Hey guys, just a small question here. as ive said before I drive for fedex freight and its the 1st job I've ever had that I can honestly say im proud to put on my uniform and go to work for the night. I make a very good pay check and get to work with a great group of people. That being said The teamsters have been making there way around our local facility's and also the hub where im transferring to. East Philadelphia Just voted them in the other day and ciniminsion NJ had a vote and rejected them. A few more are scheduled to vote within the coming months and I'm really worried it could screw up my job. anyone have any incite to this I've never been in a union before much less delt with one being voted into an existing non union work place.
There are good and bad points to any union. For me it's down to management. Bad management will usually result in a union. Good management is the way to stop a union. My last job at a company called USA 3000 Airlines was under the Teamster's airline division. We needed a union due to our crazy management. But if you look at places like Nissan in Smyrna, TN, they rejected the UAW. They have good management and are happy workers. Are you happy with your management?
Follow your conscious. Do you agree with strong arm tactics used by unions ? Do you believe they should use your money to elect politicians you might not elect ? The union favors getting rid of the secret ballot. So they can target those that don't vote them in. Do you think your vote is the business of anyone else ? Listen to your common sense. What can a union do for you that you can not do for yourself. Health benefits used to be one of their most attractive offerings. Thanks to the NobamaCare they supported, which they now want no part of, everybody has health benefits. Do they like to operate in a cloud of secrecy (even though they want open ballots) ? Keep us informed. Let us know their selling pressure points. Share your insights with us.
Follow your conscious. Do you agree with strong arm tactics used by unions ? Do you believe they should use your money to elect politicians you might not elect ? The union favors getting rid of the secret ballot. So they can target those that don't vote them in. Do you think your vote is the business of anyone else ? Listen to your common sense. What can a union do for you that you can not do for yourself. Health benefits used to be one of their most attractive offerings. Thanks to the NobamaCare they supported, which they now want no part of, everybody has health benefits. Do they like to operate in a cloud of secrecy (even though they want open ballots) ? Keep us informed. Let us know their selling pressure points. Share your insights with us.
Strong arm tactics used by unions? Damn son, why don't you present a one-sided view? I'm surprised you did not bring up Jimmy Hoffa. what can a union do that you can't do for yourself? How about fight back against an ass-hat manager? Someone who has no problem violating Federal law then blaming you when you get caught. Every organization has it's good and bad points. Your blatant one-sided propaganda is shameful. I hope he sees your argument for what it is. Total BS.
Originally posted by Hudini: Strong arm tactics used by unions? Damn son, why don't you present a one-sided view?
I did not see you present that view. Do you deny they exist ?
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Originally posted by Hudini: What can a union do that you can't do for yourself? How about fight back against an ass-hat manager?
It saddens me when I see weak nillied individuals. I am thankful I am not one of them. I might be kinda' famous on this forum for my "quit my job" threads. Many fight backs I have had, I did not have to quit. Some "quits" I did had followers. Checking back with other coworkers after some quits, they said they saw a different attitude from management. Some quits I had did not disqualify me for unemployment benefits. No one would catch me violating federal law and I will not be told to do so. I am not scared of getting fired, especially for refusing to violate federal law, .
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Originally posted by Hudini: Your blatant one-sided propaganda is shameful. I hope he sees your argument for what it is. Total BS.
Shameful ? BS ? . When is the truth and facts shameful and BS ?
I really hate to burst you guys bubble but UPS has been union for a very long time at many of its places and so far those places that are represented by the Teamsters are doing just fine. but it has never been a nationwide closed shop !
I have been a worker in union and non union shops over my over 30 years working and some are good some are bad, most are somewhere in the middle and just out to help the workers, what you want to do is find out if the place you are working at will be a closed shop or open?
Open gives you the benefit of all the union representation without ever having to pay union dues, protection from wrongful termination and pay razes as well as many other union benefits even if you are not a union member. That is a fact, no matter what those union haters here tell you, you are given union protection and benefits even if you do not join the union, if it comes to pass.
If it is a closed shop and the union does come to pass you will have to join the union and pay union dues, depending on the state you are in will depend on whether or not it is open or closed. As a general rule of thumb, bellow the Masson Dixon line its open, north of it most are closed, most not all. Some states have gone the union busting route of open shops that limits union membership and strength by making union members pay union dues and non union members get all the rights, benefits and help of a union. Something I don't think should be allowed. If you don't want the union there you should not be allowed the unions protection and benefits. That is how the politicians help to brake a union in their state.
