1. having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain. synonyms: dishonest, unscrupulous, dishonorable, unprincipled, unethical, amoral, untrustworthy, venal, underhanded, double-dealing, fraudulent, bribable, criminal, illegal, unlawful, nefarious;
Well, the love of money is the root of evil.
Though
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 05-20-2014).]
Originally posted by Formula88: Close, but not quite.
Again, this is about materialism being fundamentally morally corrupting. Milton was asked if he ever had a moment of doubt due to the negative aspect of capitalism: materialism. His response is practically no, because it's the most fair materialistic system so far.
Typically greed is characterized, as you and other pointed out, someone who has more than you do. My point being, greed is the desire for material items. You're either wealthy in material or spiritually. You cannot mix the two, they're two entirely different value systems. Attempts to reconcile or rationalize greed by comparing your material items to someone else's is pointless and in vane.
It's not "have vs have not" it's "have vs no desire to have". If Jesus were alive today, where would he work? What kind of shoes would he wear? What kind of car would he drive? The answer is he wouldn't.
Our western society finds comfort and security in the material. That's why the entire society is arranged around acquiring these things. Yet you need none of it to be happy, beautiful, loved, whatever.
Not to deceive, like most Americans, I do have a job, a car, a cell phone, shoes, a house, property, even guns. But I cannot escape this little but growing voice that dares me to believe life is about more than working my whole life to buy things I don't need. It scares me to shed these things of security and comfort. They're infectious.
Back to the study at hand, it doesn't surprise me these psychologists believe the 'well-to-do have lost a little of their moral character'. I believe everyone who gets involved in materialism has lost a some of their moral character, the 'well-to-do', perhaps even a little more.
I totally agree... I think this study is absolutely ridiculous. Its intention is to do nothing more than foster class warfare. I agree 100% with Will Smith. You always hear the saying... "You never truly know someone until money is involved" and that is absolutely correct. A person's true personality comes out when there is some sort of disagreement with money. People get really weird, REALLY weird. So I echo the quoted comment from Will Smith.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I totally agree... I think this study is absolutely ridiculous. Its intention is to do nothing more than foster class warfare. I agree 100% with Will Smith. You always hear the saying... "You never truly know someone until money is involved" and that is absolutely correct. A person's true personality comes out when there is some sort of disagreement with money. People get really weird, REALLY weird. So I echo the quoted comment from Will Smith.
OK, so let's agree that money brings out the worst in people. So being wealthy would make someone who has some antisocial tendencies VERY antisocial. How does that contradict any of the findings in the study?
OK, so let's agree that money brings out the worst in people. So being wealthy would make someone who has some antisocial tendencies VERY antisocial. How does that contradict any of the findings in the study?
Or, the exact opposite, the people with the least wealth seam to act the worst. I think this is fairly evident, in fact indisputable, well to a reasonable person.
Oh, and I think it may be women that bring out the worst in men, oh ya, women too. Have to add that these days...... Jealousy is the driving force in both scenarios though.
[This message has been edited by Red88FF (edited 05-20-2014).]
Again, this is about materialism being fundamentally morally corrupting. Milton was asked if he ever had a moment of doubt due to the negative aspect of capitalism: materialism. His response is practically no, because it's the most fair materialistic system so far.
Capitalism isn't the same thing as materialism. You're welcome to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
Or, the exact opposite, the people with the least wealth seam to act the worst. I think this is fairly evident, in fact indisputable, well to a reasonable person.
Oh, and I think it may be women that bring out the worst in men, oh ya, women too. Have to add that these days...... Jealousy is the driving force in both scenarios though.
You been smoking some really good Sh!t, a lot better then I ever did, and I smoked some really good Sh!t!
How about people like,
Jeffrey Skilling, Bernie Ebbers, Andrew Fastow,
seems money does corrupt certain people.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 05-20-2014).]
Did money corrput them, or were they assholes to begin with? Nobody cares about a poor person who's a jerk. You might see a video of them doing something asinine on YouTube. But when it's someone wealthy, it's news. The scale of the money involved may be different, but that's to be expected given the difference in wealth but that doesn't mean it was the money that made them do it.
Did money corrput them, or were they assholes to begin with? Nobody cares about a poor person who's a jerk. You might see a video of them doing something asinine on YouTube. But when it's someone wealthy, it's news. The scale of the money involved may be different, but that's to be expected given the difference in wealth but that doesn't mean it was the money that made them do it.
A poor person doesn't get away with the amount of crap a rich person does, I am not talking about someone making a few hundred K a year, I am talking about people making a few million a year and even then they are not satisfied with that and will ruin peoples lives to get even more money. Seems the more they make, weather they were jerks before they made the money or not, they become bigger jerks.
Psychologists at the University of California, Berkeley, have conducted seven studies involving nearly a thousand participants from college students to senior citizens indicating that the rich are, indeed, different from the rest of us.
Where the "rich are different" idea came from:
quote
Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me. They possess and enjoy early, and it does something to them, makes them soft, where we are hard, cynical where we are trustful, in a way that, unless you were born rich, it is very difficult to understand. They think, deep in their hearts, that they are better than we are because we had to discover the compensations and refuges of life for ourselves. Even when they enter deep into our world or sink below us, they still think that they are better than we are. They are different.
