This is not sitting right with me. First, the administration was supposed to notify Congress thirty days in advance. Susan Rice, the mouth piece advancing the Bengahzi video bullzhit, says there was not time to do so, that the deal could have fallen through. That notifying Congress may have produced a leak jeopardizing the release. That the five terrorists exchanged for one POW(?) was justified because Nobama wants to close Gitmo anyway (calling it a high priority). That Bergdahl's health was deteriorating. More bullzhit. Secondly, negotiating with terrorists. They just put a price on every service members head. Thirdly, five terrorists traded for one POW, ? The five considered the worst of the worst. Forth, Bergdahl's fellow soldiers call him a deserter. Lastly, maybe, is the strange interview with his parents after his release. His Mom did ok but his Dad was wacky. From his appearance, to the delegation of "seeers" he has sent to his son's side, telling his son to listen to them, to his statement that all should let their son decompress, that there would be time for interviews and book deals later.
All along there were questions about Bergdahl and how he was "captured" or if he just walked into the enemy camp. If somehow the idiots in charge think that these Taliban murders will not come back against us they are sadly mistaken. And yes this does put a price on every soldier and civilian in the whole Middle East.
As to the illegal part of this: What difference does it make at this point anyways? This administration obviously feels that it is an imperial presidency and they make or break laws as they go along to suite their desires.
Something's fishy. I find it hard to believe the Taliban kept him alive for 5 years. Given his father's pro-Taliban stance, and the high value terrorist detainees at Gitmo who were released to secure his return, something doesn't add up.
The only possible saving grace in all of this is if someone in the intelligence community had the foresight to plant tracking devices on the five prisoners before they were released. They're supposed to stay in Qatar for a year. But c'mon. We all know there's a good chance they won't spend but a few weeks, maybe months, there before they somehow "escape."
We all know they are going to rejoin the Taliban and kill more people. This "returning" soldier might also be brainwashed by now and could possibly be a sleeper ready to help our enemies.
This situation really pisses me off. They traded five murderous terrorists for this deserter. What are the odds that these five terrorists are going to kill more American troops? Several soldiers lost their lives looking for this POS when he deserted. He should be court mashalled. This administration promoted him.
We all know they are going to rejoin the Taliban and kill more people. This "returning" soldier might also be brainwashed by now and could possibly be a sleeper ready to help our enemies.
How come we don't know the opposite is true. Doesn't fit your conspiracy theories and hate?
There's a column about this on the Bloomberg News website. Here's an excerpt:
An administration official, responding to the Republican reaction, said the threat posed by the detainees would be sufficiently mitigated and that the agreement was in U.S. national-security interests.
The swap is consistent with Obama’s push to both close Guantanamo Bay and transfer security responsibility in Afghanistan to that nation’s government as U.S. combat operations come to a close, said the official, who requested anonymity to discuss administration strategy.
The official’s comments hinted that the deal is seen as potentially helping the Afghan government, which soon will have a new president, in efforts to end strife with the Taliban -- a point seconded by Jonah Blank, a senior political scientist at the Santa Monica, California-based RAND Corporation.
“The Taliban prisoners released weren’t mere bargaining chips: It’s quite possible that, as influential figures, they’ll facilitate a broader negotiated settlement,” in Afghanistan, said Blank, a former staff member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
The detainees released from Guantanamo Bay, according to a U.S. defense official with direct knowledge of the matter, are: Mohammad Fazl, Mullah Norullah Noori, Mohammed Nabi, Khairullah Khairkhwa, and Abdul Haq Wasiq. Fazl is a former deputy defense minister for the Taliban, Wasiq is a former deputy intelligence minister, and Norulla Noori and Khairkhwa were regional governors.
Fazl has been connected to the murder of thousands of Shiite Muslims, and “was noted having a long record of human rights abuses,” according to a classified 2008 Defense Department detainee assessment that previously has been posted online by WikiLeaks, an anti-secrecy group.
This whole thing seems to stink. The returned soldiers father is now assuring other Muslim's that he is working to free the remaining prisoners from Guantanamo. Has Obama said why he did an end run around Congress with this latest incident?
Originally posted by Tony Kania: The two of you hold such great expectations for islam. No matter what happens, both of you are quick to defend.
