Not to be a dick, but TL;DR... everything you've discussed here has already been hashed out in the four pages above... please re-read and then discuss things that haven't been covered. Not wasting my time on someone who will never change their mind anyway.
A computer crash wouldn't usually wipe out email — except that the IRS had a policy that only 500 megabytes of data could be stored on the email server at any one time — and that, if this limit was hit, older emails would have to be moved to the employee's computer.
Didn't the IRS back up its email?
It did — but only for six months. After that, the backup tapes were taped over "for cost-efficiency," the agency wrote.
If true, both of these scenarios violate federal data retention laws.
Originally posted by Formula88: If true, both of these scenarios violate federal data retention laws.
Yes. But that's hardly what is causing this story to "sizzle with inviting and bacon-like aroma" in the eyes of FOX News and other media outlets. It's the implication of an orchestrated coverup. Which I am hardly persuaded of, although I have just been "dinged" by Mr. 82-T/A as being either grossly uninformed, massively naive, or invariably partisan and aligned in an opposite direction to the prevailing trend of the Daryl Issa-chaired IRS oversight committee hearings.
When someone throws out a number such as "322 visits to the White House by Lois Lerner" (82-T/A) and I see that this is somewhat misleading, I know that certain parties are in a rush to judgement and have perceptions that are not objective, but are in reality, biased perceptions. A priori. Prejudging the case before it has been fully examined.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 06-26-2014).]
Yes. But that's hardly what is causing this story to "sizzle with inviting and bacon-like aroma" in the eyes of FOX News and other media outlets. It's the implication of an orchestrated coverup. Which I am hardly persuaded of, although I have just been "dinged" by Mr. 82-T/A as being either grossly uninformed, massively naive, or invariably partisan and aligned in an opposite direction to the prevailing trend of the Daryl Issa-chaired IRS oversight committee hearings.
When someone throws out a number such as "322 visits to the White House by Lois Lerner" (82-T/A) and I see that this is somewhat misleading, I know that certain parties are in a rush to judgement and have perceptions that are not objective, but are in reality, biased perceptions. A priori. Prejudging the case before it has been fully examined.
You wouldn't bee persuaded no matter what evidence is shown. It's an obvious coverup. Nobody with any clue how IT works bought this from day one, and the addendum lies to try to make the original lie believable get more and more ridiculous.
Yes. But that's hardly what is causing this story to "sizzle with inviting and bacon-like aroma" in the eyes of FOX News and other media outlets. It's the implication of an orchestrated coverup. Which I am hardly persuaded of, although I have just been "dinged" by Mr. 82-T/A as being either grossly uninformed, massively naive, or invariably partisan and aligned in an opposite direction to the prevailing trend of the Daryl Issa-chaired IRS oversight committee hearings.
When someone throws out a number such as "322 visits to the White House by Lois Lerner" (82-T/A) and I see that this is somewhat misleading, I know that certain parties are in a rush to judgement and have perceptions that are not objective, but are in reality, biased perceptions. A priori. Prejudging the case before it has been fully examined.
TWO agencies had hard drive crashes, conveniently within a month of being investigated. 6 or 7 people (8 maybe?) hard drives crashed at the same time at the IRS.
They use exchange, they don't store the e-mails locally... it's just not set up that way, no one does it that way, certainly not an organization that has to back up their e-mail... the e-mails are stored on the exchange server.
There is just no logical way this could happen... even Pyrthian thinks it's bull **** ... 80% of the country thinks it's bull **** ...
I feel the ONLY way you would believe it is if Obama came out and actually said... "We are guilty..." and even then, you'd probably try to justify it.
What is so hard to believe about various Federal agencies (IRS, EPA and other agencies, no doubt) not having fully functional and reliable IT systems with robust archiving capabilities that would be fully compliant with Federal law, even as recently as 2011 and 2012..?
Some will say that it is not the agencies at fault, because they did not receive the appropriate level of funding for their IT requirements in the Federal budget.
Others will say that they did not receive the appropriate level of funding for IT modernization and maintenance because the Obama administration squandered too large a percentage of federal tax revenues for other, less essential uses.
What is so hard to believe about various Federal agencies (IRS, EPA and other agencies, no doubt) not having fully functional and reliable IT systems with robust archiving capabilities that would be fully compliant with Federal law, even as recently as 2011 and 2012..?
Some will say that it is not the agencies at fault, because they did not receive the appropriate level of funding for their IT requirements in the Federal budget.
Others will say that they did not receive the appropriate level of funding for IT modernization and maintenance because the Obama administration squandered too large a percentage of federal tax revenues for other, less essential uses.
