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Mattwa's 4.9/4T60E swap. by mattwa
Started on: 04-15-2011 11:35 PM
Replies: 476 (14206 views)
Last post by: mattwa on 07-28-2013 01:26 PM
Raydar
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Report this Post05-09-2011 08:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice job!

I think I already told you that, but still...

You've come a long way in the hobby, too. I still remember when you were just talking about the 3.4.
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mattwa
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Report this Post05-09-2011 08:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

Nice job!

I think I already told you that, but still...

You've come a long way in the hobby, too. I still remember when you were just talking about the 3.4.


Compliments are always accepted. Thanks.

In the case of the 3.4, It's one of those "been there, done that" type of thing. Never doing that again. I spent way too much on that thing and got nothing but trouble. I sold it to a guy in CA, and I hope he gets good use out of it.
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mattwa
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Report this Post05-11-2011 12:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I installed the rear fender liners and cradle rubber protection pieces today. I have noticed the past two days or so there was some bad noise/vibration coming from the front passenger tire area. Found out every single lug nut on that wheel was loose! I went around the car, and several other lug nuts were also loose. Damn Conrads. Oh well, no damage done, this time at least.

Also, while my rear suspension is pretty much brand new now, my front suspension needs some help. I'm pretty sure it's running on the factory ball-joints, they don't look all that good. It also has heavy surface rust on the whole cross-member. The only things replaced on the front since I have owned this Fiero is the shocks and sway-bar end links. Took some pictures today, and it just doesn't look good. Lol. My plan is to rebuild it with poly bushings and RD's 1" lowering ball joint, along with a 1" sway bar.



^^^Nasty/scary.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 06-07-2011).]

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Ruffy
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Report this Post05-11-2011 10:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RuffySend a Private Message to RuffyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
On a positive note if you sand blast it that will give you a great weight reduction
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mattwa
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Report this Post05-11-2011 11:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Ruffy:

On a positive note if you sand blast it that will give you a great weight reduction


LOL, yea, your right. Its pretty shocking, really. You take a quick look at my car, and wow it's really clean! Then you look under the car and you're stunned. well, at least just the front and mid section now, the rear has been totally welded up and coated with POR-15. The front suspension is what my rear suspension looked like before I totally went over it. Had holes in the cradle, you know, nothing major.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-11-2011).]

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Report this Post05-11-2011 05:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BOBBY DClick Here to Email BOBBY DSend a Private Message to BOBBY DEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well your brake lines look great. Did you make those?

[This message has been edited by BOBBY D (edited 05-11-2011).]

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mattwa
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Report this Post05-11-2011 09:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BOBBY D:

Well your brake lines look great. Did you make those?



No, those are just normal Stainless-steel lined brake lines, I have them on all four corners along with the Grand am brake upgrade.

Today my dad and I washed and vacuumed out our Fiero's, had fiero al and Fierokid87 come over with their Fiero's, and then we had a little "Parade" to the local car show, First of the year. Took some pictures, saw some great cars, and just had a great time! Perfect weather for a car show, too.


In order from left to right, Alex's 86GT (fiero al), Phil's 86GT (Ridgelandbaseball), My 86SE, and Scott's 88 Formula (Fierokid87).

I thought the layout was kind of funny fastback, fastback, and notchback, notchback. And all three Fiero's (except mine, but it did at before) have the 60* V6. A 2.8, 3.2, and 3.4. Of course mine is the 4.9 V8.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

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mattwa
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Report this Post05-12-2011 05:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got my gauges today in the mail! I'm really happy with them so far. Great deal. Here is my progress with them so far.

I could see someone trying to rev the 4.9 to 10K RPMs. LOL. KA-BOOM.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-12-2011).]

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mattwa
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Report this Post05-13-2011 12:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I decided to install my gauges after all, and for the most part they are installed. They seem to work, but I'm going to wait till I start and move the car around to see how well they work. I don't think I can use the fiero Oil pressure sender with the gauge, it maxes out when you turn the ignition on. Calibrating the fuel gauge is going to be fun (not).
Really nice back-light though.

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Report this Post05-13-2011 10:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for shaggyizzySend a Private Message to shaggyizzyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What does the digital gauge on the speedometer read? trip? mpg? whatever it does, they look really awesome!

[This message has been edited by shaggyizzy (edited 05-13-2011).]

