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Berkeley Study "Proves" the Rich Are Evil by Formula88
Started on: 05-19-2014 06:47 PM
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Last post by: newf on 05-24-2014 09:21 AM
Formula88
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Report this Post05-19-2014 06:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
http://abcnews.go.com/Techn...8468&singlePage=true

 
quote
Pity the rich. They drive their expensive cars with little respect for the law, they break the rules thinking they won’t have to face the consequences, and they even take candy from children.

Their unethical behavior, according to new research, is driven by the fact that they see nothing wrong with greed.

Psychologists at the University of California, Berkeley, have conducted seven studies involving nearly a thousand participants from college students to senior citizens indicating that the rich are, indeed, different from the rest of us.

Although the scientists concede that there are exceptions, “the really well-to-do have lost a little of their moral character,” psychologist Dacher Keltner, coauthor of a paper published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, said in a telephone interview.

Keltner, who led the research along with fellow psychologist Paul K. Piff, said his inbox has been jammed with feedback, mostly from working class citizens who say “it’s about time” someone paid attention to this problem.


The science has spoken. Now that we have proof of their evil nature, it's only just and right that whatever they have be taken from them since it was gotten through nefarious methods.

As Uncle Joe Biden might say, this is a big f*cking deal. A mindset is being created that very clearly separates the haves from the have nots, dehumanizes them and blames them for society's ills. Nothing unites a people like a common hatred. This type of mindset is, in part, what led to the French Revolution. Bit by tiny bit the pieces are being put into place. This nation is heading towards a dark age.
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Report this Post05-19-2014 07:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WichitaSend a Private Message to WichitaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just about every member of Congress are rich. What does that say?
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Report this Post05-19-2014 08:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Wichita:

Just about every member of Congress are rich. What does that say?


Ask Maximilien de Robespierre.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 05-19-2014).]

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Report this Post05-19-2014 08:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cmechmannSend a Private Message to cmechmannEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am one of those that has gotten fed up with the arrogance. The part that sets me off more is the trickling down of it all.
The ones that attempt to by a Lexus and can't afford to maintain it. The ones that mindlessly drop into a morgage that could have the interest rate blow out and lose their home. To me they at least, should "remember" where they came from.
No, they also tend to have that way about them. They see the affluent and expect to treat their fellow man the same way. And when the bucket drops out expect the rest of us to pick up the pieces.
Yeah the affluent are taxed. But it seems that they are not made to pay/work to fix things when it hits the fan like the rest of us even though they profited the most.
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Report this Post05-19-2014 08:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Red88FFSend a Private Message to Red88FFEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Holy crap that's some scary stuff!

Berkeley never stops surprising me. You would think they would be running out of people to fool.
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Report this Post05-19-2014 08:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for yellowstoneSend a Private Message to yellowstoneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:

Now that we have proof of their evil nature,


I understand the results of the study in such a way that being rich influences people's behavior. It doesn't say that they have an evil nature per se.

However, I think it's a hen-and-egg problem. Are reckless and ruthless people more likely to become rich in our society or does being/becoming rich make people more likely to be reckless and ruthless?
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Report this Post05-19-2014 08:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for yellowstoneSend a Private Message to yellowstoneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

yellowstone

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Member since Jun 2003
 
quote
Originally posted by Red88FF:

Holy crap that's some scary stuff!

Berkeley never stops surprising me. You would think they would be running out of people to fool.


"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

- John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton, first Baron Acton (1834–1902)

cor·rupt

1. having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
synonyms: dishonest, unscrupulous, dishonorable, unprincipled, unethical, amoral, untrustworthy, venal, underhanded, double-dealing, fraudulent, bribable, criminal, illegal, unlawful, nefarious;

I'd say that having money gives people power. In that sense, I would basically agree with the findings of the study. I'm actually not that surprised...

[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 05-19-2014).]

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Report this Post05-19-2014 08:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for heybjornSend a Private Message to heybjornEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No, getting rich is just luck. It appears to me, from what I read of rich people, that honest, hardworking determined people get rich just as often as morally bereft, reckless members of Cong . . . people.
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Report this Post05-19-2014 08:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by yellowstone:

However, I think it's a hen-and-egg problem. Are reckless and ruthless people more likely to become rich in our society or does being/becoming rich make people more likely to be reckless and ruthless?


