pokey, i see that you've accepted todd's misdirected premise,and have decided that, regardless of the actual merits of the original question here - which was yellow's post and my reply to it - i am the issue.
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Originally posted by pokeyfiero: You are mean and degrading because you have a problem.
would you care to engage in fruitless speculation, as todd has done?
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Todd's intentions are not to be mean for no other reason than self satisfaction.
i reject the implication that i am "mean" for no reason other than self-satisfaction, and consider it a shallow reading of the interactions i've had here. on the other hand, of course, my own perception of todd is precisely that he is mean-spirited and self-satisfied. so i'll let you choose which interpretation to take.
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He helps people with the car problems,life problems and financial interests. Now I can't speculate accurately about you in person(off forum) so I won't but Todd I can. Off the Forum he helps anyone that needs it even if they are Democrat or the much feared liberal. I have never heard of him doing anything shady and has the utmost integrity in his affairs(I give exception to political threads online).
so what? his personal life is not at issue here, much as he has tried to make mine the centerpiece of his own argument. most people on a forum don't actually know each other IRL, and have only each other's words to go on. and todd's words consistently offend me (and very much by design on his part), at least as much as my own offend him. i don't have the benefit of his supposed personal chivalry and generosity... i am just one of those people (liberals, etc.) whom he consistently misrepresents and plays his disingenuous power games with. his "real character," whatever it is, is as irrelevant as my own.
I'll bet that would prevent a lot of flame wars. But does someone deserver any credit for pulling a negative post?
I'm not yelling or accusing anyone. Just discussing principles.
i think this is a fair question which steve has a done a good job of answering, but i thought i would emphasize two points. first, that what yellow replaced his original post with:
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Euterpe
you are a peice of work... are you that bored?
doesn't strike me as anything like contrition. and second, that it's an ill-considered and ultimately empty gesture, since his original comment is quote multiple times in the ensuing thread.
doesn't strike me as anything like contrition. and second, that it's an ill-considered and ultimately empty gesture, since his original comment is quote multiple times in the ensuing thread.
I hadn't read his changed post. My comment was only on the aforementioned subject.
Originally posted by Euterpe: if todd, or anyone else, had simply said "you were out of line",
..then it would have made NO difference in your behavior and it would NOT have received the forum wide attention I wanted. And as long as I stand by my words the attention will conttinue to grow. My feedback can handle to onslaught of the odd individual who can't or won't read the entire drama from beginning to end. I've done enough for the Fiero community to be considered of value to the forum regardless of my ...abundance of self confidence. But the fact is that your feedback CAN'T stand the onslaught. you add nothing of value and you hurt people on a personal level. I attack ideas, you attack personalities. It is not as if you are just playing words games with people's handles, God knows I've been called Tardster more times than I can count. But we all accept that as harmless banter. To call someone the things you've come up with in the posts I listed (and that is just a tiny snap shot of what you have posted) is the only thing that is "over the line". When you knock it off then this place will calm down. until then...
That's nice Hugh. You rarely invest anything here or contribute to any subject to any real degree. So how easy and safe to be the well respected member. I don't disagree. I like your occasional post and have no reasons to think anything other than you're respectful individual. I on the other hand I do get involved occasionally so if I just coming off as a jerk sometimes is all I get I will take it. I expect worse. Point is neither of them have any ground to stand on. Fact as I see it.
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Euterpe pokey, i see that you've accepted Todd's misdirected premise,and have decided that, regardless of the actual merits of the original question here - which was yellow's post and my reply to it - i am the issue.
Yellow's post was originally has never crossed my mind. I didn't ever think it really had anything to do with this thread. I do not necessarily accept Todd's premise. I have my own that is just my opinion about you . It parallels his in a way. It doesn't matter as it is just my opinion.
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Euterpe would you care to engage in fruitless speculation, as Todd has done?
As far as fruitless speculation gos I stated I don't know. It isn't important to me to find out the truth. Maybe it would be if I had any ties to you. I try not to waste a lot of time hating on people. It doesn't do either of us any good.
