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13" Brake Rotor Upgrade for the 88's by fieroguru
Started on: 10-26-2011 08:08 PM
Replies: 231 (8840 views)
Last post by: fieroguru on 09-07-2013 08:17 AM
fieroguru
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Report this Post12-28-2011 06:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Page 5 ownage!

How to drill rotors for the 5x100mm at home:

The concentric rings will precisely located the rotor, so the pattern you need to drill in the rotors only has to allow the wheel studs to pass through. It doesn't have to be super precise and using a simple drill guide will allow you do accomplish this task with common tools.

Take a junk rear wheel bearing:


Clamp it in a vice by the bearing housing, use a 13/16" deep well socket against the internal splines and hammer until it comes apart:


Take the wheel flange and an 18mm socket and clamp it in the vice as shown to press out all 5 wheel studs:


Use a wire brush to clean up the wheel flange and hub:


Slide one of the concentric rings from your brake kit onto the wheel flange:


Find a large bolt and washer to allow clamping the wheel flange to the rotor. At the bottom you can use a flat bar vs. the large thick washer I have shown.


Align the open U to the recessed hole in the rotor and tighten the bolt to hold it in place (you do not want it to move while drilling):


Find a 1/2" drill bit - a pilot point one will allow drilling the hole in a single pass (the one shown is a Dewalt Cobalt with 3/8" shank and pilot point and is available at Lowes).


Use a drill press or in a pinch a hand drill will work. Drill down through the wheel flange (the splined wheel stud holes are just slightly smaller than 1/2" so you will remove some material from the wheel flange) and through the rotor. Repeat for all holes and repeat for all rotors.


Something to keep in mind is whatever you bolt across the bottom to hold the wheel flange in place will probably be drilled as well. The setup I use has pressed in tight fitting washers for the bolt, a tapered head on the bolt to precisely center the large washer (brake lathe part) and I turned down the large washer so that it just clears the edge of the bolt holes:




That's all it takes.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 12-28-2011).]

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mattwa
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Report this Post12-28-2011 08:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Awesome! Thanks!

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 12-28-2011).]

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fieroguru
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Report this Post12-30-2011 05:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Gearing up to have 25 kits ready by Jan 15th...
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fieroguru
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Report this Post01-03-2012 07:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bump for the new year!
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Report this Post01-04-2012 02:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got my kit today. These things are huge!!
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fieroguru
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Report this Post01-04-2012 06:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The balance of the bolts and aluminum for the cable spacers showed up today.

The guy who wanted finished kit #5 hasn't responded by the deadline, so up for grabs is this kit ready to ship. If you want it, have $$$ ready to spend ($640 shipped), and are in the lower 48 states, send me a PM.
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Report this Post01-06-2012 05:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So I went today and did few 60-0 tests with my G-Tech. Got 165', 167' and 162'. Then the road I thought would be empty got crowded. Here we have like 1 cop per square mile so I have to be very carefull and my V8's sound calls a lot of attention. But overall it is performing about stock for an 88. I have slotted/drilled rotors with some Porterfields pads that I never liked. I will try to do some more tests again before I do the swap. Then I will measure again. Will see.
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fieroguru
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Report this Post01-06-2012 08:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Alex4mula:

So I went today and did few 60-0 tests with my G-Tech. Got 165', 167' and 162'. Then the road I thought would be empty got crowded. Here we have like 1 cop per square mile so I have to be very carefull and my V8's sound calls a lot of attention. But overall it is performing about stock for an 88. I have slotted/drilled rotors with some Porterfields pads that I never liked. I will try to do some more tests again before I do the swap. Then I will measure again. Will see.


