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Columbus Day? Why does he get credit? by blackrams
Started on: 10-11-2021 08:45 AM
Replies: 66 (582 views)
Last post by: sourmash on 10-14-2021 07:09 PM
blackrams
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Report this Post10-11-2021 08:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsClick Here to Email blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Some things are just way over my head, I don't understand why we give Columbus credit for discovering the new world, the Americas.

Leif Erikson was here long before Christopher Columbus was even a twinkle in his great great granddaddy's eye.

 
quote
Leif Erikson. Definition. Leif Erikson (also spelled Leif Eriksson, Old Norse Leifr Eiríksson), nicknamed Leif ‘the Lucky’, was a Norse Viking who is best known for arguably being the first European to have set foot on North American soil along with his crew c. 1000 CE.


Honestly, banks being closed today kind of pisses me off........... It is, what it is.

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Report this Post10-11-2021 10:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The Europeans weren't real fond of the Vikings, and everyone loves the Italians, right?
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Report this Post10-11-2021 10:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've got partial Danish ancestry.

[This message has been edited by sourmash (edited 10-11-2021).]

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Report this Post10-11-2021 12:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
America was discovered by the Chinese, the French were next.

Columbus came to North America about 500 years ago, Leif Ericson, about 1,000 years ago. As I mentioned in another recent thread, there was a thriving civilization here in Arizona over 1,500 years ago.

There have been people on this continent since the last ice age.

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 10-11-2021).]

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Report this Post10-11-2021 12:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsClick Here to Email blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

America was discovered by the Chinese, the French were next.


Without Pics, it never happened.

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Report this Post10-11-2021 12:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsClick Here to Email blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

blackrams

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quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

everyone loves the Italians, right?


Well, I did go to college with an Italian girl who's phone number was listed on several phone booths.
Apparently, she was fun to be with. Can't swear to that but, she was cute as heck.

Rams

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Report this Post10-11-2021 01:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Does anyone remember the work of Thor Heyerdahl?
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Report this Post10-11-2021 01:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:


Without Pics, it never happened.

Rams

Mongolian or Inuit? Take a guess.




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Report this Post10-11-2021 01:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

Does anyone remember the work of Thor Heyerdahl?


Sure. He's the guy with the big hammer... (which he invented, yeah, that's the ticket, he invented the hammer)

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Report this Post10-11-2021 01:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:
Leif Ericson, about 1,000 years ago. As I mentioned in another recent thread, there was a thriving civilization here in Arizona over 1,500 years ago.


Who?
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Report this Post10-11-2021 02:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:


Who?

Although your lack of education is not my responsibility, I am going to help you out this time, although you really need to learn how to look things up for yourself instead of bothering the adults.

I mentioned two two entities in your quoted text:

The Sinagua people:



and Lief Ericson:


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Report this Post10-11-2021 02:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

Although your lack of education is not my responsibility, I am going to help you out this time, although you really need to learn how to look things up for yourself


You know why I asked your opinion, because of the real possibility you're engaging in some whacko conspiracy theory.
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Report this Post10-11-2021 02:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
He discovered it for the people that paid for his voyage. Much like I discovered the mall.
It's all in the money trail.

 
quote
In 1484 Columbus began seeking support for an Atlantic crossing from King John II of Portugal but was denied aid. (Some conspiracy theorists have alleged that Columbus made a secret pact with the monarch, but there is no evidence of this.) By 1486 Columbus was firmly in Spain, asking for patronage from King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella. After at least two rejections, he at last obtained royal support in January 1492. This was achieved chiefly through the interventions of the Spanish treasurer, Luis de Santángel, and of the Franciscan friars of La Rábida, near Huelva, with whom Columbus had stayed in the summer of 1491. Juan Pérez of La Rábida had been one of the queen’s confessors and perhaps procured him the crucial audience.


Just like everything else history is dumbed down and shortened because mouth breathers can't stay focused long enough. Columbus didn't discover America as there were people living here. But he did discover America for those that sponsored him.
While he was not the ideal human and under different circumstances would have lead an uneventful life, he did sail across the ocean and discovered land that had previously not been documented by his benefactors.
So you can argue that there were others but they didn't keep very good records or none at all. I am sure those Vikings that came to America were saints just trying to bring the word of Odin to a new land.
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Report this Post10-11-2021 02:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:

He discovered it for the people that paid for his voyage. Much like I discovered the mall.
It's all in the money trail.


Just like everything else history is dumbed down and shortened because mouth breathers can't stay focused long enough. Columbus didn't discover America as there were people living here. But he did discover America for those that sponsored him.
While he was not the ideal human and under different circumstances would have lead an uneventful life, he did sail across the ocean and discovered land that had previously not been documented by his benefactors.
So you can argue that there were others but they didn't keep very good records or none at all. I am sure those Vikings that came to America were saints just trying to bring the word of Odin to a new land.