F. Scott Fitzgerald "The Rich Boy" (1926)
[This message has been edited by spark1 (edited 05-23-2014).]
Some poor people display greed by coveting money that the rich have. some rich people display greed by coveting the money the poor have, that they could somehow take.
Greed causes one to think they can never have enough and it is exhibited by people at every position on the wealth spectrum.
Originally posted by newf:I've read that many studies indicate people who gain power and wealth in industry and politics have a higher rate of sociopathy.
I don't know why these particular results would be surprising.
I only find this valid if compared to the street person / long term homeless. That way we compare the 1% to the 1%. I hear sociopaths are often very intelligent. I am guessing I am not smart enough or rich enough to be a proper sociopath.
You been smoking some really good Sh!t, a lot better then I ever did, and I smoked some really good Sh!t!
How about people like,
Jeffrey Skilling, Bernie Ebbers, Andrew Fastow,
seems money does corrupt certain people.
Steve
Sorry I will leave the drug use up to you higher thinkers, thanks. I bet those evil rich guys hang out with engineers too, plotting ingenious ways to steal everyone's rightful fair share.
I've read that many studies indicate people who gain power and wealth in industry and politics have a higher rate of sociopathy.
I don't know why these particular results would be surprising.
No links, no references, just an uninformed opinion, no surprise.
quote
Originally posted by FlyinFieros:
My point being, greed is the desire for material items.
Pretty broad statement. So you are greedy when you work to put a roof over the head of your children, and feed and clothe them?
quote
You're either wealthy in material or spiritually. You cannot mix the two, they're two entirely different value systems.
Your value systems are rather poor, then.
quote
If Jesus were alive today, where would he work? What kind of shoes would he wear? What kind of car would he drive? The answer is he wouldn't.
Ah, yes, Jesus the non-materialist. Got an autographed copy of his book, do you? Then please show us where He said, " Thou shalt not be rich and own anything to be fit for the kingdom. " Job Abraham Isaac Jacob David Solomon All of them were rich, according to the Book. Nowhere in it is a negative comment about their wealth. From that evidence, a person can be wealthy materially and be spiritually rich.
How many of us actually know any rich people enough to comment their character?
The smell of stupid, envy, and hate is strong this morning. I thought for minute it was the early 60s again and I was downwind of the paper mill in Cantonment.
Ah, yes, Jesus the non-materialist. Got an autographed copy of his book, do you? Then please show us where He said, " Thou shalt not be rich and own anything to be fit for the kingdom. " Job Abraham Isaac Jacob David Solomon All of them were rich, according to the Book. Nowhere in it is a negative comment about their wealth. From that evidence, a person can be wealthy materially and be spiritually rich.
Whenever the old testament says something really despicable (and it does so a lot) it's always dismissed by "ah, but Jesus changed all that with his sacrifice".
OK, so let's do that here, too, and let Jesus speak:
And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." - Matthew 19:23 and 19:24
How much clearer could he have possibly been?
[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 05-21-2014).]
Ah, yes, Jesus the non-materialist. Got an autographed copy of his book, do you? Then please show us where He said, " Thou shalt not be rich and own anything to be fit for the kingdom. " Job Abraham Isaac Jacob David Solomon All of them were rich, according to the Book. Nowhere in it is a negative comment about their wealth. From that evidence, a person can be wealthy materially and be spiritually rich.
How many of us actually know any rich people enough to comment their character?
The smell of stupid, envy, and hate is strong this morning. I thought for minute it was the early 60s again and I was downwind of the paper mill in Cantonment.
Haha I knew it would be in the good book somewhere, if you look hard enough one can seem to justify anything.
Just a thought though, you listed rich people in the Bible however isn't Jesus the son of God? Therefore wouldn't his words and own way of living be most like that in which God would want us to live?
Also I'll try and find some of the studies or articles that referenced the studies regarding higher rates of sociopaths.
Jesus, the non-materialist? Jesus the ascetic. wandering the streets, clad only in tatters, like a homeless man?
?
Prosperity theology (sometimes referred to as the prosperity gospel, the health and wealth gospel, or the gospel of success)[A] is a Christian religious doctrine that financial blessing is the will of God for Christians, and that faith, positive speech, and donations to Christian ministries will always increase one's material wealth. Based on non-traditional interpretations of the Bible, often with emphasis on the Book of Malachi, the doctrine views the Bible as a contract between God and humans: if humans have faith in God, he will deliver his promises of security and prosperity. Confessing these promises to be true is perceived as an act of faith, which God will honor. It was during the Healing Revivals of the 1950s that prosperity theology first came to prominence in the United States . . .
How many of us actually know any rich people enough to comment their character?
What you are surprised, We have several millionaires who live right here in Farmington and more in the lakes regions around here as well as the bigger union busting brothers, the Cianchette Brothers who own Cianbro. I have, when I was capable of working worked for a lot of them. Some good, some bad, the Cianchette Brothers were the worst, they were born with a silver spoon in their mouths and walked on water. a little history from their own website so take it with a grain of salt the size of my Burb.
