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The 'big one' . . . Richmond's towering equestrian statue of Robert E Lee taken down by rinselberg
Started on: 09-08-2021 02:39 PM
Replies: 60 (575 views)
Last post by: sourmash on 09-13-2021 04:44 AM
rinselberg
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Report this Post09-08-2021 02:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
"Robert E. Lee statue in Richmond, Virginia, taken down, cut into pieces"
Associated Press, in NBC News; September 8, 2021.
https://www.nbcnews.com/new...a-come-down-n1278669

The statue has been (or is being) cut into at least two pieces--but not to destroy it.
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Report this Post09-08-2021 03:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post09-08-2021 03:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ya, no surprise.
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Report this Post09-08-2021 06:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Oh good. Room for another George Floyd statue.
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Report this Post09-08-2021 06:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
DEMORATS BUSY TRYING TO ERASE THEIR OWN LEGACY

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Report this Post09-08-2021 09:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Statement by Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America; September 8, 2021.
 
quote
Just watched as a massive crane took down the magnificent and very famous statue of “Robert E. Lee On His Horse” in Richmond, Virginia. It has long been recognized as a beautiful piece of bronze sculpture. To add insult to injury, those who support this “taking” now plan to cut it into three pieces, and throw this work of art into storage prior to its complete desecration.

Robert E. Lee is considered by many Generals to be the greatest strategist of them all. President Lincoln wanted him to command the North, in which case the war would have been over in one day. Robert E. Lee instead chose the other side because of his great love of Virginia, and except for Gettysburg, would have won the war. He should be remembered as perhaps the greatest unifying force after the war was over, ardent in his resolve to bring the North and South together through many means of reconciliation and imploring his soldiers to do their duty in becoming good citizens of this Country.

Our culture is being destroyed and our history and heritage, both good and bad, are being extinguished by the Radical Left, and we can’t let that happen! If only we had Robert E. Lee to command our troops in Afghanistan, that disaster would have ended in a complete and total victory many years ago. What an embarrassment we are suffering because we don’t have the genius of a Robert E. Lee!

Thanks to Internet blogger and podcaster Sharyl Attkisson.
https://sharylattkisson.com...ue-an-embarrassment/
 
quote
Donald Trump has been censored by many in the media, Big Tech and on the Internet. In the interest of open and free access to information, some of the difficult-to-find material on Trump is being published here.


[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 09-08-2021).]

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randye
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Report this Post09-08-2021 10:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

Statement by Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America; September 8, 2021.




OK little fella, now tell the class what the former president said that you think isn't true.



It's ok, you can move your lips while you try to read if you have to....

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 09-08-2021).]

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Report this Post09-09-2021 07:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Atlantic staff writer Adam Serwer has a magazine length article on the historical or "real" Robert E. Lee.

It's a stark contrast with the sentimental admiration of Lee that is on display in yesterday's message from Donald J. Trump, which I posted in this thread, in the post that came immediately before the post that came immediately before this post.

"The Myth of the Kindly General Lee"
 
quote
The legend of the Confederate leader’s heroism and decency is based in the fiction of a person who never existed.
Adam Serwer for The Atlantic; June 4, 2017.
https://www.theatlantic.com...-general-lee/529038/

Here's how it ends:
 
quote
The white supremacists who have protested on Lee’s behalf [protesting the removal of Robert E. Lee statues and monuments] are not betraying [Robert E. Lee's] legacy. In fact, they have every reason to admire him. Lee, whose devotion to white supremacy outshone his loyalty to his country, is the embodiment of everything they stand for. Tribe and race over country is the core of white nationalism, and racists can embrace Lee in good conscience.

The question is why anyone else would.


Adam Serwer is an American journalist and author. He is a staff writer at The Atlantic where his work focuses on politics, race, and justice. He previously worked at Buzzfeed News, The American Prospect, and Mother Jones. [Wikipedia.]

And--I might as well say it before a certain someone else does--drop the first 'r' in Serwer and he becomes Adam "Sewer."

Whoop-de-doo.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 09-09-2021).]

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Report this Post09-09-2021 08:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There is one enemy in the new America....for now. Those hated people are now becoming aware of the hatred that is now institutionally manifested against them. Every Somoan shot by Antifa at protests is a White supremacist. As is every Afro-Cubano arrested who is serving as the Proud Boys' leader (and as an FBI informant).

Every other race is allowed to marry within their race and allowed to associate with them. Only Whites are labeled as racist for similar actions and targetted for genetic and cultural invasion.

A percentage of other races or mixed raced people recognize that what Rinse promotes from leftist sources will be everyone's destruction.
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Report this Post09-09-2021 09:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What? Another OPINION piece you reference as fact?

