Been here for 15 years. And despite going on other forums for tech information with other vehicles i have never come across a better group of people helpful wise. Once again i find myself on other forums trying to find some advice and dont usually get far so i come here. What im struggling with is below. Im lost I dont know where to go from here. Anyone have any ideas i havent tried yet?
2002 F150 with the 5.4. Truck died. No sound from pump. Tried to scan truck but would not link with my scan tool. Changed both pcm and fuel pump relays. Still wouldn't connect to scan tool. But fuel pressure at rail was exactly 40 psi. But could not hear pump. So fast forward changed the pump and filter but psi never changed went higher than 40. But truck started and ran fine. Not only that but scan tool worked. weird right? Only code was pcm didn't complete cycle. Cleared it and started driving truck put more gas in it. And it still stalls. Sometimes starts sometimes doesn't had to be flatbedded home. Got it home and left it overnight. Fired right up the next day. What the hell? Just let it idle for awhile went back out in the rain and it had died again and wont restart. what do I do now gents? Bad pcm? I'm totally at a loss now on what the issue is with this thing and I'm here hoping you folks could help guide me on what I may have missed. thanks for listening. rich
Not enough information for me and I'm not a certified auto technician but,...............
Did you clean out/flush that fuel tank when you changed that pump? (Most fuel tanks are carrying a lot of trash and crap around in them.) Install a new fuel strainer? Replace any other fuel filters? Have you run any injector cleaner through the system? Any kinked pressure feed or return fuel lines?
Sounds to me like your engine is starving for fuel.
Does this happen only when the engine is warmed up? Any other engine codes popping up?
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 10-11-2017).]
Not linking with the scan tool would seem to be a pcm problem. Not that the pcm itself is bad as it could be due to a faulty ground or other wiring problem.
Passenger side firewall. Look at all the connections. Clean any if necessary.
Look at fuse for fuel pump. It can be semi blown.
Check wiring for emergency fuel shutoff at passenger foot well. Perhaps a pinched wire?
If there are continuous codes and a problem is not remedied, a less expensive scanner (like my own and pertaining to my 1997 F150) will not be able to read codes. The continuous codes thrown do not allow the pcm to learn.
Not linking with the scan tool would seem to be a pcm problem. Not that the pcm itself is bad as it could be due to a faulty ground or other wiring problem.
As I read his post this is what I was thinking as well.
I believe that has a fuel pump control module mounted on the frame near the fuel tank. We've seen many that were coroded through the housing down here in salty upstate NY. Marc
I believe that has a fuel pump control module mounted on the frame near the fuel tank. We've seen many that were coroded through the housing down here in salty upstate NY. Marc
That doesn't explain the not linking with the pcm problem though.
This is why i love you guys. My post on the f150 forums got nothing so far. But here its got 9 and its been up less time.
Ok to respond to each in turn.
Blackram- New strainer on new pump. Only replaced the frame rail fuel filter. Is there another? Gas tank is clean. Ran a bottle of seafoam in the tank last night before i started it. Still died wouldnt restart. No kinked lines. Checked and checked again after reinstalling tank. Yes it seems to happen when truck is running for a bit. Thought it could be bad coil but this uses individual coils on every plug. No codes at all.
Stubby-Plan to try to scan tonight. Didnt try that last night. I am leading toward some sort of pcm electrical thing.
Midengine- Nope nothing was hot at all. How do you test for vapor lock?
Lambo nut- thats where im leaning. I hate trying to track a wiring issue down.
Tony- Will do that tonight. both the firewall wiring and footwell. Thanks for the tip. Even when not running fuel rail psi goes to 40. Bleed the pressue off then turn key goes back to 40 so i dont think fuse? There are no codes. THe scan tool i have is the 300 dollar one that advance auto sells.
Lambo Nut- That is what happened at first. Before fuel pump change. 40psi at rail reader would not connect. Changed both relays for PCM and fuel pump. Still would not read. Changed pump and filter. and truck started and PCM was able to be read. I will try today to see if truck starts i will let it run till truck dies i will try to scan truck then again.
KHW- thats where im leaning.
Olds fiero- I will look at that tonight too. THank you
Again to all of you i express deepest thank yous.. there is no better place on the internet.
A while back I had a Cavalier giving me problems. Would die when it hit a decent size bump or went over RR tracks. Always started right back up. Drove me nuts. Got to wondering when not finding a loose wire, I tapped on the ecm while running and I be damned it died. Turned out the header that the main harness plugs into had some cold solder joints. Worried that it might have caused other problems in the ecm I went ahead and replaced it. Problem solved. Tracking down an electrical problem can be "fun".
If you can scan it, check the coolant temp sensor reading just for laughs. Had an Explorer with a bad temp sensor showing -40 and it would cold start, but later stall and it wouldn't re-start.
I just heard of a strange Ford issue. I don't remember if I read it here (I think it was), or if my brother told me about it, but the vehicle quit. Troubleshooting found that there was a blown fuse or relay. Removing it would allow the vehicle to run. Installing a new one resulted in it immediately blowing with a no-run condition. Again, removing the it allowed the vehicle to start and run.
