Anyone else of the opinion that the entire IRS should be shut down until this investigation is complete? It is becoming increasingly obvious that he organization is corrupt to the core, and I have to wonder how many other partisan actions the organization has carried out since this investigation began?
I'm of the opinion that the way this is being handled is demonstrating that we are no longer under rule of law. The actual accusations are less important than the flagrant violation and contempt for the law being shown by the administration. They're covering up something(s) big or it would have been easier to toss Lerner under the bus and make the problem go away.
Anyone else of the opinion that the entire IRS should be shut down until this investigation is complete? It is becoming increasingly obvious that he organization is corrupt to the core, and I have to wonder how many other partisan actions the organization has carried out since this investigation began?
Just think, the Obamacare system is an integral part of the IRS now. How does that make you feel?
All emails that go to Obama have been lost! BUT, the Obama administration has finally captured one of the Benghazi terrorists (the one sitting in cafes drinking lattes), how convenient or is this just a way to distract the media away from the IRS scandal?
All emails that go to Obama have been lost! BUT, the Obama administration has finally captured one of the Benghazi terrorists (the one sitting in cafes drinking lattes), how convenient or is this just a way to distract the media away from the IRS scandal?
I'm of the opinion that the way this is being handled is demonstrating that we are no longer under rule of law. The actual accusations are less important than the flagrant violation and contempt for the law being shown by the administration. They're covering up something(s) big or it would have been easier to toss Lerner under the bus and make the problem go away.
Historians take note. This is the smoking gun.
One of many, many smoking guns...
But this is just the latest example of this administration doing something and just flipping the bird at the rules. Yeah, past administrations have done their share of BS... but Most transparent administration, my ass. Can't wait to see who he pardons on his way out...
and they lost more... (and knew about it for months...)
All emails that go to Obama have been lost! BUT, the Obama administration has finally captured one of the Benghazi terrorists (the one sitting in cafes drinking lattes), how convenient or is this just a way to distract the media away from the IRS scandal?
Yes, this is the same "suspect" who hasn't been in hiding and we've known his whereabouts since the attack. I don't deny he's a likely suspect and as such should be apprehended, but it's such a patently obvious diversion tactic it insults the intelligence of house plants.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to know that the administration, along with using the NSA, knows where all of these guys are and can send in a SEAL team to grab him at just about any time. But they wait until it's more politically advantageous to do so. It just seems that, as is seemingly true for most of our elected officials, good or bad for the American people matters not. It's all about what will be good for him and his party. This is all starting to come back and bite some of these politicians in the but. But we as American citizens have to hold them to what they say and do or else they continue to do this kinda of crap and will be the unfortunate recipients of the consequences.
Originally posted by Formula88: ...This is normal procedure for any IT shop and email data retention is a serious matter due to federal laws concerning eDiscovery. Those laws were put in place specifically to prevent a defendant from just claiming "my computer crashed" to avoid turning over evidence.
They are either in violation of the law for failure to provide discovery data, or they are in violation of the law for failure to properly archive the data, or they are in violation of the law for willfully destroying the data.
I think they need to put some heat on the IT guys. I'm pretty sure they know exactly where to find the data in question. I don't think any of them will be willing to go to prison for the "suits". (Seems like I heard, within the last couple of days, that some of the IT guys were already starting to come forward.)
I wouldn't be at all surprised to know that the administration, along with using the NSA, knows where all of these guys are and can send in a SEAL team to grab him at just about any time. But they wait until it's more politically advantageous to do so. It just seems that, as is seemingly true for most of our elected officials, good or bad for the American people matters not. It's all about what will be good for him and his party. This is all starting to come back and bite some of these politicians in the but. But we as American citizens have to hold them to what they say and do or else they continue to do this kinda of crap and will be the unfortunate recipients of the consequences.
Didn't need the NSA for this guy. He was out in the open. There were plenty of reports of him living large without a care in the world, but anyone who said that was accused of racist partisanship.
I think they need to put some heat on the IT guys. I'm pretty sure they know exactly where to find the data in question. I don't think any of them will be willing to go to prison for the "suits". (Seems like I heard, within the last couple of days, that some of the IT guys were already starting to come forward.)
I wonder if they'll get Snowden'ed and have to flee to Russia?
Anyone else of the opinion that the entire IRS should be shut down until this investigation is complete? It is becoming increasingly obvious that he organization is corrupt to the core, and I have to wonder how many other partisan actions the organization has carried out since this investigation began?