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Euterpe i reject the implication that i am "mean" for no reason other than self-satisfaction, and consider it a shallow reading of the interactions i've had here. on the other hand, of course, my own perception of todd is precisely that he is mean-spirited and self-satisfied. so i'll let you choose which interpretation to take.
Implication? I guess it is an implication. So what. Of course it is shallow. I don't really know you. I thought I made that clear and was fair about it. I have no real picture of you other than what you show here. To be more fair I have seen many posts by you that were seemingly genuine and respectful just not generally so from what I have seen. It has painted a picture.
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Euterpe
so what? his personal life is not at issue here, much as he has tried to make mine the centerpiece of his own argument. most people on a forum don't actually know each other IRL, and have only each other's words to go on. and todd's words consistently offend me (and very much by design on his part), at least as much as my own offend him. i don't have the benefit of his supposed personal chivalry and generosity... i am just one of those people (liberals, etc.) whom he consistently misrepresents and plays his disingenuous power games with. his "real character," whatever it is, is as irrelevant as my own.
More the reason to be nicer while you get used to the regulars here. Sounds kinda like a good old boys network. That is probably something you really detest but it is what it is. Honey or flies. .
If you post more questions I will answer but really I don't care. Hugh can think of me as he will and I imagine his view carries some weight so that matters to me a little. A real little little. But your opinion doesn't at least not now just because I don't like you enough. After a year of posting you will undoubtedly have made a bigger picture to see. I don't have the benefit of knowing you personally to cut you any slack I guess.
I said I didn't want to post in this thread again, but I have been thinking long and hard.Euterpe Pm'd me regarding a part of one of my previous posts.I have considering posting my pm reply to hers..for no other reason than to explain some of my attitudes to everybody here, rather than just Euterpe.I have only gained one rating over all this, and so it might appear that most people who know me here have either given me some slack, because they feel they know there is no harm meant in my posts, as a rule, or have no real firm opinion either way. And so, I have decided to post it, for the sole reason of clarifying MY feelings in general regarding homosexuals. Quote: Euterpe, it is common knowledge that there are quite a few homosexual people on this Forum.I have no intention of revealing their names to justify my comment.That is for them to affirm again.......*** this was in answer to the first line that Euterpe wrote to me, regarding her statement in the thread that she was the only one on the Forum who was 'out' regarding her sexuality****.....
I am in error in some ways, and the most important error I have consistently made is to not clarify the direction of my dislike. To be honest, I don't revile homosexuals per se.The ones I really DO dislike are the ones I choose to refer to as 'Gay'. Homosexuality is ,I am willing to accept, inbuilt in a minority of human beings.I have no axe to grind with those folk.They tend to be the ones who keep their sexuality to themselves, whilst continuing to enjoy it in private.More strength to their relationship. I still don't condone it, but I will rarely come off the wall and actually lambast them for their orientation, if ever. The ones who I thoroughly dislike, and even revile, are what I call the 'plastic' gays..the ones who adopt that orientation because it is considered to be 'hip' in some circles.The ones who blatantly parade their sexuality, or' adopted 'sexuality, to draw attention to themselves for THEM, not their sexual attitude. These people do a terrible mis-service to the genuine homosexuals, and are often equally as despised BY true homosexuals. I have already explained, in previous posts, that Ellie has some long-term friends who are homosexual.I love them wirh all my heart.Not because they are homosexuals, but because of their humanity, kindness and resolute friendship with a man who does not share their sexuality.****.... I have deleted the next sentence or two, because it publicy puts names to faces of Ellie's and my friends , and that is wrong.