Wow. Disappear from the forum only to come back to post this? I thought you had more class than that. What a shame...
(No, no neg from me. I don't neg anymore. But like Brennan, my respect for you is gone.)
edit: And you might say "Hey Ara, I thought you said you weren't posting in political threads anymore". Well, 1) this thread wasn't marked political. 2) The title gave no indication that it was anything other than perhaps a "Hi, PFF, long time no see!" post...
[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 07-23-2014).]
Doni:did you get the reaction you had hoped for? Stirring the political pot of discontent? I had unchecked "politics" with the hope of avoiding stuff like this. Oh well.
I am always in awe of those here who pronounce that they have now "retracted" their "respect" for someone here. What makes them think that the other person needs, wants, or even values their respect? Or that it even existed at all?
And on what grounds did that "respect" exist? Based on their opinions here? On what they said here? Or the way they describe carrying themselves in real life....here?
The one common denominator seems to be that it does appear absolutely necessary to publicly tell everyone that you have lost respect for the person, instead of just just PM-ing them your grave concern for the new absence in their life of your respect.
Which begs the question: Is it about you, or them?...
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 07-23-2014).]
Originally posted by Boondawg: ... Which begs the question: is it about you, or them?...
Thanks for asking. In my case, it's about me.
I wasn't going to say anything, but since you asked...
Doni quit communicating with me, out of the blue, quite a while back. (This after a really pleasant exchange of PMs, several months before that.) I've PM'd him at least twice, asking him what I said or did that put him off. (I seriously don't know. I never intentionally try to slam somebody unless they are just blatantly obnoxious. That certainly never applied to Doni. Maybe I'm perceived differently by others? I dunno. Regardless... I hate being misunderstood, and not even getting a chance to explain where I was coming from - if, indeed, I was coming from anywhere.)
Anyway... He never bothered to take the time to respond. Period. Makes me wonder if he just wants to be pissed. But, whatever. Not like I ever had anything to offer anyway, other than a handshake and maybe a beer or something. Maybe a little bit of Fiero experience.
So, yeah... I can accept if someone is pissed at me. Certainly wouldn't be the first time. But at least have the courtesy to explain why.
Later.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-23-2014).]
Originally posted by Raydar: I hate being misunderstood, and not even getting a chance to explain where I was coming from - if, indeed, I was coming from anywhere.)
As do I.
As for someone not responding to repeated inquiries; Lack of information don't necessarily mean bad news.
I know how easy it is to think someone is giving us the cold-shoulder, but maybe they're just going through their own sh!t. Or maybe he was just giving you the cold shoulder. Does one ever know?
I am always in awe of those here who pronounce that they have now "retracted" their "respect" for someone here. What makes them think that the other person needs, wants, or even values their respect? Or that it even existed at all?
And on what grounds did that "respect" exist? Based on their opinions here? On what they said here? Or the way they describe carrying themselves in real life....here?
The one common denominator seems to be that it does appear absolutely necessary to publicly tell everyone that you have lost respect for the person, instead of just just PM-ing them your grave concern for the new absence in their life of your respect.
Which begs the question: Is it about you, or them?...
So let's break this down. I stated my opinion. And then you stated your opinion about my opinion.
Which begs the question. Why do you feel your opinion (about my opinion) is more deserving to be heard than my own?
[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 07-24-2014).]
I am always in awe of those here who pronounce that they have now "retracted" their "respect" for someone here. What makes them think that the other person needs, wants, or even values their respect? Or that it even existed at all?
And on what grounds did that "respect" exist? Based on their opinions here? On what they said here? Or the way they describe carrying themselves in real life....here?
The one common denominator seems to be that it does appear absolutely necessary to publicly tell everyone that you have lost respect for the person, instead of just just PM-ing them your grave concern for the new absence in their life of your respect.
Which begs the question: Is it about you, or them?...
quote
Originally posted by theBDub:
...but the respect I had for you has died. Take that for whatever you find its worth to be.
I stated what I said because I do believe that Doni values my opinion. If he doesn't, more power to him, but I do believe that he does.
