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pr0j3c1 turbo 3800 71k mile guru wheelie machine by Justinbart
Started on: 01-13-2013 02:55 PM
Replies: 505 (19282 views)
Last post by: Justinbart on 02-21-2015 08:58 AM
nosrac
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Report this Post04-13-2013 09:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Justinbart:


8mph is A LOT! Would be sweet if it did it.



The car should be @130+ traps.
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Report this Post04-13-2013 09:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nosrac:


The car should be @130+ traps.


You car should be on its 2nd transmission by now.

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Report this Post04-13-2013 09:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have been keeping notes on you guys' trans setups. I just dont see my F23 lasting very long. However, I don't drag race much these days. We only have an 1/8th mile track. The closest 1/4 is 3hrs away. So maybe I'll get a few years out of the F23. We will have to see how she holds up when I take it to Road Atlanta for some road course action!
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Report this Post04-13-2013 09:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've abused mine more than any other transmission I've had in my car. It hasn't exploded yet but it is making a bad howling/whirl noise that gets loud on the highway. I have an autox tomorrow then i'm going to take it apart and see whats going on. I just hope it doesn't take out the caviler bell housing side if it does go.

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Report this Post04-13-2013 09:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nosrac:


Damn, u fast !
Me thinks that this will take .5 off the 1/4 mile ans add ~8mph.


You are thinking very optimistically. it should help but i doubt it will help that much. I bet the driveability it adds will help the most.
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Report this Post04-14-2013 09:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FormulaSend a Private Message to FormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nosrac:


Damn, u fast !
Me thinks that this will take .5 off the 1/4 mile ans add ~8mph.


My optimistic guess is this car at 17psi will be around what lfiero67 runs at 13.5 (he has more timing and compression) so somewhere around a 128 mph trap speed.

At 20psi, I would bet its similar to his 15.5psi pass that was low 130s mph. I'll try 20psi if Scott thinks its safe, but I'm not going to go any further, its pretty fast as it is
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Report this Post04-14-2013 09:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula:


My optimistic guess is this car at 17psi will be around what lfiero67 runs at 13.5 (he has more timing and compression) so somewhere around a 128 mph trap speed.

At 20psi, I would bet its similar to his 15.5psi pass that was low 130s mph. I'll try 20psi if Scott thinks its safe, but I'm not going to go any further, its pretty fast as it is


PSI on this car is not going to be easily compared to others. I am able to keep the efficiency range in the place I want it to be by running more pressure on the intake side and get a bit more air going through the motor leaner without fear of hurting things. I wouldnt particularly be afraid of at least trying up to 23 depending on how things look.

I have learned alot tuning 2jz stuff lately.
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Report this Post04-15-2013 09:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Justinbart:


You car should be on its 2nd transmission by now.






 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

I wouldnt particularly be afraid of at least trying up to 23 depending on how things look.



[This message has been edited by nosrac (edited 04-15-2013).]

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Report this Post04-15-2013 01:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nosrac:






Care to elaborate ?
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Report this Post04-15-2013 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FormulaSend a Private Message to FormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nosrac:






It's not unheard of to run low timing and more boost in turbo cars. It seems pretty common in the dsm world anyway.
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Report this Post04-15-2013 06:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
New converter is sweet. It should do better at the strip. It still makes boost.

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Report this Post04-15-2013 06:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Justinbart

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I also challenge DH to a race this Saturday at Milan NoEt race event for $50. (burger + entrance fee)

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Report this Post04-15-2013 07:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Justinbart:

New converter is sweet. It should do better at the strip. It still makes boost.




Damn, I should of went auto!!!!
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Report this Post04-15-2013 08:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Justinbart:

I also challenge DH to a race this Saturday at Milan NoEt race event for $50. (burger + entrance fee)



declined because thats retarded.
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Report this Post04-15-2013 08:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:


declined because thats retarded.


pussy!
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Report this Post04-15-2013 08:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:


pussy!


sure... because I have another 200hp and a significantly better 60ft.

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 04-15-2013).]

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Report this Post04-15-2013 08:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:


sure... because I have another 200hp and a significantly better 60ft.



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Report this Post04-15-2013 08:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Oh this is gonna get interesting! Sorry, I have to live vicariously through someone with a running and driving 3800t Fiero!
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Report this Post04-15-2013 08:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:


sure... because I have another 200hp and a significantly better 60ft.



$50 says I cross the finish line first.

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Report this Post04-15-2013 08:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yea, if you think your fiero is better, stand up like a man and prove it on the strip. Justin is calling you out, if you KNOW you'll win without even trying, why pass up $50 and some fun on a weekend?

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-15-2013).]

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Report this Post04-15-2013 09:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FormulaSend a Private Message to FormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That's pretty awesome!

I rode in a supercharged grandsport this weekend that trapped at 140 (ran a 10.5@140 - 1.9 60'), it was unbelievable how hard it pulled over 100mph.
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Report this Post04-15-2013 09:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula:

That's pretty awesome!