I offered that in a neutral way, for further discussion. If I wanted to use this to "defend Islam", or defend Obama (which I suspect is as much your target here as Islam), would I have included that last paragraph, that says that there seems to be evidence to implicate one of these Gitmo's as especially culpable in the killings of 1000s of Shia Muslims? Would I provide a link to an article that includes that paragraph?
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 06-02-2014).]
Go team Obama! spends your money faster than a speed addicted crack whore, able to leap over the constriction without a single sound, the MAN OF STEAL.
All of us must at least admit that we don't really know anything about the capture, imprisonment, negotiation, trade, etc. or any of the gathered & collected intel what-so-ever about this situation other then what the "news sources" tell us.... This could be a well-calculated plan with many hidden objectives so far above the average American's security clearance & mental pay-grade that to even pretend to have enough information to come to any kind of rational conclusion or decision is egomaniacal at worst and foolish at best.
We probably don't have even half a clue of the intricacies of even the simplest moves at the higher levels of this operation (war on terror). What you can bet on is that it is WAY more complicated then guns-on-the-ground & the acquisition & retention of nouns (people, places, & things).
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 06-02-2014).]
I offered that in a neutral way, for further discussion. If I wanted to use this to "defend Islam", or defend Obama (which I suspect is as much your target here as Islam), would I have included that last paragraph, that says that there seems to be evidence to implicate one of these Gitmo's as especially culpable in the killings of 1000s of Shia Muslims? Would I provide a link to an article that includes that paragraph?
Typical muslim defensive reply.
I do not know the details, but good for us. We now have several high ranking taliban members walking free. Yeah America!
All of us must at least admit that we don't really know anything about the capture, imprisonment, negotiation, trade, etc. or any of the gathered & collected intel what-so-ever about this situation other then what the "news sources" tell us.... This could be a well-calculated plan with many hidden objectives so far above the average American's security clearance & mental pay-grade that to even pretend to have enough information to come to any kind of rational conclusion or decision is egomaniacal at worst and foolish at best.
We probably don't have even half a clue of the intricacies of even the simplest moves at the higher levels of this operation (war on terror). What you can bet on is that it is WAY more complicated then guns-on-the-ground & the acquisition & retention of nouns (people, places, & things).
Or, it may be just as simple as he once again did not follow the laws of our land and the proper delegation of federal powers AND he broke the sacred rule of "we do not negotiate with terrorists".
There are very very very very very very good reasons for that rule. But I forgot, they are so much smarter than any body else that failed ideas will actually work for them,,,,, this time,,,,,,,, because they want it to.
They just made every American around the world a valuable target for terrorists, commodity for trade .
Originally posted by cliffw:They just put a price on every service members head.
This is all that I need to know to say no, sorry we can not do that. Incentives to people that have little to lose and the treasury/debt of the USA or the most evil the world has to offer to gain is a losing game from my side. Secondary issue of him being a possible deserter at a time of war means that he is dead anyway, right?
“They are undoubtedly among the most dangerous Taliban commanders held at Guantanamo,” said Thomas Joscelyn, a senior editor at the Long War Journal who keeps a close watch on developments concerning the detainees left at the Guantanamo Bay prison.
Fazl, for example, was the Taliban’s former deputy defense minister and is wanted by the United Nations for his role in massacres targeting Afghan’s Shi’ite Muslim population.
According to the 2008 Pentagon’s dossier on Fazl disclosed by Wikileaks (PDF), Noori also was a senior Taliban military figure and, according to his Pentagon dossier, was asked personally in 1995 by Osama bin Laden (PDF) to participate in an offensive against northern alliance warlord Rashid Dostum.
Wasiq, a former deputy minister of intelligence, at one point tried to cooperate with U.S. forces in Afghanistan and asked for a GPS system as well as a special radio to communicate with the U.S. military after the U.S. invasion in 2001. His dossier (PDF) says that he was a crucial liaison between the Taliban and other Islamic fundamentalist groups while he was deputy intelligence minister. But the 2008 report also said he was holding out information he had on other top al Qaeda and Taliban leaders during interrogations.
Khairkhwa, a former Taliban governor of Herat, was considered by the Pentagon’s 2008 dossier to be a likely heroin trafficker (PDF). That dossier also says he likely participated in meetings with Iranian officials after 9-11 to help plot attacks on U.S. forces following the invasion.