Contrary to union haters beliefs union dues is usually just 2 hours pay at your regular hourly rate per month and a joining fee, depending on the union it can vary a lot, being out of the work force as long as I have I can't tell you for sure just how much any of those costs will be but you will know long before it comes to a vote just how much dues and the initial joining fee will be and they will simply take that out of your pay when and if you join.
Teamsters Union dues are 2.5 times the hourly wage rate per month. For example, if you make $12 an hour, your dues would be $30 per month. However, if you make less than $11 an hour, then your dues rate is 2 times your hourly rate. And if you are a public sector employee, your dues rate is 2.25 times your hourly rate.
Also, some locals may charge initiation fees and these vary by location. Talk to a local union representative for details.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 10-18-2014).]
Originally posted by 84fiero123: Open gives you the benefit of all the union representation without ever having to pay union dues, protection from wrongful termination and pay razes as well as many other union benefits even if you are not a union member. That is a fact, no matter what those union haters here tell you, you are given union protection and benefits even if you do not join the union
Please tell us some more untruths. Will a union provide a non union member with an attorney if the non union member decides to sue the employer ? Will the union members walk off the job in support of a non union member, or even pressure management before a walk off is needed ? Will a union give a non union member a job with another company if he get's fired ? Or pay between jobs ?
Please tell us some more untruths. Will a union provide a non union member with an attorney if the non union member decides to sue the employer ? Will the union members walk off the job in support of a non union member, or even pressure management before a walk off is needed ? Will a union give a non union member a job with another company if he get's fired ? Or pay between jobs ?
Cliff I have worked in open shops that had both union and non union members and yes they do get a lawyer, all are able to use union shop stewards, union lawyers to protect them whether they are paying union members or not When I was in TN. Working for an AC manufacturer in the AFL/CIO Foundry workers union and yes all people working in the shop whether union members or not were protected by the union.
I am shocked Steve. If I were a due paying union member I would be pissed. No wonder union membership is declining. What privileges do they offer to entice someone to join ? It is wrong to require someone to join a union to get a job.
I am shocked Steve. If I were a due paying union member I would be pissed. No wonder union membership is declining. What privileges do they offer to entice someone to join ? It is wrong to require someone to join a union to get a job.
That is all the work of the state representatives who want to destroy unions and how they are doing it, they make these laws that require the union to cover non union members in the same factory have to be protected by the union, whether they are members or not. That is exactly what I have the problem with as far as these open shops are in states that allow them, don't like working in a union shop, don't work there. But the state reps in states that don't want any unions make these laws that make them have to give union representation to all workers in the shop no matter if they are union members or not and one of the reasons union membership is so low, why join if you are still protected by the union even if you are not a member.
Look up any states laws about open shop laws in union shops, they are all the same.
In my, admittedly short, experience, the Teamsters union as a whole is kinda sketchy, but like everything else, what you deal with locally is largely based on local dynamics. If you work in a shop with good steward/management relationships you will only have minor issues(If any at all) to deal with, if you have a good steward with crooked management or vice/versa, you're screwed.
Originally posted by 84fiero123: That is exactly what I have the problem with as far as these open shops are in states that allow them, don't like working in a union shop, don't work there.
Now we are getting somewhere. What makes it a union shop ? Don't like working for a company, don't work there. You rail against the laws which make unions protect everyone, yet herald laws which allows union to co own "shops". If the unions are so good why don't they start their own companies ? They claim to have the best and brightest workers ? Surely instead of spending billions in campaign bribes, they could start companies.
Now we are getting somewhere. What makes it a union shop ? Don't like working for a company, don't work there. You rail against the laws which make unions protect everyone, yet herald laws which allows union to co own "shops". If the unions are so good why don't they start their own companies ? They claim to have the best and brightest workers ? Surely instead of spending billions in campaign bribes, they could start companies.
Is a union required to represent all employees covered by a contract (nonmembers as well as members)?
Yes. Under federal labor law, unions have the duty to fairly represent all workers covered by a contract. That means nonmembers as well as members get the same wages, hours and working conditions established by the contract. Unions must bargain for everyone and enforce the contract terms for everyone in a fair, honest, nondiscriminatory manner. Unions cannot refuse to pay the costs of arbitrating a grievance simply because it involves a nonmember. A union that violates this duty of fair representation can be sued. This duty of fair representation applies whether or not the state has a right to work law.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 10-18-2014).]
