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Unions Lose and the Public Wins Big in Wisconsin by avengador1
Started on: 08-04-2014 09:39 PM
Replies: 132 (1487 views)
Last post by: MadMark on 08-10-2014 06:35 PM
jaskispyder
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Report this Post08-08-2014 07:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MadMark:


As a GM UAW retiree, I can definitely say that: All electricians get paid the same. I was one and that is the way it works. It doesn't matter how good you are nor how skilled you are nor how hard you work. The harder you work the more the bosses pile work on you, because most of the workers don't work since they were not pushed to work. I retired and went to a small company which was not unionized. I truly enjoyed that much better than working for GM. If my work was not up to par, my pay didn't increase or I might get let go. If I did a great job my pay would increase and I was rewarded for my hard work. In GM the union may have started to help the workers, but while I was there it was mostly there to keep the worst workers in the plant no matter what they did or didn't do.


How long ago did you retire?

As for the pay, use, those with the same job classification will have the same pay.

BTW, I know many GM retirees. GM/unions in the 70s/early 80s were a joke. I am sure there still pockets with problems, but you are looking at one industry.... one with known issues. I noticed you said that you retired... which means you put in enough time to retire. During that time, you also received good benefits, good pay and job security. You were rewarded with many things and just because you couldn't get a pay raise for working harder, you also didn't have to worry if you were going to be out of a job the next day. Of course there are people who don't work as hard, etc, but it isn't entirely true that the lazy keep their jobs. I know of many union workers who were fired for not doing their job. They were not in the UAW, but I believe they were steel workers. So, things are changing. For me, I have no interest in being in a union, but I know many good people (like yourself) who have worked hard and done very well for themselves and the company, while being a member of a union.
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MadMark
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Report this Post08-08-2014 08:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MadMarkClick Here to Email MadMarkSend a Private Message to MadMarkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I retired from GM in 99. Things have changed at the plant I was at. It is now owned by the Chinese.
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jaskispyder
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Report this Post08-08-2014 08:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MadMark:

I retired from GM in 99. Things have changed at the plant I was at. It is now owned by the Chinese.


Oh, Nexteer?


Nexteer's original predecessor was founded in 1906 under the name Jackson, Wilcox and Church. Their product was named the Jacox gear. In 1909, the unit was purchased by General Motors and renamed Saginaw Product Company in 1919 and Saginaw Steering Gear Division in 1928. Saginaw Steering for 90 years was a part of GM.[4] GM in 1999 spun off its parts division as Delphi Automotive Systems, Inc. including Saginaw Steering. Saginaw Steering was renamed Delphi Steering. With Delphi entering a lengthy bankruptcy proceeding, GM purchased Delphi Steering through their subsidiary, GM Global Steering Holdings LLC, in 2009 and renamed the company, Nexteer Automotive. GM moved to have the union change their contract with Nexteer in order to prepare the company for a sale as Nexteer had multiple customers besides GM. After the first offered agreement, GM warned the employees that this may hamper finding a buyer; the results being that GM may just shut Nexteer down. A second agreement was ratified by the union.[5] The Michigan Economic Growth Authority gave a $70.7 million state tax credit over ten years to Nexteer in November 2009. Nexteer announced that same month investment plans totaling $400 million across the board and keeping its headquarters in Buena Vista Township. The Township responded with a 100 percent 20 year tax abatement.[6] Nexteer was acquired by Pacific Century Motors on November 29, 2010.[1] Nexteer listed on the HKSE in November of 2013.

http://www.mlive.com/busine...wnships_nexteer.html

[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 08-08-2014).]

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84fiero123
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Report this Post08-08-2014 09:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MadMark:

I retired from GM in 99. Things have changed at the plant I was at. It is now owned by the Chinese.


Thing I find funny is that is the skilled trades section of the workforce at the factory then. See the line workers are not able to do that, just the skilled trades who are support for the line, or am I also wrong about that. The line grunts are the ones who work all the time, sure some are lazy and take to much time off but they can't just sit back and pick and choose what they did. I worked the line at a GM assemble plant, you know the ones that actually put the cars together. and you would never be able to get away with what happened in your job as a line worker.

