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Improvement on "standard" 11 1/4 inch brakes by Will
Started on: 12-29-2004 05:37 PM
Replies: 640
Last post by: fierofan25 on 07-19-2011 05:20 PM
Jncomutt
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Report this Post09-19-2005 11:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttClick Here to Email JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttDirect Link to This Post
Just wanted to add that I got my Blazer calipers mounted on the front today. I like the way the brake line attaches and where the bleeder is located. Will this was a very good addition to this brake swap, thanks again!
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Report this Post09-20-2005 09:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KohburnSend a Private Message to KohburnDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


You're using it with slightly modified pads, right? I was wondering if you knew if -3 would let the caliper be mounted without pad modifications.
Also, the calipers are on the same side as stock, but on the rear of the knuckle instead of the front, right? So the bleeders are on the bottom? Or do I have that messed up?

yeah bleeders are on the bottom - I pulled the calipers off to bleed them, been thinking of a way to drill and tap for a new bleeder up top.

i made -3 based on some measurements I took off my modified break pads - it "should" fit but i can't guarantee it as i never bothered making another set of adaptors - might be worth making something out of wood for a mock up

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Will
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Report this Post09-20-2005 10:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
My dad will be using those same calipers to put rear disks on his Eagle, so I will probably just have the laser burn one to mock up since we'll have a pair of those calipers around.
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Report this Post10-03-2005 12:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttClick Here to Email JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttDirect Link to This Post
I have a set of Sluppy REAR brackets for sale with the spacers and ebrake elbows for sale if anyone wants them. Make me an offer..

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Report this Post11-01-2005 03:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttClick Here to Email JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttDirect Link to This Post
Here's a stupid question... What size are the damn hex heads of the blazer slider bolts? None of the sizes I tried fit 'right'. I don't really want to tighten the caliper down with a loose fitting hex thing so figured I'd try to find out...

Got a new 3/8" bit, works perfectly, just wanted to add that.

[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 11-07-2005).]

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Report this Post11-07-2005 05:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GODFATHERClick Here to Email GODFATHERSend a Private Message to GODFATHERDirect Link to This Post
Well I installed my rear brakes this weekend while I was reinstalling my engine and I had the wheels off I decided to do my brake upgrade . Took some pics when I'm done with the frt I'll post them . I like the way they look in the back of the wheel . Hope they work as good as they look .
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Report this Post11-15-2005 09:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GODFATHERClick Here to Email GODFATHERSend a Private Message to GODFATHERDirect Link to This Post
Do you guys feel that the back brakes are still delayed from this upgrade . I feel the difference with braking but still feels like the frts are working more then the rear or grabbing faster . I read in another post that some people take a seal out of the prop valve to let the rears do more work . Is this true and does it work ?
Thanks
Joe
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Report this Post11-15-2005 09:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Knight RiderClick Here to Email Knight RiderSend a Private Message to Knight RiderDirect Link to This Post
Godfather did you upgrade the master cylinder to a Chevy Blazer master cylinder or are you still using the stock one. If you are still using the stock one that would cause you to have more pedal travel as most upgraded brakes take more fluid to operate. This could be one of the problems you are experiencing.

[This message has been edited by Knight Rider (edited 11-15-2005).]

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Report this Post11-15-2005 09:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Knight RiderClick Here to Email Knight RiderSend a Private Message to Knight RiderDirect Link to This Post

Knight Rider

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Double Post

[This message has been edited by Knight Rider (edited 11-15-2005).]

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GODFATHER
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Report this Post11-15-2005 11:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GODFATHERClick Here to Email GODFATHERSend a Private Message to GODFATHERDirect Link to This Post
I upgraded the master cly to the 92 Blazer .
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GODFATHER
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Report this Post11-19-2005 11:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GODFATHERClick Here to Email GODFATHERSend a Private Message to GODFATHERDirect Link to This Post
Here's some pics.




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Report this Post05-06-2006 12:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero_AdamSend a Private Message to Fiero_AdamDirect Link to This Post
Bump to the top so I can save this in my favorites. This is o/t but is there any way to save a thread in your favorites while you're viewing it? I couldn't find anything.