It is a huge mistake to hold historical figures to modern standards.

We were formed as a Republic made up of independent States. National loyalties fell behind loyalty to God, Family and State.

I think we would do better today if we held our values in that same light.
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Report this Post09-09-2021 09:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
But we know since that goes against globalism, it is today the enemy of the State. All must conform to a godless, amoral goo of a culture. Now take your injections.

Meanwhile a war criminal President who is responsible for extinguisinhing the lives of 750,000 men is still honored. That war could've been over with as little as the single death at Fort Sumter in which one Union soldier was accidentally killed in a ceremonial volley.
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Report this Post09-09-2021 07:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

What? Another OPINION piece you reference as fact?



It never fails does it.

He was directly asked to cite specifically what the former president said that isn't true.

He comes back with another OPINION article by some Leftist propagandist, twat-waffle whose opinion is that Robert E. Lee wasn't a nice man

....and THAT OPINION isn't really even the twat-waffle's own but just the parroted opinion of his pal, the unlettered racist Ta-Nehisi Coates, who is also not a historian.


It's hard to imagine what goes on inside the head of a Leftist whose every idea of what is "fact" is just the parroted opinion of another Leftist.

There is an organic and functional oddity in the way the Leftist "brain" so easily dismisses real world, objective, facts, and the way that they tenaciously cling to opinion and emotion....including the opinions and emotions of their comrades.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 09-09-2021).]

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Report this Post09-09-2021 08:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsClick Here to Email blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, although I do agree with the majority of what President Trump said, I don't agree with this particular statement in total.

 
quote
If only we had Robert E. Lee to command our troops in Afghanistan, that disaster would have ended in a complete and total victory many years ago. What an embarrassment we are suffering because we don’t have the genius of a Robert E. Lee!


Not taking anything away from General Lee, he was a great general and strategist but, the same results could have been had by several of our current and former military leadership if only the politicians would get the hell out of the way. Every President the last 20 years had opportunity, they just didn't finish the job.

Rams

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 09-09-2021).]

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Report this Post09-09-2021 08:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:

Well, although I do agree with the majority of what President Trump said, I don't agree with this particular statement in total.


Not taking anything away from General Lee, he was a great general and strategist but, the same results could have been had by several of our current and former military leadership if only the politicians would get the hell out of the way. Every President the last 20 years had opportunity, they just didn't finish the job.

Rams



That sentiment of the former president falls firmly into HIS OPINION and while you and I can certainly agree that many of our modern day generals could have also done a magnificent job of it if only left unfettered by the politicians, we can also both agree that there is absolutely nothing intentionally or unintentionally false in the former president's personal observation.

We should also be mindful that we have already been down this particular, unproductive, blind alley with rinsel before in his other thread on this very same topic.

The variety of his methods of attention whoring know no bounds....

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 09-09-2021).]

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Report this Post09-09-2021 10:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you would just ignore the inconsequential things that have no meaning......
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Report this Post09-09-2021 11:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just used the forum Search function to look at some numbers.

The ten (10) most recent Totally O/T forum topics created by forum member "randye" stretch all the way back to October 2020, or almost a year ago.

The ten (10) most recent Totally O/T forum topics created by me go back to August 14, or almost a month ago.

This is why I've said--more than once--that forum member "randye" sounds (or reads) as if he would rather have a Totally O/T-themed screensaver display--an unchanging image or "wallpaper" that he could look at from time to time throughout his day--instead of an active discussion forum or messages board.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 09-10-2021).]

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Report this Post09-09-2021 11:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:


The ten (10) most recent Totally O/T forum topics created by me go back to August 14, or almost a month ago.




Since you've shown us that you're so good at counting, now tell everyone how many of your 10,857 posts on PFF since you slithered in here back in March 2010 have been.....

..... anywhere outside of O/T


We'll wait....

It shouldn't take you too long.

But don't take too long because I don't think you have all that much longer to be here....

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 09-09-2021).]

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Report this Post09-09-2021 11:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Randye the local Gestapo "Ocifer" has spoken and wants to eliminate anyone who doesn't TOTALLY agree with his lord and master (Is that Chumpy or Putin?)
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Report this Post09-10-2021 12:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for NotorioSend a Private Message to NotorioEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The thing I have learned about History and Biography is that the author is 100% in control of what sources get presented, which ones don't, whether or not they honor the context, etc. Subconscious bias can not be avoided in these selections, and of course there is also the problem of conscious bias to be considered. Sadly the result is that you can read two biographies of REL, for example, and come away with quite different impressions of the man. I agree with Pres Trump when he said that if Lee had accepted command of the Northern armies the war would have been quickly won (over in 'a day' is just Trump hyperbole). I'm not sure about how hard he worked for reconciliation but he certainly didn't work to establish and grow Southern terrorism in the form of the KKK focused on the newly freed Blacks, White Republicans, and sympathizers, like others did. My 'vote' is to keep the history visible, explain it, and help each other learn from what went before us. I feel that with each statue that comes down we lose the opportunity to talk about it with our children.
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Report this Post09-10-2021 12:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for NotorioSend a Private Message to NotorioEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Notorio:

The thing I have learned about History and Biography is that the author is 100% in control of what sources get presented, which ones don't, whether or not they honor the context, etc. Subconscious bias can not be avoided in these selections, and of course there is also the problem of conscious bias to be considered ...


This might be the first time I've quoted myself .

On the regrettable feature of bias there is a fantastic little book by Stephen E. Ambrose, called "To America: Personal Reflections of an Historian." You should read it before today's cultural leaders rediscover it and ban it from libraries everywhere. You might know of Ambrose from his WW2 epics, like "Band of Brothers."
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Report this Post09-10-2021 12:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

Randye the local Gestapo "Ocifer" has spoken and wants to eliminate anyone who doesn't TOTALLY agree with his lord and master (Is that Chumpy or Putin?)



Sorry SOAPY but I don't think anyone has clue what the hell you are trying to babble about.

Be sure to get back to us if you ever become coherent.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 09-10-2021).]

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Report this Post09-10-2021 12:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Notorio:

The thing I have learned about History and Biography is that the author is 100% in control of what sources get presented, which ones don't, whether or not they honor the context, etc. Subconscious bias can not be avoided in these selections, and of course there is also the problem of conscious bias to be considered. Sadly the result is that you can read two biographies of REL, for example, and come away with quite different impressions of the man. I agree with Pres Trump when he said that if Lee had accepted command of the Northern armies the war would have been quickly won (over in 'a day' is just Trump hyperbole). I'm not sure about how hard he worked for reconciliation but he certainly didn't work to establish and grow Southern terrorism in the form of the KKK focused on the newly freed Blacks, White Republicans, and sympathizers, like others did.

My 'vote' is to keep the history visible, explain it, and help each other learn from what went before us. I feel that with each statue that comes down we lose the opportunity to talk about it with our children.



Now THAT is a well considered and crafted post.

I applaud you.

I can only add that Chairman Mao's Red Guards destroyed statues and books precisely so that "unapproved history" was hidden and could never be talked about by future generations.
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Report this Post09-10-2021 08:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by randye:

Now THAT is a well considered and crafted post.

I applaud you [Notorio.]

Would Notorio have created and put on display his "well considered and crafted post" if I hadn't created this thread?

Think about it.

This is why forum member "randye" is mindlessly bloviating when he goes on (as he did earlier in this thread) about "attention whoring."

"Attention whoring" is what he says when I have the "audacity" to create a topic or post a message. It really sticks in his craw that despite "umpteen" years of frantic and frenetic effort on his part, he's never been able to "badmouth" me enough to discourage me from saying most of the things that I want to say on this forum. No one can be well read in the "annals" of this forum and not be aware of that.

As I said previously--but it bears repeating--I just used the forum Search function to look at some numbers.

The ten (10) most recent Totally O/T forum topics created by forum member "randye" stretch all the way back to October 2020, or almost a year ago.

The ten (10) most recent Totally O/T forum topics created by me go back to August 14, or almost a month ago.

This is why I've said--more than once--that forum member "randye" sounds (or reads) as if he would rather have a Totally O/T-themed screensaver display--an unchanging image or "wallpaper" that he could look at from time to time throughout his day--instead of an active discussion forum or messages board.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 09-10-2021).]

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Report this Post09-10-2021 09:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is your arm sore? Or is it your back?
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Report this Post09-10-2021 09:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Report this Post09-10-2021 10:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskClick Here to Email RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It was built 25 years after the war to romanticize a lost cause. Losers (read: traitors) don't get participation trophies.
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Report this Post09-10-2021 10:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RandomTask:

It was built 25 years after the war to romanticize a lost cause. Losers (read: traitors) don't get participation trophies.


False on all counts. Yes traitors do. The winning traitors write history. Lincoln was a war criminal and traitor. He got what he was asking for. He told his traitor generals that he wouldn't prosecute them after the war for war crimes just as long as they won the war. The carpet-baggers should've hanged, also.

As proof of fact, they had to create the Posse Comitatus act due to the brutality committed agaisnt citizens by The New Union forces. It exists today, still.

The statue and many others were conciliatory offerings, in part due to the tyranny and treason committed against The South.