It is wrong to require someone to join a union to get a job.
Its also ( morally ) wrong to force a union to 'support' a non union worker since they did not pay for the 'support' by choice ( which i agree, they should have that right ). But it happens and is unavoidable. A few places i worked the 'hourly' was unionized ( and a couple more where they kicked them to the curb.. ) and us salaried people got raises purely out of spite due to union negotiations.. So in effect they did 'support us', in an indirect manner.
As long as unions exist, there is no easy answer, unfortunately.
Management needs to make more than their employees otherwise why be a manager? When I was a Trainmaster for the Union Pacific (non union manager) I was paid very well and the reason was because my crews were also paid well. Simple as that.
With my airline, the Teamsters negotiated a contract that stated one did not have to join the union, but dues would still be collected from their paycheck.
And don't forget that UPS is represented by the Teamsters also.
Originally posted by Hudini: With my airline, the Teamsters negotiated a contract that stated one did not have to join the union, but dues would still be collected from their paycheck. .
Which is also a bad situation.
I'm not saying what the 'correct' answer is when you have unions involved, but no situation currently is "equitable".
And i'm not saying the concept of unions is bad by definition, however many have become evil over time and have strayed from their original intent of protecting the worker. Also, their need to exist due to 'safety and labor' regulations at the federal level ( and simple capitalist competition ) is greatly diminished.
If you are fairly new employee (low seniority) with a strong work ethic (good skills, hard working) and a desire to advance quickly... the last thing you want is a union.
See here's the thing. management our of my center is pretty good. for the most part its all older adults (35+) and there usually very fair in there dealings. out of all the centers in my immediate area ours has seen the least union activity of them all. The reason for that being is they guy who operates our facility is a really nice fellow, He does not get bent out of shape if someone forgets to lock a truck or dings a trailer while backing up. If its something major he tells you and corrects it without taking it to a write up that could cost you your job, However Other centers, I have ran into management personal that are younger than me. rule of thumb at freight is you start off part time as a fork lift jockey, once your offered full time you either put on a red shirt and become management or you get trained for your CDL and become a driver. the catch is drivers are paid a lot better than managers for the most part unless you have been a manager for a very long time. typically someone becomes a manager because there is something on there driving history that keeps them from getting a CDL. now these manager's hold a drivers job in there hand. I personally have not had an issue with any one of them i've dinged a trailer or 2 in south Newark NJ (the worst fedex hub out there space wise) and was honest about it and had no writes ups over it, But some other drivers has lost there job over some manager having a chip on there shoulder. I think this is what is driving the union push. I personally don't want one in my center but if it happens it happens (I'm transferring to Houston soon which I hear has also filed for a vote) we'll see what happens. I like my job and the people I work with. some of these guys are pushing this for stupid little things like being gated after someone of lesser seniority than them ill keep you all informed.
If you are fairly new employee (low seniority) with a strong work ethic (good skills, hard working) and a desire to advance quickly... the last thing you want is a union.
It should be yes. It does not always work out that way. When I was an 18 year old high school graduate I worked for Matlock Trailer in Nashville, TN. I built axles for the big furniture mover trailers like you see with United Van Lines. I fit everything you describe, low seniority, good skills, hard working, and wish to advance. I built my axles quick enough that I had a stack the rest of the department could not keep up with. My reward? I got moved around to other departments to supplement their needs if someone laid off that day. And which jobs did I get? The dirtiest, crappiest, most unwanted jobs that were the reason that job was unfilled that day (stuff like spraying undercoating that gets all over you too). Great. Being a union job, I informed my supervisor that I wished to exercise my seniority rights and have someone of lower seniority do this crappy job and I would take their place somewhere else.
My point is simply that all it takes to destroy a good job is a bad manager, no matter how good you are personally. You can take the easy way out and quit, sure. Some of us are not quitters though.
If you are fairly new employee (low seniority) with a strong work ethic (good skills, hard working) and a desire to advance quickly... the last thing you want is a union.
Unions help new guys too.
People tend to forget the good things some Unions do just as easily as other people forget the bad things they do.
I don't think Fed Ex should be Unionized, I've been contracted out of many of their terminals, running packages as a "common carrier". On average very nice places, well managed with happy workers. But it's just an opinion. Fed Ex also tends to hire "unskilled" fill in labor quite often and you can really tell those drivers. Having more control would help safety.
