O.K. Ski........................I'm not trying to bash another vender, I'm just saying that myself and "Kev" got the same mounts at the same time and while he hasnt seen trouble yet, eveyone witnessed my front one bend as soon as it was mounted ??????
Just proving time and again the inferiority, inconsistency, and poor customer service from WCF. I also learned that you got your mounts back when ERIC was still with West Coast, in which he was the one building them and has since said himself "all that is left working there is a bunch of drunks that don't give a crap anymore"
HERE'S THE SKINNY : I installed these back when the car was built last year at this time. The front mount was repaired right after it folded over and them installed them. The car has only seen 1,900 miles of which I raced 2 Mustangs, 1 Viper, 1 Mazda, and NO TRACK TIME. It has yet to be taken to the the strip for a 1/4 mile run. I would say these mounts have seen 1/3 of the miles being driven hard. The other 2/3 came from driving to Omaha and to Michigan etc. You would think they would be able to stand up to a high horsepower motor for longer than 1,900 miles.
Not trying to bash another vendor... Thats rich.
First off, thank you to all those who have kept this from being such a one sided thread.
So PR, Aura when did you call WCF and tell them about the problem? What did they say to you to try to make it right? Did PR or KEV let them know (with pictures) what the problem was? Was WCF part of "everyone" that saw the engine mount bend?
Oh wait, Kev doesn't have any problems with the WCF urethane mounts.
There are people who DO run the mounts AND HAVE TRACK TIME. No problems with the mounts. There are people who are running the mounts and do run them against fast cars. We see them at our BBQ, you would think they would say something about their mounts bending like paper clips. When they put the engine in.
Is it possible to have a failure? Sure, few things made by hand are ever 100% correct. Machine made things are closer but have been known to fail as well. I've even sent out an 88 engine mount by mistake instead of 84-87. The bolt patterns are less than a 1/2 inch different. That person called me up, described the problem, I realized what happened and he sent me the wrong mount back while I sent him the correct mount free of charge and we paid the shipping to Canada. Problem solved. If you had a mount bend over on you I would have been very curious to see what would bend something over like that. You would have been asked to send it back so that it can be checked out. You would have been sent another mount in the same fashion. Being that this is the first time I've heard of it, and that you don't have them available, and that you didn't take any pictures of them, its going to remain a mystery why hundreds of people's mounts are doing fine on their hard driven Fieros as well as in more than a few 4.9 V8s, 3.4 Twin Cam Turbos and a 3.8 Turbo/Supercharged (on the same engine.) without failure.
MstangsBware, it really is a silly notion that if someone doesn't have their track times posted on the forum that they have never been on the track. It didn't really happen unless someone posts it? You mean I've never been to a track with my Fiero? Never been to a drag strip? Do you have an e-mail where EVERYONE can send you their slips so that it can be documented as real? C'mon!
Nothing can be corrected if the problem is not stated. If there is a problem with quality control, it doesn't help if WCF doesn't know about it except when it comes here on the forum. It disrupts the communication process that is supposed to be there between customer and vendor.
Besides, if the design of WCF mounts are so bad PR, then why are you copying them so closely?
I use the WCF mounts and had absolutley no problems with fitment or reliability. And i dog the hell out of my car at the track. I was happy enough with them that i bought a set for my lil bro to do his conversion. Not adding fuel to any fire jus my experiences with WCF.
First off, thank you to all those who have kept this from being such a one sided thread.
So PR, Aura when did you call WCF and tell them about the problem? What did they say to you to try to make it right? Did PR or KEV let them know (with pictures) what the problem was? Was WCF part of "everyone" that saw the engine mount bend?
Oh wait, Kev doesn't have any problems with the WCF urethane mounts.
There are people who DO run the mounts AND HAVE TRACK TIME. No problems with the mounts. There are people who are running the mounts and do run them against fast cars. We see them at our BBQ, you would think they would say something about their mounts bending like paper clips. When they put the engine in.
Is it possible to have a failure? Sure, few things made by hand are ever 100% correct. Machine made things are closer but have been known to fail as well. I've even sent out an 88 engine mount by mistake instead of 84-87. The bolt patterns are less than a 1/2 inch different. That person called me up, described the problem, I realized what happened and he sent me the wrong mount back while I sent him the correct mount free of charge and we paid the shipping to Canada. Problem solved. If you had a mount bend over on you I would have been very curious to see what would bend something over like that. You would have been asked to send it back so that it can be checked out. You would have been sent another mount in the same fashion. Being that this is the first time I've heard of it, and that you don't have them available, and that you didn't take any pictures of them, its going to remain a mystery why hundreds of people's mounts are doing fine on their hard driven Fieros as well as in more than a few 4.9 V8s, 3.4 Twin Cam Turbos and a 3.8 Turbo/Supercharged (on the same engine.) without failure.
MstangsBware, it really is a silly notion that if someone doesn't have their track times posted on the forum that they have never been on the track. It didn't really happen unless someone posts it? You mean I've never been to a track with my Fiero? Never been to a drag strip? Do you have an e-mail where EVERYONE can send you their slips so that it can be documented as real? C'mon!