There is a fuel pump reset button, probably underneath the right side of the dash, in the kick panel. I don't know if those things will allow the pump to prime, but it's worth pushing to reset to see if it helps. Still doesn't explain the no-connect issue, though.
Blackram- New strainer on new pump. Only replaced the frame rail fuel filter. Is there another? Gas tank is clean. Ran a bottle of seafoam in the tank last night before i started it. Still died wouldnt restart. No kinked lines. Checked and checked again after reinstalling tank. Yes it seems to happen when truck is running for a bit. Thought it could be bad coil but this uses individual coils on every plug. No codes at all.
Stubby-Plan to try to scan tonight. Didnt try that last night. I am leading toward some sort of pcm electrical thing.
Midengine- Nope nothing was hot at all. How do you test for vapor lock?
Lambo nut- thats where im leaning. I hate trying to track a wiring issue down.
Tony- Will do that tonight. both the firewall wiring and footwell. Thanks for the tip. Even when not running fuel rail psi goes to 40. Bleed the pressue off then turn key goes back to 40 so i dont think fuse? There are no codes. THe scan tool i have is the 300 dollar one that advance auto sells.
Lambo Nut- That is what happened at first. Before fuel pump change. 40psi at rail reader would not connect. Changed both relays for PCM and fuel pump. Still would not read. Changed pump and filter. and truck started and PCM was able to be read. I will try today to see if truck starts i will let it run till truck dies i will try to scan truck then again.
KHW- thats where im leaning.
Olds fiero- I will look at that tonight too. THank you
I asked about cleaning or flushing the fuel tank, with your response, I'm still not clear on that. What I mean is, did you drop the tank and clean/flush it out? Many for the fuel and injector cleaners will address crap in the tank but, they don't rid the tank of all the crap that can build up in them. Reference filters, call your local Advance and ask them how many fuel filters they sell for your Ford. BTW, I'm a big believer in having a Haynes Manual for my own vehicles.
It could be that you have an electrical issue, it doesn't sound like it's a fuel related electrical issue now with further explanation you have provided. You may have a grounding issue. I know that isn't much help but, it's tough to diagnose over the phone or on line.
Many times when a scanner won't link to your PCM, it's a blown fuse. That doesn't mean the vehicle won't run though. That still doesn't explain why the Ford is dying.
Vehicles have become so sophisticated that it's becoming increasing difficult for the DYI person to fix it themselves. I can't afford all the tools required in today's vehicles and most surely don't have the expertise needed to do everything.
Blackram- I did drop the tank completely and drain what was in it i did clean out the inside of the tank it was surprisingly clean. Added fresh gas anyway. Sorry about that. I am going to go through everything suggested by folks here once i get home tonight. Thank you all. I am going to do one thing at a time so when if i find the solution ill let everyone know who the winner is. lol
Many times when a scanner won't link to your PCM, it's a blown fuse. That doesn't mean the vehicle won't run though. That still doesn't explain why the Ford is dying.
That could be true but a fuse won't unblow itself and start working again.
Ok more information for you gentlemen. Came home to truck scanner connected just fine. Only code was p1000 diagnostic cycle not complete. Starts just fine. Ran it for awhile and it just died. BUT fuel pump continously ran until i shut key off. Hooked up scanner connected fine. Same code. Started right back up and ran for few min. then died. WITHOUT shutting key off connected scanner and it would not connect to pcm just got a link error, Shut key off then turrned on to scan connected fine then got same code. Took scanner off truck started up. Same results so im leaning definitely toward pcm at this point. Thoughts?
This should narrow it down to two things, the pcm or the ignition switch. As hard as it may be, I would see if you still have power to the pcm, AT the pcm after it has died and won't link. If power at pcm, I would have pcm tested. If no power, ignition switch.
Edit to add, with the fuel pump still running until ignition shut off, I'm going to guess pcm along with you.
[This message has been edited by Lambo nut (edited 10-12-2017).]
Ok more information for you gentlemen. Came home to truck scanner connected just fine. Only code was p1000 diagnostic cycle not complete. Starts just fine. Ran it for awhile and it just died. BUT fuel pump continously ran until i shut key off. Hooked up scanner connected fine. Same code. Started right back up and ran for few min. then died. WITHOUT shutting key off connected scanner and it would not connect to pcm just got a link error, Shut key off then turrned on to scan connected fine then got same code. Took scanner off truck started up. Same results so im leaning definitely toward pcm at this point. Thoughts?
My thoughts are, spend the money to have a trusted mechanic or technician to look at it before buying a PCM. Most have to be flashed at a dealership anyway unless you have a source that can do it.
Originally posted by HIOSILVER!: 2002 F150 with the 5.4. Truck died. No sound from pump. Tried to scan truck but would not link with my scan tool. Changed both pcm and fuel pump...
It says in your original post that you changed the PCM. Have you tried putting the original PCM (that I assume you still have) back in the truck? if the symptom is the same regardless of which PCM is in the truck, either something in the truck is taking out the ECM's, or the ECM is not your problem.