****..... As I also stated, we have discussed the way I feel about homosexuality, and they do not condemn me.They actually comprehend my feelings, and have gone a long way to clarify the way I felt inside, as a result of things that happened to me in the past. They don't come on to me. They don't act in a 'Gay' way. They love each other, and have done for as long as Ellie and I have been together.They come to spend their holidays with us, and we go out together, and have fun.They drove over 300 miles in a day, just to celebrate the 60th birthday of a man they love. And I have no fear of that love..it will never hurt me. That is , believe it or not, a big thing for me to say. Finally, I would like to say something here, which might go some way to showing that I am not a vindictive person, although sometimes, especially after all the heartache and mental pain I have gone through at the hands of my family since my Mother died, I lose a bit of control, and respond in a somewhat spiteful manner, much to my subsequent dismay.I don't have one single negative rating against anybody here. Some people who contacted me at the first instance of acrimony between us, asked my advice as to whether they should rate you negatively, in support of me. My reply, honestly, was to please not do so. Whether they did or not, I cannot say. But I do not seek, or expect, support from others in that way.I never will. I also consider Toddster to have gone WAY over the top. But, that is Toddster, and all of us who have been here for quite a while, have come to know how he operates. He does a really kind act in helping a young man, whose Father committed suicide, in completing the task his Father had undertaken in conjunction with his son ,until that unfortunate episode ,in restoring his Fiero. Then he goes way over the top here. Something which is truly to be regretted by everyone. And I posted as much, as you will have seen. Anyway, I wear my heart on my sleeve, and when it gets burned, I will hit back....but eventually cool off. But PFF seems to have lost some of its homeliness, which I enjoyed for so long.I am not saying that is due to you, by any means.Yes, your way of posting sometimes gets my back up...but then so do the posts of others too. Perhaps I have outgrown it..who knows? I love many of the people here, don't particularly like the attitude of some, and perhaps have become too dependant on the warmth that shines through, to get me through a hard time in my life.Time, maybe, for me to stand back, look inside myself, and try to put a stop to the trauma implanted in my heart by my Family. I hope you might come to understand me a little better from this communication.The fact that you bothered to PM me has certainly made me feel a bit happier in myself. Nick
I have not posted Euterpe's part of the pm exchange, although it was just a re-iteration of a later post in reply to me,containing a cut and paste of that post,(everybody has probably read it in the thread) and included a polite, brief word of explanation as to why she was sending the pm.
I don't think I have broken any Forum rules by doing this, but I have managed to say what I wanted to long ago, but never got round to.Euterpe has indicated she will reply to my pm in time, and that will remain private between us, as protocol, and my personal integrity requires. Nick
you hurt people on a personal level. I attack ideas, you attack personalities.
this is a particularly pernicious aspect of your tactics. you seem to want to pretend that, by sometimes speaking in generalities, you are somehow innoculated against the offense you cause. never mind that you frequently demean and belittle people yourself, that you habitually make belligerently dishonest semantic arguments simply to claim what you apparently think are debating points, and that your generalizations usually serve to trash entire categories of people.
what you don't like is that i won't play your game. i don't pretend that it's all just cordial disagreement. when i am indirectly insulted, i break the false barrier and make it known.
I hope you might come to understand me a little better from this communication.
thank you, nick.
you and i express our emotions differently, i think, but feel them equally deeply.
as i did mention in my PM to you - and i think i break no confidence in saying this - i will get back to you soon on this topic. there's a lot to cover, and i'm still organizing myself on the subject.
cheers.
[This message has been edited by Euterpe (edited 02-26-2007).]
How can you defend the indefenseable?It doesn't matter how nice someone is in person,quite a few of the people that read this forum and belong to this forum take exception to his remarks.What would his reaction be if someone made those accusations to a female in his family.You can bet he would be damn mad,and rightfully so.Let me quote you:"This whole rape thing is a mistake".You got that right!!!What I believe it does is show his real character.Being new is something everyone does at one time or another,what does that have to do with anything?Another quote:"After all his accustion is just a touchy subject but really not any worse than you calling everybody else stupid" I would rather be called stupid than called liar,which is what toddster did to Euterpe every time he claimed there was a rape. Another quote:"I'm a jerk in person so I try to be a tad nicer here".You're a jerk here too,keep trying!
I can't say more than this except when Toddster uses rating numbers to threaten a newer member that has lower rating numbers he has stooped even lower than before.Does this mean he can make any statement about a new member or older member with a lower rating and rely on his rating to sustain him while the other member is hopefully voted off the island? I hope not!!