Iran has worked in some cases with the government that has replaced the Taliban in Afghanistan, but also has been accused by the U.S. military of supplying the Taliban and other insurgent groups with roadside bombs known as improvised explosive devices of IEDs.
Nabi held several military leadership posts for the Taliban and helped organize the al Qaeda/Taliban militias that fought against U.S. and coalition troops in the first year of the war, according to his Pentagon dossier (PDF).
Well, I see the corroborating links didn't copy into the text.. but they are not difficult to find.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 06-02-2014).]
Whether or not he was a deserter or not is pretty much immaterial too me. For me, it just shows that this administration WILL negotiate deals despite saying it wont. Now every joe thug in the world knows OBUMA will trade for kidnapped Americans.
Id like to see a full investigation (from someone who dont have a log in the fire) on his kidnapping from the start. If found to have left his post on his own accord and deserted, he should face a treason trial. Ive heard several from his unit in interviews today say he was very anti American while in their unit. One mentioned he said the US is the world bully and tries and force its way of life on every other country.
All of us must at least admit that we don't really know anything about the capture, imprisonment, negotiation, trade, etc. or any of the gathered & collected intel what-so-ever about this situation other then what the "news sources" tell us.... This could be a well-calculated plan with many hidden objectives so far above the average American's security clearance & mental pay-grade that to even pretend to have enough information to come to any kind of rational conclusion or decision is egomaniacal at worst and foolish at best.
We probably don't have even half a clue of the intricacies of even the simplest moves at the higher levels of this operation (war on terror). What you can bet on is that it is WAY more complicated then guns-on-the-ground & the acquisition & retention of nouns (people, places, & things).
Agreed. It seems it ok to believe the "lame stream media" when it can be skewed to fit the hate and fear. Otherwise you can't trust anything "they" say.
American citizens and military personnel have ALWAYS been potential targets (and it's not limited to Americans.) Do people really really think we weren't before this? Of course we were. I don't see this trade as being anything new or adding any new risk. It's always been there. You don't want to be in a position to be grabbed - then or now.
It's ludicrous to even suggest that we could wander around with total impunity before this terrible swap.
[This message has been edited by TK (edited 06-02-2014).]
The names of the soldiers that lost their lives looking for this deserter:
Private First Class Aaron Fairbairn Private First Class Justin Casillas Private First Class Morris Walker Staff Sergeant Clayton Bowen Staff Sergeant Kurt Curtiss Second Lieutenant Darryn Andrews Private First Class Matthew Martinek Staff Sergeant Michael Murphrey
The names of the soldiers that lost their lives looking for this deserter:
Private First Class Aaron Fairbairn Private First Class Justin Casillas Private First Class Morris Walker Staff Sergeant Clayton Bowen Staff Sergeant Kurt Curtiss Second Lieutenant Darryn Andrews Private First Class Matthew Martinek Staff Sergeant Michael Murphrey
Terrible losses. However I would submit that we don't know the details of what actually happened. Isn't there some kind of military trial etc. for desertion?
The swap is consistent with Obama’s push to both close Guantanamo Bay
Heh, yes his push, his campaign promise from how many years ago now? it aint going to happen. Obama does not want it to happen or it would have long ago. This does however prove he is not a complete idiot. It does however show he will say anything to anybody to get what he needs at a given time.
Going beyond the whole Obama violated the law, because nothing will happen that makes a difference with this imperial president.
I am glad that Bergdahl is free.
However, I think it is problematic that we negotiated for his release. I would bet that there was a whole lot of money exchanged too. We just don't know about it yet. Maybe we will maybe we won't know, but I would bet on there being money involved in some way.
Bergdahl should be allowed to recuperate and an investigation of his actions should be started. If evidence is there that he was anti American and deserted or left his post then he should be prosecuted. If found guilty he should be stripped of rank and then every dollar that was paid to him during this time he was in the custody of the Taliban should be taken from him. He then should be kicked out of the service with a dis-honorable discharge. I think that he has served enough time in the hands of the Taliban to also pay for his crime. That is unless it is found that he also cooperated with the Taliban and it led to either deaths of Americans, or their allies or destruction of American or ally property. Then he should be tried as a traitor. I don't know of any instances of this or of any allegations of these types of things, but you never know.