I don't PM unless it's a reply. If something can be said by me that I feel worthy of saying, it will be made public.
Again, you can take that for what it is worth to you. This whole forum has become something that I just check once in awhile because I want to see how it is doing. I don't hold too much personal investment in any of you, besides the very few people I have met and the people that have remained in contact with me even without my activity on the forum (ls3mach, for instance, has continuously made a point to keep in contact with me, which I respect highly).
If someone values my post, they will accept it. If they don't, they won't. That isn't my problem. But my voice has meaning to me and I feel the need to voice that, because I truly do believe that it holds a certain weight here. If it doesn't, that's not anyone's problem, even mine, but I do believe it does.
So I will say what I say. And Doni has, more than once, posted something just to disappear again until he comes up with something clever to say. I'm done. He's an intelligent guy with a lot of success behind him, but he has increasingly become more and more difficult to talk to respectfully. That's not on me, that's him. From my perspective--which may mean very little. I don't really care. But I will voice it regardless.
I am always in awe of those here who pronounce that they have now "retracted" their "respect" for someone here. What makes them think that the other person needs, wants, or even values their respect?
I guess I dont think the acceptance or acknowledgement of respect has any effect on someone holding it.
I don't know why anyone bothers to argue with freaking blindly dedicated Obama supporters, especially those who support him purely BECAUSE of his race/color. They're absolutely incapable of acknowledging, much less admitting that he's a spectacular failure in every way. It's always going to be the same ad hominem argument that we're either racist, or envious. We can't just dislike him because he might be the worst president ever. No amount of arguing or evidence will ever convince them, because to accept the real reasons we despise him, would require that they consider those reasons as factual, and they can't do that. Their tiny little brains would implode.
I wasn't going to say anything, but since you asked...
Doni quit communicating with me, out of the blue, quite a while back. (This after a really pleasant exchange of PMs, several months before that.) I've PM'd him at least twice, asking him what I said or did that put him off. (I seriously don't know. I never intentionally try to slam somebody unless they are just blatantly obnoxious. That certainly never applied to Doni. Maybe I'm perceived differently by others? I dunno. Regardless... I hate being misunderstood, and not even getting a chance to explain where I was coming from - if, indeed, I was coming from anywhere.)
Anyway... He never bothered to take the time to respond. Period. Makes me wonder if he just wants to be pissed. But, whatever. Not like I ever had anything to offer anyway, other than a handshake and maybe a beer or something. Maybe a little bit of Fiero experience.
So, yeah... I can accept if someone is pissed at me. Certainly wouldn't be the first time. But at least have the courtesy to explain why.
Later.
Trust me... it's him, NOT you. I'm quite sure it's nothing you said. He probably just felt that he was tired of everyone bashing his religion, so he took his ball and left.
He will be regarded and honored as the President who entered office during a deep recession and two wars and turned the country around.
0 has made a mark on history, but it's full impact won't be realized while he's still in office. History will render it's judgement in the due course of time.
I regret replying in this thread. Waste of time, these thread-grenades. Just waste time typing out what we already believe, while the OP just walks away and enjoys the day. He tossed a forwarded email in here and then went "Ha-Ha! I got a bunch of people to waste their time whacking at they keyboards!" and, I suspect, feels superior somehow.
It's easy to fall into THAT trap. I sometimes find myself doing that with some folks and their beliefs. It's not a good thing.
Wish you could hide threads, I know you can just choose not to click on them, but this one would fall into that category (for me, anyway)
My advice is to let this thread fall away, and the only person who would bump it would be the OP or someone trying to stir up the pot. and if that occurs, we just let it sink right back down. Yeah, OT might get a bit quieter, but I'd prefer that to bickering.
Enjoy your weekend, folks (even you folks who actually like Obama *shudders*)
Originally posted by Boondawg: Leaving a thread-landmine behind him...
i've been wondering about that. TDA/Rumor has been developing, changing, growing, however it should be phrased. he used to be one of those guys who focused exclusively on the positive, and he seems to me to have "soured" a bit in the last couple of years. maybe it's growing up, or raising kids, or just constant unrelenting exposure to the evils that men do. it's hard to hold on to your idealism. still, it's interesting to observe. if he cares to comment on the process, i'd be interested, but if not, that's ok too.