I am glad to see some before data. If possible it would be good to have 5+ stops consecutive stops from 60-0 or even 80-0 (but don't get any tickets). To try and demonstrate the stock brake rotors tendency to fade after some aggressive use.
It also would be good to know how easy it was to keep the wheels at the edge of locking up but w/o locking up... this is where the best braking performance will happen. If you have to use excessive force to get there, you can't effectively make small adjustments. The larger rotors should allow you to reach this level of braking - at edge of lockup - with less pedal pressure and more control to make small adjustments.
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Report this Post01-07-2012 12:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:


I am glad to see some before data. If possible it would be good to have 5+ stops consecutive stops from 60-0 or even 80-0 (but don't get any tickets). To try and demonstrate the stock brake rotors tendency to fade after some aggressive use.
It also would be good to know how easy it was to keep the wheels at the edge of locking up but w/o locking up... this is where the best braking performance will happen. If you have to use excessive force to get there, you can't effectively make small adjustments. The larger rotors should allow you to reach this level of braking - at edge of lockup - with less pedal pressure and more control to make small adjustments.


My old G-tech only does 60-0. Yes I wanted to do more than 5 stops but as I said the place was not the best. On this car is super hard to lock tires. Will also test later my white car just to check the Ebay rotors/Wagner brake combo for comparison.
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Report this Post01-08-2012 01:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Chris_narfSend a Private Message to Chris_narfEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I may have missed it, but what do the rotors start out life as (e.g. what is the original vehicle application)?

------------------
-Chris
'85 V6 SE 4sp (SOLD)
'88 GT Auto (fun car)
'99 Kawasaki Vulcan 500, owned since new
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fieroguru
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Report this Post01-08-2012 02:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Chris_narf:

I may have missed it, but what do the rotors start out life as (e.g. what is the original vehicle application)?



You didn't miss it, that information is not being shared at this time.
If there is sufficient interest in selling hardware only kits (see mall thread), then I will share the rotor application with the purchasers.

They are rear rotors from a 2008+ model year application.
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Report this Post01-09-2012 12:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Chris_narfSend a Private Message to Chris_narfEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:


You didn't miss it, that information is not being shared at this time.
If there is sufficient interest in selling hardware only kits (see mall thread), then I will share the rotor application with the purchasers.

They are rear rotors from a 2008+ model year application.


That's good enough information for now. Since rotors are a "wear and tear" item, no matter how good a rotor is, it'll eventually need to be replaced.

How easy/hard would it be to use Corvette calipers with this kit? One down side about owning an 88 is that there are not a lot of options for brake pads compared to other vehicles. The Corvette caliper would probably have a strong bite too.

Your kit looks very well thought out, it'll be a great add to the Fiero community!

[This message has been edited by Chris_narf (edited 01-09-2012).]

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fieroguru
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Report this Post01-09-2012 07:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Chris_narf:
How easy/hard would it be to use Corvette calipers with this kit?



No idea, and really have no plans to investigate.
One of my personal restrictions from a liability standpoint is I will not offer brake kits that require mixing/matching the master cylinder, calipers, any hydraulic component from other applications or loss of the parking brake function.

This kit keeps the stock 88 brake hydraulics/components to retain stock brake balance/bias. The larger rotors just provide more braking leverage.
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Report this Post01-09-2012 07:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Been making progress on having everything hardware related for the first 25 kits in stock by the time they officially go on sale. Cable spacers, sand paper and bolts are complete. Have 10 completed cable couplers and 20+ more in the welding stage... just need to get more welding gas.




I am going to call up my vendors this week for the brackets and rings to get an ETA for those parts.
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Report this Post01-10-2012 08:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The brackets are done and should ship out today.
The rings look to be delayed slightly (haven't shipped & expected delivery Jan 20th - 25th), so I went ahead and ordered 5 sets from another vendor to see if I can get them sooner (this is the same vendor I ordered 2 from earlier and they were here in under 1 week).

Finished the welding and turning for the couplers last night. Tonight I should finish them. These couplers are quite labor intensive, so I made as many as my material would allow, so after this batch, I will have 32 of these in stock.
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Report this Post01-11-2012 07:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here is a pretty impressive stack of brackets! Some how the 100 brackets for a full 25 sets turned into 99, so one stack only has 3. No biggie, I will keep 1 for mockup purposes and can use the other 2 for a 1/2 set to someone. Now I just need the rings...


