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Time to upgrade to the 3800sc. by Tweeder
Started on: 08-22-2012 12:34 AM
Replies: 203 (6449 views)
Last post by: Tweeder on 08-28-2013 12:43 AM
Tweeder
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Bump.

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86 GT Convertable 3800sc

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phonedawgz
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You have an 86 right? What do you have below C500?

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Report this Post05-24-2013 02:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

You have an 86 right? What do you have below C500?


Yep and absolutely nothing but those two wires. I just went and looked at the insurance papers and it's not a gt but a se with a gt front?

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Report this Post05-24-2013 10:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So you need to add it. All it does is provide a place to connect these power feeds.

One is feed from the battery.

The two that are there go forward, one to the fuse box, one to the headlights.

In this pic the one with the disconnect provides power to the PCM (Orange unswitched)

The wire to the alternator normally runs from this post to the alternator.

All wires running from here should have a fusible link on them.

The pigtail that comes from the battery + post doesn't need a fusible link however.

If you move your battery to up front things change.

If you have the battery up front, then most run a wire FROM the + battery cable to this power distribution post. That cable should have a fusible link on the starter end.
You can also move the alternator wire to run directly down to the + battery cable on the starter. Again you should have a fusible link on the starter end of the alternator cable. I would however keep the +12v orange feed wire to the PCM, the OBD2 connector and the orange wire to the alternator plug (if you have it) up by the power distribution post to keep the fuse from being down by the starter.

I would think you could find one of these in a junk yard.

Also note - The two posts are not electrically connected in the plastic base. GM had one wire with a eyelet that ran between the posts. If you don't reuse that eyelet, either add a bare wire between the two, or just put all the wires on the same post.
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Report this Post05-24-2013 11:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

So you need to add it. All it does is provide a place to connect these power feeds.

One is feed from the battery.

The two that are there go forward, one to the fuse box, one to the headlights.

In this pic the one with the disconnect provides power to the PCM (Orange unswitched)

The wire to the alternator normally runs from this post to the alternator.

All wires running from here should have a fusible link on them.

The pigtail that comes from the battery + post doesn't need a fusible link however.

If you move your battery to up front things change.

If you have the battery up front, then most run a wire FROM the + battery cable to this power distribution post. That cable should have a fusible link on the starter end.
You can also move the alternator wire to run directly down to the + battery cable on the starter. Again you should have a fusible link on the starter end of the alternator cable. I would however keep the +12v orange feed wire to the PCM, the OBD2 connector and the orange wire to the alternator plug (if you have it) up by the power distribution post to keep the fuse from being down by the starter.

I would think you could find one of these in a junk yard.

Also note - The two posts are not electrically connected in the plastic base. GM had one wire with a eyelet that ran between the posts. If you don't reuse that eyelet, either add a bare wire between the two, or just put all the wires on the same post.


I will be putting the battery up in the front. We don't have any fieros in the junkyard, I will check with napa to see if they have anything like that. The car was previously running with it like that when it had the n/a 3800 in there, I didn't pay attention to where those wires went though. I know I tried napa before for fuseable links and they couldn't get any? What about using a fuse in a holder like you suggested with th alternator wire?


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86 GT Convertable 3800sc

[This message has been edited by Tweeder (edited 05-24-2013).]

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Report this Post05-27-2013 12:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
After looking at the extra work and additional cost I decided to put the battery in the passenger side trunk. I got a marine battery box and mounted it up on the hump thingy.

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Report this Post06-01-2013 12:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

So you need to add it. All it does is provide a place to connect these power feeds.

One is feed from the battery.

The two that are there go forward, one to the fuse box, one to the headlights.

In this pic the one with the disconnect provides power to the PCM (Orange unswitched)

The wire to the alternator normally runs from this post to the alternator.

All wires running from here should have a fusible link on them.

The pigtail that comes from the battery + post doesn't need a fusible link however.

If you move your battery to up front things change.

If you have the battery up front, then most run a wire FROM the + battery cable to this power distribution post. That cable should have a fusible link on the starter end.
You can also move the alternator wire to run directly down to the + battery cable on the starter. Again you should have a fusible link on the starter end of the alternator cable. I would however keep the +12v orange feed wire to the PCM, the OBD2 connector and the orange wire to the alternator plug (if you have it) up by the power distribution post to keep the fuse from being down by the starter.

I would think you could find one of these in a junk yard.

