International outrage grows for Sudanese woman sentenced to death for apostasy
apostasy Published May 16, 2014 FoxNews.com Facebook29923 Twitter2206 Gplus584
International outrage is mounting over the death sentence a Sudanese judge ordered for the pregnant wife of an American citizen — all because she refuses to renounce her Christian faith.
Meriam Ibrahim, 26, was sentenced Thursday after being convicted of apostasy. The court in Khartoum ruled that Ibrahim must give birth and nurse her baby before being executed, but must receive 100 lashes immediately after having her baby for adultery — for having relations with her Christian husband. Ibrahim, a physician and the daughter of a Christian mother and a Muslim father who abandoned the family as a child, could have spared herself death by hanging simply by renouncing her faith.
"We gave you three days to recant but you insist on not returning to Islam," Judge Abbas Khalifa told Ibrahim, according to AFP. "I sentence you to be hanged to death."
But Ibrahim held firm to her beliefs.
“I was never a Muslim,” she answered. “I was raised a Christian from the start.”
Ibrahim was raised in the Christian faith by her mother, an Orthodox Christian from Ethiopia. She is married to Daniel Wani, a Christian from southern Sudan who has U.S. citizenship, according to sources who spoke on condition of anonymity.
"I was never a Muslim. I was raised a Christian from the start."
- Meriam Ibrahim
The cruel sentence drew condemnation from Amnesty International, the U.S. State Department and U.S. lawmakers.
“The refusal of the government of Sudan to allow religious freedom was one of the reasons for Sudan’s long civil war,” Rep. Chris Smith, R-N.J., chairman of the House congressional panel that oversees U.S. policy in Africa, said in a statement. “The U.S. and the rest of the international community must demand Sudan reverse this sentence immediately.”
Amnesty International called the sentence a “flagrant breach” of international human rights law and the U.S. State Department said it was “deeply disturbed” by the ruling, which will be appealed.
Khalifa refused to hear key testimony and ignored Sudan's constitutional provisions on freedom of worship and equality among citizens, according to Ibrahim's attorney Al-Shareef Ali al-Shareef Mohammed.
“The judge has exceeded his mandate when he ruled that Meriam’s marriage was void because her husband was out of her faith,” Mohammed told The Associated Press. “He was thinking more of Islamic Shariah laws than of the country’s laws and its constitution.”
Ibrahim and Wani married in a formal ceremony in 2011 and have an 18-month-old son, Martin, who is with her in jail. The couple operate several businesses, including a farm, south of Khartoum, the country’s capital. Wani fled to the United States as a child to escape the civil war in southern Sudan, but later returned. He is not permitted to have custody of the little boy, because the boy is considered Muslim and cannot be raised by a Christian man.
Sudan’s penal code criminalizes the conversion of Muslims into other religions, which is punishable by death. Muslim women in Sudan are further prohibited from marrying non-Muslims, although Muslim men are permitted to marry outside their faith. Children, by law, must follow their father’s religion.
Islamic Shariah laws were introduced in Sudan in the early 1980s under the rule of autocrat Jaafar Nimeiri, whose decision led to the resumption of an insurgency in the mostly animist and Christian south of Sudan. An earlier round of civil war lasted 17 years, ending in 1972. In 2011, the south seceded to become the world’s newest nation, South Sudan.
Sudanese President Omar Bashir, an Islamist who seized power during a 1989 military coup, said his county will implement Islam more strictly now that the non-Muslim south is gone. A number of Sudanese have been convicted of apostasy in recent years, but they have all escaped execution by recanting their faith. Religious thinker and politican Mahmoud Mohammed Taha — a vocal critic of Nimeiri — was sentenced to death after his conviction of apostasy and was executed at the age of 76 in 1985.
Ibrahim’s case first came to the attention of authorities in August, when members of her father’s family complained that she was born a Muslim but married a Christian man. They claimed her birth name was “Afdal” before she changed it to Meriam. The document produced by relatives to indicate she was given a Muslim name at birth was a fake, Mohammed said.