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Report this Post01-12-2012 08:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Are front and rear brackets identical? Just wondering if I can split my kit into two front kits. Low probability of doing that but just thinking.
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fieroguru
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Report this Post01-12-2012 09:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Alex4mula:

Are front and rear brackets identical? Just wondering if I can split my kit into two front kits. Low probability of doing that but just thinking.


Yes, the caliper brackets are the same front/rear as well as side to side.
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Report this Post01-12-2012 06:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

The rings look to be delayed slightly (haven't shipped & expected delivery Jan 20th - 25th), so I went ahead and ordered 5 sets from another vendor to see if I can get them sooner


The 5 sets of rings I ordered from the 2nd vendor have shipped and Fed Ex should be delivering them to me on the 14th! So I should have everything for the first 5 kits by the initial launch. Even though it will cost more, I cancelled the 25 ring sets from the first vendor and ordered the remaining 20 from the one that can get then quicker.

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Report this Post01-14-2012 06:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am done making all the parking brake hardware for the first 25 kits. The first 5 sets of rings were delayed today due to weather, so they are now scheduled to arrive on1/17 and the other 20 sets on 1/19. Also ordered 2 full sets of the blingy style 3 rotors and they should be here mid next week as well.




They are almost ready...
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Report this Post01-16-2012 07:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The first 5 sets of rings arrived today! I started the minimal work to them for use in the kit and have 1 set complete and the other 4 will be done on Tuesday.


So with that, I am ready to start taking orders and payment for these first 5 kits!

Payment in full is due at time of ordering and I will place the order for your rotors the same day. The kit will ship about 7-9 days from time of order, or possibly sooner if I happen to have your rotor style in stock. I have already placed orders for 2 full sets of style 3 rotors (the blingy ones with 2 rows of holes per 1 slot) and those should be here in a day or two.

For orders, please PM your request and I will let you know how to pay.

For those people interested in only hardware kits, please let me know as well. Depending on how many full kits I sell and the # interested in hardware only kits, I might lower the needed # to sell the hardware only.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 01-16-2012).]

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Report this Post01-21-2012 08:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The rest of the rings are here, along with 2 full sets of style 3 rotors... anyone want a kit?


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Report this Post01-21-2012 09:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I finally received yesterday my EBC pads so I am ready to install my kit.
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Report this Post01-21-2012 09:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for exoticseClick Here to Email exoticseSend a Private Message to exoticseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Nice kit !

Just curious though, why you made it for the 88's and not other models since there are obviously more others than 88's ??
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Report this Post01-21-2012 10:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by exoticse:
Nice kit !

Just curious though, why you made it for the 88's and not other models since there are obviously more others than 88's ??


Thanks for the compliment!

I didn't develop this kit to make a bunch of $$$, I developed it to support the 88's.
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Report this Post01-21-2012 10:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

fieroguru

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quote
Originally posted by Alex4mula:

I finally received yesterday my EBC pads so I am ready to install my kit.


I would love to see some install pics!
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Report this Post01-21-2012 10:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fierokid87Click Here to Email Fierokid87Send a Private Message to Fierokid87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If I could find a set of 17's or a combo 17/18 inch rim set I would get a set of these 13 inch rotors but I cant seem to find anything that fits the 88 offsets.

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Report this Post01-22-2012 11:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierokid87:

If I could find a set of 17's or a combo 17/18 inch rim set I would get a set of these 13 inch rotors but I cant seem to find anything that fits the 88 offsets.



Larger wheels for the 88's aren't that difficult to find. Here are a couple of good threads with pics and specs for larger wheels on 88's:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/072029.html
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/113960.html
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Report this Post01-23-2012 01:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierokid87:

If I could find a set of 17's or a combo 17/18 inch rim set I would get a set of these 13 inch rotors but I cant seem to find anything that fits the 88 offsets.