No. They should be shut down permanently. Move to a flat consumption tax, no exemptions, and let the banks collect it and send it to the Feds/state in real time.
No. They should be shut down permanently. Move to a flat consumption tax, no exemptions, and let the banks collect it and send it to the Feds/state in real time.
Sounds good to me. Maybe not get the banks involved, but better that than what we have now...
As an outsider, I am sad to predict this will go the way of Bengahzi, Fast and the Furious, etc. and just disappear under the rug. I worry about you guys down south and how wiling you are to put up with these deceits.
[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 06-18-2014).]
What about States like Oregon that have no sales tax?
What about them? Other states have it. It's a known system. You don't have to design something new from scratch, just implement the same thing most other states already use. I'll wager all PoS systems in Oregon have the system in place, and just set the tax rate to 0.
As an outsider, I am sad to predict this will go the way of Bengahzi, Fast and the Furious, etc. and just disappear under the rug. I worry about you guys down south and how wiling you are to put up with these deceits.
Not "willing", but what do you do? Vote? Protest? Go on a bus and such?
As an outsider, I am sad to predict this will go the way of Bengahzi, Fast and the Furious, etc. and just disappear under the rug. I worry about you guys down south and how wiling you are to put up with these deceits.
History can be a good teacher for those willing to learn. Winston Churchill railed against Hitler for years and was ridiculed and derided the entire time while Neville Chamberlain made concessions and proclaimed "Peace for our time!" It wasn't until the London blitz that Brits really began to understand the threat they faced.
I'm not saying Obama is a neo-Hitler. (actually, he'd be closer to Neville Chamberlain) I'm saying his supporters are going to ignore the threat until it's too late.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 06-18-2014).]
If people feel as strongly as is sometimes indicated here, and is as ardent a believer in why this country was founded, To make money and keep it, and to guarantee our children that they will be able to do the same; i.e. freedom.Hint they would tear down this Government and build a brand new one.
Which will eventually end up just like this one. It's a dirty game, no matter how clean you start...
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 06-18-2014).]
Sounds good to me. Maybe not get the banks involved, but better that than what we have now...
Only reason i say banks is so we dont have to deal with it at a consumer level. We 'know' it comes off the top of every sale, but we dont have to deal with getting it to the feds. I also dont want the companies who sell goods to be involved with it too. ( less overhead cost )
If people feel as strongly as is sometimes indicated here, and is as ardent a believer in why this country was founded, To make money and keep it, and to guarantee our children that they will be able to do the same; i.e. freedom.Hint they would tear down this Government and build a brand new one.
Which will eventually end up just like this one. It's a dirty game, no matter how clean you start...
Personally i say it needs to be torn down, everyone kicked out, and then return to the system our founders created. What we have now is NOT what made this country great. It is a pale perversion of where we came from.
Only reason i say banks is so we dont have to deal with it at a consumer level. We 'know' it comes off the top of every sale, but we dont have to deal with getting it to the feds. I also dont want the companies who sell goods to be involved with it too. ( less overhead cost )
How would that work? If it's not done at the final point of sale, how do you know what the final sale price is without government setting the price. If it's left up to the retailer, the same product will have different prices at different outlets.
How would that work? If it's not done at the final point of sale, how do you know what the final sale price is without government setting the price. If it's left up to the retailer, the same product will have different prices at different outlets.
Easy. They know how much you paid in their POS. Besides that, it doesn't matter how much you paid individually, its how much all their sales were at the end of the day, what is in the register. That amount gets passed up to the bank, and they peel off the % that goes to the feds. The store still sets the price. ( and how much profit they get.. )
Since its a flat tax on every sale, it dont matter how much each item is, or what it was.. "we sold 4000 in merchandise today" and the bank sends 40 bucks out of the stores account to the federal reserve ( or whatever )
[This message has been edited by Nurb432 (edited 06-18-2014).]
We had the almost unheard of double disk array failure happen a couple of years back (We're a fairly large e-commerce company) Our core operating systems were down for about 3 days..
All consumer data, credit data, order data, e-mails.. All fully backed up because we're required to do so by law. At the time we were double redundant, we are now triple redundant.
So with that said.. I'm calling Bullshito! No if's and or maybe's. They are Lying! It simply isn't possible to lose that data anymore. You could nuke Kansas City where the major archives are kept and there are still backups.
If I were on the investigating committee I'd simply call in 10 IT guys with varying experience and levels of qualifications to dispute the IRS/Lerner claim. That or raise Belushi from the dead to cough "busht" during the IRS/Lerner testimony.