Ibrahim refused to answer the judge when he referred to her as “Afdal” during Thursday’s hearing.
Ibrahim was initially charged with having illegitimate sex last year, but she remained free pending trial. She was later charged with apostasy and jailed in February after she declared in court that Christianity was the only religion she knew.
The US-based Center for Inquiry is demanding that all charges against Ibrahim be dropped, saying the death sentence is a clear violation of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which forbids persecution or coercion of religious beliefs and the right to marry.
“Religious belief must never be coerced and free expression must never be punished, through threat of imprisonment, violence, or any other means,” the group wrote in a letter to Sudan’s UN ambassador, H.E. Hassan Hamid Hassan. “This cannot go unanswered, and the world will not stand for it.”
Fox News' Joshua Rhett Miller and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
You called, Mr. Kania? Really? Anything but acceptable. A travesty of Islam (IMO). If you just wanted to yank my chain, your work is done. But I see this as no different and no more authentically Islamic than the kidnappings of all those young Christian schoolgirls in Nigeria. As I posted, just a few days ago. WWTPMS?
Maybe we'll see 5000-1000 Muslims protesting in the streets and declaring that this sentence is not in accordance with teachings of the Koran. Maybe. Maybe an asteroid will crash thru my roof tonight and send me to my own eternal doom as well. Odds for either are about equal.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-21-2014).]
You called, Mr. Kania? Really? Anything but acceptable. A travesty of Islam (IMO). If you just wanted to yank my chain, your work is done. But I see this as no different and no more authentically Islamic than the kidnappings of all those young Christian schoolgirls in Nigeria. As I posted, just a few days ago. WWTPMS?
That's what Islam could be, if its foundational texts were being interpreted in a properly Islamic way.
Unfortunately, that's not the way so many of today's "Muslims" like to roll.
Who is to say they are actually wrong! they (millions) sure think they are right. I would have to say that many of yesterdays muslims ran that way too, this is CERTAINLY nothing new..
There's no greater glory then to be Martyred for standing up for your belief in your God. Religions dig that. Everyone should be happy; Those doing the martyring for THEIR religion, and those doing the getting martyred for theirs.
I personally find it disgusting...
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 05-21-2014).]
There's soooo much outrage over this, but what's anyone really going to do about it? EVERY OTHER person on earth could get mad and stomp their feet and throw a tantrum about what bureaucrats in another country are doing, and aside from possibly throwing up a lot of dust and maybe causing an earthquake or 2, nothing's going to change.
There's no greater glory then to be Martyred for standing up for your belief in your God. Religions dig that. Everyone should be happy; Those doing the martyring for THEIR religion, and those doing the getting martyred for theirs.
I personally find it disgusting...
Other than living with the terror of knowing that you will be hung by the neck until dead and not being able to live your natural life with your husband and children, it's all good! I'm sure that's what she had in mind the whole time!
Other than living with the terror of knowing that you will be hung by the neck until dead and not being able to live your natural life.....
That's what martyring is.....it's why I find it disgusting that it's thought of as righteous. They're killing for their Bible and she's dying for hers.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 05-21-2014).]
That's what martyring is.....it's why I find it disgusting that it's thought of as righteous. They're killing for their Bible and she's dying for hers.
I don't see this as an example of someone who jumped up and down saying "I don't care about your laws or traditions or religion, I'm going to do my own thing and I don't care what you think".
She was targeted and confronted and forced into this position. I very seriously doubt that she has ANY desire to be martyred.
I think her situation might be similar to being forced to pick the order her children will be murdered. It's just something she cannot do.
I will say this though... there is not a member here that I would not stand up for, lend a hand, or give half of my last meal to. I am an azzhole, but a caring one. I banter back and forth with a few of you gerbils, but I still love you as fellow humans. Stories like this drive me nuts. (Just like the steering wheel belt buckle I have. It drives me nuts!)
