President Trump and other Republicans have said repeatedly that one reason they have to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act is that the law is failing: Healthy people are abandoning the insurance marketplaces set up by the law, driving up costs and leading yet more people to drop insurance — a so-called “death spiral.” Many health insurance experts, however, have argued that those fears are overblown, and they recently got support from an unlikely source: the Trump administration itself.
The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which is part of the Department of Health and Human Services, last week released a report about a wonky aspect of the Affordable Care Act related to insurance payments. Tucked away in the report, however, was evidence that the health insurance marketplaces set up by Obamacare were relatively stable in 2016. Contrary to the “death-spiral” narrative, the CMS report found that the mix of healthy and sick people buying insurance on the Obamacare marketplaces in 2016 was surprisingly similar to those who enrolled in 2015.
Explaining what CMS found requires a dip in the sea of the actuarial terminology, so take a deep breath, we’ll be back up for air shortly. The report looked, in part, at so-called risk-adjustment payments, which are part of the ACA’s system for encouraging insurers to enroll high-cost patients. This system is meant to prevent insurers from cherry-picking the healthiest people on the market by collecting money from plans with healthier enrollees to distribute to plans that have people with higher health care costs. (Another type of payment discussed in the report, known as reinsurance, serves a similar purpose through a different mechanism: The government effectively covers part of the cost of patients with very expensive health needs.)
To determine the mix of healthy and sick enrollees for risk-adjustment payments, the federal government assigns risk scores to people based on their age, sex and health diagnosis and then averages the scores for a plan. What CMS found was that those averages were relatively stable in 2016. That’s a good sign for the marketplaces, because stabilizing the mix of healthy and sick people buying on the marketplaces goes a long way toward stabilizing prices. Despite expectations that in the face of rising premiums, healthier enrollees would be less inclined to enroll last year, that doesn’t appear to have been the case.
That doesn’t mean the marketplaces are working for everyone. There are millions of people who don’t qualify for subsidies, face high prices in the private market and likely haven’t enrolled in insurance as a result. That’s a problem that needs solving, but it’s a different problem than the marketplaces being in a death spiral.
It is important to note that yes, the ACA is not working for everyone, and absolutely needs to be fixed. However, it is not in the "death spiral" that the GOP has been claiming.
What would happen if the fixes never happen? Would the system grow and become strong and robust? Would it be able to stand on it's own and provide services that Americans need?
Via 538 It is important to note that yes, the ACA is not working for everyone, and absolutely needs to be fixed. However, it is not in the "death spiral" that the GOP has been claiming.
Then why is Health insurers leaving,? Why is much of Ohio without any insurers..? Why are many of the States exchanges bankrupt? Why, When an idea is floundering Do many think throwing more funds at it will magicly fix it? Why, When a service is totally a mess, Do some want to only try to bandaids on it? Why, not put it back to the way it was, before the ACA and just have the Government pay the hospitals for those that go to the er with no insurance.. And take the cost out of those peoples returns.. no health insurance, you have to claim zero.. And the government pays your med bills out of your return.. Simple.. I know, many will not like that as it mean it come out of their money.. but tuff..
Then why is Health insurers leaving,? Why is much of Ohio without any insurers..? Why are many of the States exchanges bankrupt? Why, When an idea is floundering Do many think throwing more funds at it will magicly fix it? Why, When a service is totally a mess, Do some want to only try to bandaids on it? Why, not put it back to the way it was, before the ACA and just have the Government pay the hospitals for those that go to the er with no insurance.. And take the cost out of those peoples returns.. no health insurance, you have to claim zero.. And the government pays your med bills out of your return.. Simple.. I know, many will not like that as it mean it come out of their money.. but tuff..
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:
All the above...it IS imploding. Ohio had ONE provider...who now is leaving. Sooooooooooo.......= no coverages.
Just more fake news....provided by hillary/obuma lovers.
This is why your Republican governor is against the GOP bill in Congress, and expanded medicare under the ACA?Source He also said that you can't just "get rid of Obamacare", and repeal it. Source
If Obamacare truly was imploding in Ohio, wouldn't your governor want it repealed as quickly as possible?