The cause that was lost was greater freedom of a citizen through States Rights.
The line to where we have become this failed culture and society of today is a straight line going through that war, to the Fed Reserve Act, through WW2 and the immigration act of 1965(date?).

Personally, there are other reasons that The South wasnt the epitome of a free state that I would desire, but the Empire of Hollywood should have never deserved to become a thing.

[This message has been edited by sourmash (edited 09-10-2021).]

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Report this Post09-10-2021 06:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RandomTask:


Losers (read: traitors) don't get participation trophies.




If you Leftists were actually serious about tearing down everything that had to do with losers, traitors, insurrectionists and supporting slavery you would be insisting on tearing down THE DEMORAT PARTY

You're only interested in trying to hide it's true legacy.

THE DEMORAT PARTY HAS NEVER ACKNOWLEDGED OR APOLOGIZED FOR IT'S DEFENSE OF SLAVERY AND IT'S INSURRECTION

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 09-10-2021).]

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Report this Post09-10-2021 06:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

....if I hadn't created this thread

Think about it.

The ten (10) most recent Totally O/T forum topics created by me go back to August 14, or almost a month ago.





Now tell everyone how many of your 10,860+ posts on PFF since you slithered in here back in March 2010 have been...

..... anywhere outside of O/T


We'll wait....

It shouldn't take you too long......

But don't take too long because I don't think you have all that much longer to be here.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 09-10-2021).]

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Report this Post09-10-2021 07:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
"Opinion: Robert E. Lee was a stone-cold loser"
Dana Millbank, columnist for the Washington Post; September 10, 2021.
https://www.washingtonpost....hmond-trump-history/

In reference to that statement from Donald Trump the other day, when the big Richmond statue was removed from the public space:

 
quote
For a point-by-point grading of Trump’s "history paper", I checked in with Ty Seidule LINK, a retired U.S. Army brigadier general and military historian who is the former head of the U.S. Military Academy history department. Now at Hamilton College, he’s the author of “Robert E. Lee and Me: A Southerner’s Reckoning With the Myth of the Lost Cause.” . . .

Lee chose the Confederacy because of his great love of Virginia? Seidule said Lee was one of eight U.S. Army colonels from Virginia at the time of secession in 1861. The other seven remained loyal to the United States — as did Virginian Winfield Scott, the U.S. Army’s commander, and 80 percent of all colonels from the South. “Lee’s the outlier,” Seidule said. That may be because at that level of Army officers “no one benefited from slavery more than he did.” Lee ran an enslaved-labor farm — a plantation — from 1857 to 1860. He wasn’t even a resident of Virginia for most of his prewar life; Alexandria, his hometown, was part of the District of Columbia until 1847. . . .
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THE M2 STUART LIGHT TANK

NAMED AFTER CONFEDERATE GENERAL J.E.B. STUART


The M2 Stuart (and later M5 Stuart) tank was used extensively by American and British forces throughout WW2

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randye

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THE M3 LEE MEDIUM TANK

NAMED AFTER CONFEDERATE GENERAL ROBERT E. LEE


The M3 Lee medium tank was used extensively by American and British forces in WW2

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USS CHANCELLORSVILLE CG-62

COMMISSIONED 1989


She is named for the Battle of Chancellorsville of the Civil War, which was a victory for the Confederate States Army.

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USNS MAURY T-AGS-66

COMMISSIONED 2016

NAMED AFTER CONFEDERATE NAVY COMMANDER MATTHEW FONTAINE MAURY


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Dodge Charger - named after Robert E. Lee



Peggy Lee - Lee isn't even her real name, but I like the video.

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Report this Post09-10-2021 09:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
He even mentions the city where I was born.

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quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:Lee chose the Confederacy because of his great love of Virginia? Seidule said Lee was one of eight U.S. Army colonels from Virginia at the time of secession in 1861. The other seven remained loyal to the United States — as did Virginian Winfield Scott, the U.S. Army’s commander, and 80 percent of all colonels from the South. “Lee’s the outlier,” Seidule said. That may be because at that level of Army officers “no one benefited from slavery more than he did.” Lee ran an enslaved-labor farm — a plantation — from 1857 to 1860. He wasn’t even a resident of Virginia for most of his prewar life; Alexandria, his hometown, was part of the District of Columbia until 1847. . . .



So he wasnt a sheep like the other officers? Yeah, we know that already. And we totally can't see through the bogus claim he wasnt a Virginian.

Lee accurately and honestly stated if he believed that the resistance was about slavery, then he wouldn't have supported it.

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Report this Post09-10-2021 10:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Really? The first polygraph or lie detector machines did not emerge until after 1900. I see 1906. And 1921. Online, of course.

He died in 1870.
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