Some of this problem falls in the lap of our state department and our immigration policies. Her husband is an American Citizen. Her children would be accepted as American and she should be give at the very least a green card if not citizenship. However, our government is so slow to recognize her right to citizenship by being married to an American citizen that she has been put in this position. It is my understanding that she wants to come to America to be with her husband. But, we have stifled that desire and therefore she is in jeopardy of losing her life.
Some would rather grant citizenship and all kinds of benefits to people who are here in this country illegally. Doesn't that boggle your mind?
Also, our state department is so feckless they cannot seem to come up with a policy or a means of pushing for her release. Certainly we could easily withhold our government's largess to this corrupt inhumane government. Why would we give money to keep them in power. There are certainly other things that can be done to persuade them too that I would not have any knowledge of, all without creating war. Are we that diminished in power and authority as the one super power left in the world?
Haven't read Mark's link (I'm hurriedly called out the door again this morning) but I suspect, the state dept doesn't want to push the citizenship matter very much. The white house mouthpiece was pointedly asked about this aspect twice this week in a press conference, and pretty much dodged the question, saying "We have no information to give on this part of it" Then when asked a second time, said they would look into it and get back to them but journalists got no response when they emailed and phoned the press office the next 3 days, in spite of the husband having marriage and birth certificates. State is insisting on DNA proof. Mid terms are coming up, and to admit that our govt sat idly by while an American citizen was whipped then hung will be something that no elected official would want to have to answer to--another round of "who knew what and when" debacle......... just my opinion.
quote
The U.S. State Department on Monday declined to say if Martin Wani, a 20-month-old Christian boy imprisoned by the Islamist Sudanese government, is a U.S. citizen.
“You don’t know whether that little boy in prison is a U.S. citizen?” CNSNews.com asked State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki at the department’s Monday press briefing.
“I don’t have any more details to share,” Psaki said.
The State Department also would not say if the boy’s father, Daniel Wani, is a U.S. citizen and if, as the father has reportedly said, the U.S. Embassy in Khartoum asked the father to secure DNA evidence to prove his imprisoned 20-month-old son was in fact his son.
Meriam Ibrahim—the toddler’s mother and fellow prisoner--was sentenced to be executed last week by a Sudanese court. Her capital offense was refusing to renounce her Christian faith.
Daniel Wani, Meriam Ibrahim’s husband, is reportedly a naturalized U.S. citizen who has been seeking help from the U.S. State Department for himself, his son, his wife, and the unborn child, who Meriam Ibrahim is now carrying in the eighth month of pregnancy.
Meriam, 27, was born in Sudan to a Muslim father and Ethiopian Orthodox mother, according to Morning Star News, a Christian news site. Her father reportedly left the family when she was six and her mother raised her as a Christian. She and Daniel Wani married in the Christian faith in 2012 and had their first child, Martin Wani.
In February, she and the boy were imprisoned. At the time, she was five months pregnant. The boy is in prison with his mother, according to the Morning Star News, because Sudan will not allow his father to take care of him because his father is a Christian.
In March, a Sudanese court charged the mother with apostasy for professing Christianity after having been born of a Muslim father. The court also charged her with “adultery” for relations with her own husband because Sudan refuses to recognize the marriage of a Muslim woman to a Christian man.
Last week, after Meriam refused to renounce her Christian faith, the court sentenced her to be flogged for adultery and executed for apostasy.
On April 28, Morning Star News reported that Daniel Wani said the State Department was not being helpful to him, his U.S. citizen son, his unborn child and his wife.
“My wife was never a Muslim,” Wani told the Morning Star News. “As an American citizen, I ask the people and government of the USA to help me.”
The news site reported that Wani said the U.S. Embassy in Khartoum wanted him to provide DNA evidence to prove the imprisoned toddler, Martin Wani, was his son.
“I will have to take a DNA sample in Khartoum, then send it to the USA for testing,” Wani told the news site. “I have provided wedding documents and the baby’s birth certificate, and doors were closed on his face.”