Yeah, I just recently discovered that Elvira is a lesbian, although she apparently knew it for 20 years.
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Report this Post10-11-2021 03:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Are you one who believes Vikings of that day made it to the Southwestern parts of this land?
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Report this Post10-11-2021 03:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

Does anyone remember the work of Thor Heyerdahl?


Didn't he invent the KonTikiTorch?
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Report this Post10-11-2021 03:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

Are you one who believes Vikings of that day made it to the Southwestern parts of this land?

Yeah, and we kicked their ass.


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Report this Post10-11-2021 03:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You do, don't you?
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Report this Post10-11-2021 03:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

You do, don't you?

You really need to get out more.
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Report this Post10-11-2021 03:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
But you won't answer the question asked. Why not? Vikings of that somewhat ancient era, did they make it to or settle in the Soutwest of North America.
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Report this Post10-11-2021 04:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JonesySend a Private Message to JonesyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Columbus also helped to create a massive slave trade economy as well, so he gets credit for that..

So not what i would call a "hero" or someone to be celebrated.

[This message has been edited by Jonesy (edited 10-11-2021).]

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Report this Post10-11-2021 04:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

But you won't answer the question asked. Why not?

I already helped you once today.

 
quote

Vikings of that somewhat ancient era, did they make it to or settle in the Soutwest of North America.

This time you will have to look it up for yourself.
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Report this Post10-11-2021 04:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jonesy:

Columbus also helped to create a massive slave trade economy as well, so he gets credit for that..

So not what i would call a "hero" or someone to be celebrated.



If you look at who it was that took the first slave on Columbus's voyage it might open up a revealing pattern that continued from before that time and into the colonies in North America.
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Report this Post10-11-2021 04:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

sourmash

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quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

This time you will have to look it up for yourself.


You can tell us. We probably pretty know already. Don't be afraid.
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Report this Post10-11-2021 04:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
"Did Italian sailors know that the United States [sic] existed 150 years before [the famous voyage of] Christopher Columbus?"

Cory Weinberg for Press Stories; October 11, 2021.
https://presstories.com/202...covered% 20in%202013.

Not a long article.

I think the question that is presented as the title or banner for the article is not clearly answered by the article.

"Maybe."

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 10-11-2021).]

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Report this Post10-11-2021 04:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wlliegoat is right; The Chinese were here "First" (Ignoring the "Native Americans").....Then Leif, then finally Columbus- But he was the one who got public recognition.

I have always thought that it would be cool to change "Columbus day" to "Explorers' day" which would celebrate all of the explorers- including people who explore other-than-the Earth's surface......(Scientists, engineers, etc)
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Report this Post10-11-2021 05:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:


I am sure those Vikings that came to America were saints just trying to bring the word of Odin to a new land.



It took my enthusiastic Norse ancestors a long time to learn the basic principle of: "Rape and pillage....THEN burn."

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Report this Post10-11-2021 05:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

Wlliegoat is right; The Chinese were here "First" (Ignoring the "Native Americans").....Then Leif, then finally Columbus- But he was the one who got public recognition.

I have always thought that it would be cool to change "Columbus day" to "Explorers' day" which would celebrate all of the explorers- including people who explore other-than-the Earth's surface......(Scientists, engineers, etc)

People first came to the western hemisphere across the Bering straits during the last ice age. That is why I say "the Chinese". The "native Americans" are from Asia.
There is also some evidence that during the same period of time, some people followed the ice shelf across the north Atlantic from the area that is now France and arrived in north America from the east coast. Look up the Solutrean migration.

No, it was not Vikings as sourboy suggests.
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Report this Post10-11-2021 05:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


 
quote
I saw three ships a-sailin', they were all heading my way
I asked the captain what his name was
And how come he didn't drive a truck
He said his name was Columbus, I just said, "Good luck"

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 10-11-2021).]

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Report this Post10-11-2021 05:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:
No, it was not Vikings as sourboy suggests.


What was not Vikings? Quote where someone said it was Vikings as you're quoted claiming. Good luck, little willie. You're just making things up now.

And then tell us what you think about Vikings of the era that are known to have arrived here a thousand years ago possibly making it to the Southwest of North America.
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Report this Post10-11-2021 05:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

sourmash

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quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

"Did Italian sailors know that the United States [sic] existed 150 years before [the famous voyage of] Christopher Columbus?"

Cory Weinberg for Press Stories; October 11, 2021.
https://presstories.com/202...covered% 20in%202013.