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Will
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Report this Post05-08-2006 11:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
I don't think there is. There's also no way other way to subscribe to a thread unless you authored it.
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Report this Post06-09-2006 08:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VonovClick Here to Email VonovSend a Private Message to VonovDirect Link to This Post
Just finished reading this thread. Absolutely amazing. What I particularly like about this upgrade, is that it uses parts that are likely to be around for years to come, generally less expensive than Fiero equivalents, and still allows the use of factory or factory-size wheels, keeping the cost of a better set of brakes down to a reasonable level for those who either don't have the coin for new wheels and tires, or live in an area where aftermarket wheels are an added risk to one's vehicle (or life, even). It also allows the use of components such as brake pads which are designed for high-performance applications. I have another browser window open as we speak, ordering parts.

Already gave you a plus, Will---too bad I can't give you another, nice work. One for Kohburn as well.

[This message has been edited by Vonov (edited 06-09-2006).]

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doublec4
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Report this Post06-16-2006 11:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
Ok so I'm definitely doing this swap.

I want to start collecting the parts, but I need a complete parts list.

I read through the entire thread and got somewhat overloaded with info along the way...

I'd like to use the S10 calipers upfront... so those work with Kohburn's brackets right? Then its caddy calipers in the rear with Kohburn's bracket thats been rotated 5 degrees...

From what I understand, this totally elimates the need for new brake lines in the front and back and the ebrake hardware from the caddy caliper is retained with no problems...

I'm also gonna need to have my front hub/rotor "aparted" and lebaron rear vented rotors will be purchased... Do the rotors need to be modified?

What other hardware is needed in terms of bolts, washers, spacers (I'm confused on the whole spacer thing)

Sorry for the questions, I know its probably been covered but I'm looking for sort of a final draft of what exactly is needed. There is a lot of info in this thread with different opinions and methods. I'm looking to do this straightforward... I'm a newb at brakes

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Report this Post06-16-2006 12:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ScytheClick Here to Email ScytheSend a Private Message to ScytheDirect Link to This Post
I'm with doublec4 on this one. Anyone have a compilation of what is needed and who makes brackets, etc?
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Report this Post06-16-2006 01:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PyrthianClick Here to Email PyrthianSend a Private Message to PyrthianDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Vonov:

Just finished reading this thread. Absolutely amazing. What I particularly like about this upgrade, is that it uses parts that are likely to be around for years to come, generally less expensive than Fiero equivalents, and still allows the use of factory or factory-size wheels


I didnt think it would work with stock 14" wheels.
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Report this Post06-16-2006 01:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tesmith66Send a Private Message to tesmith66Direct Link to This Post
VERY interested in a set of rear brackets...

------------------
1986 SE 350 V8

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Report this Post06-16-2006 01:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ScytheClick Here to Email ScytheSend a Private Message to ScytheDirect Link to This Post
The details of all that is needed is in Will's post at the end of the 5th page. It's in all quotes.

As for brackets, who [still] makes them?
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doublec4
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Report this Post06-18-2006 02:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
I've got money in hand ready to send to someone who can make the required brackets. (The fronts and the newly revised rear ones that fix the ebrake problem / longer brake hose problem)

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Will
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Report this Post06-18-2006 09:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
The fronts are available from the traditional sources... Archie, WCF, etc.
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Report this Post06-19-2006 09:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for VonovClick Here to Email VonovSend a Private Message to VonovDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Pyrthian:


I didnt think it would work with stock 14" wheels.


Sorry, I was referring to the use of stock Formula wheels. No slight intended to our less robust-wheeled brethren...
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Report this Post06-20-2006 12:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
hmmm ok,

is anybody here, such as Kohburn, willing to make these brackets for me? I'll probably take the design to a machine shop and see what kind of a price I can get on them, but maybe somebody wants to make a few bucks...

let me know.

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Report this Post06-20-2006 11:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KohburnSend a Private Message to KohburnDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by GODFATHER:

Do you guys feel that the back brakes are still delayed from this upgrade . I feel the difference with braking but still feels like the frts are working more then the rear or grabbing faster . I read in another post that some people take a seal out of the prop valve to let the rears do more work . Is this true and does it work ?
Thanks
Joe


yes since the brakes are the same size as eachother the stock proportioning will still be in effect and needs improvement - removing the seal will result in a 50/50 brake split

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Report this Post06-20-2006 11:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KohburnSend a Private Message to KohburnDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by doublec4:

Ok so I'm definitely doing this swap.