The fact is, none of the insurers are leaving the market until 2018. Rushing the bill through the government is not the solution. Currently, democrats are being completely blocked out of the process, which is asinine. Republicans have plenty of time to bring a bill to the senate and create a bipartisian solution to Obamacare. An update and fixes are absolutely necessary. Remember when Democrats closed the door to Republicans when working on the ACA? Oh wait, that didn't happen.
quote
But with Obama’s blessing, the Senate, through its Finance Committee, took a different tack, and became the fulcrum for a potential grand bargain on health reform. Chairman Max Baucus, in the spring of 2009, signaled his desire to find a bipartisan compromise, working especially closely with Grassley, his dear friend and Republican counterpart, who had been deeply involved in crafting the Republican alternative to Clintoncare. Baucus and Grassley convened an informal group of three Democrats and three Republicans on the committee, which became known as the “Gang of Six.” They covered the parties’ ideological bases; the other GOPers were conservative Mike Enzi of Wyoming and moderate Olympia Snowe of Maine, and the Democrats were liberal Jeff Bingaman of New Mexico and moderate Kent Conrad of North Dakota.
Baucus very deliberately started the talks with a template that was the core of the 1993-4 Republican plan, built around an individual mandate and exchanges with private insurers—much to the chagrin of many Democrats and liberals who wanted, if not a single-payer system, at least one with a public insurance option. Through the summer, the Gang of Six engaged in detailed discussions and negotiations to turn a template into a plan. But as the summer wore along, it became clear that something had changed; both Grassley and Enzi began to signal that participation in the talks—and their demands for changes in the evolving plan—would not translate into a bipartisan agreement.
If Obama started with a bipartisan committee in the senate, why can't the republicans?
[This message has been edited by Threedog (edited 07-07-2017).]
This sums it up for me- i had heathcare before retardcare- havent had it since. Go back to the way it was. The repubs are tards too cuz they had all this time to come up w something better and they havent. Go back to the way it was. People have to be responsible for wiping their own ass. The big problem is the cost, they need to set reasonable prices at the hospitals. I had to go to the emergency room 5 times for my back, it was around $1500 each trip for them to see me for 30 mins after waiting for 2-3 hours. I had to get an mri that was $2500, and a spinal injection from a specialist for about the same. Not too mention I couldnt work for 6 months, sleep for 1.5, so I lost a fortune there too. Yeah I really miss my $150 a month plan that woulda covered all that. F@#$ obama and everything he did
$147 before ACA or what ever it is actually called. Less than $150 a month for insurance. It sounds like actual heaven compared to the nearly $480 I pay now. But hey, I am white, I should pay for mine, yours, and the retard down the street easily right?
Yeah im white too buddy itd be around $600 for less coverage than I had before here in beautiful california. Ill keep my fingers crossed and keep bitchin lol. and take it really easy at work, not much choice now. Shemdogg broke
Those like the O/p liberal progressives.. Don't want the ACA touched, They want it to fail.... As that makes or moves us to single payer.. Automaticly making 1/3rd the economy a socialist economy.. Getting them 1/3rd the way to their plan of total socialist .. but but but it'll work this time, we promise...
Obama care (ACA) only got that 1/3rd economy 1/2 the way to socialistic orgasm .. They want to put band-aids on the ACA , As they know there is no stopping it circling the drain.. But it'll "look" to the sheeple that they "tried".. Gotta keep that voter love.. Bro..
Before Obama care my family plan was 600.00 a month.. now it is 1456.72 Odd type of affordable if you ask me..
I love how every time I post on this forum, no one can back up a single thing with a reputable news source, fact, or argument. No one discusses the issues, no responds to the claims, its just "you're wrong", a random argument that is unrelated, anecdotal evidence, and "did you seriously write that??"
Its funny that I hear on here so often that it is liberals who ignore the facts. Well, really? Did anyone even read any of the things I posted? Or is the 8th grade reading level of the NYTimes too high for you?
[This message has been edited by Threedog (edited 07-08-2017).]
Key Obamacare subsidies end this year, 2017. Insurance companies are dropping out of the marketplaces all around the country because it is no longer economically viable. This piece of crap legislation was planned to fail which is why they put a time limit on many of the subsidies. It was a ticking time bomb from the beginning. That way the Democrats can push for single payer after they royally ****ed up our healthcare system.
I love how every time I post on this forum, no one can back up a single thing with a reputable news source, fact, or argument. No one discusses the issues, no responds to the claims, its just "you're wrong", a random argument that is unrelated, anecdotal evidence, and "did you seriously write that??"
Its funny that I hear on here so often that it is liberals who ignore the facts. Well, really? Did anyone even read any of the things I posted? Or is the 8th grade reading level of the NYTimes too high for you?
I doubt you "love" any (comments) answers you get on here. But I did notice that I did post a direct and relative rebuttal to your question. And like your complaint above, you could not answer it, (as usual)...and I assume I used 4th grade reading level........ for no other reason than simplicity.