Originally posted by hugh: I can't say more than this except when Toddster uses rating numbers to threaten a newer member that has lower rating numbers he has stooped even lower than before.Does this mean he can make any statement about a new member or older member with a lower rating and rely on his rating to sustain him while the other member is hopefully voted off the island? I hope not!!
I agree. I've got about 120 more positive than negative ratings. Toddster has got about 64 more positives than negative. I guess that means I could win if PFF was a Pokemon game.
i can't help but notice that in his last significant response todd did not reiterate his fraudulent claim that the reason my comments have the tone they do is that i must be a rape survivor, and that his assertion is infallible.
it would of course be too much to expect any kind of acknowledgment from such an odious egoist, that he has lied at the top of his virtual lungs for the past week, but i do wonder if he's finally just backed off his line of obviously self-defeating nonsense?
[This message has been edited by Euterpe (edited 02-27-2007).]
Originally posted by Euterpe: yes todd. we all know you're the prom queen, and i'll never be the most popular girl in class.
-pout-
Laugh it off to your demise Euterpe. I have about 90 negative ratings and it took me 6 years to get them. I also manage over 220 positives in the same period.
You have about 45 negative (half as many as me) and it took you just 3 months to acquire them to 20 odd positives (mostly from other trolls trying to prop you up)
Face it, you are on the losing end of this arguement. Either clean up your rhetoric or you'll be banned before Easter at this rate.
Laugh it off to your demise Euterpe. I have about 90 negative ratings and it took me 6 years to get them. I also manage over 220 positives in the same period.
You have about 45 negative (half as many as me) and it took you just 3 months to acquire them to 20 odd positives (mostly from other trolls trying to prop you up)
Face it, you are on the losing end of this arguement. Either clean up your rhetoric or you'll be banned before Easter at this rate.
poor todd... has lost the actual argument, and is reduced to arguing popularity.
the other thing that's been interesting in watching todd's crash and burn is the effective disintegration of his self-serving claims of being some kind of forum champion. more than one person he has cited in his rants about my own behavior has either stated that he's misrepresented the exchange, that they don't need his feudal sense of overlordship, or that he's gone totally overboard with what is clearly not a righteous crusade at all... but really, quite simply, a vendetta.
notice also his thorough dismissal of anyone who would take any position against him - regardless of any actual direct support of me or not - as a troll.
talk about a bunker mentality. i expect that he fidgets with ball bearings and mutters menacingly about stolen strawberries, too.
I also consider Toddster to have gone WAY over the top. But, that is Toddster, and all of us who have been here for quite a while, have come to know how he operates. He does a really kind act in helping a young man, whose Father committed suicide, in completing the task his Father had undertaken in conjunction with his son ,until that unfortunate episode ,in restoring his Fiero.
Nick the lesson of this event should be clear but I see it needs clarification. I am a DOER not a talker. There are lots of people who TALK about how they would like to go out there and do something with their lives and never do. I admit that I have a curt way of speaking but it is only because I have run into more than my fair share of corpulant donut eating talkers in my life who speak with authority about how things should be done without ever having done a damn thing in their lives. It makes my blood boil! I have no time for these people and make that clear. I do not empathize with their self inflicted problems, I do not have compassion for their lack of motivation, I do not care that they don't have the kahunas to go out and make something happen with their lives. If they don't have these characteristics that is fine, as long as they don't pretend they DO.
When Euterpe started verbally assualting everyone on the forum I didn't waste a minute jumping in her face. I am a doer. She can sit there and cry foul that my tactics were too mean (boo hoo). But it does not change history. I've posted her comments for all to see. She started the **** fight, I'm ending it.
