Hi Everyone,
I have resently acquired a set of T-Tops that I was planning on installing in my 88. I have been asking about a new set of seals for it with several memeers of the forum and others in the Fiero industry. What I was able to find out was there are none available because the company C&C went out of business. So since there are none, I decided to contact Year One to see if they were interested in making seals for me. They are not, but they did tell me to contact Steel Rubber to see if they had them or would want to make some.
Gentleman and ladies......... they said they were interested in checking it out for us.
So now here is where I need everyone's help. With all of your help and knowledge, we as a Fiero's owners group need to do some research for this company so that they can determine, that if they were to build these seals, would they be able to sell a minimum amount so as to make up for the R&D to create them.
Questions: How many 88 Fieros had t-tops installed?
Does the t-top seal fit just the 88 or is it the same for multiple years?
Can we produce firm orders for the t-top seals, 20 or 30 or more?
They would like to see some really good originals, I'm not sure mine would be good enough, maybe?
Please contact all of the friends you have that you know have T-tops and let them know about this idea. I would be happy to coorinate this effort for us, but I need help to get these answers back to Steel Rubber. I don't know what they will cost but there web site for the fiero doors seals they have seen reasonable to me.
Thanks for the help, with all of your help we may be able to make this happen!
Casper

Put me down for a set.

While you got thier intrest... I think some replacement for the door weatherstripping would be great (the one that surrounds the whole door opening). Also, I would love to see some repro trunk seals (especially GT) if the cost could be brought down. I'm guessing alot of people would like new ones if the price was lower.

Check there web site for what they have now, I thought I saw door seals!
steelrubber.com
Casper

I called steelrubber and the customer service person told me that they don't sell anything for the Fiero.

[This message has been edited by 88formttp (edited 06-22-2005).]

I would be interested in a set too. But what about the CJB issue? Thanks Austin

I am in for a set, depending on price... couple of hundred for a set would be good.

J.

I would take a set too up to 500.00 scott

[This message has been edited by fieroscotty (edited 06-23-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Caspermont: Questions: How many 88 Fieros had t-tops installed?

1252

quote Does the t-top seal fit just the 88 or is it the same for multiple years?

It will fit any year as long as the glass seals are replaced on the earlier year models with the CJB seals

quote Can we produce firm orders for the t-top seals, 20 or 30 or more?

I'll take two sets guaranteed

quote They would like to see some really good originals, I'm not sure mine would be good enough, maybe?

I have one un-used set of original CJB seals that I may be willing to lend to them for reproduction purposes. I'd need some guarantees though.

I would definately be down for a new set of seals

I will be keeping an eye on this thread! I am in for a set or two. The T-roof that I am putting in my Fiero, came from what I thought was an 88 yellow Formula. Then I ran the VIN, only to find out that the Fiero was an 84 clone. Would this T-roof be a CJB roof? What is the differents? I am confused on this.

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WWW.CLEVELANDFIEROS.COM

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/052322.html#lastpost
My rear defuser

Mark me down as interested.

Also. Taken from another thread. There was around 2400 non-cjb t-top Fieros

[This message has been edited by TM_Fiero (edited 06-22-2005).]

I might be interested. Mine are fine now but who knows what the future holds. I am confused though about the different types of seals. While my car is an 87 it has a C&C t-top that was install not to soon after the car was manufactured.

If they can make a CJB and make sure it will work on all other years you will stand a chance of getting these things made.

The more it fits the more demand you will have.

This subject has been thrown around so many times it is getting monotonous. I think you better ask them what a run of 30 or 40 seals will cost. I am betting $15,000 to $25,000. The reason they can sell other products cheap is because of the volume they sell. They won't be interested unless you have a lot of cash up front. There just isn't enough interest, or more to the point, isn't enough people willing to cough up the cash it would cost to buy repro seals for Fiero t-tops.

I too could have had them remanufactured when I had a brand new set of seals to work with but to make it feasible they would have ended up $1000 a set. That is AU dollars so about $760 US. Would you pay that? I know I would and a few others would but the general concensus is and always has been bad. Comments like I'll pay $200 for a set if they are availabe is common place. The reason Fiero repros and Fiero parts vendors are slowly disappearing is exactly that reason. Too many people think just because it is old it should be cheap. It was cheap in the 80s, now it isn't.

Good luck, but I don't like your chances of getting it done.

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quote Originally posted by Caspermont: Gentleman and ladies......... they said they were interested in checking it out for us.

As Aus said, and....

