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| I was contacted by author, now writing a Fiero book. Needs our help. (Page 1/4) |
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CoolBlue87GT
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NOV 24, 02:10 AM
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I was contacted by author of the "All Corvette Colors", now writing a Fiero book. He is inquiring about Fiero Production grid I posted January 11, 2002. Does anyone know who compiled that grid ? I will send him a link to this post.
This is the 2002 post: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...020511-1-013459.html
Below is the email I received.
Hello CoolBlue87GT,
I saw your email address on Pennock's Fiero Forum. I am also a Pennock's member. I apologize for the intrusion.
I write to you because you posted a Fiero Production grid for all Fiero years in a January 11, 2002 post to the thread entitled "1988 Fiero Production Numbers."
That grid is very, very interesting (to me, at least).
That grid identified the 1986 experimental colors and the 1988 experimental colors. I have the Pontiac production data sheets for those years, and the experimental color totals in the grid are spot-on correct.
That grid also identified two (2) experimental colors for 1987. To me, that would indicate that whomever compiled that grid must have had access to a 1987 Pontiac report which broke down specific RPOs. I suspect that the 1987 information on that grid is correct.
A few posts later, in the same thread, you mentioned that you did not compile that grid, but that found it "a few months back."
Did you ever discover who compiled that grid? If so, could you forward their name or other contact information to me? Any lead would help.
I know your post is from almost 16 years ago, but, for me, it's worth contacting you in the hopes that you might know who compiled that grid.
(I am the author of the "All Corvette Colors" series of fact books available on Amazon and I am now working on a Fiero fact book.)
Thank you for your help.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Sincerely,
Robert Casey, Los Angeles, California
If anyone know who compiled the list, please post, thank you.
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fierosound
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NOV 24, 09:05 AM
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Raydar
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NOV 24, 11:12 AM
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Also check out Mark Corbin's "Fiero Spotter's Guide". (I'm not sure if it's still in production or not. I've had my copy forever.)
I don't recall it mentioning any experimental colors, however.
http://captfiero.com/fsg
For what it's worth, I have seen a 1985 SE, painted in the 1987 blue metallic. It was a GM experimental car, and the RPO tags reflect that.
The car is currently at the Fiero Factory (TFF Auto) in Toney Alabama.[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 11-24-2017).]
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IMSA GT
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NOV 24, 11:15 AM
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As mentioned above, Witzenburg had a similar list in his book:
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CoolBlue87GT
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NOV 24, 11:42 PM
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Thanks for the good information guys, I'll forward this link to the person that contacted me.
Do we have a way to contact Gary Witzenburg and Mark Corbin ? Might be a good thing to get these guys in contact with each other.
If anyone has any other obscure facts about the Fiero that you'd like to let this guy know about, post it here.
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GoGoFiero
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NOV 25, 01:57 AM
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Hi CoolBlue87GT,
Wow. A sincere thank you to you, Dave, for this post. Great responses, interest, and information already!
I have spoken on the phone with Mark Corbin, the author of the Fiero Spotter's Guide. He is more into Corvairs now but he said he'd try to find his original source data. (Really nice man.)
Just today, I called Tim Dye at the Pontiac-Oakland Museum in Pontiac, Illinois. (He had in the past given me some production data about the 3rd Gen Firebird. He and his wife, Penny, are great.) As luck would have it, Fred Bartemeyer was there and I spoke with him about Fiero production data. He is not aware of any other data than what is in The Enthusiast's Guide to the Pontiac Fiero book which he co-authored. However, some of the data totals which have been posted on this forum indicate that there must be other Pontiac Fiero production reports floating around out there.
I have also spoken with John Podziemski, Jim Hallman, and Jim Mattision. They have been helpful, but no additional information was found.
I have two main questions:
(1) Where did the 1988 Coupe/Formula color breakout come from?
I surmise that there must have been a Pontiac report with these breakout totals. The Coupe/Formula breakout would be in a Pontiac report entitled, "Option Analysis by Selected UPC Usage," and be subtitled either -W66 or +W66. That is the report I am looking for.
(2) The Fiero production grid (which is linked above to the original thread) correctly indicates experimental color amounts for 1986 and 1988. The grid also indicates an experimental amount for 1987. What report did that 1987 figure come from?
Well, it sure would be great to dig up another Fiero report or two. In today's world of instant communication, taking a photo and texting a photo to a phone or laptop takes only a few seconds.
A big thank you to everyone involved!
Sincerely,
Robert
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fierofool
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NOV 25, 08:52 AM
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I found this, which indicates the number of experimental cars, but it doesn't indicate colors for them.
http://www.fieromontreal.co.../his/production.html
I also found this, but the only image was of the blue PPG car.