Naa... Lots out there. You just have to look. Some are cheap, some very expensive, but trust me, there are a lot to chose from. I went with some 17x7 and 17x8 Enkie Falcons. Only spent about $500 from 1010tires.com site. Just remember your offset front/back is differant, and you have to get it right, or you will not be happy with the look.



Rob
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Report this Post01-28-2012 08:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bump!
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Report this Post01-28-2012 10:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsClick Here to Email blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bump for a great project.

------------------
Ron
The key thing is to wake up breathing! All the rest can be fixed. (Except Stupid - You can't fix that)
Always remember these words of wisdom.

"The Lord must truly love fools, for he made them in abundance."

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Report this Post01-30-2012 11:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am please to announce that I have sold enough full kits to start offering hardware only kits for $350 shipped to US & Canada. The hardware only kit has everything but the rotors, and here is a sample pic:


If you order 2 or more hardware kits at the same time, I will discount the price to $300 shipped.

A full set of drilled/slotted/Zinc coated rotors costs just under $250 shipped (either Style 2 or Style 3). The plain rotors (no holes, slots or zinc coated) are just under $160 shipped. I will share the application and vendor for the style rotor you want, once you have purchased a hardware kit.

Drilling the rotors to the 5x100 pattern can be done with a 1/2" drill bit and an old rear wheel bearing flange as shown here:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/120346.html


Here are a few pics to show the drastic change in visual impact of this rotor kit.
Stock rotor setup:



Caliper bracket and concentric ring installed:


New 13" rotor installed:

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 02-02-2012).]

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Report this Post01-31-2012 10:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SERGE144Click Here to Email SERGE144Send a Private Message to SERGE144Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I saw in an earlier post that these wouldn't behind 16x7 wheel, would this fit under my 16x6 wheel?
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Report this Post02-01-2012 06:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by SERGE144:

I saw in an earlier post that these wouldn't behind 16x7 wheel, would this fit under my 16x6 wheel?


Probably not. Once they wouldn't fit my 16's, I moved the caliper placement a little further outboard to gain more clearance between the caliper and rotor to ensure they can not touch (the stock caliper mounting bolts and sliders have quite a fit of slop in the hole and allows the caliper to be placed in a range of positions). In this new position, they will most likely make contact with the inside of the 16" wheel.
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Report this Post02-02-2012 06:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by SERGE144:

I saw in an earlier post that these wouldn't behind 16x7 wheel, would this fit under my 16x6 wheel?


PM sent... might have a solution.
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Report this Post02-07-2012 06:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bump for some installed pics by some of my customers!
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Report this Post02-11-2012 02:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Any new installation pics?
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Report this Post02-15-2012 05:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for themcguyverClick Here to visit themcguyver's HomePageClick Here to Email themcguyverSend a Private Message to themcguyverEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
hi my name is tom and I have a 88 would like to talk about purchasing rotor kit my # is 714-334-3747 cell thank you.
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Alex4mula
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From: Lake Worth, FL,US
Registered: Dec 1999


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Report this Post02-21-2012 10:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Finally got these installed. Did only the front to test that first. If good enough then I would do the other half on my other car. Install was pretty straight forward. I used a Dremel to clean faster the area where the centering ring goes. The rings fit tight. The brackets also fit tight and good. Had to push the sliders all the way back to fit the caliper over them with the new pads. Tis was the hardest part but ok. They look great. Won't be able to test yet as I need to fix one of my mufflers. Hopefully by the weekend I should be done.

Rotor comparison;



Installed;




With wheel before & after look;



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Red: TPI V8 + 6-Speed White: 3800SC auto
304rwHP/366rwTQ

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mattwa
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Report this Post02-21-2012 10:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow, that fills the wheels SO much better! Very nice. Did anyone else have that same issue with the sliders? Not sure I like having to do that to them.
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