line LS1 (or LQ4) MAF) ,a near tank located FPR, the 04 O2 sensor, a new PCM, costs about $400 more than a Series II swap. Then figure in 50 hours of PCM tuning adjustments just to get the fueling to work right with the new MAF table and air flow characteristics.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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nosrac
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Report this Post01-31-2013 06:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

Then figure in 50 hours of PCM tuning adjustments just to get the fueling to work right with the new MAF table and air flow characteristics.



Lol.... try 5 seconds.

Right click MAF -> import from File -> select LQ4 MAF -> save
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Report this Post01-31-2013 07:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2002z28ssconvClick Here to visit 2002z28ssconv's HomePageSend a Private Message to 2002z28ssconvEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
A Series III with the added 2000 N* TB, plate adapter and in-line LS1 (or LQ4) MAF) ,a near tank located FPR, the 04 O2 sensor, a new PCM, costs about $400 more than a Series II swap. Then figure in 50 hours of PCM tuning adjustments just to get the fueling to work right with the new MAF table and air flow characteristics.


I just want the L32 block anyway
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FIEROFLYER
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Report this Post01-31-2013 09:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Agreed programming in the differences to run a series III with a series II PCM and cable throttle body only takes a few minutes at most. Dan
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Flux
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Report this Post02-01-2013 02:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FluxSend a Private Message to FluxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i'll most likely end up buying a programmed PCM and wiring harness from you anyways dan, lol
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Report this Post02-01-2013 10:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Flux:

i'll most likely end up buying a programmed PCM and wiring harness from you anyways dan, lol


No problem I already have one made up for the series III engine using a Northstar throttle body and LQ4 MAF and a series II PCM. Dan
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Report this Post02-01-2013 05:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FluxSend a Private Message to FluxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez:

Here is a list I made a while back, I didnt look it over, some theings may be missing or Obsolete........

3800 swap parts list

Motor Mounts
Wiring Harnesses (both Fiero and Motor)
Reprogrammed PCM
Proper Oil filter adapter or filter relocation kit
Two left Fiero GM Manual axles and 4T65E-HD right inner tripot (for auto trans swap)
Transmission cooler and lines (for auto swap if Fiero was Manual)
Clutch/Pressure plate and T/O bearing (for manual swap)
Auto shifter and cable (for auto swap if Fiero was Manual)
Fuel pump EP376 now using EP381
Fiero Oil pressure sender
Air intake coupler and tube/filter ??
Muffler/Exhaust/Tailpipes
Spark plugs/wires
Fluids
Belts
Ribbed tesioner pulley
A/C delete pulley, or Fiero to 3800 A/C hoses if retaining A/C
In Line coolant fill point, or parts to “T” off heater lines
Coolant hoses
5 pole relay (if switching from manual to auto for TCC circuit)
4’ each 5/16 and 3/8 fuel injection hose
Fuel injection clamps
8’ heater hose
Speedo buffer circuit parts (4T65E-HD only)


Modifications/Fabrication

Modify throttle bracket on V6 Fiero, L4 works as is
Build A/C delete pulley bracket if removing A/C
Modify/reroute vacuum lines, remove BBV lock closed
EGR blockoff/removal
Modify heater hose connections
Trans cooler lines/cooler building and mounting on manual to auto swap
Build pass side axle for auto
Build speedo buffer for auto



this is a good list aswell thanks - apart from the automatic conversion parts

i hear that using the wrong flywheel bolts or under/overtightening them will lead to them shearing off and breaking. is this true? could I just buy a flywheel for a Camaro from a parts store and have it machined down?
what about 'balancing' the flywheel -

this series iii will also need a fuel pressure regulator because it's a different fuel rail? or is that right? where do i get one of those? i'm trying to keep this swap within my budget of 2ish grand minus the engine. i'd like to get all the necessary parts and get the engine on a spare cradle so I can get the car back on the road asap.
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FFIEROFRED
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Report this Post02-01-2013 06:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FFIEROFREDClick Here to Email FFIEROFREDSend a Private Message to FFIEROFREDEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Use a "light" flywheel. You will need it with that dump truck 1st gear in the fiero trans.
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Report this Post02-01-2013 06:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FFIEROFRED:

Use a "light" flywheel. You will need it with that dump truck 1st gear in the fiero trans.


LOL, you use first ? I dont care what flywheel I have used, first becomes useless on a 5speed !