Either way, not an orchestrated coverup.
Dude, these agencies do NOT save their e-mails locally on their computer... they just don't... NO ONE does that... especially not an organization that backs up the Exchange server with the specific purpose of backing up e-mails.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Dude, these agencies do NOT save their e-mails locally on their computer... they just don't... NO ONE does that... especially not an organization that backs up the Exchange server with the specific purpose of backing up e-mails.
To be fair, you can do that to save space on the SAN ( and we do just to save cost ) BUT... it is all backed up elsewhere. Even if you do blow up your local PST, you can still get your stuff back, as its sent to the archive vault at some point too. ( and of course the originals, but not as neatly organized and a a bit more of a pain to get it back, but its not *gone* )
What is so hard to believe about various Federal agencies (IRS, EPA and other agencies, no doubt) not having fully functional and reliable IT systems with robust archiving capabilities that would be fully compliant with Federal law, even as recently as 2011 and 2012..?
Everything.
As the congressmen told the IRS Commissioner "We don't believe you--nobody believes you".
Just saw a report that Lois Lerner also had a Blackberry phone. Now if I am not mistaken one of the reasons for using a Blackberry phone is that it is secure and backs up all the data on Blackberry's site. So maybe just maybe the crooks forgot to scrub something and it is all recoverable.
They'll keep stalling until the next bright and shiny object comes along. In another few years, we'll be dealing with a Republican administration with the Democrats screaming that the President is using the IRS for oppressing their opponents.
when you come out of no where, and start moving about large sums of $$$, you WILL be investigated
yes, profiling is wrong. sorry Tea-Tards have been profiled.
I dont doubt one bit there is/was an agenda. just like profiling illegals, just like profiling blacks. sucks when it comes your way, eh? This is BS all around. Tea-Tards all doing the same shifty money BS, and get the IRS eye pointed their way. maybe it wasnt all of them. maybe it was. all latinos are not illegals. yet enough are to get an agenda against them. keep your idiots in line, Tea-Tards. do as you say.
yes, the IRS sucks. profiling is wrong. but I cant help but be amused.
Your attitude is appalling.
There was no "money laundering" going on at all. Zero. It was groups filing for a tax exempt status.
"...just like profiling illegals, just like profiling blacks..."
Wow. You really can't make that distinction? Illegals are, BY DEFINITION, doing something illegal. These groups weren't doing anything illegal. There is NO comparison there. At all.
"...profiling blacks. Sucks when it comes your way..." Also, no. When blacks are profiled, there is pressure by the media and the general public to get it stopped. It might not happen at the pace, and the uniformity that you desire, but it happens. Your attitude is shameful. It is attitude like that which makes America less great than it used to be.
And the foundation of it? Someone has the audacity to hold different political beliefs than you do. And you hold yourself up to be the "liberal" one? Yikes. There is hypocrisy, and then there is this post.
They'll keep stalling until the next bright and shiny object comes along. In another few years, we'll be dealing with a Republican administration with the Democrats screaming that the President is using the IRS for oppressing their opponents.
You are certainly right on this. If the Democrats can get away with it, the establishment Republicans will try to use it too. Then watch the media scream.
Originally posted by frontal lobe: Your attitude is appalling.
There was no "money laundering" going on at all. Zero. It was groups filing for a tax exempt status.
"...just like profiling illegals, just like profiling blacks..."
Wow. You really can't make that distinction? Illegals are, BY DEFINITION, doing something illegal. These groups weren't doing anything illegal. There is NO comparison there. At all.
"...profiling blacks. Sucks when it comes your way..." Also, no. When blacks are profiled, there is pressure by the media and the general public to get it stopped. It might not happen at the pace, and the uniformity that you desire, but it happens. Your attitude is shameful. It is attitude like that which makes America less great than it used to be.
And the foundation of it? Someone has the audacity to hold different political beliefs than you do. And you hold yourself up to be the "liberal" one? Yikes. There is hypocrisy, and then there is this post.
Frontal Lobe, I agree with you completely. Pyrthian is an unmitigated partisan hack. No chance of objectivity here at all.
If someone was being objective, you could change their mind with evidence and facts. I don't see a lot of that. What I see is overwhelmingly partisan and political posts, mostly from the political right.
Which is unfortunate, because I don't think its a right-vs-left issue at all. It's a normal-person vs political-elite problem. And as far as I'm concerned, both parties are corrupted trash that were bought out long ago by special interests and campaign contributors.