PS I started out as a line grunt, worked my way to absentee, then absentee repair and was rarely ever given any opportunity to screw off as you call it. I worked the line, that never stopped and neither did we. So I guess it was just the skilled trades that worked the way you described. the majority of us were proud of the products we built and proud of the way things were made and tried to do the best job we could everyday and even tried to correct the mistakes made by the engineers who worked in their own little paper world, well paper when I started in 73, then computers before I left.

It's not easy to fix a mistake made by the engineers who KNOW it worked because it worked on paper, even had one actually say that to me once. I almost punched him in the mouth when he said that to me, but decided against it and just said,

"Does this look like a paper world out here on the line?"

Actually my exact words were,

"Does this look like an origami world out here on the line where we have to put the crap you design together?"

Steve

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 08-08-2014).]

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-08-2014 10:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:


Thing I find funny is that is the skilled trades section of the workforce at the factory then. See the line workers are not able to do that, just the skilled trades who are support for the line, or am I also wrong about that. The line grunts are the ones who work all the time, sure some are lazy and take to much time off but they can't just sit back and pick and choose what they did. I worked the line at a GM assemble plant, you know the ones that actually put the cars together. and you would never be able to get away with what happened in your job as a line worker.

PS I started out as a line grunt, worked my way to absentee, then absentee repair and was rarely ever given any opportunity to screw off as you call it. I worked the line, that never stopped and neither did we. So I guess it was just the skilled trades that worked the way you described. the majority of us were proud of the products we built and proud of the way things were made and tried to do the best job we could everyday and even tried to correct the mistakes made by the engineers who worked in their own little paper world, well paper when I started in 73, then computers before I left.

It's not easy to fix a mistake made by the engineers who KNOW it worked because it worked on paper, even had one actually say that to me once. I almost punched him in the mouth when he said that to me, but decided against it and just said,

"Does this look like a paper world out here on the line?"

Actually my exact words were,

"Does this look like an origami world out here on the line where we have to put the crap you design together?"

Steve



My wife worked at a local truck plant as "summer help" one year while she was home from College on summer break. She worked on the line. She was subjected to sexual harassment almost every night committed by regular "line grunt" co-workers and it finally reached a boiling point one time when a regular line grunt sprayed her white t-shirt with a super soaker he brought in to work. Long story short, it was only at that point the union rep would finally take action about the harassment. And trust me, that kind of person doing the harassing isn't uncommon on the line from what I've been told by past and present employees of the same company and location.

The company can't fire these people at all. That decision is left up to the union (or so I'm told that's how it works). And the union won't "let anyone go" unless they do something REALLY BAD. From what I'm told by a current employee, there's all kinds of criminal activity (drug sales, bootlegging, etc) going on during 2nd and 3rd shift and the union turns a blind eye to it for whatever reason. I have been told this by more than one person that works there.

Remember a couple of years ago when the news story broke about union auto workers in Michigan who where taking their lunch breaks at a local bar and getting drunk - then going back to work drunk??? You can't tell me this is an isolated incident.

Sorry, but the way I see it, most unions exist today to make sure the lowest form of scum keeps their jobs and to also funnel union dues into the democrat party. That's pretty much it.

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 08-08-2014).]

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Wichita
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Report this Post08-08-2014 11:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WichitaClick Here to Email WichitaSend a Private Message to WichitaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Unions are communist by nature. I consider the institution extremely un-American by values or purpose.

Now these pusses infiltrate government desk clerks and school teachers to rape people for their money. Sad indeed.

Thank God it is all about dead, with the exception of a few pockets in dying industries and government.

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Report this Post08-08-2014 11:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTClick Here to Email IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Wichita:

Unions are communist by nature. I consider the institution extremely un-American by values or purpose.

Now these pusses infiltrate government desk clerks and school teachers to rape people for their money. Sad indeed.