Also note - The two posts are not electrically connected in the plastic base. GM had one wire with a eyelet that ran between the posts. If you don't reuse that eyelet, either add a bare wire between the two, or just put all the wires on the same post.


I can't get one at the parts store and there's nothing at the wreckers, for hose two red wires, can I just hook them directly to where they go? If so where do they go?

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phonedawgz
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$15 paypal to gofast@reddevilriver.com and I'll mail you one.

Otherwise all you need to do is connect the wires and keep them from shorting to ground. You could bolt them together and somehow keep it from shorting out.
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Report this Post06-01-2013 11:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

$15 paypal to gofast@reddevilriver.com and I'll mail you one.

Otherwise all you need to do is connect the wires and keep them from shorting to ground. You could bolt them together and somehow keep it from shorting out.


Looking at the wires, the po added about 6" of wire and I'm not sure where they went after that as I cut them from where ever. I don't see any signs of them being together, it's puzzling. Oh well, what I will do is join them together add the orange wire from the alternator and heat shrink it to seal it.

Edit: after looking at the pics, since the posts are not connected, what is the point of the connector. Why didn't the factory have the two red wires joined together. I see the other part for the battery/alt/ECM/and reset having a spot to tie them all together. But with my set up, I don't have the reset. Also the wire from the ECM, do I have that Gone to somewhere else?
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86 GT Convertable 3800sc

[This message has been edited by Tweeder (edited 06-01-2013).]

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Bump.

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Bump.

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quote
Originally posted by Tweeder:


Edit: after looking at the pics, since the posts are not connected, what is the point of the connector. Why didn't the factory have the two red wires joined together.


It would make the factory harness harder to make to try to put both fusible link wires into the same ring terminal. There would be no advantage to have both wires connected to the same ring terminal. Connecting both wires to the same ring terminal would make troubleshooting in the future more difficult.

 
quote
I see the other part for the battery/alt/ECM/and reset having a spot to tie them all together. But with my set up, I don't have the reset. Also the wire from the ECM, do I have that Gone to somewhere else?


If your battery is still in the stock location, then a wire from the positive battery terminal needs to connect to those wires to supply the circuits voltage. The PCM also needs +12v unswitched. That wire should be fused. Usually the alternator is looking for a battery sense wire. That wire should be fused. The alternator also needs to have it's output connected to the battery somehow. The wire to the alternator needs to have a fusible link on it that is the proper size compared to the alternator wire.

If your battery is located elsewhere, these circuits still need to be supplied power. Usually the battery is connected to the starter first, and then a cable with a fusible link runs up to the power distribution posts.
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Report this Post06-07-2013 05:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For those two red wires that are fuseable linked, I take it that one has power and the other one that's joined to it; takes power from it?

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phonedawgz
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Power comes from the wire marked Battery.

The one each of the top left one to the fuse box/switch the second to the headlights.

One is from the alternator to recharge the battery.

The one with the disconnect in it goes to the unswitched power input of the ECM.
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Report this Post06-07-2013 10:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:



Power comes from the wire marked Battery.

The one each of the top left one to the fuse box/switch the second to the headlights.

One is from the alternator to recharge the battery.

The one with the disconnect in it goes to the unswitched power input of the ECM.


I looked at that pic before and was confused when you said they were not connected. All I see for the top post is the two red wires. The battery looks to power the bottom post. Unless i misunderstood and both posts are connected and the battery powers both posts?


Edit ...... I see the blue answer in the center of the pic.
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86 GT Convertable 3800sc

[This message has been edited by Tweeder (edited 06-08-2013).]

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phonedawgz
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And yeah I see both body wires are on the same lug. I did think they were on separate. I am not sure if it is just different years that are on different lugs or I am just mistaken.

I have been wrong before. I will be wrong again.
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Report this Post06-19-2013 08:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Heres the new fuel pump.

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Report this Post07-08-2013 01:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
After a couple weeks spent scrapping out the truck it's time to get back to the car. That and I now am under a time crunch to get it driving as I just got scheduled for shoulder surgery at the end of August. I got the pump in and the tank painted and was about to put it back when I noticed the hoses in bad shape so I need to replace them on Monday. I also got the passenger cv shaft put together and hopefully it's the right length. I ran into a head scratcher putting I together though. The new shaft is from an 88, I couldn't use the outer joint I had fromthe other shaft as it was smaller? So I used the one that came with it and put the 4t65e hd tripot on that. They look different on the ends also, the 88 one has a lip. I'll have to take a pic.