First of all, the emails should be on the server backups from that period of time. Second, it's her LOCAL machine that died, not the server, and one other thing- if she sent emails to other people, wouldn't those emails she sent be in THEIR archived inboxes?
Now they are saying the her hdd was recycled (tossed)
If I sent email to you,it would be in my "sent items" folder, and your inbox. Two places. Are they saying they have not only lost her email (because her local drive died) but they have no backups of their exchange server(s) from that period?
Personally i say it needs to be torn down, everyone kicked out, and then return to the system our founders created. What we have now is NOT what made this country great. It is a pale perversion of where we came from.
We need to start *SOMEWHERE*, this sounds like a good place to start. Betcha they'd whine about the loss of jobs(which they never did prior when their desirous doomed various companies and industries...
We cannot let this scandal pass by, those emails are still sitting there.
Ex-IRS official Lois Lerner’s crashed hard drive has been recycled, making it likely the lost emails of the lightening rod in the tea party targeting controversy will never be found, according to multiple sources.
“We’ve been informed that the hard drive has been thrown away,” Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah, the top Republican on the Finance Committee, said in a brief hallway interview. Two additional sources told POLITICO the same late Wednesday, citing IRS officials.
It may just be standard government procedure, but the revelation is significant because some lawmakers and observers thought there was a way that tech experts could revive Lerner’s emails after they were washed away in a computer crash in the summer of 2011. House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), for example, subpoenaed her damaged hard drive earlier this week, when he asked for “all hard drives, external drives, thumb drives and computers” and “all electronic communication devices the IRS issued to Lois G. Lerner.”
Ex-IRS official Lois Lerner’s crashed hard drive has been recycled, making it likely the lost emails of the lightening rod in the tea party targeting controversy will never be found, according to multiple sources.
*snip*
I would like to know what email environment they are using. Any modern 'enterprise' system does not store the only copy on the workstation, and have no record of it on the server ( and later, on the backups... that should be stored forever in a government situation ).
Problem is so many people dont understand how things work, they will just take this at face value.
In government speak, "lost" actually means "deleted" or "shredded".
Speaking as an insider, not always, as sometimes accidents do happen, but in this case it was intentional. ( and as more and more things become digital, accidents become less and less of an option )
Ex-IRS official Lois Lerner’s crashed hard drive has been recycled, making it likely the lost emails of the lightening rod in the tea party targeting controversy will never be found, according to multiple sources.
“We’ve been informed that the hard drive has been thrown away,” Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah, the top Republican on the Finance Committee, said in a brief hallway interview. Two additional sources told POLITICO the same late Wednesday, citing IRS officials.
It may just be standard government procedure, but the revelation is significant because some lawmakers and observers thought there was a way that tech experts could revive Lerner’s emails after they were washed away in a computer crash in the summer of 2011. House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), for example, subpoenaed her damaged hard drive earlier this week, when he asked for “all hard drives, external drives, thumb drives and computers” and “all electronic communication devices the IRS issued to Lois G. Lerner.”
It doesn't matter. The data wasn't on the desktop hard drive to begin with. If there were a real HDD failure, standard practice for sensitive data would be to degauss the drive to destroy any remaining data before discarding it. The drive would be shredded by a destruction company.
That still doesn't get them around the fact that the local desktop wasn't the sole location of the data. They need to subpoena the entire IT team responsible for the email system she used as well as all server side data stores and backup records. The servers her data resided on should be seized as evidence. Unless the drives have been shredded in an obvious attempt to destroy evidence, the data will still be recoverable even if deleted from a functioning server array.
Let's see the excuse they come up with to explain how her desktop, the server cluster her email was on, and the backups of those servers were all mysteriously destroyed.
This is criminal, either in destroying evidence, refusing to supply evidence, or in violation of data retention laws. They've lied themselves into a corner where no matter which lie you believe, the law was broken.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 06-19-2014).]
Speaking as an insider, not always, as sometimes accidents do happen, but in this case it was intentional. ( and as more and more things become digital, accidents become less and less of an option )
I don't buy it. I doubt they could even *intentionally* delete all the emails. They may have notified people to get rid of any of the emails, but they still exist *somewhere*. I think it's just time to burn that effing place to the ground.
Internal Revenue Service Commissioner John Koskinen (KOSS-kuh-nenn) is telling Congress that eight federal employees connected to the tea party investigation experienced hard drive crashes.