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mattwa
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Report this Post05-14-2011 01:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by shaggyizzy:

What does the digital gauge on the speedometer read? trip? mpg? whatever it does, they look really awesome!



It has the odometer and trip odometer in it.

Spent alot of time working on my car again today. I had to install the aftermarket oil pressure sender because first off the factory one is the wrong ohms, second is the aftermarket was a totally different thread size, so I had to use the oil cooler plug, and drill and tap that, works good now. I found out the bolt holding my 4th mount was totally loose! Tightened that up really good. I drained out as much fuel as I could, set the empty, and then filled it up and set the full mark on the fuel gauge. Also calibrated the Speedometer. Plus a few minor things, just been a long tiring day.
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mattwa
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Report this Post05-19-2011 01:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well I have been driving it around past few days, gas gauge doesn't work, just goes to full on start-up, after that it has a mind of its own. Also installed the rear sway bar, wow does it make a difference in the handling. Bought an Xbox 360, so that's whats been consuming most of my time, just taking a break from the near constant work on my car I was doing, day after day of nothing but Fiero's does burn you out, even for me. However, I did split the case on a spare 4-speed I had laying around just for the fun of it. Pretty neat inside.
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randye
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Report this Post05-19-2011 11:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

Well I have been driving it around past few days, gas gauge doesn't work, just goes to full on start-up, after that it has a mind of its own.


Are you sure that the fuel gage you got has the correct Ohms range for the Fiero?
The sending unit should give you 0 Ohms at empty and 90 Ohms at full.
Are you *sure* that the sending unit is working properly?

(HINT: You can calibrate the fuel gage for empty by simply shorting out the feed to the gage from the sending unit...MUCH easier than draining a fuel tank )

If the troubles persist, call Speedhut and ask to speak with Aaron. He's the tech guru there and can probably help you...a lot.

I LOVE my Speedhut gages and they work fantastically well.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...3/HTML/000111-6.html

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-19-2011).]

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mattwa
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Report this Post05-19-2011 12:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by randye:


Are you sure that the fuel gage you got has the correct Ohms range for the Fiero?
The sending unit should give you 0 Ohms at empty and 90 Ohms at full.
Are you *sure* that the sending unit is working properly?

(HINT: You can calibrate the fuel gage for empty by simply shorting out the feed to the gage from the sending unit...MUCH easier than draining a fuel tank )

If the troubles persist, call Speedhut and ask to speak with Aaron. He's the tech guru there and can probably help you...a lot.

I LOVE my Speedhut gages and they work fantastically well.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...3/HTML/000111-6.html



Nope, no clue if it has the correct Ohm range, I bought them used from ebay like I said. Yes I know what the ohm range is for the OEM sending unit and it worked great before with the stock gauge. I think its the wrong gauge.

How does shorting out the feed make it read empty? Wouldn't that make it have infinite ohms?

EDIT: Just sent a message to eBay seller asking if he knew the ohm range of the gauge. More then likely its wrong, but I'm just checking.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-19-2011).]

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randye
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Report this Post05-19-2011 12:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Check the model number on your gage against the gages listed on Speedhut's website.
That ought to give you the answer.
(assuming the model number was somewhere on the gage you got...)
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Report this Post05-19-2011 12:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
0 ohms does not equal infinite ohms, in fact they would be opposite. 0 ohms would be connected directly without resistance, and infinite ohms would be disconnected. Could test the range with a potentiometer (variable resistor) or wire a bunch of cheapo resistors in series so their values qual say 90 ohms.
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mattwa
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Report this Post05-19-2011 12:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok then, I'm honestly confused how shorting it would make it read empty. I don't really feel like getting into it, so if I understand correctly, all I have to do is ground the feed and it will be like its empty and I can then set the empty part of the gauge?
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mattwa
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Report this Post05-19-2011 12:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Randye, I just looked at the Speedhut website, and they only have one gas gauge listed, which is programmable to anything under 300ohms.
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Raydar
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Report this Post05-19-2011 12:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

Ok then, I'm honestly confused how shorting it would make it read empty. I don't really feel like getting into it, so if I understand correctly, all I have to do is ground the feed and it will be like its empty and I can then set the empty part of the gauge?


That's correct.
0 ohms = dead shorted. Infinite ohms = no connection at all.
Keep in mind that if your original gas gauge "lied", this one won't be any more accurate.
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mattwa
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Report this Post05-19-2011 02:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


That's correct.
0 ohms = dead shorted. Infinite ohms = no connection at all.
Keep in mind that if your original gas gauge "lied", this one won't be any more accurate.


