Originally posted by fieroguru: If you are fairly new employee (low seniority) with a strong work ethic (good skills, hard working) and a desire to advance quickly... the last thing you want is a union.
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Originally posted by Hudini: It should be yes. It does not always work out that way. When I was an 18 year old high school graduate I worked for Matlock Trailer in Nashville, TN. I built axles for the big furniture mover trailers like you see with United Van Lines. I fit everything you describe, low seniority, good skills, hard working, and wish to advance. I built my axles quick enough that I had a stack the rest of the department could not keep up with. My reward? I got moved around to other departments to supplement their needs if someone laid off that day. And which jobs did I get? The dirtiest, crappiest, most unwanted jobs that were the reason that job was unfilled that day (stuff like spraying undercoating that gets all over you too). Great. Being a union job, I informed my supervisor that I wished to exercise my seniority rights and have someone of lower seniority do this crappy job and I would take their place somewhere else.
My point is simply that all it takes to destroy a good job is a bad manager, no matter how good you are personally. You can take the easy way out and quit, sure. Some of us are not quitters though.
Had you been in a non-union facility you at least would have had "a chance" at being promoted quickly out of that position. With a Union environment, that probably wasn't an option until you built up enough seniority to switch jobs/promotion, the best you could do was pull the seniority card and avoid some of the tasks they were assigning you to do. One could also argue that the response (sending you to do other nasty work) was a punishment for outworking others, which could have come from the plant management, but also could have came from the union.
I completely agree about management being the key. I am a Mfg Manager (6 departments, 400+ employees 100+ temps). I have been involved with promoting several employees with good skills/work ethic/attitude who started at $10/hr and skipped multiple grade levels and be promoted into one of the top 3 hours pay grades ($18 - $22) within 6 months - 1 year. That "almost never" happens in a Union environment, and that was my point.
So does this mean I am one of the good Managers? Depends entirely on which of my employees you ask... some understand the business case for why I do things, others just choose to focus on the negative... so its all a matter of perspective.
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Originally posted by Fats: Unions help new guys too.
I never said they didn't.
My response was pretty specific on the types of individuals who likely would do better outside of the union environment (never said the Unions didn't have benefit for some), and from my post above you see the reason for having this opinion.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 10-19-2014).]
Prospective employer : Why did you quit without notice ? Me : I couldn't get along with management.
No I always told them the truth, better paying job, and I had a job lined up before I ever left. thing is in construction that's the way it works. Better pay and more Per diem, gets me there, I have never had a construction company give me any crap about that, they know its the way it is, they called me, they wanted me there right then, they couldn't wait 2 weeks for me to get there.
No I always told them the truth, better paying job, and I had a job lined up before I ever left. thing is in construction that's the way it works. Better pay and more Per diem, gets me there, I have never had a construction company give me any crap about that, they know its the way it is, they called me, they wanted me there right then, they couldn't wait 2 weeks for me to get there.
Steve
I know i'm in a different world than construction, but i have never left without giving notice. ( Where i am at now, if you dont give them 2 weeks, you forfeit your pension and can never come back..... )
Originally posted by User00013170: I know i'm in a different world than construction, but i have never left without giving notice. ( Where i am at now, if you dont give them 2 weeks, you forfeit your pension and can never come back..... )
What pension, are you serious a pension in the construction field or for that matter anywhere now days. no one is willing to give you a pension because they know first chance you get you are gone for better money. That's what the kids here tell me anyway, a pension is a thing of the past for most companies, they might match you with what you put in a 401 K or whatever but they are not giving you a company funded pension.
What pension, are you serious a pension in the construction field or for that matter anywhere now days. no one is willing to give you a pension because they know first chance you get you are gone for better money. That's what the kids here tell me anyway, a pension is a thing of the past for most companies, they might match you with what you put in a 401 K or whatever but they are not giving you a company funded pension.