I contacted them a few years back regarding making door seals, and fastback seals. They told me that they'd need to make 10s of thousands of them to make it profitable enough for them to do it. Think you could get every T-top owner out there to buy.... 5 sets?

Thanks to everyone for the reply's.
I started a spreadsheet to keep track of the members that say they want a set if I can make this happens.
I would like some of the more knowledgeable members to explain to the rest of us about the history of the T-tops related to non-CJB seals and CJB seals.

Non-CJB seals were for non- factory installed T-TOPS for 85,86, 87? what years?
CJB seals were for C&C T-tops only? and only factory installed T-Tops?
How did this all work? does anyone know?
Casper

The CJB seals will work on all Fiero t-tops if they are used in conjunction with the seals on the actual t-top sections themselves. Basically it needs to be a complete 4 piece kit to work on all cars.

Well the repops for t-tops for other cars are in the $400 neghborhood. I would pay that for a new reproduction, CJB or otherwise. As Aus says, as long as you reproduce the t-top side seal it doesn't matter which one you use.

Count me in if the price is reasonable......

quote Originally posted by Tytehead: Count me in if the price is reasonable......

What he said.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

ILL TAKE A SET

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About 2400 non cjb kits were made (installed in 84-88)
About 1200 cjb kits were made (installed in 88's only)

Both kits were the same except for a slight difference in the seals used.

You could put me down for a set of NON CJB seals

about 2 years ago, a guy came on the forum and tried to do the same thing that you are doing. He was not a fiero owner, but wanted to make some cash having these made. He has had other hard to find seals for other other cars made by an overseas company, whith great results and reasonable prices. He gave me deposit on a set of almost mint non-cjb seals that I had. I also sent him a set of unusable seals that they could cut into. Turns out that the company couldn't (or wouldn't) do it for him, even though he had workded with them many times in the past.. The fiero seals were rather complex.

So, I wish you luck. Put me down for a set if they are reasonably priced.

I have the pre-CBJ T-Tops on my 84, and the window seal is all but gone on the drivers side. I would like a full 4 set of seals. If CBJ works on the older T-Tops, I am all for replacing what is shot on mine. Thanks for your half full glass efforts, count me in for a full set.

I have seven T-Top cars (and counting) so I would buy a few new sets of seals.

I wish you the best of luck, this will not be cheap. If you do end up making the roof seals make the "CJB" ones, Why?

1st. The "CJB" guys will not want a non-original looking part plus you will need the head liner lock moldings to go with the non-CJB, I do not have these they are sold out. The non-CJB guys will not care as long as the glass seals are aval.

2nd. You would not need the have the glass "CJB" seals made, I have about 250 pairs and only about 40 pair of the non-CJB

3rd. A "CJB" owner is more likely to pay the price for the right seals.

Good luck

[This message has been edited by fieroparts.com (edited 06-23-2005).]

Just to let everyone know!
We are at 17 sets of seals if I can make this happen. I would like to be at over 20 before I continue the research with them.
I still need to hear back from Rich at Aldino kit cars to see if he is interested and will be talking to the Fiero Store on tuesday to see if they are interested.
I will also ask how and when they might be available and the cost.
From the postings, I believe I would be asking them to build an FULL SET (4 seals) of the CJB type because that would fit on all of the t-tops out there.

Let me know if I have this wrong.

Casper

You can put me down for a set.

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Chris

3.4 TDC SWAP COMPLETED...this is going to be a fun car

"Hyper and Fiero Parts" kinda hit it on the head, If a company wants to make money (which one doesn't) they are better off making the CJB's (1)those owners would pay for it and (2)in turn the 84-87 Non-CJB's would want the better seal design as well, because let's BE HONEST HERE, if the old seals were a perfect design and leak proof, they Wouldn't have revised them. So this is what should be made CJB's. Hope it happens! .

Add me to your list. One set CJB

Fieroparts is dead on with his comment. (IMHO)

quote Originally posted by fieroparts.com: I wish you the best of luck, this will not be cheap. If you do end up making the roof seals make the "CJB" ones, Why? 1st. The "CJB" guys will not want a non-original looking part plus you will need the head liner lock moldings to go with the non-CJB, I do not have these they are sold out. The non-CJB guys will not care as long as the glass seals are aval. 2nd. You would not need the have the glass "CJB" seals made, I have about 250 pairs and only about 40 pair of the non-CJB 3rd. A "CJB" owner is more likely to pay the price for the right seals. Good luck

I would love a complete new set. So I'll reply as I have in other threads conerning this. I too wish you the best of luck in making this happen.