Cool, thanks! I'll try to figure this out.

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Report this Post05-19-2011 02:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for richgClick Here to Email richgSend a Private Message to richgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
nice job and a lot of work done well
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Report this Post05-19-2011 03:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

Randye, I just looked at the Speedhut website, and they only have one gas gauge listed, which is programmable to anything under 300ohms.


Then you should be *good to go*, assuming now that the gage you bought is good.

Oh, and the instructions to short the "feed" line from the sender to the gage to calibrate empty came from Aaron at Speedhut.
I called him because I also thought I had to calibrate my fuel gage by emptying the tank and then filling it..
I just KNEW there had to be an easier way so I called....

Fill the tank and calibrate the gage to "FULL"
Then dead short the feed wire, (ground it), ahead of the gage and calibrate the gage to "EMPTY"

Edit to add:

If you do come to the conclusion that the gage you bought is bad, you should consider calling Speedhut and arranging to send it to them for repair.
I'm not sure if they will warrant it or not since you're not the original purchaser, so you'll need to polish up your negotiating skills and give it your best shot.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-19-2011).]

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mattwa
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Report this Post05-20-2011 03:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok, thanks randye. I'll work my magic and see if I can get it to work correctly.

On other news, there is this horrible screeching noise from the driver's front tire area with I turn right. Proceeded and took it all apart, wheel bearings look good, dust shield modded to keep it off the rotor, caliper and pads look great, put it all back together, but the noise is still there?! WTF! What is it's problem.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-20-2011).]

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Report this Post05-20-2011 03:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 87antuzziClick Here to Email 87antuzziSend a Private Message to 87antuzziEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

Ok, thanks randye. I'll work my magic and see if I can get it to work correctly.

On other news, there is this horrible screeching noise from the driver's front tire area with I turn right. Proceeded and took it all apart, wheel bearings look good, dust shield modded to keep it off the rotor, caliper and pads look great, put it all back together, but the noise is still there?! WTF! What is it's problem.



Factory wheels? Rubbing on the wheel tub? Lowered and the tire is rubbing?
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Report this Post05-21-2011 04:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yea nevermind all that. It was actually the rear driver side tire, and the caliper mounting bolts gouging into the rotor because they stuck out and were too long. All taken care of now!
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Report this Post05-24-2011 06:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bled my driver rear brake line today, brakes are now much improved with stopping power and feel. Also bought an intake cone for the duke intake hose that is attached to the 4.9 intake snorkel.
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Report this Post05-25-2011 03:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Took this picture yesterday, thought I would share.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-29-2011).]

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Report this Post05-25-2011 04:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BOBBY DClick Here to Email BOBBY DSend a Private Message to BOBBY DEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
how much lower did your rear end get with the 4.9? It looks like it was lowered about an inch or is it your are parked at an angle?
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Report this Post05-25-2011 05:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The rear is lower then it was with the 3.4/4-speed, but not much. maybe 1/2"-1". I would like to get it weighed sometime in the near future to see exactly what the weight is. I'm guessing I added 100lbs on it for so from a 90lb 4-speed muncie to the 200lb 4T60e. The 4.9 weights about the same as the 3.4.
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Report this Post05-26-2011 07:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So today, I put in some addictive into the transmission to see if it stops whining in reverse, can't hurt. Afterwords, I went over Alex's house and tried on the rims he has sitting around. Well the tires are 235/60/16, and they rub on the strut, so either spacers would be needed, smaller tires, or coil-overs. I would need coil-overs for the 88 suspension anyway, so score!
What do you guys think? I like it..kinda. Lol. I only did the back because It was a test for fitment/looks.

Makes my 14's look tiny!

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 06-13-2011).]

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Fieroseverywhere
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Report this Post05-27-2011 12:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereClick Here to Email FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think your car is no longer a 2M6. You should fix that.

I vote for the 16's over stockers.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 05-27-2011).]

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Report this Post05-27-2011 12:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DeLorean00Click Here to Email DeLorean00Send a Private Message to DeLorean00Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wheels are OK, but only with smaller tires. If not keep your stock wheels, I like the gold accents.
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Report this Post05-27-2011 05:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for joshh44Send a Private Message to joshh44Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
thos are big tires. i kinda like the look. makes it look like its meant to rip apart the road
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Report this Post05-27-2011 01:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I agree with the smaller tires comment, but I would just deal with it till I wore the tires out before I got new lower profile ones.