“I have tried to apply for papers to travel to the USA with my wife and child, but the American Embassy in Sudan did not help me,” Wani said. “My son is an American citizen living in a difficult situation in prison.”
Last Thursday evening, CNSNews.com sent the State Department press office and the National Security Staff press officers at the White House a link to this story at the Morning Star News and asked a series of written questions. Among these were whether Daniel Wani was a U.S. citizen, whether Martin Wani was a U.S. citizen by virtue of being Daniel’s son, and whether the State Department had asked Wani to secure DNA evidence to prove the imprisoned 20-month-old was his son.
By Monday morning, neither the State Department nor White House had responded.
At a State Department press briefing on Monday afternoon, CNSNews.com quoted to State Department spokesman Jen Psaki the statement from Daniel Wani in the Morning Star News in which Wani said he had brought his and Meriam Ibrahim’s wedding documents and Martin’s birth certificate to the U.S. Embassy in Khartoum, had tried to apply for papers to bring his wife and child to the U.S., and that the embassy told him it wanted to see a DNA test proving Martin was his son.
“First,” CNSNews.com asked Psaki, “is Meriam Ibrahim’s husband, Daniel Wani, a U.S. citizen? And is that 20-month-old boy in prison, by virtue of being his son, also a U.S. citizen?”
“Well, I don’t have any more details on this than what the statement the White House put out,” said Psaki. “Typically we don’t confirm those type of details, but I’m happy to check and see if there’s more to share.”
“You don’t know whether that little boy in prison is a U.S. citizen?” CNSNews.com asked.
“I don’t have any more details to share,” Psaki said.
CNSNews.com asked: “Did the embassy in Khartoum ask Mr. Wani to provide DNA evidence that that was his son?”
Psaki said: “We’re happy to check and see if there’s more to share.”
“You don’t know whether that’s the case?” CNSNews.com asked.
“Happy to check and see if there’s more to share,” she repeated.
Then CNSNews.com asked: “So, as of this moment, the U.S. government does not know whether that 20-month-old boy in prison in Sudan is an American citizen imprisoned because he’s a Christian?"
Psaki said: “I think I’ve addressed your questions, and I’m happy to follow up with you after the briefing.”
The White House statement that Psaki mentioned was issued last Thursday, when the Sudanese court sentenced Meriam Ibrahim to death. The statement did not say that Ibrahim was married to a U.S. citizen. Nor did it say that she was imprisoned with her 20-month-old son, Martin, or whether he was a U.S. citizen. Nor did it mention that she was eight-month pregnant.
“Today in Sudan, Meriam Yahya Ibrahim Ishag was sentenced to be flogged for adultery and to be hanged to death for apostasy because she married a Christian man,” said the statement from National Security Council Spokesperson Caitlin Hayden. “We strongly condemn this sentence and urge the Government of Sudan to meet its obligations under international human rights law.”
Late Monday afternoon, after the State Department briefing, CNSNews.com followed up with the State Department press office and spokesperson Jen Psaki via email.
CNSNews.com asked: “Is Meriam Ibrahim's 20-month-old son, who is in prison with her, a U.S. citizen by virtue of his father being a U.S. citizen? Is the unborn child, with whom Meriam Ibrahim is 8 months pregnant, entitled to U.S. citizenship because his father is a U.S. citizen?”
By the close of the day, the State Department had not responded, nor did it the next day.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-22-2014).]
Haven't read Mark's link (I'm hurriedly called out the door again this morning) but I suspect, the state dept doesn't want to push the citizenship matter very much. The white house mouthpiece was pointedly asked about this aspect twice this week in a press conference, and pretty much dodged the question, saying "We have no information to give on this part of it" Then when asked a second time, said they would look into it and get back to them but journalists got no response when they emailed and phoned the press office the next 3 days, in spite of the husband having marriage and birth certificates. State is insisting on DNA proof. Mid terms are coming up, and to admit that our govt sat idly by while an American citizen was whipped then hung will be something that no elected official would want to have to answer to--another round of "who knew what and when" debacle......... just my opinion.