[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 07-25-2014).]
i've been wondering about that. TDA/Rumor has been developing, changing, growing, however it should be phrased. he used to be one of those guys who focused exclusively on the positive, and he seems to me to have "soured" a bit in the last couple of years. maybe it's growing up, or raising kids, or just constant unrelenting exposure to the evils that men do. it's hard to hold on to your idealism. still, it's interesting to observe. if he cares to comment on the process, i'd be interested, but if not, that's ok too.
I think he used to be an Idealist. He is now a Realist.
i'm going to go out on a limb and risk the wrath of the holders of the majority viewpoint.
i think obama has been an average, unremarkable president. i think (no, i know it because i see the discussion on an explicitly liberal forum i frequent) a lot of liberals are disappointed because they had unrealistic expectations from the start. i never saw or understood this "messiah" thing that people talk about, and loathe the religion-tinged victimology that that derives from.
there are other groups who will never be happy with a liberal president, or an african-american president, or a president who is not a mainstream christian fundamentalist, but that's to be expected in our polarized political culture. it's interesting to hang out on a forum where i'm the evil capitalist militarist, because that's how i'm viewed there.
he's done no serious damage to the 2nd amendment, unlike the state governments in Ma or NY or NJ. there is no consensus on immigration reform. his health care initiatives as implemented were originally designed by republicans and fall far short of his intended goal. he's trying to reform our relationship with israel and other countries in the middle east, and i think that's appropriate. unreserved support for anyone there is asking for trouble, and the people of the region are ultimately responsible for working that out anyway. the policies i find most troubling (expansion of centralization of power in government and especially corporations (many of them foreign or multinational) at the expense of individuals are simple continuation of policies put in motion by a long series previous administrations, going back at least to lincoln, and while i'm disappointed that he's done nothing to rein them in, i doubt he has sufficient authority or mandate to have much effect, for better or worse, anyway. he's not been quick to rattle sabers, possibly a little too slow, but coming out of a 13-year undeclared war which was never universally supported, that's appropriate. we don't face a credible military threat in the immediate future. we have an economic problem, the economic and financial leaders who actually determine policy want things to go the way they're going, and there's not much anyone can do about it.
the main points i take away from the obama administration in its waning years is that he's a moral man who cares about people, and wants to do good for the country, no matter how misguided or impotent we may think he is. and we're on the brink of getting beyond the race thing. we as individuals may think race doesn't matter, but as a society it does. well, we've had our (first) black president, we've seen and demonstrated that it can be done, and now we can move on. maybe one day we can have an avowed atheist president. Jefferson was a deist, which doesn't count, and every president has at least given christianity lip service.
bring it.
[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 07-25-2014).]
Seriously? Kind of like pouring lighter fluid on an ant hill, lighting a match and stepping back knowing the ants can't touch you. Yep, there's some bravery there.
------------------ Ron Count Down to A Better America: http://countingdownto.com/countdown/196044 Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: ... Trust me... it's him, NOT you. I'm quite sure it's nothing you said. He probably just felt that he was tired of everyone bashing his religion, so he took his ball and left.
Someone else messaged me and said that he had gotten a different version of the same treatment.
To your comment... Yeah. I know. And thanks for your opinion. But it was perplexing, nonetheless. And I tried for the longest time to figure out what I might have said or done. It's why I asked, several times. Anyway, I'm done. Now that I realize that I'm not losing my mind, I don't care. I have a feeling that he doesn't either. He certainly doesn't need any of us. Whatever.
Still wish him well. I hope he gets past whatever is bugging him.
the main points i take away from the obama administration in its waning years is that he's a moral man who cares about people,
His concern is always on display. That's why he is on vacation when black teenage unemployment is over 40%.