Not a long article.

I think the question that is presented as the title or banner for the article is not clearly answered by the article.

"Maybe."



The Uniter States? Seriously?! The United States?! Who would bother clicking something that far out of sync with chronologically historical events? Besides 82what's his name, I mean.

Columbus didn't set foot on a mainland did he?
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Report this Post10-11-2021 06:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Columbus was NOT looking for new lands to plunder; He was searching for a easier route to the far east....That is why the Caribbean Islands are called the "West Indies"- As in INDIA....So blaming him for Europeans conquering N. America is kind of....Dumb....
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Report this Post10-11-2021 06:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So, to sum it all up and hopefully answer the original question; it was Columbus' voyages that laid the groundwork for the first European settlements that eventually became The United States of America.
The Vikings came and left, never establishing a permanent colony. Those who came before, the indigenous population, did not form the U.S.A.
We say Columbus discovered America because his voyages brought the Europeans and the Europeans created America.
Right or wrong, that is what happened.

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 10-12-2021).]

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Report this Post10-11-2021 06:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

Columbus was NOT looking for new lands to plunder; He was searching for a easier route to the far east....That is why the Caribbean Islands are called the "West Indies"- As in INDIA....So blaming him for Europeans conquering N. America is kind of....Dumb....



True. As said in the other thread his funders who accompanied him took slaves when the new Indian trade route they were speculating on finding failed to materialize.

[This message has been edited by sourmash (edited 10-11-2021).]

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Report this Post10-11-2021 06:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsClick Here to Email blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, to be honest, I don't really care who or what was first, We needed the bank today and because someone at some point in time decided to make today a frick'n holiday, my schedule is screwed up for the next week. Was supposed to travel to Atlanta and pick up a Trike that's going to Austin, TX. Seller was ready, transporter was ready and the buyer was ready to send an electronic transfer of funds buttttttttttttttttttttttttttt. No Joy.

Damn Columbus Day!!!!

Rams
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Report this Post10-11-2021 06:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:
No, it was not Vikings as sourboy suggests.


Right or wrong? You wouldn't know right from wrong. You can't even admit you just made up some claim about someone else that was never made.
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Report this Post10-11-2021 07:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jonesy:

Columbus also helped to create a massive slave trade economy as well, so he gets credit for that..

So not what i would call a "hero" or someone to be celebrated.



I was taught that he was responsible for expanding trade routes, that was his goal. He was not an explorer as much as a travelling sales man trying to get to market faster than the next guy.
Like everyone else at that time, they had little value in human life unless it was a commodity. If it wasn't him it would have been someone else.
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Report this Post10-11-2021 08:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:
The Uniter States? Seriously?! The United States?! Who would bother clicking something that far out of sync with chronologically historical events? Besides 82what's his name, I mean.

Columbus didn't set foot on a mainland did he?

That was a shoddy news report that I settled on. I was trying to find my back to the news report that I remembered reading before. I just posted that one to save myself some time. It's based on something that was just published in Terrae Incognitae: The Journal of the Society for the History of Discoveries; to wit:

"Marckalada: The First Mention of America in the Mediterranean Area (c. 1340)"
Paolo Chiesa for Terrae Incognitae; July 16, 2021.
https://www.tandfonline.com...0822884.2021.1943792

ABSTRACT
 
quote
The Cronica universalis written by the Milanese friar Galvaneus Flamma (it. Galvano Fiamma, d. c. 1345) contains an astonishing reference to a terra que dicitur Marckalada, situated west from Greenland. This land is recognizable as the Markland mentioned by some Icelandic sources and identified by scholars as some part of the Atlantic coast of North America. Galvaneus’s reference, probably derived by oral sources heard in Genoa, is the first mention of the American continent in the Mediterranean region, and gives evidence of the circulation (out of the Nordic area and 150 years before Columbus) of narratives about lands beyond Greenland. This article provides a transcription of the passage, explains its context in the Cronica universalis, compares it to the other (Nordic) references of Markland, and discusses the possible origin of Galvaneus’s mention of Markland in light of Galvaneus’s biography and working method.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 10-11-2021).]

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randye
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Originally posted by williegoat:

The Vikings came and left, never establishing a permanent colony.



My people are very practical folk.

They sailed back home and waited until Minnesota and North Dakota were established and then they came back.


(None of that will make sense to someone that doesn't know how many Scandinavians settled that area)

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 10-11-2021).]

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blackrams
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Originally posted by randye:


My people are very practical folk.

They sailed back home and waited until Minnesota and North Dakota were established and then they came back.



And yet, you ended up in Florida.......... Hmmm........

Rams
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