I could not care less about union or non-union. I've worked in both types of facilities. A good company management team can handle any bad union up to a certain point. . A union with good leaders can be a very good thing for it's members and the company. A union with bad leadership can, will and does put people out of work, eventually it will shut down a work place. The Teamsters don't have what I would call good leadership.
------------------ Ron Count Down to A Better America: http://countingdownto.com/countdown/196044 Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug
Management needs to make more than their employees otherwise why be a manager? When I was a Trainmaster for the Union Pacific (non union manager) I was paid very well and the reason was because my crews were also paid well. Simple as that.
With my airline, the Teamsters negotiated a contract that stated one did not have to join the union, but dues would still be collected from their paycheck.
And don't forget that UPS is represented by the Teamsters also.
Very true as well, line workers get paid so much, absentees get a little more and so on up to the Forman who must always earn a little more than all the employees under him. So when the workers get a raise in a union shop so does the Forman, he never has to even ask for it, at least that is how it has been at all the union jobs I have ever worked.
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Originally posted by blackrams: I could not care less about union or non-union. I've worked in both types of facilities. A good company management team can handle any bad union up to a certain point. . A union with good leaders can be a very good thing for it's members and the company. A union with bad leadership can, will and does put people out of work, eventually it will shut down a work place. The Teamsters don't have what I would call good leadership.
I agree with all you said, it is never the local union that destroys a union or a company it is the guys at the top, for the most part anyway, sure you get those who got elected as union reps who just wanted to get out of work and never do anything. I have worked one job in the teamsters and did not like the way they ran things at the top but that was the top and being I was only there less than a year I really didn't have much experience with the local reps or upper management of the union. So my experience with them and the way they did things was very limited so I can't say much about them as it was not during any type of union negotiations or had any grievances with the company or them against me. As far as your representation most of the local reps, comity men they will get elected from the men you work with on a day to day basis and can be good or bad or somewhere in between. They will be your lawyer when the SHTF so to speak and if they are knowledgeable and want to help you, you will have a good experience with them and the union.
One thing you will have to deal with is the seniority thing, those guys who have been there longer will for the most part get the better jobs, I am not sure how that will sit with you as you are really low man on the pole and if it comes to getting laid off the last hired will be the first to go. That may or may not work to your advantage, as it doesn't mater how good you are at your job when layoffs happen and I know you kids don't like that, some like Wichita feel they are doing a better job than everyone else and they should never get laid off and should always get the best jobs and never be laid off because they do the best work of anyone, at least that's what he thinks anyway from the time he started. in his mind anyway, we will never know the truth about that job at the aircraft factory he worked at but I would be willing to bet he ran off at the mouth there just like he does here degrading everyone else in the shop and pissed more than a few people off.
Steve
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 10-19-2014).]
I personally know an individual who has been a Teamster for 35 years. His retirement is being delayed because the union has not used his retirement funds properly and his retirement account is underfunded..........
Originally posted by Hudini: You can take the easy way out and quit, sure. Some of us are not quitters though.
Quitting is the easy way out, ? Sure, if you don't have bills to pay nor need to eat. Not just bills but BILLS too. Mortgages, credit rating to protect, vehicle repossession worries, savings for the future and retirement. Sure, if you don't mind having to try and get a job with "quit without notice" on your resume.
Based on your state laws, you may not be required to join the union to remain working where you are. Joining a union will mean you have to pay dues, but they may negotiate higher wages to offset these costs to you. A union could help you if you face discipline charges, but they may not be able to help you keep your job depending on your state's laws. Having to join a union member is not the end of the world. They aren't as effective or as necessary as they used to be, but it wouldn't hurt you to join.
Originally posted by cliffw: Sure, if you don't mind having to try and get a job with "quit without notice" on your resume.
That never affected me ever getting another job, hell I have dragged out of more construction jobs than most people today even will ever have. It's the nature of the beast if you want to make more money. The companies know it and to be honest the companies never had any trouble laying me off without any notice so why the hell should I care what they think of my quitting without notice. But then I always had another job waiting for me to show up before I ever quit. Steve
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 10-19-2014).]
As workers see the corruption with the unions and blanket sell out to the Democratic party, they don't want to belong to those type of organizations, Jimmy Hoffa left a legacy of union corruption along with those who followed him.
For those workers who are unable to perform their jobs competently, the union is there to insure they have a job and can continue to fund the union coffers.
As workers see the corruption with the unions and blanket sell out to the Democratic party, they don't want to belong to those type of organizations, Jimmy Hoffa left a legacy of union corruption along with those who followed him.