Here it is again, just in case the relatively faint chance you accually answer questions your self. (you accused others of no answere, but I see none from you....regularly) It is not a hard question, or a cruel jab at you. Just a simple rebuttal to your question.
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
What would happen if the fixes never happen? Would the system grow and become strong and robust? Would it be able to stand on it's own and provide services that Americans need?
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 07-08-2017).]
Key Obamacare subsidies end this year, 2017. Insurance companies are dropping out of the marketplaces all around the country because it is no longer economically viable. This piece of crap legislation was planned to fail which is why they put a time limit on many of the subsidies. It was a ticking time bomb from the beginning. That way the Democrats can push for single payer after they royally ****ed up our healthcare system.
It was definitely a Democratic plan to introduce and implement the ACA slowly and over the terms of a few Presidential cycles. (It's full implementation has not come to frustration yet and they started this thing in obama's first term) I guess the reason was to threaten the Voters into keeping Democrats in office for the purpose of tweaking it. The threat is that Republicans would not maintain the impossibly complex law, and therefore it would die and people would have no insurance. Ironically, the longer it lives, the fewer people it insures, even with the Democrats making the "necessary changes"
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 07-08-2017).]
Originally posted by Threedog: ... is the 8th grade reading level of the NYTimes too high for you?
bullzhit is bullzhit no matter the reading level. The NY Times, CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, are all bullzhit. I do not read their tabloids.
Your Investers Buisiness Daily link I did read. A hint for you. Don't believe everything you read, and only half the things you see. More importantly, don't believe everything you think.
I never again wanted to be a salesman after one stint. The Dumbs claim that 20 Million will be thrown off of insurance. What a farce, . The Dumb claims of NobamaCare came as true as the Dumb claims of Climate Change Global Warming.
The Dumbs don't hate President Trump. They are scared Americans will find out the conservative idea will make America great again and that they will be exposed as failures, never to get power again.
We dont like the Ohio governor, so what he wants is immaterial.
Obumacare is not 'going' to implode... it HAS already here. If you had Obumacare, you now have NO coverage...even if your still paying. At least Trump now gives you the option of not paying with no penalty. Anyone in Ohio anyway, who is still paying for their coverage is an idiot. Its like getting a car loan and paying the payments even though you never got the car.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 07-08-2017).]
Its funny that I hear on here so often that it is liberals who ignore the facts. Well, really? Did anyone even read any of the things I posted? Or is the 8th grade reading level of the NYTimes too high for you?
Yeah we read them.
Slowly, what with our 4th grade reading abilities, but we do read them.
Problem is, when you made this comment knowing full well how Obamacare passed without any Republican input, it's pretty hard to take anything you post seriously:
quote
Originally posted by Threedog: Currently, democrats are being completely blocked out of the process, which is asinine.
I'm trying to not fly off the handle too badly here, but are you aware of the fact that there are some areas that now don't even HAVE an Obamacare option anymore?
NY Times and Washington Post WRITE on 5th grade level. Pretty much anything in them besides ads is liberal propaganda. Liberals operate daily on 5th grade intelligence.
You're right Ricky, I didn't respond to you, and that is my fault. I read through the majority of the responses and lost my patience.
To respond, I agree that Obamacare is broken. I don't think it is sustainable in the long term. However, that doesnt mean it is imploding. Does it need fixes? Yes. It needs to be fixed. However, many republicans are calling for a straight repeal. We don't need that. We have plenty of time for both sides to sit down and work it out, just like how it was originally written.
People are eager to just repeal, but they prior system was disastrous. No protections against pre existing conditions, few incentives to expand the system to cover those who are poor. I knew of people who could not get insurance(no matter how much they paid), simply because they had bad genetics. No one deserves to be punished for their genes like that.
Yes, Obamacare needs fixing, but acting like it's going to destroy this country if it's not repealed immediately is not the right course of action, and many republicans are acting that way.
NY Times and Washington Post WRITE on 5th grade level. Pretty much anything in them besides ads is liberal propaganda. Liberals operate daily on 5th grade intelligence.
Lowest common denominator will reach the most people. It's what they all do. Those who are higher educated will understand it too.
I love how every time I post on this forum, no one can back up a single thing with a reputable news source, fact, or argument. No one discusses the issues, no responds to the claims, its just "you're wrong", a random argument that is unrelated, anecdotal evidence, and "did you seriously write that??"