Nothing can be corrected if the problem is not stated. If there is a problem with quality control, it doesn't help if WCF doesn't know about it except when it comes here on the forum. It disrupts the communication process that is supposed to be there between customer and vendor.
Besides, if the design of WCF mounts are so bad PR, then why are you copying them so closely?
Perhaps too close legally.
Another WCF Nazi
The mount that bent is actually in the first pic, it has a 3/8 plate welded to it for repair.
The ones I re-engineered and am producing are different in many ways, too close legelly ???...............piss-off
I have MANY requests for these simply due to the fact of WCF reputation........................need I say anymore.
MstangsBware, it really is a silly notion that if someone doesn't have their track times posted on the forum that they have never been on the track. It didn't really happen unless someone posts it? You mean I've never been to a track with my Fiero? Never been to a drag strip? Do you have an e-mail where EVERYONE can send you their slips so that it can be documented as real? C'mon!
Perhaps too close legally.
Just stating on how I saw the post, I really could care less. Of course I have an E-mail but since there is already an offical post on the Forum for 1/4 mile times that would probally be a better place to post them.
[This message has been edited by MstangsBware (edited 03-20-2004).]
Here are the pictures of the bad mounts, they illustrate their flaws. Please note that these are brand new stock GM mounts that the WCF poly mounts are being compared to. The GM mounts fit perfectly, but the west coast mounts would not work without major modifications. I paid west coast for mounts that would be "bolt in" not a raw baseline to mod and rework... but enough of that, i'll let the photos speak for themselves.
EDIT: i can't post these pix for some reason... can i email them to somebody that can post them?
Here are the pictures of the bad mounts, they illustrate their flaws. Please note that these are brand new stock GM mounts that the WCF poly mounts are being compared to. The GM mounts fit perfectly, but the west coast mounts would not work without major modifications. I paid west coast for mounts that would be "bolt in" not a raw baseline to mod and rework... but enough of that, i'll let the photos speak for themselves.
EDIT: i can't post these pix for some reason... can i email them to somebody that can post them?
If you want, send me a PM, I'll send you my email address and I'll post them for ya! I'll even put them in Photoshop and "enhance" them a bit so they load quicker for the good `old 56k users!
Oh yeah, I was there when I saw the original mount bend, too. I've always entertained the idea of ordering something from WCF, but all the horror stories have kinda deterred me...
if i got a nickel for poppin' off every person that bashes WCF, i'd be a rich and happy man with in a month. have a nice day
You are an idiot. Please take your immature bullshit back to the ricer boards where it belongs.
Why is it that everytime a problem with a vendor pops up that the debate stoops to this level? Good luck with your mounts PR if I ever do a 3800 swap I'll call you.
P.S. I've had guns pointed in my face and I'll tell you this; If you put it in my face and aren't prepared to use it, I'll beat you sensless with it.
ANOTHER SMART-ASSED NAZI WHO DOESNT HAVE THE BALLS TO BACK UP THIER BIG MOUTH
i challenged you, so wheres my balls? they're flapping off your chin and you're taking it in YOUR big mouth like a b!tch. dude, you are saying how bad WCF and how there products break and all your Minnesota buddies are backing you up, oh you the big man now(spent a ton of $$$ on a fiero to go fast when a fourth of the $$ in a nova would embarrass you). back to the point, all the talk about the mounts breaking and proof no pic or anything something dont seem right here. you are a shop yourself and you copy another shops DESIGN, all the while bashing them. dude, just come out and say it, you and your buddies are upset about WCF prices and you seen how easily the motor mounts are made so you decided to cash in on it, right, we seeing eye to eye, sucka? lol(no pun intended)
If you take a look at your mounts, then take a look at the following webpages, you can see the parts are IDENTICAL to WCF's parts. Now obviously there was some reason why PR came up with this idea, but anyone that knows steel products knows that 1/4" steel doesn't just "bend like a paperclip". The only way this would have buckled was either...
A) The ass end was lowered, and completely tightened and then the front was lowered with no slack. B) The front was put in and the mount was pryed into place...
Now just remember.. 7/8" steel is what is used on most ships in the water nowadays!
Now either way you look at it, WCF is still around $40 - $50 cheaper than the mounts made by PR. But like he said in a previous post.. If people order and ship enough, then he can lower his prices to match others!
--- Goober!
[This message has been edited by FordsNeverDie (edited 03-21-2004).]
I've never dealt with WCF and from the way that "thier" people act I never will, and on to that the fact that I have heard way to many sotries of people waiting for ever to get thier parts.
Hmmm what can we come up with from thier initials?
I dont know what the big deal here is... but id agree that steel that thick shouldnt bend.... Being a certified welder ive used thiner stuff on things that recieve MORE stress then mounting an engine... I was gonna buy the WCF stuff (headers and front mount) myself before but heard shipping is slow and i dont have allot of time to wait because i did want to get things done by shows this year. i dont know who to listen to on this place anymore!!!