Steve
I'm not in the construction industry, and yes we get one, after 10 years of tenure. ( i am past that point ~ 15 now ) . Its not huge, but it is there. I also believe we get medical again. ( They too it away for a while, so those that retired then got hosed. But i think its back now.. who knows if it will be part of the plan when i file my papers down the road )
Originally posted by User00013170: I'm not in the construction industry, and yes we get one, after 10 years of tenure. ( i am past that point ~ 15 now ) . Its not huge, but it is there. I also believe we get medical again. ( They too it away for a while, so those that retired then got hosed. But i think its back now.. who knows if it will be part of the plan when i file my papers down the road )
Not the way it is with most companies today, at least that's what the kids here say. Now my GM retirement I still have, as small as it is. For those of you who think all GM or autoworkers retirement is in the thousands of dollars a month I will clue you in, I did 15 years. I get $156 a month and Melanie is going to get $156 a month for the rest of her life when I die. If I had taken my full retirement at 15 years I would have gotten 400 a month for my lifetime and Melanie nothing after I died, still think autoworkers get such a huge retirement, don't believe everything in the funny papers.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Not the way it is with most companies today, at least that's what the kids here say. Now my GM retirement I still have, as small as it is. For those of you who think all GM or autoworkers retirement is in the thousands of dollars a month I will clue you in, I did 15 years. I get $156 a month and Melanie is going to get $156 a month for the rest of her life when I die. If I had taken my full retirement at 15 years I would have gotten 400 a month for my lifetime and Melanie nothing after I died, still think autoworkers get such a huge retirement, don't believe everything in the funny papers.
Steve
Mine is around 3200 a month. not much but will help out with bills ( house should be paid off by then )
Make that 200, not 3200..
[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 10-19-2014).]
But, But auto workers get thousands of dollars a month in retirement, how can you get that much after just 15 years and mine is so little, retirement?
Steve
I have not been in automotive for 15 years, and i didn't stay with GM long enough when i was a kid to qualify ( and the other 3rd party supplier i was at for many years, they didnt offer anything other than 401K matching )
I worked for a non union company for 35 years and contributed to a 401 plan and invested in an IRA as soon as it became available. I took a cash balance rather than the pension offered and discovered that investing that, I'd make more monthly than the pension.
Far too many people expect the "company/union" to take care of them, rather than planning for their own retirement years. The first generation of "the let someone else take care of me". Steve you'd fit right in with the Obama dependents. If you don't have enough $$, just join the EBT people.
I worked for a non union company for 35 years and contributed to a 401 plan and invested in an IRA as soon as it became available. I took a cash balance rather than the pension offered and discovered that investing that, I'd make more monthly than the pension.
Far too many people expect the "company/union" to take care of them, rather than planning for their own retirement years. The first generation of "the let someone else take care of me". Steve you'd fit right in with the Obama dependents. If you don't have enough $$, just join the EBT people.
I dont 'expect' them to, but if they offer the plan, they damned well better honor it.
I worked for a non union company for 35 years and contributed to a 401 plan and invested in an IRA as soon as it became available. I took a cash balance rather than the pension offered and discovered that investing that, I'd make more monthly than the pension.
Far too many people expect the "company/union" to take care of them, rather than planning for their own retirement years. The first generation of "the let someone else take care of me". Steve you'd fit right in with the Obama dependents. If you don't have enough $$, just join the EBT people.
Like said above it was offered and I took it, why wouldn't I it was part of the contract we had with GM back then, now over 20 years ago since I left GM. But at least it is there and I am taking advantage of it. seeing I spent my 401 K on my medical bills when I had my stroke. And hey if a company offers it they dam well better hold their end of it or you should have gotten paid more, don't you think? Because people think of those kinds of benefits as part of how much they are getting paid when they are working for a company.
See I'm also not to worried about the benefits because just about everything the union has to offer FedEx already has... after (I think) 1000-1500 hours of service you start accumulating your pension. Its not a superb pension but seeing as how most non union company's don't even offer one anymore its a nice little perk along with a 401K in your older years.
See I'm also not to worried about the benefits because just about everything the union has to offer FedEx already has... after (I think) 1000-1500 hours of service you start accumulating your pension. Its not a superb pension but seeing as how most non union company's don't even offer one anymore its a nice little perk along with a 401K in your older years.
Hey if they offer it take them up on it, but remember without the union at GM my pension would not be here for me now. Not trying to sway your vote and you do get a vote and I think you should vote, the way you feel you should, not my way, not anyone else's way here, the way you feel you should. look at it from your point of view, do you think having a union that knows the laws and regulations better than you do is a good thing to have in your corner. If not vote no, if so vote yes. And remember there are many other people that will be voting to right along with you, or maybe against you. Who knows but do vote the way you see fit.
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