You will want to get new flywhhel bolts, but I cant remember the size/grade of them right now. Use loctite on them.....Im sure someone will let you know the size.

You can just get a Camaro flywheel and have it faced dowd, hopefully you have a shop that can balance match it to your flexplate. Or order one ready to go from one of the vendors here.

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Report this Post02-03-2013 01:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FluxSend a Private Message to FluxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
bought an engine hoist today so I can move this beast around and remove the engine/cradle with poly bushing from my GT parts car..... wondering will i have time to do this swap in between highschool and work lol. once I get the engine in the garage tomorrow i'll start hunting for parts and updating this thread
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Report this Post02-03-2013 04:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Corpsmen EdClick Here to visit Corpsmen Ed's HomePageClick Here to Email Corpsmen EdSend a Private Message to Corpsmen EdEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'll be keeping a close eye on this thread, as I am fixing to start my swap soon. Keep up the good work, and make sure to post lots of pics.
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Report this Post02-03-2013 10:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Corpsmen Ed:

... I am fixing to start my swap...


LOL..

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Report this Post02-03-2013 11:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FluxSend a Private Message to FluxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
finally got this bastard into the garage and dropped the kframe today


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Report this Post02-04-2013 09:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
They do have a bit of weight to them especially the tranny when you start moving them around.
Getting a flywheel already machined and balanced is getting harder all the time as there is not many places out there doing it and a lot of machine shops either do not want to turn one down or can not balance it after. At least that is what I have found here in Ontario Canada.
In the past I had good luck getting machined and balanced flywheels from west coast Fieros but they were slow getting them out to me. Dan
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Report this Post02-04-2013 09:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I wonder if LSC makes them, or would make them ? I just got thier 4.9 swap flywheel and its really nice.
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Report this Post02-11-2013 01:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FluxSend a Private Message to FluxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
transmission is off
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Report this Post02-14-2013 02:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FluxSend a Private Message to FluxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
possibly getting an F40 transmission as I was offered one locally.... what am i getting into lol..
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Report this Post02-14-2013 08:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A little extra work but still some thing that can be done with the right parts. I did one last summer and have one booked in for later this spring. I can send you all the needed info if you like. Dan

------------------


Over 30 years wiring experience between cars and trade as an avionics tech.
Over 25 years experience building and modifying cars.
Over 10 years of full Fiero engine swaps and harnesses building and still going.

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Flux
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Report this Post02-27-2013 09:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FluxSend a Private Message to FluxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
UPDATE: ordered my wiring harness and mounts from fieroflyer tonight. I am considering buying 3800 camaro pacesetter headers to eliminate cross over issue with the 4 speed muncie. 3.5 pulley and supporting mods aswell.
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Report this Post02-27-2013 10:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FluxSend a Private Message to FluxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
cool fuel rail - however dan is sending a FPR for my set up which will eliminate the returnless fuel delivery problem on S3 engines.
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Report this Post02-28-2013 06:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DefEddieClick Here to Email DefEddieSend a Private Message to DefEddieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Flux:

transmission is off


That pic seriously made do a quick glance for a pet dick.
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Flux
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Report this Post02-28-2013 10:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FluxSend a Private Message to FluxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
lol! ya it looks odd I didn't take that photo
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Report this Post03-01-2013 12:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DefEddieClick Here to Email DefEddieSend a Private Message to DefEddieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That was a reference to Haus of Guru.
His wife always flips off the camera,and in his shop pics there is always a pet dick in the picture.
Like a "where's waldo" moment except you weren't looking for waldo,and it's a dick.
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Report this Post03-11-2013 04:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FluxSend a Private Message to FluxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
bumpity bump... i got a box on my front doorstep today. The package from FIEROFLYER included the wiring harness, N* throttle, LQ4 MAF, fuel pressure regulator and throttle bracket. Still yet to get the rest of my parts; PCM, idler pulley, engine mounts, etc. Hopefully they are on their way.
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Report this Post03-11-2013 07:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rotarycraigClick Here to Email rotarycraigSend a Private Message to rotarycraigEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
great thread!!
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Report this Post03-12-2013 01:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FluxSend a Private Message to FluxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
harness...



V8 N* TB



LQ4 MAF

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fuel pressure regulator


waiting for dan to get back to me on the rest of the parts. that's all for now
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