Edit: Do you think that would mess up my speedometer even with the 4.9 swap stuff?

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-27-2011).]

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Report this Post05-27-2011 03:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereClick Here to Email FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

Edit: Do you think that would mess up my speedometer even with the 4.9 swap stuff?



It will throw it off a little bit. That depends entirely on what is programmed into your chip for tire size though. Assuming stock fieros sizes...The 14 size is usually a 215/60 (24.2" dia). The 235/60-16 size is a 27.1" diameter. This makes for a 12.2% difference. In other words when your speedo reads 60mph you will actually be doing ~67mph.

Once you decide on the final tire size you can have your chip changed to add in your new size. Those 235/60's may not fit on the front well. I've found that a 25.7" diameter is the max on my car with a 1.5" drop and 37mm offset 16's FYI. Your max size may vary.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 05-27-2011).]

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Report this Post05-27-2011 03:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere:


It will throw it off a little bit. That depends entirely on what is programmed into your chip for tire size though. Assuming stock fieros sizes...The 14 size is usually a 215/60 (24.2" dia). The 235/60-16 size is a 27.1" diameter. This makes for a 12.2% difference. In other words when your speedo reads 60mph you will actually be doing ~67mph.

Once you decide on the final tire size you can have your chip changed to add in your new size. Those 235/60's may not fit on the front well. I've found that a 25.7" diameter is the max on my car with a 1.5" drop and 37mm offset 16's FYI. Your max size may vary.



Yea, that makes sense. Thanks for the information.

I have another topic I wish to get opinions for. I have a 95% complete 88 suspension (front and rear) just sitting in the garage. 88 rear needs to be totally gone over with POR-15 and poly etc. Would it be worth the time, effort, and money to swap it for my upgraded pre-88 rear with poly, POR-15, and added rear sway bar? My choices for the front suspension are either 1. get another rust-free pre-88 front and rebuild it with poly (which I have) etc, or 2. use the 88 front sitting in the garage. As you can see with the pictures I posted earlier, I'm not going to try to rebuild my current front suspension, as it is just too rusted.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-27-2011).]

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RCR
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Report this Post05-27-2011 04:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RCRClick Here to Email RCRSend a Private Message to RCREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:


Yea, that makes sense. Thanks for the information.

I have another topic I wish to get opinions for. I have a 95% complete 88 suspension (front and rear) just sitting in the garage. 88 rear needs to be totally gone over with POR-15 and poly etc. Would it be worth the time, effort, and money to swap it for my upgraded pre-88 rear with poly, POR-15, and added rear sway bar? My choices for the front suspension are either 1. get another rust-free pre-88 front and rebuild it with poly (which I have) etc, or 2. use the 88 front sitting in the garage. As you can see with the pictures I posted earlier, I'm not going to try to rebuild my current front suspension, as it is just too rusted.



You know my thoughts, although I will add that you should do the front first... Car looks good, too.

Bob
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mattwa
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Report this Post05-28-2011 01:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Today I got my tach filter from Speedhut in the mail. I installed it, and it worked, my tach operates as it should now. Also, I installed the LED strip I got from superbrightleds. Looks great!

However, gas gauge still messed up.

EDIT: also forgot to say that my check engine light is on. Problem is, it doesn't do anything when the A and B terminals are jumped, but it does go into base timing mode when they are jumped and the engine is running? Whats up with that.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 06-07-2011).]

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Fieroseverywhere
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Report this Post05-28-2011 02:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereClick Here to Email FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

EDIT: also forgot to say that my check engine light is on. Problem is, it doesn't do anything when the A and B terminals are jumped, but it does go into base timing mode when they are jumped and the engine is running? Whats up with that.



Thats what its suppose to do. Jumping those pins is only for setting the timing. The 4.9 PCM can't flash codes like the fiero one. You'll need to pick up a scanner. Here is one for a good price...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...5fAutomotiveQ5fTools

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 05-28-2011).]

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josef644
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Report this Post05-28-2011 02:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
FEW is correct, the 4.9 ECM will not bilnk thte codes to you like the Fiero ECM does. You will need a scanner of some type. I purchased an AutoXray 5000 off of Ebay for about $110.00. It scans both OBDI and OBDII ECM's. The one FEW posted for you looks like a greeat deal.
-Joe
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