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Report this Post07-08-2013 11:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


This is from the 88, the origional one never had the outer ring

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86 GT Convertable 3800sc

[This message has been edited by Tweeder (edited 07-08-2013).]

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Report this Post07-09-2013 12:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is when I did mine. The 4T65E rollers are the same as the HD ones.
I put mine together in this thread.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...130314-2-118531.html


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Project Genisis Lo Budget 3800SC swap

88 Coupe under construction

[This message has been edited by hercimer01 (edited 07-09-2013).]

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Report this Post07-09-2013 01:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have no problem with th inner tripots. I'm just confused as to why the outers are different inside diameters. I less the one that I have from the th125 setup isn't a fiero outer but something that shares the same outer races?

 
quote
Originally posted by hercimer01:

This is when I did mine. The 4T65E rollers are the same as the HD ones.
I put mine together in this thread.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...130314-2-118531.html



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Report this Post07-13-2013 07:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This where I get confused and I think alot of people too.

I'm pretty sure the auto axle shafts are smaller than the manual shafts.

I thought that I had read people were using auto axles to use with the GTP tripots. If one uses the auto axles, one would have to use auto outers.
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Report this Post07-13-2013 08:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ahhh I see, that makes sense. I wonder what the length of the auto shafts are end to end no pots on?

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86 GT Convertable 3800sc

[This message has been edited by Tweeder (edited 07-13-2013).]

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Report this Post07-14-2013 02:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Getting around to buttoning up the cooing system, which is the supply on the alternator bracket? Also for the 4t65e hd tranny, there are two sizes of cooler line connections. I believe the lower is a 14m(one closes to the pan) what is the upper one, a 16?

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86 GT Convertable 3800sc

[This message has been edited by Tweeder (edited 07-15-2013).]

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Report this Post07-15-2013 12:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bump.

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Report this Post07-16-2013 01:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Still need the info for above.

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Bump.

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Report this Post07-19-2013 01:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Anyone?

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Report this Post07-20-2013 12:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think I found the answer. The lower alternator tube is the inlet that comes from the insulated tube running along the frame rail. And for the tranny, the sizes are 1/4-18 pipe and 3/8-18 pipe.

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Report this Post07-20-2013 03:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Slow6Click Here to Email Slow6Send a Private Message to Slow6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tweeder:

Anyone have info on the name or part number of the coolant pieces, still looking for them. Also where are the IAC and coolant temp sensors located? I have theses two harnesses and plugs but can't find where they go.



What specifically do you need to know about the coolant pieces just the name and part nunber? I have a 97 GTP sitting in the garage. I can snap some pictures or relay information if you need it. Let me know.
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Report this Post07-20-2013 03:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Slow6:


What specifically do you need to know about the coolant pieces just the name and part nunber? I have a 97 GTP sitting in the garage. I can snap some pictures or relay information if you need it. Let me know.


I just want to make sure I have the heater core tubes in the correct position. I have it hooked up with the insulated tube on the passenger side going to the lower of the two fittings on the alternator bracket.

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Report this Post07-21-2013 07:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Now for the next part. I've gotten rid of the egr blocked off the boost bypass solenioid and the canister solenoid thingy. Where all do my vacuum lines go? I was thinking of takin that larger line of the tripple thingy near the throttle body and going to the brake booster thingy. What about the fuel pressure regulator on the fuel line and the nipple under the supercharger snout in the lower intake as well as the map? I assume that I just start with the passenger under snout, map, fuel pressure and end at the three prog thingy on top near the throttle body and cap off the other little nipple or do i make a loop?

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86 GT Convertable 3800sc

[This message has been edited by Tweeder (edited 07-21-2013).]

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Report this Post07-27-2013 02:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tweeder:

Now for the next part. I've gotten rid of the egr blocked off the boost bypass solenioid and the canister solenoid thingy. Where all do my vacuum lines go? I was thinking of takin that larger line of the tripple thingy near the throttle body and going to the brake booster thingy. What about the fuel pressure regulator on the fuel line and the nipple under the supercharger snout in the lower intake as well as the map? I assume that I just start with the passenger under snout, map, fuel pressure and end at the three prog thingy on top near the throttle body and cap off the other little nipple or do i make a loop?


Still need confirmation on the above I of. I looked into the returnless file system and I can't seem to figure it out, I was looking at darths setup. Why can't I just block that line completely off? Or why can't a T be put in and connect it to the line that goes back to the tank, which ever line that is.