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87 Fiero GT
White / Blue Pearl
T-Top, 3400 Turbo, 11.25" brakes
Whaletail, Mecham Scoops, ZR1 Scoop
T/A Fender Vents, Much Much More

86 SE Red
86 SE Gold
Formerly FieroGT87
My build Thread: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/036679.html

I'll bite also, mine are in great shape, but you never know. I wish you good luck with this, As others have said, others have tried and failed. I know of three t-tops that need seals in my area alone. 2 are nonCJB and the other is a CJB

I got some additional information from Ray from Fierottops.com. I thought you might like to read it.

Hi Casper,

I heard you were looking for me. I guess you found me. Sorry about stopping my fierottop.com email address but I had to due to SPAM.

Regarding the T-Top seals, C&C first made the T-Tops as a kit released in, I believe April 1984. This kit continued to be offered through the 1988 model year. I don't know for sure when it stopped.

After much negotiation, Pontiac offered the T-Top as a standard option (CJB) but presumably for liability issues, the option had to be ordered, and paid for, directly from C&C by the dealer. With this done, the intended T-Top would be made as a hard top by the factory, then directly shipped to C&C for the conversion. Pontiac took care of the logistics. As far as the customer knew, the car came "from the factory" with T-Tops.

Although I have not personally seen the kit seals, I am told that they pick up at the top of the pillars , just sealing the T-Top glass. The seals installed by C&C at the factory, were complete seals going down the sides of the car glass. Apparantly the factory found this to be faster for them to install. This being the case, the CJB seals will work on all T-Tops where the non-CJB seals will only work on the T-Tops which were installed as kits.

As you know, these seals are all gone.

I thought everyone might find the history useful! It looks like the CJB seals will work for everyone!
Casper

quote Originally posted by Caspermont: I got some additional information from Ray from Fierottops.com. I thought you might like to read it. Hi Casper, I heard you were looking for me. I guess you found me. Sorry about stopping my fierottop.com email address but I had to due to SPAM. Regarding the T-Top seals, C&C first made the T-Tops as a kit released in, I believe April 1984. This kit continued to be offered through the 1988 model year. I don't know for sure when it stopped. After much negotiation, Pontiac offered the T-Top as a standard option (CJB) but presumably for liability issues, the option had to be ordered, and paid for, directly from C&C by the dealer. With this done, the intended T-Top would be made as a hard top by the factory, then directly shipped to C&C for the conversion. Pontiac took care of the logistics. As far as the customer knew, the car came "from the factory" with T-Tops. Although I have not personally seen the kit seals, I am told that they pick up at the top of the pillars , just sealing the T-Top glass. The seals installed by C&C at the factory, were complete seals going down the sides of the car glass. Apparantly the factory found this to be faster for them to install. This being the case, the CJB seals will work on all T-Tops where the non-CJB seals will only work on the T-Tops which were installed as kits. As you know, these seals are all gone. I thought everyone might find the history useful! It looks like the CJB seals will work for everyone! Casper

Some of this is not correct. Who sent you that email?

So tell us which parts are not entirely correct!

I'm very interested in knowing all about this history because it may help the supplier in making the T-top seals for us!

Casper

i will buy a complete CJB set, but it has to be a complete 4 piece set. i have a non-cjb car, but would like the cjb sets because they have nicer t-top section seals

test

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My 1985 Fiero GT

Doing the CJB seals is more than likely the way to go.

If they are reasonably priced, you could sell alot of seals to all fiero t-top owners. Many (like me who have good current seals on our cars) would buy a back up set. If the price gets rather high, only the people in dier need, or the true purest, will buy them. The vast majority of us who have useable seals on our cars now would just wait.

The question is, what is that "readonable" price? $200-$400? $400-$500?? I don't know. If we are talking on the lower end, I would even buy 2 sets!!

quote Originally posted by Caspermont: So tell us which parts are not entirely correct! I'm very interested in knowing all about this history because it may help the supplier in making the T-top seals for us! Casper

John,

"Although I have not personally seen the kit seals, I am told that they pick up at the top of the pillars , just sealing the T-Top glass. The seals installed by C&C at the factory, were complete seals going down the sides of the car glass. Apparantly the factory found this to be faster for them to install. This being the case, the CJB seals will work on all T-Tops where the non-CJB seals will only work on the T-Tops which were installed as kits."

The seals went all the way up and down just like the the CJB seals.

Is Casper just a nick name?

Tim

[This message has been edited by fieroparts.com (edited 01-26-2006).]