Its funny that I hear on here so often that it is liberals who ignore the facts. Well, really? Did anyone even read any of the things I posted? Or is the 8th grade reading level of the NYTimes too high for you?
My favorite is when they accuse everyone of dodging one of their questions..
Every reply to your question in this topic so far, as just been an attempt to dodge and deflect.. lol..
My favorite is when they accuse everyone of dodging one of their questions..
Every reply to your question in this topic so far, as just been an attempt to dodge and deflect.. lol..
Funny stuff.
Again, I attempted to make a discussion and post my facts. Both of you liberal **** suckers missed the posts, and deflected to fake news. WE do not believe you any longer. Stick a finger in you azz for being one. When you grow up and quit posting ONLY acccusations then I will listen to you. Until then, like stated, stick a finger up you azz.
****ing kunts these days. What next Jonesy, going to tell me I am a racist.
You're right Ricky, I didn't respond to you, and that is my fault. I read through the majority of the responses and lost my patience.
Thank you for a reply. I mentioned in my comment that you frequently fail to answer questions and comments. You don't have to answer, BUT not answering IS an answer and I hope that you can answer more often. Don't let silence speak for you, it may be a horrible spokesperson.
quote
To respond, I agree that Obamacare is broken. I don't think it is sustainable in the long term. However, that doesnt mean it is imploding. Does it need fixes? Yes. It needs to be fixed.
This is both an incomplete answer and confusing. It is "broken", OK, so is it falling apart or imploding? Is there really a difference in metaphorical politically correct terms? My question is, "what if the fixes do not happen?" "Will it be able to provide services Americans need?" As it is, without anymore bandaid patches.
quote
We have plenty of time for both sides to sit down and work it out, just like how it was originally written.
I don't believe that it was purposefully written for bipartisan cooperative collaboration. At the time of its conception, the Government was already DEEPLY divided. The law was HEAVILY influenced (if not solely) influenced by Democrats. IF the law was written for the purpose of modifying,....then it should never have been passed or enacted.
quote
Yes, Obamacare needs fixing, but....
Again, this does not answer my questions.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 07-08-2017).]
Besides, who am I to care about the money that I spend on my medical care? Oh yeah, a tax paying voting appropriate citizen with no felonies or negations upon my person.
Wait till jan 2018 if it isn't the start of fiscal 2018.. Isn't The O/P a state employee? That means his union backed health coverage/insurance. So listed as a cadillac plan. And gets a special tax added to them.. I'm Sure you'll still bow at the altar of obamacare when this happens O/P.. When your paying the Feds at tax time.. thousands of dollars because of your union Cadillac health insurance.. Like all the dem's said ," we had to pass it to see what is in it" Seems you didn't bother, and are still blind to the fact that all the dem's in d.c. Screwed you royally. Cause remember not one rep. signed off for obamacare. So the screwing you are about to receive is all from your liberal buddies.. I made sure I wrote this at a 6th grade level, As I don't want to upset the o/p (snowflake) ,as he/she will be triggered soon enough about the fee's and tax fines caused by his/her's Cadillac health insurance plan..
My guess is the o/p and everyone else with no gray matter useage will get triggered and blame the rep's and trump.. But we are the knuckle draggers with a 6th grade level. Priceless..
[This message has been edited by Keel (edited 07-08-2017).]
Wait till jan 2018 if it isn't the start of fiscal 2018.. Isn't The O/P a state employee? That means his union backed health coverage/insurance. So listed as a cadillac plan. And gets a special tax added to them.. I'm Sure you'll still bow at the altar of obamacare when this happens O/P.. When your paying the Feds at tax time.. thousands of dollars because of your union Cadillac health insurance.. Like all the dem's said ," we had to pass it to see what is in it" Seems you didn't bother, and are still blind to the fact that all the dem's in d.c. Screwed you royally. Cause remember not one rep. signed off for obamacare. So the screwing you are about to receive is all from your liberal buddies.. I made sure I wrote this at a 6th grade level, As I don't want to upset the o/p (snowflake) ,as he/she will be triggered soon enough about the fee's and tax fines caused by his/her's Cadillac health insurance plan..
My guess is the o/p and everyone else with no gray matter useage will get triggered and blame the rep's and trump.. But we are the knuckle draggers with a 6th grade level. Priceless..
Last I heard, union healthcare plans are exempt from that tax? But then, the law has been in a constant state of change sense it's conception, LONG before it was law. So I don't know if that is currently the case or not.
You're right Ricky, I didn't respond to you, and that is my fault. I read through the majority of the responses and lost my patience.