One person here asked me in a PM why I bother. She's just a ***** so why don't you ignore her and just leave the trash can. And the answer is that in my life I have learned that the guy who keeps the fight up longest wins. That attitude has given me success in business, the pursuit of relationships, completion of projects, and satisfaction in most other aspects of my life. The result is that I have the respect of my collegues, The loyalty of my clients, the love of a good woman, two children that are more beautiful and more wonderful than any other kids on the planet, and happiness. I like my life. I find the mission of building-up good people like Jeremy (the young man mentioned above) an important element of that life. But I also find the mission of tearing down trolls and defeating evil in this world JUST as important. I approach BOTH missions with equal passion and tenacity.
I hope that reconciles the apparent disconnect bewteen the two scenarios.
My mission here is simple, Euterpe's personal attacks will end. I will achieve that objective. Period. She will either voluntarily do so or I will draw enough attention to the problem to have the rest of the forum unite against her with their right to rate her off PFF. Either way I don't care, but she WILL knock it off.
poor todd... has lost the actual argument, and is reduced to arguing popularity.
We're projecting again Euterpe.
Try as you might you can't make this about my methods. The arguement is about your personal attacks, always has been, always will be. And I will continue to point that out as we go. And in the end, your arrogance is going to get you banned. It's your choice, stay and play nice, or go down for the sake of your lonely pride.
i notice that you've tacitly conceded just about everything else of substance that you've been ranting about for the past week.
as far as i'm concerned, you've lost. you are free to continue to post meaningless chest-beating here, and i will happily dance with you 'til the cows come home. but you've blown it, and you know it, and all you've got left is your manufactured outrage... which, because it's actually fake, i have no doubt you can squeeze out like playdoh.
The arguement is about your personal attacks, always has been, always will be.
you are an inveterate liar.
do you defend yellow's original post? do you plainly assert that my original reply to it was actually unwarranted? do you insist that the only reason i might have commented in such a way is because i am a rape survivor?
you over-reached yourself, badly. admit that and maybe we can have an adult discussion about forum etiquette... mine and yours. but until then, you're just being a weasel.
Another good reason why the rating system is flawed
It makes me wonder...why is the ratings bar visible? What purpose does it serve? Wouldn't it be just as effective if only the person saw their ratings bar, and could decide for themself if they need to tone it down? It might eliminate the possibility that people start piling on negatives.
lol it was a joke, but since i don't like someone on pennocks here should i start calling the intire forum a septic tank, and then sue every member here like u? lol
lol it was a joke, but since i don't like someone on pennocks here should i start calling the intire forum a septic tank, and then sue every member here like u? lol
I'll give you a little credit here. At least you didn't call me a fag.
Originally posted by Toddster: But I also find the mission of tearing down trolls and defeating evil in this world JUST as important. I approach BOTH missions with equal passion and tenacity.
Talk about an overblown sense of his own worth.
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My mission here is simple, Euterpe's personal attacks will end. I will achieve that objective. Period. She will either voluntarily do so or I will draw enough attention to the problem to have the rest of the forum unite against her with their right to rate her off PFF. Either way I don't care, but she WILL knock it off.
Captain Ahab thinks you may be obsessing just a bit much.
even though I have been slammed by a few people here, I wrote what I thought of Britteny as I see it. I posted it in Off topic . I do not see what I posted any worse than what alot of others have posted, including pictures of girls or wives semi dressed.
I posted my own opinion and did not ask for others.. If I offended you, I am sory. I cannot take it back, but I still feel the same about Ms. Spears as I posted.
I did not nor have I intentionally went after anyone on this thread. I removed my post simply to not inflict any more hatred or anger amongst the crowd here.
Originally posted by pokeyfiero: That is funny. I was thinking the same thing a couple days ago. I had an idea of posting" You know it's bad when the trash can needs a trashcan."
Seriously, we get it. PFF is the house. RFT is the sewer. And you're the guy going around telling everyone about the **** you just took.
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Originally posted by fierobear:
You're right. I've been getting waaaay too pissed-off and making too much noise about this. It's time to let it go. My apologies to Cliff and the folks at PFF. I'm done with it.
Originally posted by pokeyfiero: That is funny. I was thinking the same thing a couple days ago. I had an idea of posting" You know it's bad when the trash can needs a trashcan."
.gif)