Henry Gates situation: every police officer involved said the actions taken were in accord with policies designed to protect Henry Gates. What did Barack Obama say? " The police acted stupidly. " Barack Obama has poked the racial hornet's nest every single time he has had an opportunity to be a calming influence.
[This message has been edited by heybjorn (edited 07-26-2014).]
You have achieved the intellectual and political equivalent of leaving the "classic" flaming paper bag full of dog poop on the door step, ringing the doorbell and running away.
You have achieved the intellectual and political equivalent of leaving the "classic" flaming paper bag full of dog poop on the door step, ringing the doorbell and running away.
i'm going to go out on a limb and risk the wrath of the holders of the majority viewpoint.
i think obama has been an average, unremarkable president. i think (no, i know it because i see the discussion on an explicitly liberal forum i frequent) a lot of liberals are disappointed because they had unrealistic expectations from the start. i never saw or understood this "messiah" thing that people talk about, and loathe the religion-tinged victimology that that derives from.
there are other groups who will never be happy with a liberal president, or an african-american president, or a president who is not a mainstream christian fundamentalist, but that's to be expected in our polarized political culture. it's interesting to hang out on a forum where i'm the evil capitalist militarist, because that's how i'm viewed there.
he's done no serious damage to the 2nd amendment, unlike the state governments in Ma or NY or NJ. there is no consensus on immigration reform. his health care initiatives as implemented were originally designed by republicans and fall far short of his intended goal. he's trying to reform our relationship with israel and other countries in the middle east, and i think that's appropriate. unreserved support for anyone there is asking for trouble, and the people of the region are ultimately responsible for working that out anyway. the policies i find most troubling (expansion of centralization of power in government and especially corporations (many of them foreign or multinational) at the expense of individuals are simple continuation of policies put in motion by a long series previous administrations, going back at least to lincoln, and while i'm disappointed that he's done nothing to rein them in, i doubt he has sufficient authority or mandate to have much effect, for better or worse, anyway. he's not been quick to rattle sabers, possibly a little too slow, but coming out of a 13-year undeclared war which was never universally supported, that's appropriate. we don't face a credible military threat in the immediate future. we have an economic problem, the economic and financial leaders who actually determine policy want things to go the way they're going, and there's not much anyone can do about it.
the main points i take away from the obama administration in its waning years is that he's a moral man who cares about people, and wants to do good for the country, no matter how misguided or impotent we may think he is. and we're on the brink of getting beyond the race thing. we as individuals may think race doesn't matter, but as a society it does. well, we've had our (first) black president, we've seen and demonstrated that it can be done, and now we can move on. maybe one day we can have an avowed atheist president. Jefferson was a deist, which doesn't count, and every president has at least given christianity lip service.
bring it.
Can't really disagree with much you have said,but...... Damage to the 2nd Amendment has been prevented by a lot of hard work by his opponents. The reduction in force of our military is disturbing by the way it has been handled. The growing lack of respect in the world could have been prevented, and the damage will take years to repair. I think he has done the most damage to the inner working of our government by tipping the balance of power between the three 'co-equal' branches set up by the Constitution. And the ongoing running up of the national debt (falls on many shoulders) will destroy this country if not checked, and soon.
Well if you feel that I should not bother telling Doni my opinion, and you also feel that your own opinion is worth no more than my opinion (which you essentially called worthless), then why pother posting at all?
You ask me why I would bother telling Doni that he's lost my respect, I'll tell you - This forum is not a vacuum. I post because I care about the people here and their opinions, and I would hope that they care, at least a little, about me and my opinions. If I truly believed that my own opinion - or yours for that matter, were worthless than I wouldn't bother posting anything, at all. In fact I wouldn't even be a member of this forum, or any forum...
Well if you feel that I should not bother telling Doni my opinion, and you also feel that your own opinion is worth no more than my opinion (which you essentially called worthless), then why pother posting at all?
I'm not going to do this with you. I only commented on my amazement at the process.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 07-27-2014).]
Do what? My question was rhetorical. My point was that I feel my opinion has value, and that YOUR opinion has value. If I felt otherwise I wouldn't even be here.