I want to start collecting the parts, but I need a complete parts list.

I read through the entire thread and got somewhat overloaded with info along the way...

I'd like to use the S10 calipers upfront... so those work with Kohburn's brackets right? Then its caddy calipers in the rear with Kohburn's bracket thats been rotated 5 degrees...

From what I understand, this totally elimates the need for new brake lines in the front and back and the ebrake hardware from the caddy caliper is retained with no problems...

I'm also gonna need to have my front hub/rotor "aparted" and lebaron rear vented rotors will be purchased... Do the rotors need to be modified?

What other hardware is needed in terms of bolts, washers, spacers (I'm confused on the whole spacer thing)

Sorry for the questions, I know its probably been covered but I'm looking for sort of a final draft of what exactly is needed. There is a lot of info in this thread with different opinions and methods. I'm looking to do this straightforward... I'm a newb at brakes



no need for s10 calipers since they are the same as the 85 cadillac seville fronts that you need the 85 cadillac rears anyways..

the first version of my redesigned bracket has a small interfierence between the brake pad and the stock brake bracket.. I got around it by using a die grinder to knock about 3/8" of the corner of the pad off (took all of 2 minutes)

the second version is ment to fix that problem but has not been tested to my knowledge

item of note: this arangement places the caliper upside down from stock so I bleed them before installing

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Report this Post06-20-2006 11:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tesmith66Send a Private Message to tesmith66Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Kohburn:


yes since the brakes are the same size as eachother the stock proportioning will still be in effect and needs improvement - removing the seal will result in a 50/50 brake split


What seal? Someone please post pictures...

------------------
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Report this Post06-20-2006 11:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KohburnSend a Private Message to KohburnDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tesmith66:


What seal? Someone please post pictures...



here ya go
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Report this Post06-20-2006 12:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PyrthianClick Here to Email PyrthianSend a Private Message to PyrthianDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Kohburn:


here ya go


yikes! I'm still not convinced that other passage exists, but it does makes more sense that any previous guesses on the prop valve function.
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Report this Post06-20-2006 11:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rjblazeClick Here to Email rjblazeSend a Private Message to rjblazeDirect Link to This Post
Wil, Kohburn....You guys did a great job with this thread....kudos for all the great information! I understand all the parts required (great lists) and most of the installation requirements. Just a few things are puzzling me even after reading the entire thread three times. What are you referring to as the 7/16 - NF thread bolts of 1.0" and 1.5" long? Are you talking about the caliper bracket-to-knuckle/spindle bolts, or the caliper-to-caliper bracket bolts? I think you mean the bracket-to-knuckle/spindle bolts right? I have seen the Zettner plans and even printed them to scale (also noting your corrections). If I download your cad files onto a CD, do you think my local machinist friend could just download the information onto his CNC machine and mill the out?
Would it be possible to get a hardcopy (e-mailed or faxed) of these breacket plans (fronts, rears-2 and -3)?

Godfather.....you are very local to me (Saucon Valley - Bethlehem). Any chance of getting together to discuss this? Who made your brackets?

Thanks Guys
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Report this Post06-21-2006 08:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KohburnSend a Private Message to KohburnDirect Link to This Post
yes the caliper bracket to knuckle bolts - we did it this way because unless the shop taps the brackets for you then you need to buy a tap... so then you can tap the knuckles the same thread - the calliper bolts are 7/16 NF ( 7/16-20 )

any CNC shop will be able to work with the dxf files to give you a quote
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Report this Post06-21-2006 10:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
Talking about the rears, right?
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Report this Post06-21-2006 11:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rjblazeClick Here to Email rjblazeSend a Private Message to rjblazeDirect Link to This Post
I am asking about both the front and rears. So this means you are tapping the holes in the rear knuckle and front spindles to the same thread as the caliper-to-bracket slide bolt thread size.

Thanks Kohburn
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Report this Post06-21-2006 12:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
Negative.
No tapping is necessary on the front spindles.
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Report this Post06-21-2006 05:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
Ok, not to beat a dead horse BUT I'm learning as I go along and I want to be 100% sure...