I have also seen a report out today that the former members of his group were pressured to not say anything to anyone especially the media about him. They are even supposed to have been forced to sign no disclosure forms about this too. That sounds like a full blown cover up from day one. What the heck is going on here.
Mullah Mohammad Fazl (Taliban army chief of staff): Fazl is “wanted by the UN for possible war crimes including the murder of thousands of Shiites.” Fazl “was associated with terrorist groups currently opposing U.S. and Coalition forces including al Qaeda, Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU), Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin (HIG), and an Anti-Coalition Militia group known as Harakat-i-Inqilab-i-Islami.” In addition to being one of the Taliban’s most experienced military commanders, Fazl worked closely with a top al Qaeda commander named Abdul Hadi al Iraqi, who headed al Qaeda’s main fighting unit in Afghanistan prior to 9/11 and is currently detained at Guantanamo.
Mullah Norullah Noori (senior Taliban military commander): Like Fazl, Noori is “wanted by the United Nations (UN) for possible war crimes including the murder of thousands of Shiite Muslims.” Beginning in the mid-1990s, Noori “fought alongside al Qaeda as a Taliban military general, against the Northern alliance.” He continued to work closely with al Qaeda in the years that followed.
Abdul Haq Wasiq (Taliban deputy minister of intelligence): Wasiq arranged for al Qaeda members to provide crucial intelligence training prior to 9/11. The training was headed by Hamza Zubayr, an al Qaeda instructor who was killed during the same September 2002 raid that netted Ramzi Binalshibh, the point man for the 9/11 operation. Wasiq “was central to the Taliban's efforts to form alliances with other Islamic fundamentalist groups to fight alongside the Taliban against U.S. and Coalition forces after the 11 September 2001 attacks,” according to a leaked JTF-GTMO threat assessment.
Khairullah Khairkhwa (Taliban governor of the Herat province and former interior minister): Khairkhwa was the governor of Afghanistan’s westernmost province prior to 9/11. In that capacity, he executed sensitive missions for Mullah Omar, including helping to broker a secret deal with the Iranians. For much of the pre-9/11 period, Iran and the Taliban were bitter foes. But a Taliban delegation that included Kharikhwa helped secure Iran’s support for the Taliban’s efforts against the American-led coalition in late 2001. JTF-GTMO found that Khairkhwa was likely a major drug trafficker and deeply in bed with al Qaeda. He allegedly oversaw one of Osama bin Laden’s training facilities in Herat.
Mohammed Nabi (senior Taliban figure and security official): Nabi “was a senior Taliban official who served in multiple leadership roles.” Nabi “had strong operational ties to Anti-Coalition Militia (ACM) groups including al Qaeda, the Taliban, the Haqqani Network, and the Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin (HIG), some of whom remain active in ACM activities.” Intelligence cited in the JTF-GTMO files indicates that Nabi held weekly meetings with al Qaeda operatives to coordinate attacks against U.S.-led forces.
Mullah Mohammad Fazl (Taliban army chief of staff): Fazl is “wanted by the UN for possible war crimes including the murder of thousands of Shiites.” Fazl “was associated with terrorist groups currently opposing U.S. and Coalition forces including al Qaeda, Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU), Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin (HIG), and an Anti-Coalition Militia group known as Harakat-i-Inqilab-i-Islami.” In addition to being one of the Taliban’s most experienced military commanders, Fazl worked closely with a top al Qaeda commander named Abdul Hadi al Iraqi, who headed al Qaeda’s main fighting unit in Afghanistan prior to 9/11 and is currently detained at Guantanamo.
Mullah Norullah Noori (senior Taliban military commander): Like Fazl, Noori is “wanted by the United Nations (UN) for possible war crimes including the murder of thousands of Shiite Muslims.” Beginning in the mid-1990s, Noori “fought alongside al Qaeda as a Taliban military general, against the Northern alliance.” He continued to work closely with al Qaeda in the years that followed.
Abdul Haq Wasiq (Taliban deputy minister of intelligence): Wasiq arranged for al Qaeda members to provide crucial intelligence training prior to 9/11. The training was headed by Hamza Zubayr, an al Qaeda instructor who was killed during the same September 2002 raid that netted Ramzi Binalshibh, the point man for the 9/11 operation. Wasiq “was central to the Taliban's efforts to form alliances with other Islamic fundamentalist groups to fight alongside the Taliban against U.S. and Coalition forces after the 11 September 2001 attacks,” according to a leaked JTF-GTMO threat assessment.