4:10
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Report this Post05-19-2014 08:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cmechmann:

I am one of those that has gotten fed up with the arrogance. The part that sets me off more is the trickling down of it all.
The ones that attempt to by a Lexus and can't afford to maintain it. The ones that mindlessly drop into a morgage that could have the interest rate blow out and lose their home. To me they at least, should "remember" where they came from.
No, they also tend to have that way about them. They see the affluent and expect to treat their fellow man the same way. And when the bucket drops out expect the rest of us to pick up the pieces.
Yeah the affluent are taxed. But it seems that they are not made to pay/work to fix things when it hits the fan like the rest of us even though they profited the most.


I'm confused... I wouldn't call someone who finances a Lexus and / someone who goes into foreclosure a person that is affluent. I would call that a person who's trying to pretend they have more money than they actually do. Unless I misunderstood you.
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Report this Post05-19-2014 09:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cmechmannSend a Private Message to cmechmannEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The trickling down of the affluent arrogance. They see the arrogance and want to do it too.
None of it is right. But seems more hypicritical when the don't haves do it. (shoot me I can't spell)

I can't stand the new Escalade commercial. The one with the Pharoh, Persian royalty and Kings coach. The commercial makes it look normal to treat every one else like that if you by a Cadi Escalade.

OK, of course I'm biased. I'm a have not. But I refuse to be "punked" by those who try to treat me like that.
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Report this Post05-19-2014 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cmechmann:

OK, of course I'm biased. I'm a have not. But I refuse to be "punked" by those who try to treat me like that.


Made me smile.
And I dig that!
Thanx!
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Report this Post05-19-2014 09:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cmechmannSend a Private Message to cmechmannEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What ever they say I would rather vote for Realistican. The followers are out there. Just no one runs under that view.
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Report this Post05-19-2014 09:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Anyone that believes that anything coming out of Berkley isn't extremely unbalanced is either fooling themselves or drank way too much of the Kool Aide.

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My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug

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Report this Post05-19-2014 09:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FlyinFierosSend a Private Message to FlyinFierosEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Greed - one of the 'Seven Cardinal Sins'.

Science and religion actually agree on this one.
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Report this Post05-19-2014 10:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FlyinFieros:

Greed - one of the 'Seven Cardinal Sins'.

Science and religion actually agree on this one.



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Report this Post05-19-2014 10:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WichitaSend a Private Message to WichitaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Last time I experience trickle down, I was peeing in the wind.
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Report this Post05-19-2014 10:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FlyinFieros:

Greed - one of the 'Seven Cardinal Sins'.

Science and religion actually agree on this one.


Now we just have to agree on what exactly greed is...
Check it out the definition........sez who?
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Report this Post05-20-2014 01:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Red88FFSend a Private Message to Red88FFEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg:


Now we just have to agree on what exactly greed is...
Check it out the definition........sez who?


Unfortunately many seam to think that it is just having more than they have but not "sharing" it with them. I am not sure greed is even necessarily a bad thing, that is if greed is what greed may or may not be?.
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Report this Post05-20-2014 08:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FlyinFierosSend a Private Message to FlyinFierosEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:
Milton Friedman - Greed

Ok?

Milton defends unfettered pursuit of materialism on the basis it's really efficient at gaining material things.

The basis of the discussion here is that fundamental desire is morally corrupting.

 
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg:
........sez who?

Depends on your 'yardstick of morality'. For some that would be Jesus or Buddha, others, Donald Sterling.

[This message has been edited by FlyinFieros (edited 05-20-2014).]

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Report this Post05-20-2014 09:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FlyinFieros:

Milton defends unfettered pursuit of materialism on the basis it's really efficient at gaining material things.


Close, but not quite. He says it's individuals "pursuing their separate interests." That may or may not be material wealth, but certainly material gain is necessary to provide food and shelter. A largely free trade system allows individuals to do this more efficiently - not just to gain stuff. It would also include the artist pursuing their art, or a musician or poet or writer all pursuing their craft in exchange for the material necessities of life. They may have gained the stuff to live and thrive, but the goal was pursuing their interest beyond just gaining wealth.

He also never said it's completely unfettered, either. If you've ever listened - actually listened - to his lectures, he recognizes the necessary government role but when government's role becomes too big it interferes with the individual's freedom to pursue their separate interest.