Sleeper....Again, your stupidity is only exceeded by your tired ass insults. Before you jumped in, this thread had some redeeming value. Now it has none. Send it to the Trashcan!
i have ordered WCF spintec muffler, 3.4 TDC wiring diagram, engine and trans mounts, brake lines and their 12" brake kit and never had any quality or fitment issues. i will order frm them again if they offer a product that i need and i recommend them to everyone. their shipping did leave something to be desired but now that i have the parts and installed them it doesn't bother me because i believe the quality was worth it. when i had shipping issues they were respectful on the phone and talked to me extensivly about the TDC swap and when i had issues with the diagram they were willing to help out. the diagram problem wasn't their fault by the way.
Sleeper....Again, your stupidity is only exceeded by your tired ass insults. Before you jumped in, this thread had some redeeming value. Now it has none. Send it to the Trashcan!
-T
Actually, I find this post rather amuzing! Not stupid, not pathetic, just amuzing!
FWIW It's interesting to see everyone's different views on WCF. I've intended on buying many different products from them in the past. but I've heard more than enough horrifying, money stealing, stories about them that I will never consider them.
The interesting part is how some people swear by them, and others condemn them. It almost seems like a Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde thing... Like some days the good employees show up to work and do a good job, but most of the time the drunken shop slops show up and F#CK everyone over... Scary enough for me to never want anything that says "WCF!!"
Okay Craig. Okay PR (whoever you are, whereever you are.)
To settle the nazi thing, guys, I think it was me who was declared the Nazi.
I've been working for WCF for the past several months and in essence, I guess I'm their PR person as well on this forum. I knew the job was going to be dangerous when I took it so being called a Nazi instead of actually having a mature adult conversation shouldn't have surprised me. I'll admit that it did, but it shouldn't have surprised me.
So I was sitting down this morning and listening to my CD "The Third Reich's Greatest Hits, Vol. VI Love Songs for World Domination," and I come across Craig's post. I'll say it almost made me spill my beer. (Actually I never found beer that tasty to begin with.).
I appreciate the sentiment Craig but I really don't need the Post-Eric WCF Public Relations job made worse by sinking down to PR's level.
Sure, the hood was funny, (the gun was down right unnerving) but still not appropriate anymore than me being called a Nazi. (Me being of hispanic ancestry made that insult all the more hilarious.)
So with that said, I still stand by my post that if people had given us the chance to see that there was a problem that we wouldn't be having this thread, or this thread so deep in the Trash.
The only people on this Forum that speak directly for WCF is myself, Fast Red (Chris West) and FordsNeverDie (Goober, who helps us with shipping when I'm not here and posts the events on the Fieros West webpage as well as being the "Grillman" for our BBQs.) These are "our" people.
There are a lot of people that e-mail us with questions, call us from across the country with questions and we try to help them as much as we can. We also have a lot of people ordering different things from us, so no PR, it really doesn't mean much if you have orders. The Fiero Store has orders too, Rodney Dickman has orders AusFiero has orders (still) Archie has orders. We have orders from people who don't like Archie or his product, we have orders from Rodney Dickman because they might not like his product. There was a thread that concerned someone building headers for the 3800 as well. He has orders as well. All these people may want to just have something cool for their Fiero in mind rather than trying to spite WCF. The design of the engine mount that you have now (with your "modifications") look very much like the very first mounts that WCF made. We changed the design for a couple of reasons. Maybe you'll find out why, maybe your customers will find out why.
It doesn't make sense that we would want to screw Fiero people over. Some people will not be pleased no matter what we do. Others are very pleased with what we do and we try to keep them happy whether they are ordering things from us or bringing their pride and joy Fiero to us.
While I'm not without my own critique of West Coast Fiero, I have met Anthony (and seen more of him then I would have ever hoped to. LOCK THE EFFING DOOR!) and I do believe that he is quite sincere in making his mark on improving WCF's rep.
Poeske, I hope to meet you some day. You kill me. Try upping the dosage.
ive never had experiance with 3800 mounts But... i did purchace a set of 400#/inch springs, and coilovers from you guys (WCF) it took me a month to get the rear set, and then you FORGOT to send the fronts then 4 weeks later the front springs FINALLY show up and the quality, and quality control at WCF is sh!t!! the 3 bolts for the strut hats, one should be longer so you can mount the bracket for the enging grate, but all 3 were the same (SHORT) Length i called and complained and got the run arround every time (i called 4 times if i remember correctly )i forget who i talked to( Eric, or Chris ?? ) and they told me that i would need to fix this myself and thwere was nothing they could do about it and hung up on me
so all and all.........i ened up wating 2 months to recive my order, and when it DID finally show up it was a half ass made Pc. at that!! I seriously concidered filing a complaint with the BBB but i ended up fixing it myself and life went on, but i Honestly think that you guys are running a pretty shotty company if your not willing to back your products up
if you so much care to check your reccords and see than im telling the truth i placed my order in march or april of last year, my Name is Rich Albertus, if you tryley are a good company and would like to proove it to me by refunding me part of my money because yuou guys sold me a half ass product, Paypal is my e-mail address thank you, Goood Day
Solid mounts would be fun though, wouldn't they? 
i dont know who to listen to on this place anymore!!!