AFAIK, one becomes a US citizen through marriage to a US citizen after a process that starts with filing the form and having met the following requirements:
quote
To be eligible for naturalization pursuant to section 319(a) of the INA, an applicant must:
Be 18 or older
Be a permanent resident (green card holder) for at least 3 years immediately preceding the date of filing Form N-400, Application for Naturalization
Have been living in marital union with the U.S. citizen spouse, who has been a U.S. citizen during all of such period, during the 3 years immediately preceding the date of filing the application and up until examination on the application
Have lived within the state, or USCIS district with jurisdiction over the applicant’s place of residence, for at least 3 months prior to the date of filing the application
Have continuous residence in the United States as a lawful permanent resident for at least 3 years immediately preceding the date of filing the application
Reside continuously within the United States from the date of application for naturalization until the time of naturalization
Be physically present in the United States for at least 18 months out of the 3 years immediately preceding the date of filing the application
Be able to read, write, and speak English and have knowledge and an understanding of U.S. history and government (also known as civics)
Be a person of good moral character, attached to the principles of the Constitution of the United States, and well disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States during all relevant periods under the law
Some of this problem falls in the lap of our state department and our immigration policies. Her husband is an American Citizen. Her children would be accepted as American and she should be give at the very least a green card if not citizenship. However, our government is so slow to recognize her right to citizenship by being married to an American citizen that she has been put in this position. It is my understanding that she wants to come to America to be with her husband. But, we have stifled that desire and therefore she is in jeopardy of losing her life.
Some would rather grant citizenship and all kinds of benefits to people who are here in this country illegally. Doesn't that boggle your mind?
Also, our state department is so feckless they cannot seem to come up with a policy or a means of pushing for her release. Certainly we could easily withhold our government's largess to this corrupt inhumane government. Why would we give money to keep them in power. There are certainly other things that can be done to persuade them too that I would not have any knowledge of, all without creating war. Are we that diminished in power and authority as the one super power left in the world?
It does boggle the mind. Our ineptness aside though we arent the government that chose to kill her. This is just one that made the news, I wouldnt doubt there will be more. The effort to straighten out other countries is abandoned by many citizens as I hear them say lets withdraw from everywhere. I think the way I look at it, its either hands on or hands off. We cant have it both ways.
Experts in Islamic law called the ruling [in Sudan] outrageous.
"The punishment has little to do with religion and serves as a political distraction," Mohamed Ghilan, an expert in Islamic jurisprudence, told Al Jazeera. "This is a ploy by the Sudanese regime to appear as 'defenders of Islam' to mitigate their corruption."
Activists have become increasingly vocal against President Omar al-Bashir, underscoring perceived corruption, political impasse and a plethora of internal conflicts.
Faced with these challenges, the Sudanese government found itself politically marginalised, Ghilan said. "The punishment is an attempt to give the regime legitimacy with the more conservative crowd."
"Historically, this sort of punishment was only implemented in cases where people didn’t just simply convert due to lack of conviction, but they would also join an opposing force," Ghilan said.
In this context, apostasy was tantamount to treason, according to Khaleel Mohammed, associate professor of religion at San Diego State University.
"One did not get sentenced to death simply for converting. Unfortunately, this does happen in certain places like Afghanistan and Sudan, but these judges are not very educated in Islamic law and are working from a tribal perspective."
Further, even in the context of war, women were historically excluded from punishment, Ghilan said. "Women could not be executed because of the vehement declaration of the prophet not to harm women."
In the end, I don't expect this woman to be executed. Eventually, the "players" in Sudan will find a way to get her out of the country. But that does't lessen my disgust at the idea that this "Islamic" death sentence would be proclaimed, and that the woman and her child (is that right?) are confined and the woman has been shackled with handcuffs and maybe even leg irons(?). I don't know about all the particulars of the way this woman is being treated, pending the appeals process.
Experts in Islamic law called the ruling [in Sudan] outrageous.