Khairullah Khairkhwa (Taliban governor of the Herat province and former interior minister): Khairkhwa was the governor of Afghanistan’s westernmost province prior to 9/11. In that capacity, he executed sensitive missions for Mullah Omar, including helping to broker a secret deal with the Iranians. For much of the pre-9/11 period, Iran and the Taliban were bitter foes. But a Taliban delegation that included Kharikhwa helped secure Iran’s support for the Taliban’s efforts against the American-led coalition in late 2001. JTF-GTMO found that Khairkhwa was likely a major drug trafficker and deeply in bed with al Qaeda. He allegedly oversaw one of Osama bin Laden’s training facilities in Herat.
Mohammed Nabi (senior Taliban figure and security official): Nabi “was a senior Taliban official who served in multiple leadership roles.” Nabi “had strong operational ties to Anti-Coalition Militia (ACM) groups including al Qaeda, the Taliban, the Haqqani Network, and the Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin (HIG), some of whom remain active in ACM activities.” Intelligence cited in the JTF-GTMO files indicates that Nabi held weekly meetings with al Qaeda operatives to coordinate attacks against U.S.-led forces.
i will save time they were super great honset boys just misunderstood i know i few here that would love to have them live next door to them cause they are very peaceful guys just misunderstood .
Originally posted by MadMark: I think that he has served enough time in the hands of the Taliban to also pay for his crime.
Surely you jest. That was payment for his stupidity.
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg: All of us must at least admit that we don't really know anything about the capture, imprisonment, negotiation, trade, etc. or any of the gathered & collected intel what-so-ever about this situation other then what the "news sources" tell us ...
Not true. You assume we believe what the news sources tell us. You seem to think us stupid that we can not judge the veracity of news info by reaction or lack of reaction to it. What do you not know ? I know we traded one lowly sergeant for five high ranking generals, which were picked by the Taliban. I know nobody has ever refuted allegations that he was a deserter. I know nobody ever sued those that made those allegations, or the ones who reported it. I know his father said, I heard him say it, that he told his son to follow his conscience. His father said, that while he was floating around careerless, mostly working in a coffee shop, that he was gonna go "help the people" of Haiti (I think I have the country correct) but changed his mind and instead wanted to help the Afghans, which is why he joined the service. I know that nobody refuted that these are in his e-mails ...
quote
E-mails reported by the late Michael Hastings in Rolling Stone in 2012 reveal what Bergdahl's fellow infantrymen learned within days of his disappearance: He told people that he no longer supported the U.S. effort in Afghanistan.
"The future is too good to waste on lies," he wrote to his parents. "And life is way too short to care for the damnation of others, as well as to spend it helping fools with their ideas that are wrong. I have seen their ideas and I am ashamed to even be American. The horror of the self-righteous arrogance that they thrive in. It is all revolting."
Bergdahl wrote to them, "I am sorry for everything. The horror that is America is disgusting."
I know the military had a preliminary investigation and concluded his actions were very suspect. I know that decision was not entered until he has a chance to tell his side.
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg: I would not like to try explaining the "politics" of prisoner exchange to a man inside The Hanoi Hilton from '64-'74...
Senator John McCain, the son of high ranking military brass with political pull, was offered release. He refused. That after his arm was broken and later his leg.
I would not like to try explaining the "politics" of prisoner exchange to a man inside The Hanoi Hilton from '64-'74...
None of those POWs simply abandoned their posts looking for the enemy. None of them became traitors to their own military. They remained loyal to the US, unlike Bergdahl.
Yes, I am well aware of what Bergdahl did. I am also well aware of what Hanoi Jane did to the "residents" of the Hanoi Hilton, too.
And as a military member I find their treatment at the hands of Hanoi Jane and Bergdahls conduct disgusting.
Our modern day Benedict Arnold should get his day in court.
I'll leave the current administration out of it for now.
[This message has been edited by htexans1 (edited 06-02-2014).]
? The five considered the worst of the worst.
This guy has more legal cover ups than our prez. You follow some evil people. 