"Cianbro has also been nationally recognized as the Healthiest and Safest Company in America by the American College of Occupation & Environmental Medicine."
I know better, I have met them all at company picnics and other events and know how they got that award if you want to call it that, one of the brothers even ran for public office and lost thank Christ. They have this company and pay workers just above min wage for workers with years of experience, certifications, educations and because this is Maine they get away with being one of the lowest paying places to work if you are not a brother.
then there are the other wealthy people I have worked for, some good, most bad, most, when I say wealthy I mean people who make at least 1 million a year or better. They own summer homes on lakes up here that make the White House look small in comparison. I don't have a problem with that, what I have a problem with is how they will screw contractors over to get work done for as little as they can, while that in itself is not really wrong, anyone who has ever hired a contractor knows they can be thieves themselves. But I have seen with my own eyes how they will ask for something and agree to pay for it in a written contract and when it comes time to sign the checks will hem and haw about how it wasn't done to their satisfaction, when I know the work was done exactly as contracted and passed all codes, but they will drag out paying for something so long some of the contractors will actually go bankrupt because of it.
Then there are the ones that aren't like that, ya there are some like that, they pay their bills when they are due, are more than satisfied with the work and happy to even pay out a bonus that was not even called for to the workers themselves. They are around but from what I have seen they are in the minority and usually worked their way to get that money, they earned it themselves, didn't inherit it from mommy and daddy.
OK, so let's agree that money brings out the worst in people. So being wealthy would make someone who has some antisocial tendencies VERY antisocial. How does that contradict any of the findings in the study?
You have a very different perspective than mine. The article is suggesting that people who are wealthy are evil... being wealthy does not make someone evil, nor does being evil make someone wealthy (which you and the article seem to agree on). Money can bring out the worst in people, but those people had less than desireable personalities BEFORE they had money... money just makes it come out of them.
Article successful! Class-warfare is very present here in this forum.
It is absolutely stupid to say that wealthy people are evil... anyone here that thinks that is a dumb-ass... plain and simple. They give the overwhelming vast majority of the charity, they pay for the opportunity for OTHERS to give charity, they provide loans, they provide the tax base that pays for much of our infrastructure, they pretty much pay for everything. They also provide all of the jobs, and provide the means for the government to provide jobs.
Seriously, you guys are complete ****ing idiots if you think the wealthy are evil.
Article successful! Class-warfare is very present here in this forum.
It is absolutely stupid to say that wealthy people are evil... anyone here that thinks that is a dumb-ass... plain and simple. They give the overwhelming vast majority of the charity, they pay for the opportunity for OTHERS to give charity, they provide loans, they provide the tax base that pays for much of our infrastructure, they pretty much pay for everything. They also provide all of the jobs, and provide the means for the government to provide jobs.
Seriously, you guys are complete ****ing idiots if you think the wealthy are evil.
I don't think everyone has said or thinks that, I know I don't, as I said, some are, some aren't. it kind of depends on them and how they were brought up. Those born with a silver spoon in their mouths seem to be more susceptible to being evil as you called it.
but I think it all comes down to those who feel entitled by birth to anything and everything they want no mater what the cost to someone else. As far as they contribute the most to charity, they have more to give and it also makes their taxes less when doing so, now doesn't it. they have more available to give because they have so much more disposable income than the average 9 to 5er who is just getting by to begin with now don't they. how can you compare the 2, well you can't, if someone is just getting by they just don't have the extra to give and certainly can't afford to pay others to do work for them, now can they.
Edit to add a few more names to the list of evil rich fat cats,
Sam Walton's kids who more than fit my description of those born with the silver spoon description, Sam is rolling over in his grave seeing what his kids have done to his stores. they have done just the opposite of what Sam did, they have helped destroy his philosophy he started his stores with, buy American, when he ran it there were more products Made in USA than any others and at a reasonable price. today you can't even find one without searching the entire store.
Steve
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 05-21-2014).]
The reason I posted the article, regardless of what yellowstone may think he knows, is that the study draws a connection between wealth and a lack of ethics. Yes the word "evil" was my term but it certainly fits with the narrative of the greedy, uncaring, fat cat 1%-ers that the administration and media push.
I'm not making a blanket judgement of people. I find it concerning because this is essentially "scientific justification" for class warfare. Anything else you read into it is your own imagination.
The reason I posted the article, regardless of what yellowstone may think he knows, is that the study draws a connection between wealth and a lack of ethics. Yes the word "evil" was my term but it certainly fits with the narrative of the greedy, uncaring, fat cat 1%-ers that the administration and media push.
I'm not making a blanket judgement of people. I find it concerning because this is essentially "scientific justification" for class warfare. Anything else you read into it is your own imagination.
Confusing. It was a legitimate study wasn't it?
Which slant should we go by yours or the articles? I think I'd rather decide for myself thanks, I'm sure some will follow though!
[This message has been edited by newf (edited 05-21-2014).]
Jealousy is the driving force in both scenarios though.