....
But, the book says it is ok? Seriously, why do you defend such horrible practices? You defend some seriously sick **** .
I have given references and forums where you can watch as islam murders, rapes, and commits acts of EXTREME atrocities. Thousands of videos alone show this. Thousands! Ala Akbar is always said when penetrating a woman, or beheading a child.
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 05-22-2014).]
I often think the reasons so many christians hate the muslims so much is because they still get to get away with this kind of BS
not sure what it is about this Jew God, but his/her/its followers sure seem to really love to dole out suffering.
Holy cow. Did you hurt anything making this degree of contortion to turn this into anything about christians liking to dole out suffering?
Or are you somehow relating muslims as followers of the "Jew God"?
You might want to join the 21st, 20th and most of the 19th century. Because I'm not remembering christianity doling out suffering like this for several centuries. But don't let that stop you.
Regarding international outrage, it can't be TOO outrageous for the current administration, because no one has been tweeting and hashtagging it. When that happens, then I'll know they are seriously outraged.
Originally posted by Tony Kania: But, the book says it is ok? Seriously, why do you defend such horrible practices? You defend some seriously sick **** .
I have given references and forums where you can watch as islam murders, rapes, and commits acts of EXTREME atrocities. Thousands of videos alone show this. Thousands! Ala Akbar is always said when penetrating a woman, or beheading a child.
The "book" (Qur'an) doesn't say that this is OK. It says to follow the ways of the Prophet, and this is not the way of the Prophet.
And you can demonstrate otherwise? Really? With specific references from the Qur'an and the other foundational texts and Islamic writings that have been passed down since the time of the Prophet? I'm waiting on you...
Islam can't kill anyone. It's an idea. People who claim an affiliation with Islam kill other people every day (and night).
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-22-2014).]
People who claim an affiliation with Islam kill other people every day (and night).
People who claim an affiliation with other religions kill other people also, historically. So I'm not singling them out.
But I don't live historically, I live today. TODAY, which religion has more people claiming an affiliation, and killing and doing harmful things disproportionately WAY more than any other religion?
It isn't even close. In fact, I can't even think of any other religion that has people claiming affiliation that are actively hurting or killing other people. None.
The "book" (Qur'an) doesn't say that this is OK. It says to follow the ways of the Prophet, and this is not the way of the Prophet.
And you can demonstrate otherwise? Really? With specific references from the Qur'an and the other foundational texts and Islamic writings that have been passed down since the time of the Prophet? I'm waiting on you...
Islam can't kill anyone. It's an idea. People who claim an affiliation with Islam kill other people every day (and night).
"Follow the ways of the prophet"? Like child rape?
Did I say I can demonstrate in the spineless book? No. I did not. You love to place words into people's mouths that were not, nor ever will be there. That is asinine. I have provided links to you in the past for THOUSANDS of recorded killings. Literally thousands. These are only the ones we see. I will easily have to believe that there are countless more. Don't be naïve, or play coy.
I have known about the ills of islam my entire life. Now, with the advent of such quick media coverage, it is even more apparent. I hope technology kills islam. I hope that the atrocities will stop due to our knowledge of this ilk performing their "in the name of allah" crap.
IMO there's no reason to justify or compare this to anything that others are doing or have done. This is wrong and despicable, period. What else is there to say?
The "book" (Qur'an) doesn't say that this is OK. It says to follow the ways of the Prophet, and this is not the way of the Prophet.
And you can demonstrate otherwise? Really? With specific references from the Qur'an and the other foundational texts and Islamic writings that have been passed down since the time of the Prophet? I'm waiting on you...
Islam can't kill anyone. It's an idea. People who claim an affiliation with Islam kill other people every day (and night).
You should ask the muslums that are doig this in the name of their god muhomid. They will find a hadith that supports this. islam is the worship of a man, the name of their god man is muhamid.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 05-23-2014).]
Originally posted by Tony Kania: I have zero interest in reading a book from a child rapist. Zero.