For those workers who are unable to perform their jobs competently, the union is there to insure they have a job and can continue to fund the union coffers.
How about the corruption of the corporations and their top CEO's? Think about all those great corporate leaders like Henry Ford. Who by his own acts made the need for unions a absolute necessity to keep a job even if you were a good worker if you didn't show up for his after work parties you would be fired or believed in a different god.
"I regard Henry Ford as my inspiration" - Adolph Hitler, 1931
"When you think of Ford, you think of baseball and apple pie," said Miriam Kleinman, a researcher with the Washington law firm of Cohen, Millstein and Hausfeld, who spent weeks examining records at the National Archives in an attempt to build a Nazi slave labor case against the Dearborn-based company. "You don't think of Hitler having a portrait of Henry Ford on his office wall in Munich." source - washingtonpost.com
All were thieves, plain and simple, yet you think companies don't need checks and balances to give workers their fair share. Well then how about Bernie, was he also one of your hero's?
The Madoff investment scandal broke in December 2008, when former NASDAQ Chairman Bernard Madoff admitted that the wealth management arm of his business was an elaborate Ponzi scheme.
Madoff founded the Wall Street firm Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC in 1960, and was its Chairman until his arrest.[1][2][3] At his firm he employed his brother Peter as Senior Managing Director and Chief Compliance Officer (Peter has since been sentenced to 10 years in prison), Peter's daughter Shana Madoff as the firm's rules and compliance officer and attorney, and his sons Andrew and Mark (Mark committed suicide by hanging exactly two years after his father's arrest).
When ever big money is involved and corporations have no checks and balances like labor unions willing to fight for the workers we will have things like these happening. Think the laws will protect the workers, sure after the fact, after they are dead. If we forget the past we are doomed to repeat it and if we allow unions to disappear we will see wages drop continually yet one more time, just like they are doing right now.
Steve
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 10-19-2014).]
Those that say in todays world that unions are no longer needed because we have laws that protect them, well that is good, IF the person actually knows about the laws and what they mean. For example has anyone's boss ever told you not to talk to others in the company about what they get paid?
Did you know that is illegal to do by a federal law?
If you didn't how would you know if you were being paid fairly in the place you are working, Unions know about all those laws and how to use them to your advantage when it comes contract time. But if you don't you just fall for the "Keep the salary secret BS" that many companies today give many workers to keep their pay as low as possible.
here is an interesting article about just how the National Labor Relations Board is a toothless federal organization that only acts when some files a complaint and how are you to know if a law is being broken if you don't even know the law exists? That if when a union come in handy, they have people who know all these laws and rules and regulations that most people never know about. They makes sure the laws and rules and regulations are followed, even when you don't know that they exist. And how are you going to know when the companies keep them secret from the workers by not ever posting them in your workplace, a common thing done by many companies today to keep the workers dumb to anything that might give them a little knowledge and help them to get paid fairly.
Unions are not the bad guys everyone makes them out to be and neither are all companies but sometimes you need someone else in your in your corner when it comes to the laws that no one knows, like when I told Cliff that the unions in a open shop have to still represent non union employees in grievances. If you don't know the laws how can you know what your rights are?
Unions still have a place in this country and without them the companies Have, and will continue to take advantage of the workers more every time they can. So having a union around is not always a bad thing.
Originally posted by 84fiero123: How about the corruption of the corporations and their top CEO's?
Which is the exception, not the rule.
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Originally posted by 84fiero123: Think the laws will protect the workers, sure after the fact, after they are dead.
Laws have 'teeth', a union agreement has 'suggestions'. With a company who is fed up, its trivial to 'break' a union contract and walk if you really want to, but a bit harder to run from the feds when you have the labor board coming down on you.
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Originally posted by 84fiero123: Unions still have a place in this country and without them the companies Have, and will continue to take advantage of the workers more every time they can. So having a union around is not always a bad thing.
Strangely enough where ever i have worked that had a union, there was more hostility and a 'screw them' attitude that harmed the hourly workers, than places i have worked at which didnt have a union. I know of 2 places that promptly went under after they voted in the union. They didnt help their members in those cases.
[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 10-19-2014).]
Originally posted by cliffw: Quitting is the easy way out, ? Sure, if you don't mind having to try and get a job with "quit without notice" on your resume.
Prospective employer : Why did you quit without notice ? Me : I couldn't get along with management.
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