I rode in a supercharged grandsport this weekend that trapped at 140 (ran a 10.5@140 - 1.9 60'), it was unbelievable how hard it pulled over 100mph.


24psi should be close to 135 or maybe even more. I am confident we can run that everything looked great today.
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Report this Post04-15-2013 09:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

darkhorizon

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quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

Yea, if you think your fiero is better, stand up like a man and prove it on the strip. Justin is calling you out, if you KNOW you'll win without even trying, why pass up $50 and some fun on a weekend?



plenty of reasons. all of them involving the fact that he has drag radials.
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Report this Post04-15-2013 09:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:


plenty of reasons. all of them involving the fact that he has drag radials.


Drag radials....making another full pass.

all I hear is.


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[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 04-15-2013).]

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Report this Post04-15-2013 09:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Justinbart:


Drag radials....making another full pass.



What?
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Report this Post04-15-2013 09:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FormulaSend a Private Message to FormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Justinbart:

I also challenge DH to a race this Saturday at Milan NoEt race event for $50. (burger + entrance fee)



For some reason I picture that race like super mario kart, the person who has the most accurate turtle shells wins
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Report this Post04-15-2013 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:


Care to elaborate ?


23PSI on stock head gaskets....really. For a customer car you SHOULD error on the safe side. It may work fine but why push it way out of the safety zone.
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Report this Post04-15-2013 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FormulaSend a Private Message to FormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nosrac:


23PSI on stock head gaskets....really. For a customer car you SHOULD error on the safe side. It may work fine but why push it way out of the safety zone.


As long as Justin has time to replace stuff that breaks I don't care if they experiment with it. I told them this when they picked it up, so no worries.
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Report this Post04-15-2013 09:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula:


As long as Justin has time to replace stuff that breaks I don't care if they experiment with it. I told them this when they picked it up, so no worries.


OK, cool beans
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Report this Post04-15-2013 09:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for skuzzbomerSend a Private Message to skuzzbomerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nosrac:


23PSI on stock head gaskets....really. For a customer car you SHOULD error on the safe side. It may work fine but why push it way out of the safety zone.


Push it til they pop, then dial back a notch.

 
quote
Originally posted by Formula:


As long as Justin has time to replace stuff that breaks I don't care if they experiment with it. I told them this when they picked it up, so no worries.


Damn straight.

[This message has been edited by skuzzbomer (edited 04-15-2013).]

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Report this Post04-15-2013 09:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Justinbart:

New converter is sweet. It should do better at the strip. It still makes boost.

LOL, I'm glad you swapped it. DH suggested that I keep the stock TC..Hahaha Judging by your vid I should have kept it...

 
quote
Originally posted by nosrac:
Damn, u fast !
Me thinks that this will take .5 off the 1/4 mile ans add ~8mph.


I have it on record...

[This message has been edited by nosrac (edited 04-15-2013).]

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Report this Post04-15-2013 09:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:


plenty of reasons. all of them involving the fact that he has drag radials.


all I hear is bock bock bocK!
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Report this Post04-15-2013 09:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula:


As long as Justin has time to replace stuff that breaks I don't care if they experiment with it. I told them this when they picked it up, so no worries.


This is not an experiment. I have owned and driven pump gas turbo 3800 cars for the last 3 years, I think I have more than just an idea of what I am doing.
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Report this Post04-15-2013 09:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:


all I hear is bock bock bocK!


I can promise you it has nothing to do with me or the potential "shame" it could bring. It has everything to do with the fact that it is entirely reckless to do with someone elses car. Even if the owner would condone it I just dont feel comfortable being involved.

I have had no ability to offer input on this project after the time I picked it up, so I am not about to go risking reputation on a car I have no input over. I suggested parts and setup ideas on day one, and was quickly put on the shelf first thing day 2. Tuning the thing has been more work than any other tuning job I have EVER done and I have spent less than 30 minutes actually in the car, the rest of the time was listening to stories playing telephone through 3 different people about how bad I tuned it the first time, and how ignorant I was about the situation. Actual tuning is not where it stops either, as the suggestion of running a safe tire at the track was shot down for an unknown reason.. the drag radials on there wheel hop very bad and it will not get any better on more boost. It is not worth it to see the trans die just so I can race it and prove how awesome my car is with a better trans, lighter chassis, better tires, better converter, better turbo, a 50 shot of nitrous, and stage 4 ported heads.
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Report this Post04-15-2013 10:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:


I can promise you it has nothing to do with me or the potential "shame" it could bring. It has everything to do with the fact that it is entirely reckless to do with someone elses car. Even if the owner would condone it I just dont feel comfortable being involved.