Thank God it is all about dead, with the exception of a few pockets in dying industries and government.



 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:

Sorry, but the way I see it, most unions exist today to make sure the lowest form of scum keeps their jobs....



Most people go to a union job because they are exactly that....lazy bums who want protection in order to be lazy. They can't fight for themselves and love the idea of a "gang" doing the work for them. Thats all a union is.....one big gang of pussies who if they don't get their way, they strike, cause disruption in business, and generally throw a big tantrum and act like children until they get their way.

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 08-08-2014).]

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olejoedad
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Report this Post08-09-2014 09:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by olejoedad:


Each union/management relationship must be taken on an individual basis.
I don't like conflictual labor/management situations. They waste time, energy and resources.


Most ( 85% ) of my interaction with unions in a manufacturing environment echoes the situations of the above posters.
Trade unions (construction trades) do a much better job in training and 'policing' their membership.
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pontiackid86
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Report this Post08-09-2014 07:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiackid86Click Here to Email pontiackid86Send a Private Message to pontiackid86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by ray b:


unions are the enemy of the CORPrats
busting unions is a rightwing dogma
people get less pay in non-union states
and are paid far more with far more benefits on union jobs
many making middle class wages as a direct result of unions
less union jobs = less middle class union workers

who gains from no unions
the 1% who think their FAIRSHARE IS EVERYTHING
and hate being forced by unions into paying a living wage




(late I know) but this all depends on the company, I'm sure we all have worked somewhere that a union would most likely help us all out but there are still some company's out there that pay their employees fairly.
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spark1
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Report this Post08-10-2014 02:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for spark1Send a Private Message to spark1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by pontiackid86:
(late I know) but this all depends on the company, I'm sure we all have worked somewhere that a union would most likely help us all out but there are still some company's out there that pay their employees fairly.


I wonder if they would without the threat of and employee union being formed if benefits became unequal?
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MadMark
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Report this Post08-10-2014 05:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MadMarkClick Here to Email MadMarkSend a Private Message to MadMarkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
After I left GM. I went to work for a small company that was privately owned. It was the best choice I ever made in my life. My boss would pay decently and did everything he could to be right with his workers. He kept his business in a little town of St. Charles, MI because he wanted to keep people there employed. He could have moved it and made more money, but that was not what he wanted to do.

I ended up the Maintenance Supervisor, Engineer and designed and built the machinery for 12 years under his leadership. We advanced the company from under a million in sales to over $12 million in sales with over 50% net profit. My pay went up, but was never as much as I could have gotten from GM, but I never regretted it. I had satisfaction from actually making things work.

I now have my own business and design and build small machinery, program PLC's, trouble shoot and do some limited other things for small businesses. One of the businesses that I do work for is committed to being honest with their workers. No union, but they have good health care and make decent money. This business is a metal fabrication and weld shop. They do big pieces of machinery for coal mine, rock crushers and other type of big equipment. And example of the type of machinery in the shop would be the roller that can do up to 2 inch thick armour plate steel 10 feet wide. That is some big metal.

It is a hot, physical, dirty place to work, but they make a good living and most of the employees are very happy to work there.
There are a whole lot of small to medium sized companies out there who are good to their workers and don't have a union on their back.
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Report this Post08-10-2014 05:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for avengador1Click Here to Email avengador1Send a Private Message to avengador1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Most are missing the point here. Why does a government worker need a union to protect him from the government? Something about this does not sound right.
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MadMark
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Report this Post08-10-2014 06:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MadMarkClick Here to Email MadMarkSend a Private Message to MadMarkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by avengador1:

Most are missing the point here. Why does a government worker need a union to protect him from the government? Something about this does not sound right.


They don't. But, it is a way to line the pockets of the union leadership at the same time as the people in control of government get big paybacks in the form of union endorsements and money in the political races to retain office. So it is a win, win for the unions, their union workers and for the politicians. However, the ever escalating cost of employing government is a loss for all of us who pay taxes.
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