“There were six of these specially prepped Fiero GTPs in various experimental PPG pearl metallic colors that made up the PPG Championship Auto Racing Teams (CART) Precision Driving Team,” says Ed York, owner of PPG Fiero GTP No. 6.
Since Autostyle Plastics is no longer in business, we relied upon a brochure, which PPG distributed at track events in 1986 and 1987 to help fill in some details of the cars’ conversions."
Should someone have a copy of that brochure, it may provide the desired information, if the PPG colors were the actual experimental colors for the production Fieros.
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tshark
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NOV 25, 09:19 AM
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Ed and Bart have 2 of the 6 PPG cars, and I believe have that info. The colors of those 2 cars appear to be different, to me. GM was willing to let these cars go, long ago, because GM didn't prep them; they were all PPG interpretations. Several years ago, I ran across a local guy who used to own at least one of the PPG Fieros. I'm not sure there would be any benefit to tracking him down.
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hyperv6
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NOV 25, 09:31 AM
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To the best of my knowledge the colors were pure PPG and had nothing to do with Oo tics on any of the Pace cars.
I was around the cars in the day and have the folder. I need to re read it but PPG was about promoting their product to the public not Pintiac.
The guy incharge of the cars was in Colorado and may have passed away. My FatherIn Law was friends with his brother Ernie and he introduced me to him yeas ago. I also had met him at Mid Ohio in 1985.
He also got us prime vip tickets to the first Brick Yard race
I think if you want to know anything about experimental colors you need to contact or start with John Schinella do GM. He was over the design and would have known any one all colors.
Robert if you want to contact me send a PM on the site and I can give you contact info.
I have been involved with the car since 1980 and a original owner since 1985. I have a large collection of info.
Not sure what all you want but if I can help I would be glad to.
Fred should pop in here at some point he is the king of info and owns 3 different PPG Fietos. He should be able to help too.
But I would say if you want color info it will need to come from GM or a ex Fiero team member.
I have some 1990 Fiero prototype parts and I was lucky after two years to find someone at GM willing to help or could remember. Since the bail out many are gone and some have passed.
The colors for the Fiero were pretty simple and straight forward. The 1980’s were not an era of specialization. Option packages and standard colors were the rule and GM was not much into building much in one off Fieros or many other cars at this time.
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GoGoFiero
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NOV 25, 11:48 PM
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Hello all:
Great work!
tshark:
The GTP cars are very cool. I’ve visited Ed’s site before. http://edsfieros.com/ Very nice. Those six cars were 1985 models, I do believe, and I am focusing on finding the 1987 and 1988 Pontiac production reports, as I have a 1985 Pontiac report and I am good with the 1985 data presented.
However, it would be great to know the PPG paint codes for those six GTP cars. I love that Emerald Green. Were all six colors metallic? I know that Corvette was experimenting with metallic white and black in 1984.
hyperv6:
You are correct. PPG typically painted and fabricated panels for Pace Cars or Track Cars on their own, as a way to promote their product. I can remember most of the PPG cars from the 1980s – especially the 1988 Buick Reatta PPG (CART Series) Track Car painted Root Beer Pearl.
I’m not so much interested in the actual colors, but more interested in Pontiac’s RPO Production reports, which will indicate equipment RPOs, color RPOs, including the experimental color RPO 01U. In Pontiac reports, they used the designator UPC, not RPO. There are two formats of yearly Pontiac reports that I am looking for:
(1) “Options & Accessories” report, likely used in 1984 thru 1987,
and/or
(2) “Option Analysis by Selected UPC Usage” report, likely used in 1987 and 1988.
fierofool:
That chart you’ve linked is a nice find. I have never seen that chart. However, it seems to mirror the grid information which is linked in the first post above. One may have been the source for the other. But, was the original author using Pontiac production reports?
Let’s focus on 1987. Note that 1987 color production does not equal 1987 unit production – there is a 54 unit difference.
This is an interesting difference, as 54 units were the exact amount of 1988 pilot cars built during 1987 production. Is it a coincidence that both 1987 and 1988 had 54 pilot cars? Or were another 54 cars accidentally subtracted from the 1987 production total? (The 1987 production total which we currently agree upon – 46,581 units – already has the 54 units of 1988 pilots subtracted!)
Further, the 1987 chart indicates two Bright Red cars and two experimental color cars. Were they the same two cars?
No matter which chart/grid was compiled first, I suspect that the original author correctly indicated two units of 1987 experimental color cars from his source document. Why? Because the author uses sources which indicate CORRECT totals for both the 1986 AND the 1988 experimental color totals (this I know from Pontiac data). For 1987, there would be no reason for the original author to deviate from his sources. The author of the original compilation must have had access to a 1987 production report, likely the “Option Analysis by Selected UPC Usage” report from 1987.
That is the report which I am trying to find.
I hope we can uncover some new Fiero information - thanks to all!
Best,
Robert
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