This is the list of stuff I have to get:

Front/Rear Calipers from an 85 Cadillac Seville
89-94 Lebaron Rear Rotors Vented
10 Wheel Studs (610 - 323)
.060 Spacer (x4) -----> same thickness as a standard 1/4" washer
1.00"OD x .50"ID x .435 thick Spacer (x4)
Kohburn Front Caliper Brackets
Kohburn Rear Caliper Brackets (I think I'm going to try the brackets that were rotated 5 degrees)

Is there anything missing from that list? (I know theres something about caliper bolts I think?)

Then of course I need to get the front hub/rotor assembly "aparted." Are there any measurements I need to know when bringing them to the machine shop? Where do they get aparted exactly?

Also, the wheel studs.. how do those go in? Are the old ones knocked out of the hub or something?

Do the lebaron rotors need to be modified at all?

Do the brake pads need to be modified at all to fit?

I'm a little confused with the ebrake stuff as well. With the new brackets, the rear caliper sits upside down? Does this eliminate the need for the ebrake bracket of the old Zettner kit? Will I need anything special to hook up the ebrake to the rear caliper?

If someone could answer some of these questions I would appreciate it. I have read through this thread several times now but I'm still confused with some of the info. Everyone seems to have their own method or modifications and I'm new at this. Thanks for the being patient.


------------------

[This message has been edited by doublec4 (edited 06-21-2006).]

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Will
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Report this Post06-21-2006 05:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
With the OLD brackets, the rear calipers were switched L for R and used upside down. Kohburn's new bracket design fixes that.

Kohburn's 10 degree rotation fixes the problem mentioned above, but creates a need to slightly clearance the pad. The 5 degree rotation should eliminate that, but has not been tested yet.

The rotors do not require modification.

The old lug studs will press or hammer out of the hub flanges and the new ones can be drawn in with a lug nut. Apply some high strength loctite to be sure.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 06-21-2006).]

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doublec4
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Report this Post06-21-2006 06:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
Awesome thanks! + for sure

SO my list is complete then? What about the bolts that attach the caliper to the brackets to the knuckle/spindle? Do they come with the caliper? and is it only the rear that has to be tapped?

Sorry for all the questions but... do the brackets need tapping at all? and will a machine shop do that?

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Report this Post06-21-2006 10:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JefrysukoSend a Private Message to JefrysukoDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by doublec4:

I'm a little confused with the ebrake stuff as well. With the new brackets, the rear caliper sits upside down? Does this eliminate the need for the ebrake bracket of the old Zettner kit? Will I need anything special to hook up the ebrake to the rear caliper?


You do not need the E-brake bracket that Zettner designed no matter what caliper bracket you use. The original bracket places the brake cable to close to the CV boot for my liking. The 10* one causes some interference with the pads. I would recomend using the 5* one though as it looks like the best solution until you tell us otherwise.

You will need to make sure to get calipers with all of the hardware attached to them for attaching the cable. I bought "loaded" ones which came with this hardware. Your stock Fiero Ebrake cables with work with this hardware.

Don't confuse yourself with the whole upside down stuff. Some people say that Zettner had them upside down because of the brake line attachment. I say the way I mount them is upside down because they are rotated 180* from the Cadillac application which puts the bleeder facing down. Once you get the parts i'm sure you will understand.
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Report this Post06-22-2006 06:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rjblazeClick Here to Email rjblazeSend a Private Message to rjblazeDirect Link to This Post
Bump for information gathering
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Report this Post06-22-2006 12:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
Sounds good so far. I'm going to try the 5* brackets and I'll let everyone know how they work. I'll be doing this in the next two weeks. Thanks guys!

... actually the only thing that I'm still not clear on is the bolts that bolt the calipers/brackets/spindle. What exactly do I need there and what needs to be tapped for what thread?

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Report this Post06-22-2006 12:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KohburnSend a Private Message to KohburnDirect Link to This Post
tap the caliper to adaptor holes 7/16-20 (NF) and then also tap the stock knuckle holes 7/16-20 and get 7/16 bolts the right length to bolt the adaptors on..

the calipers should come with bolts pins
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