To respond, I agree that Obamacare is broken. I don't think it is sustainable in the long term. However, that doesnt mean it is imploding. Does it need fixes? Yes. It needs to be fixed. However, many republicans are calling for a straight repeal. We don't need that. We have plenty of time for both sides to sit down and work it out, just like how it was originally written.
People are eager to just repeal, but they prior system was disastrous. No protections against pre existing conditions, few incentives to expand the system to cover those who are poor. I knew of people who could not get insurance(no matter how much they paid), simply because they had bad genetics. No one deserves to be punished for their genes like that.
Yes, Obamacare needs fixing, but acting like it's going to destroy this country if it's not repealed immediately is not the right course of action, and many republicans are acting that way.
You're focusing on the name. The entire program needs to be revamped. At that point, you can call it whatever you want. Maybe you'll call it AHCA, or maybe you'll call it Trump care.
Biggest problem is that you are forcing men to carry prenatal care... and so we're clear, that doesn't mean so their wives have pregnancy care. The care is useless to males because we cannot get pregnant. Likewise, 80 year old women are also required by law to carry pregnancy care.
And then there's the insurance across state lines thing... (doesn't exist). That's a huge reason why costs have gone up.
I mean, there are so many things wrong with it.
We just need to be realistic about what you're asking here. You want it to be fixed so that it keeps it's name and Obama's legacy. Maybe people also want to get rid of it so they can destroy that "legacy"... but either way, the entire thing is total **** and needs to be completely re-written. It's already beyond the point of being unsustainable... it's collapsed in several states. So let's not bull **** ...
You're right Ricky, I didn't respond to you, and that is my fault. I read through the majority of the responses and lost my patience.
To respond, I agree that Obamacare is broken. I don't think it is sustainable in the long term. However, that doesnt mean it is imploding. Does it need fixes? Yes. It needs to be fixed. However, many republicans are calling for a straight repeal. We don't need that. We have plenty of time for both sides to sit down and work it out, just like how it was originally written.
People are eager to just repeal, but they prior system was disastrous. No protections against pre existing conditions, few incentives to expand the system to cover those who are poor. I knew of people who could not get insurance(no matter how much they paid), simply because they had bad genetics. No one deserves to be punished for their genes like that.
Yes, Obamacare needs fixing, but acting like it's going to destroy this country if it's not repealed immediately is not the right course of action, and many republicans are acting that way.
ObamaCare is failing and there are no compromises that will get past both side of the aisle in Congress.
What I don't understand is why do you and Liberals think the rest of us are responsible for the welfare and health of those who either choose to not insure themselves or simply can not afford it. Yeah, I know, I'm an unsympathetic jerk. Well, kind of. I donate to certain charities but, the US government is not one of them I willing give to especially, when it's in the form of a mandatory tax function.
I've got no problem with those who support ObamaCare paying for it but, you and those who support it need to step up and pay for it yourselves. I'll continue to donate to those charities I agree with, some of them do involve health care issues but, I have a problem with Liberals who always want to spend other people's money. And that is precisely what they always want to do. ObamaCare is not necessarily a bad idea but very poorly thought out and (as usual) poorly executed by the US government.
Everyone dies, even you and I, you pay for whatever you support and allow me to support what I agree with.
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun.... Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.
I sincerely hope that life is never discovered on another planet because, sure as hell Progressives and Socialists will want to send them money.
My favorite is when they accuse everyone of dodging one of their questions..
Every reply to your question in this topic so far, as just been an attempt to dodge and deflect.. lol..
Funny stuff.
You are clearly a liar, or an extreme exaggerater. My questions had nothing to do with dodging. It was a very straight forward, to the point direct set of questions.
Not funny at all.
In fact, Jonesy, you give an answer to my questions,...THAT will be funny stuff. Use your standard, don't dodge or redirect. You could even respond to the OP remarks: is it a lie to say that the ACA law is imploding? Then explain your answer without dodging or redirecting.
You, Jonesy, have made no fruitful contributions to this thread, BUT you could make an attempt at it.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 07-09-2017).]
......I donate to certain charities but, the US government is not one of them I willing give to especially, when it's in the form of a mandatory tax function.
.....I'll continue to donate to those charities I agree with, some of them do involve health care issues but, I have a problem with Liberals who always want to spend other people's money.
Good points.
It isn't *charity* when it is mandated by government and enforced at the barrel of a government gun.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 07-09-2017).]
. The Dumb claims of NobamaCare came as true as the Dumb claims of 