The things that you think that you know, you don't really know.
I am inclined to believe that Mohammed married Ayesha when she was grossly underage by most modern standards, but the marriage was not consummated until some years later, when Ayesha was at least 15 or 16:
quote
Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani has reported that Fatimah, Muhammad’s daughter, was five years older than Ayesha and that Fatimah was born when the Prophet was 35 years old. Thus, Ayesha, according to Ibn Hajar, was born when Muhammad was 40 and consummated her marriage when he was 54 or 55. That makes Aysha at least 15-16 years of age.
Is this a case of the Prophet (P.B.U.H.) having set an example of pedophilia for all later generations of Muslims to adopt?
I hardly think so. We're taking about events that were just 600 years into the Christian era, on the Arabian peninsula, where large segments of society were living according to tribal customs that were established long before the time of the Prophet himself.
There's the practice of Islam, and there's the malpractice of Islam. Only Islam's malpractitioners (and there are many) would use the story of Mohammed to encourage or justify underage brides in today's world--or pedophilia, which is an even more grotesque distortion of the Prophet's life, as it has become known to history.
Islam: It's supposed to be What Would Mohammed Do Today--not What Did Mohammed Do When He Lived.
That would be the proper observance of Islam, and not the grotesquely distorted versions that are (undeniably, and most unfortunately) so commonly apparent in today's world.
Originally posted by Rickady88GT: You should ask the muslums that are doig this in the name of their god muhomid. They will find a hadith that supports this.
islam is the worship of a man, the name of their god man is muhamid.
That's almost, but not fully accurate: The professed Muslims that are promoting or committing the latest Islamist atrocity (whichever atrocity that would be this very morning) will find some passage in the Qur'an or some textual reference from the Hadith as their justification.
I just found an equation E = mc2.
Does that make me a nuclear physicist?
The proper observance of Islam is to honor Mohammed as the number one prophet and the messenger of God. But the only god in Islam is Allah. The founding credo of Islam is most often translated as "No god but God".
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-23-2014).]
People do all kinds of disgusting things in the name of religion.
There are plenty of radicalized Muslims I don't think it's just the religion that radicalizes people but when people are less educated and poor it is more likely IMO.
[This message has been edited by newf (edited 05-23-2014).]
That's almost, but not fully accurate: The professed Muslims that are promoting or committing the latest Islamist atrocity (whichever atrocity that would be this very morning) will find some passage in the Qur'an or some textual reference from the Hadith as their justification.
I just found an equation E = mc2.
Does that make me a nuclear physicist?
The proper observance of Islam is to honor Mohammed as the number one prophet and the messenger of God. But the only god in Islam is Allah. The founding credo of Islam is most often translated as "No god but God".
So, what proof does islam have to show that muhamid is the #1 OR the last Prophet? His own words?
Call me "Captain Obvious", but what proof is there that someone called Jesus lived in the way of a mortal man, was crucified and then reappeared on Earth after the Resurrection? Lived like a mortal man, yes. Crucified: Easy enough to believe. Reappeared after the Resurrection? That would be a matter of faith.
I think that you standing on the same ground here (faith) as any proper Muslim.
That's almost, but not fully accurate: The professed Muslims that are promoting or committing the latest Islamist atrocity (whichever atrocity that would be this very morning) will find some passage in the Qur'an or some textual reference from the Hadith as their justification.
I just found an equation E = mc2.
Does that make me a nuclear physicist?
No, nor does it make you a religious scholar or expert, but it's interesting that you use the same process that fundamentalist Muslims use to justify violence. "I think--I believe" the Koran says/means "this". "I think--I believe" the prophet Muhammad meant "this". Those who claim that a very literal interpretation of any several thousand year old religious text should be used, often forget that more often than not, much vanquish and controversy arise when people attempt to do the same with our own much younger US Constitution. I'm sure our founding fathers thought their words were quite clear and concise, just as the writers of those old religious texts did, but we know today, that simply isn't the case in either case.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-23-2014).]
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