I have had no ability to offer input on this project after the time I picked it up, so I am not about to go risking reputation on a car I have no input over. I suggested parts and setup ideas on day one, and was quickly put on the shelf first thing day 2. Tuning the thing has been more work than any other tuning job I have EVER done and I have spent less than 30 minutes actually in the car, the rest of the time was listening to stories playing telephone through 3 different people about how bad I tuned it the first time, and how ignorant I was about the situation. Actual tuning is not where it stops either, as the suggestion of running a safe tire at the track was shot down for an unknown reason.. the drag radials on there wheel hop very bad and it will not get any better on more boost. It is not worth it to see the trans die just so I can race it and prove how awesome my car is with a better trans, lighter chassis, better tires, better converter, better turbo, a 50 shot of nitrous, and stage 4 ported heads.


Sounds like you have spelled out your reasons. Now if Justin and the owner (Formula) said its all good, RACE IT!!!!! You're covered and are just in the other lane. Makes no difference if he is going to the track regardless.
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Report this Post04-15-2013 10:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

BV MotorSports

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quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:


all I hear is bock bock bocK!


Cadbury Easter Bunny is all I "mentally" heard when I read that! Baaahhaaahaa!
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Report this Post04-15-2013 10:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FormulaSend a Private Message to FormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:


This is not an experiment. I have owned and driven pump gas turbo 3800 cars for the last 3 years, I think I have more than just an idea of what I am doing.


That's why I sent it to you and Justin, you have the most experience with these setups out of anyone on the forum. Experiment was the wrong word to use in this context since it wasn't something new to you.
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Report this Post04-15-2013 10:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LFiero67Click Here to Email LFiero67Send a Private Message to LFiero67Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Does the car still have rubber control arm bushings? Only time I've ever had wheel hop is when I had stock bushings. Swapped them for poly and have never had wheel hop again. Bad struts will also make wheel hop worse.

As someone who has tried bias ply tires and drag radials, I would say that the Drag Radials are superior in every way with a Fiero. My best 60' with bias ply tires was 1.69. Swapped to Drag Radials and immediately started running 1.5x 60' times with the same power. I have run a best of 1.49. In addition the top end is very stable and have seen more MPH. On back to back runs from street tires to bias ply tires I ran 2 MPH faster on the street tires. I made a few passes with the ET Streets and swore I would never put another set of bias ply tires on my car. Tried the Drag Radials and have never had another tire on the back. I street drive it everywhere with the M/T radials, even drove it to the track and hour and 30 mins away on them once.

------------------
10.263 @ 134.44MPH - 1.49 60'
Billet 6262 Precision turbo, PT1001 intercooler, ST1 cam, 130lb springs, comp pushrods, HV3, ARP Rod bolts, otherwise stock L36.


Old M90 XP Cam time -
11.425 @115.60
1.543 60'

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Report this Post04-15-2013 10:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula:


That's why I sent it to you and Justin, you have the most experience with these setups out of anyone on the forum. Experiment was the wrong word to use in this context since it wasn't something new to you.


I had a few things planned but those ideas will never come to fruition. It should run OK as it is though I would have liked to do something special.
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Report this Post04-15-2013 11:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by LFiero67:

Does the car still have rubber control arm bushings? Only time I've ever had wheel hop is when I had stock bushings. Swapped them for poly and have never had wheel hop again. Bad struts will also make wheel hop worse.

As someone who has tried bias ply tires and drag radials, I would say that the Drag Radials are superior in every way with a Fiero. My best 60' with bias ply tires was 1.69. Swapped to Drag Radials and immediately started running 1.5x 60' times with the same power. I have run a best of 1.49. In addition the top end is very stable and have seen more MPH. On back to back runs from street tires to bias ply tires I ran 2 MPH faster on the street tires. I made a few passes with the ET Streets and swore I would never put another set of bias ply tires on my car. Tried the Drag Radials and have never had another tire on the back. I street drive it everywhere with the M/T radials, even drove it to the track and hour and 30 mins away on them once.



Sure drag radails work.. But I do believe your transmission broke with drag radials on it?

As far as better 60ft times on drag radials goes... I dont see how that holds up as the 2 1.3 60fts I know out of 65e's were on bias ply tires. I know also that its basically impossible to hop a bias ply tire my size (tire shake is an issue if you are running a bigger wider tire with low traction). The effect bias ply tires has on trap speeds could be a few factors... they start out smaller diameter than they end up at the end of the track, which is important for the way my car is setup, if it made yours slower I dont have an answer for that, as the bias ply tires are indeed lighter which effectively increases wheel horsepower, the only situation I know of that a bias ply eats power is when the sidewall is loaded (in the case of too much power this helps the launch when you cant control it). The traction advantages are indisputable, but there are more than enough situations where a drag radial works as good at the track.

I dont have a problem driving hours on my bias plys... they run and drive great. I have not had any stability issues in the slightest on the street, and I like the slight steering input removed at high speeds which makes it much harder to jerk the front end around in a situation.

I have considered going with some 10.5+ inch drag radial on my fiero, but I havent had much motivation to do so yet.
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