Greed only has meaning when somebody is complaining that somebody ELSE wants too much.
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Report this Post05-20-2014 09:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for heybjornSend a Private Message to heybjornEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:

Greed only has meaning when somebody is complaining that somebody ELSE wants too much.


This.

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Report this Post05-20-2014 09:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for whadeduckSend a Private Message to whadeduckEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Who is to define what is greed and what is providing a comfortable life for themselves and their families? Is a man greedy because he likes fishing and buys a boat? Is a man greedy because he has a wife and four children so he buys a five bedroom home? Or is he greedy simply because someone has determined that he has things that others want but don't have?

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Report this Post05-20-2014 09:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for yellowstoneSend a Private Message to yellowstoneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:

He also never said it's completely unfettered, either. If you've ever listened - actually listened - to his lectures, he recognizes the necessary government role but when government's role becomes too big it interferes with the individual's freedom to pursue their separate interest.


No, this. Now there can be quite a discussion what's "necessary"...

But I think that the discussion here has veered off course. The question wasn't if greed is good but if wealth corrupts people morally. I'd say that is has the tendency to do so but it's not true for everybody and the degree of how much a person is "corrupted" varies greatly.


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Report this Post05-20-2014 09:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by yellowstone:


No, this. Now there can be quite a discussion what's "necessary"...

But I think that the discussion here has veered off course. The question wasn't if greed is good but if wealth corrupts people morally. I'd say that is has the tendency to do so but it's not true for everybody and the degree of how much a person is "corrupted" varies greatly.



Agreed, there are many people who have made many millions without destroying other peoples lives and even helping others while increasing their own wealth and others around them less fortunate than themselves.

I think I consider greed as someone who does anything and everything to increase their own wealth with no regard to how much it hurts others. think of people like Michael Milken, and Bernard Madoff.

On the other side of the coin you have people who have become rich while not destroying everyone in their way, think of people like, Stephan King, or Steve Jobs.

you can be rich without destroying everyone else around you, but you can also become rich by being a greedy SOB and stepping on everyone who gets in the way of them becoming rich. the latter is what I call greedy.

So in answer to the original question,

"Not always, just those people who have no morals like Michael Milken, and Bernard Madoff and the others who have no scruples in regards to increasing their wealth.

Steve

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[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 05-20-2014).]

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Report this Post05-20-2014 10:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by yellowstone:


No, this. Now there can be quite a discussion what's "necessary"...

But I think that the discussion here has veered off course. The question wasn't if greed is good but if wealth corrupts people morally. I'd say that is has the tendency to do so but it's not true for everybody and the degree of how much a person is "corrupted" varies greatly.



I agree on all points. The discussion of "necessary" is a never ending one - how much is enough and more importantly, "who" gets to decide.
Yes, while the article does comment on whether wealth corrupts (or is it just easier for the corrupt to gain wealth?), to me the larger issue is framing the discussion around equating wealthy with evil (or lacking morals, etc.).

In general people believe you should not be able to keep profits from ill-gotten gains. Proceeds from illegal activity are usually confiscated when the person is convicted of that crime.
Taking the profit or wealth from someone who has honestly earned it would be stealing, but if the person is evil and gained that wealth nefariously - it's unearned and taking it away from them is justice.

Another step to make people to want to take what others have and feel justified in doing so. This works to establish that the method used to become wealthy is irrelevant - simply having the wealth is evidence enough.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 05-20-2014).]

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Report this Post05-20-2014 10:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for yellowstoneSend a Private Message to yellowstoneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:

Yes, while the article does comment on whether wealth corrupts (or is it just easier for the corrupt to gain wealth?), to me the larger issue is framing the discussion around equating wealthy with evil (or lacking morals, etc.).


You can do this, of course, but the study that the article presents doesn't do it and I think that the findings ring true based on my own observations and experiences.

Or are you saying that some research shouldn't be carried out because the findings might be inconvenient and/or misused by someone else?

[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 05-20-2014).]

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Report this Post05-20-2014 10:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FriendGregorySend a Private Message to FriendGregoryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FlyinFieros:

Depends on your 'yardstick of morality'. For some that would be Jesus or Buddha, others, Donald Sterling.



Donald Sterling employed many black people and made them millionaires. Seems like a great person on the surface. If I had that many millions, I am not sure I would be doing so much for minorities.
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Report this Post05-20-2014 11:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by yellowstone:

Or are you saying that some research shouldn't be carried out because the findings might be inconvenient and/or misused by someone else?