It says in your original post that you changed the PCM. Have you tried putting the original PCM (that I assume you still have) back in the truck? if the symptom is the same regardless of which PCM is in the truck, either something in the truck is taking out the ECM's, or the ECM is not your problem.
Your quote is one word short. I believe he was saying he changed both the fuel pump relay and the ecm relay
When I had repeated ECM problems, it was a bad alternator "spiking" occasional spikes of high voltage. I'm not sure what equipment you'd need to check that, the dealership had to catalog it fort a 90 minute drive before thy figured it out. Other than that:
Had a chance to play with it tonight. Tried a new MAF sensor because i had access to one. Truck ran for about 15 min. Decided to back it out of garage died halfway out. Had to grab the good old chevy to push it back up hill into garage lol.
Same symptoms when it died fuel pump continued to run nonstop. could not connect with scanner. Multiple attempts to restart were unsuccessful. every time turned key forward pump runs nonstop. decided to pull the battery so i could pull the connection that goes through firewall to check it. Disconnected battery. While hunting for the socket for shits and giggles reconnected battery and tried to start truck. Fired right up. only ran for a couple min then died. hmmmm. Disconnect battery and reconnect. each time truck fired up. every time it died i tried turning key off and restart. never worked. but disconnecting and reconnecting battery started it right up.
Odd thing isI did hear a long of thunking noises after shutting truck off. Like the sound a bottle makes after crushing it. when you blow it up if that makes sense. Best way to describe it.
I get that Keel however If i could post a picture of the ford f150 forum i posted on i would.
Post went up day before i put one on here. so 10/10/17. Its already on page 2 over there and had 90 views no responses. I check daily. There is usually 90 to over a hundred people viewing that forum at any given time when ive checked. Not one person had posted.
This place is the only one with a great group of people. That ive found.
jmbishop- the fuse panel under the hood or the one in the cab? Havent looked to see where the pcm fuse is yet. Ill try that next. at least try to test it.
[This message has been edited by HIOSILVER! (edited 10-16-2017).]
I get that Keel however If i could post a picture of the ford f150 forum i posted on i would.
Post went up day before i put one on here. so 10/10/17. Its already on page 2 over there and had 90 views no responses. I check daily. There is usually 90 to over a hundred people viewing that forum at any given time when ive checked. Not one person had posted.
This place is the only one with a great group of people. That ive found.
So you'll take 2 pages of no real fix, over a forum that unless they can help you, don't post in your thread? Well, good luck, load up that parts cannon, again as spending money on parts is better than swallowing your pride and taking it to a ford dealer..
Tony - ill be looking into that tonight. As well as the fuse box.
Keel you dont know me i dont know you. I work full time day job from 630 to 3pm daily. 5 days a week. I work part time every other week as on call repairman for a company that does redemption. At their processing plant. I repair automation. And i also service their store drop off location technical issues. (unmanned stations). I also work for Advance Auto on EVERY single day that i dont have my kids. which is a 50/50 split. Averages about 20 hours a week.
I have a plowing business up here in maine. I do auto repair side work on the side for mostly friends and family. I have my girlfriends daughters car next in line to finish welding new rockers. And I just finished rebuilding my 75 year old parents sunporch for them for nothing. My dad is 75 and has been given 6 months and is on hospice.
I am divorced have a mortgage child support. This truck is my friends only means of transportation. And I have been sharing my vehicle till we can get it sorted out. So call me what you will at more then 100 dollars an hour for labor at the dealer it is something neither of us is in position to do. Or we would. if there was one around that i could trust.
And you missed the part about my post on the f150 forum having NO responses at all. No one there has offered one iota of help. It has only been here.
I dont know what exact issue you have had with me or this thread. Nor do i any longer care. I will continue to try to fix this POS truck for my friend. if your only position here is to call me a parts changer and to send huge amounts of money to my local ford dealer whom many so called techs i already know and dont trust. then your opinion while valid and you have every right to is neither helpful nor wanted. But as you have every right to your opinion. I thank you for your time in posting.
[This message has been edited by HIOSILVER! (edited 10-17-2017).]
blackram- I did replace both the pcm and fuel pump relay. there is however an issue. The previous owners velcroed the plow control box to the top of the box that has the relays. I will remove it and try it. However i did leave box open while trying the relays and that didnt have any effect. But it shouldnt be there anyway.
Are you here to offer sound advice? Tell me that you are here to offer sound advice.
Back on topic...
Something is grounding out. I still think it may be in the wiring on the firewall engine side.
On a side note: After the awesome used engine that I tried to put in my 1997 this spring, I pick up my remanufactured warrantied unit Friday.
I gave sound advise? either go to an active ford truck forum or "gasp" fb group. or go to the dealer .. but I guess pulling out hair and cursing the thing makes more sense to some.. I'm not a ford guy so I can't help other than normal electrical drill downs, and try'n another scanner to see if it links to the ecu.. but loading the cannon for the order to fire..