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quote
Originally posted by Tweeder:


Still need confirmation on the above I of. I looked into the returnless file system and I can't seem to figure it out, I was looking at darths setup. Why can't I just block that line completely off? Or why can't a T be put in and connect it to the line that goes back to the tank, which ever line that is.



I made a remote FPR like this.

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86 Fiero GT 4spd - (pending L67 swap: VS cam, GenV) Build Progress eta: 8/13
98 GTP - Some mods

[This message has been edited by sco77 (edited 07-27-2013).]

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Report this Post07-27-2013 05:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm sorry but that pic doesn't explain much to me as I know nothing about how that system works. I guess y'all will have to learn me a bit. Why are there three lines coming from the top of the tank? I take it ones for supply, return, but what's the last one thats going to a hardline with what looks like a vacuum fitting? That might be where I'm getting confused and which line is which from the tank?

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86 GT Convertable 3800sc

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sco77
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Report this Post07-27-2013 06:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sco77Click Here to Email sco77Send a Private Message to sco77Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tweeder:

I'm sorry but that pic doesn't explain much to me as I know nothing about how that system works. I guess y'all will have to learn me a bit. Why are there three lines coming from the top of the tank? I take it ones for supply, return, but what's the last one thats going to a hardline with what looks like a vacuum fitting? That might be where I'm getting confused and which line is which from the tank?



The 3rd line that looks like a vacuum line is the tank vent that goes to EVAP.

In my setup I cut the FPR part of a stock 3800 fuel rail, fuel feeder from a tank tee's off to the fuel pressure regulator before going to fuel rail, excess fuel pressure bleeds off through the T, through the FPR and out the line from the FPR back to the fuel return hose (not connected in that picture).

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86 Fiero GT 4spd - (pending L67 swap: VS cam, GenV) Build Progress eta: 8/13
98 GTP - Some mods

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Tweeder
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Report this Post07-27-2013 06:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sco77:


The 3rd line that looks like a vacuum line is the tank vent that goes to EVAP.

In my setup I cut the FPR part of a stock 3800 fuel rail, fuel feeder from a tank tee's off to the fuel pressure regulator before going to fuel rail, excess fuel pressure bleeds off through the T, through the FPR and out the line from the FPR back to the fuel return hose (not connected in that picture).




Ok I guess I don't need to worry about the bypass as I already have the two lines set up. For that vent line to the evap, I don't have that so where should I place that instead?

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86 GT Convertable 3800sc

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Report this Post07-27-2013 07:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sco77Click Here to Email sco77Send a Private Message to sco77Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tweeder:


Ok I guess I don't need to worry about the bypass as I already have the two lines set up. For that vent line to the evap, I don't have that so where should I place that instead?



I don't have a EVAP either, so I extended a hose to the driver side wheel well and put a small breather filter on it.. 90% of people dont recommend deleting EVAP though because of fuel odor and I guess your gas would also evaporate faster without a solenoid mechanism to close of the vent when it doesn't need purging. Might not be wise to do on a daily driver.

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86 Fiero GT 4spd - (pending L67 swap: VS cam, GenV) Build Progress eta: 8/13
98 GTP - Some mods

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Report this Post07-27-2013 10:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sco77:


I don't have a EVAP either, so I extended a hose to the driver side wheel well and put a small breather filter on it.. 90% of people dont recommend deleting EVAP though because of fuel odor and I guess your gas would also evaporate faster without a solenoid mechanism to close of the vent when it doesn't need purging. Might not be wise to do on a daily driver.




ok, i see thanks for the food for thought.

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86 GT Convertable 3800sc

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Report this Post07-27-2013 11:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well gettin closer, I hit the key and I could hear the fuel pump prime but got nothing at the starter. So I went underneith and shorted the starter and theres power as it cranked over but I don't have the coil pack in, plug wires, fuel lines or the vacuum hooked up yet. I just wanted to see if there was power to what. Any idear as to what to look for? I believe I have all grounds except the battery to the body, waiting on a strap but don't think that shoud matter if at all it might be slow to turn over.

EDIT: I just remembered something. The car originally was a standard an the po converted it to an auto, I remember at the c500 the purple wire was cut and can't remember if it was connected to something else? I think my problem lies there.

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86 GT Convertable 3800sc

[This message has been edited by Tweeder (edited 07-28-2013).]

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