Both parties are corrupt in my opinion and will tell people what they want them to hear. The Democrats and the Left are just better at it than the Republicans/Right. Now THAT is something we both agree on.
If someone was being objective, you could change their mind with evidence and facts. I don't see a lot of that. It's a normal-person vs political-elite problem. And as far as I'm concerned, both parties are corrupted trash that were bought out long ago by special interests and campaign contributors.
I have been making it a normal-person vs. political-elite problem.
A normal person should be able to avail themselves of the laws that the political elite made. A large number of groups tried to avail themselves of the laws regarding tax exempt status.
The political-elite, in the form of the powerful and intimidating IRS, ADMITTED to specifically targeting certain normal people that they deemed held a certain political viewpoint.
Are you not going to hold that abuse of political-elite, government power over the normal person accountable? Why not? Because you don't agree with their political views?
I'm not saying have a witch hunt to get Obama. I'm saying hold this agency accountable, and the people responsible, accountable. Defend the rights of the normal person from that kind of political tyranny.
Why isn't Obama doing that? Why isn't he driving it? Eric Holder? And finally, why aren't YOU insisting on it? You were willing to accept, oh, yeah, some low level staffers did it. Don't check into it farther.
If that is your attitude, the political-elite just love you.
I have been making it a normal-person vs. political-elite problem.
I'm not saying have a witch hunt to get Obama. I'm saying hold this agency accountable, and the people responsible, accountable. Defend the rights of the normal person from that kind of political tyranny.
Why isn't Obama doing that? Why isn't he driving it? Eric Holder?
Absolutely!! It's disgraceful that Obama and Holder aren't taking this more seriously. The IRS's excuses are weak and pathetic. ANY abuse of power, or incompetence, by the IRS is extremely dangerous and cannot be tolerated.
If the IRS can claim ignorance and destroy evidence, why can't I? Can me or you claim tax exemptions and then when audited, claim your paperwork was destroyed? YEAH RIGHT.
They are obviously holding themselves to a different standard then everyone else.
quote
And finally, why aren't YOU insisting on it? You were willing to accept, oh, yeah, some low level staffers did it. Don't check into it farther.
If that is your attitude, the political-elite just love you.
I hope they get to the bottom of it just as much as you do. Not sure why you think I am justifying their actions.
I do think that Republicans would have had much better luck if they hadn't squandered their credibility in the past, complaining about stupid stuff.
[This message has been edited by masospaghetti (edited 06-27-2014).]
This should be just as much an issue for both parties as, if nothing is said or done about this kind of thing now, the opposing party of the one sitting in the WH will be kept under the thumb of the administration. I don't think that's the way we want our country run no matter who's on office. Right now, the Democrats are saying there's nothing to see here and that it's just another phony scandal. But they should be careful because, what they do here with this particular situation could very well come back and bite them in the butt big time in the future.
If someone was being objective, you could change their mind with evidence and facts. I don't see a lot of that. What I see is overwhelmingly partisan and political posts, mostly from the political right.
Which is unfortunate, because I don't think its a right-vs-left issue at all. It's a normal-person vs political-elite problem. And as far as I'm concerned, both parties are corrupted trash that were bought out long ago by special interests and campaign contributors.
There are MORE people who believe the IRS is lying, than people who believe Kacey Anthony and O.J. Simpson lied.
Best part is the reward money would come from IRS funding.
This is an amazing bill... but it'll never pass the Senate...
BUT... you know DAMN well there's a few people out there that have some Louis Lerner e-mails printed and stashed away in their desks somewhere... just in case.
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 06-27-2014).]
Just saw a report that Lois Lerner also had a Blackberry phone. Now if I am not mistaken one of the reasons for using a Blackberry phone is that it is secure and backs up all the data on Blackberry's site. So maybe just maybe the crooks forgot to scrub something and it is all recoverable.
I would hope they are not using 'commercial' blackberry .
We're not talking about the Earth being flat here...
We're talking about you disagreeing with more than 80% of the public, on many things that we KNOW to be fact.
Stop putting words in my mouth. I said this earlier, on this page:
quote
It's disgraceful that Obama and Holder aren't taking this more seriously. The IRS's excuses are weak and pathetic. ANY abuse of power, or incompetence, by the IRS is extremely dangerous and cannot be tolerated.
We all agree that the IRS targeting is a complete abuse of power.
[This message has been edited by masospaghetti (edited 06-29-2014).]
1. I said that the Republicans have squandered their credibility because they literally whine about everything that Obama does, no matter how trivial 2. That the constant liberals-are-evil mantra gets old because its not a right-vs-left problem