If you can find an unedited statement of mine saying that, then yes. If not, then no. How about just having a discussion for once instead of concentrating on how you can twist the "debate?"

I explained my concerns. That's my opinion and nowhere did I say that was the purpose of the research. You are free to disagree but please stop trying to twist my words into what you imagined I said.
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Report this Post05-20-2014 11:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for newfSend a Private Message to newfEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by whadeduck:

Who is to define what is greed and what is providing a comfortable life for themselves and their families? Is a man greedy because he likes fishing and buys a boat? Is a man greedy because he has a wife and four children so he buys a five bedroom home? Or is he greedy simply because someone has determined that he has things that others want but don't have?



What does the good book say? It's usually so clear on these things.
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Report this Post05-20-2014 12:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Red88FFSend a Private Message to Red88FFEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by whadeduck:

Or is he greedy simply because someone has determined that he has things that others want but don't have?



Definition of rich, has more than me. It actually is all relative.

Greed, has more than me, won't share. Edit: also has more than I or "we" think he needs.

Envy is generally not a good or admirable trait and is practiced by weak people with weak minds. Frankly I think these people are just stupid and easily manipulated.

[This message has been edited by Red88FF (edited 05-20-2014).]

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Report this Post05-20-2014 12:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfSend a Private Message to newfEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've read that many studies indicate people who gain power and wealth in industry and politics have a higher rate of sociopathy.

I don't know why these particular results would be surprising.
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Report this Post05-20-2014 12:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Red88FFSend a Private Message to Red88FFEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by newf:

I've read that many studies indicate people who gain power and wealth in industry and politics have a higher rate of sociopathy.

I don't know why these particular results would be surprising.


So simply put, they think highly of themselves.

Most seam to miss that if you don't, nobody else will either and you won't ever be able to effectively compete.
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Report this Post05-20-2014 12:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
"People are just feeling there’s an imbalance in our culture,” he said."

Wonder why... most likley the brainwashing of the citizens with the goal of spreading the wealth.
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Report this Post05-20-2014 12:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfSend a Private Message to newfEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Red88FF:


So simply put, they think highly of themselves.

Most seam to miss that if you don't, nobody else will either and you won't ever be able to effectively compete.


I think it's way more complex than that.

also from the OP article.

 
quote
No matter what their social or economic standing was, participants primed to think there’s nothing wrong with being greedy were more willing to cheat.



“There is this mental frame of mind when you feel like you are at the top,” Keltner said. “You think you are above the law, you think you can get away with stuff and you won’t have to deal with the consequences. That’s what that study demonstrates."

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Report this Post05-20-2014 12:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfSend a Private Message to newfEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

newf

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quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

"People are just feeling there’s an imbalance in our culture,” he said."

Wonder why... most likley the brainwashing of the citizens with the goal of spreading the wealth.


Yes, many of the 1% are effective brainwashers.
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yellowstone
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Report this Post05-20-2014 12:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for yellowstoneSend a Private Message to yellowstoneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:


If you can find an unedited statement of mine saying that, then yes. If not, then no. How about just having a discussion for once instead of concentrating on how you can twist the "debate?"

I explained my concerns. That's my opinion and nowhere did I say that was the purpose of the research. You are free to disagree but please stop trying to twist my words into what you imagined I said.


It was a question (indicated by the question mark) that I asked you based on what I think I understood from what you said. So?
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Formula88
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Report this Post05-20-2014 12:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by yellowstone:


It was a question (indicated by the question mark) that I asked you based on what I think I understood from what you said. So?


I offered an opinion. Your understanding isn't required. Others may be able to understand it within the context offered, and that's fine too.
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Red88FF
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Report this Post05-20-2014 12:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Red88FFSend a Private Message to Red88FFEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by newf:



Well, I don't buy it. And yes it is that simple.

I think the study was designed and implemented by a group with a predetermined objective in mind.
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yellowstone
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Report this Post05-20-2014 12:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for yellowstoneSend a Private Message to yellowstoneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Red88FF:

I think the study was designed and implemented by a group with a predetermined objective in mind.


Then let me quote someone on here in response: "Your understanding isn't required. Others may be able to understand it within the context offered."

So there.
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