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God vs. Atheism: Which is more logical by avengador1
Started on: 04-07-2014 09:44 AM
Replies: 49 (634 views)
Last post by: Neils88 on 04-09-2014 08:28 PM
avengador1
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Report this Post04-07-2014 09:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DanDamageClick Here to Email DanDamageSend a Private Message to DanDamageEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


[This message has been edited by DanDamage (edited 04-07-2014).]

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Report this Post04-07-2014 10:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WichitaClick Here to Email WichitaSend a Private Message to WichitaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Lots of "ifs" that he always mentions. He doesn't explain really much, other than he mentions there must be a "big banger".

His argument that "something can't come from nothing." So the universe was created by god. I would ask the question, then where did god come from? The god existed from nothing, so explain to me why you say the universe can't exist from nothing, but god can?

And if one wants to believe that a god created the universe and the big bang, that's fine. It just starts getting really silly when people start believing that Jesus is god, or Mohammed or Buddha or who ever and creating this whole dogma under that religion to determine true believers versus the posers.

Agnosticism is one thing. Religion is another. He didn't mention the religious gods, so I give him props for that.
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Report this Post04-07-2014 11:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgClick Here to Email BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Or could it be that a simple message got twisted (by purpose or mistake); God is in every man.
It is nothing more than encouragement to strive above our darkness and be the light we are capable of.

It's a good message.
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Report this Post04-07-2014 11:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PyrthianClick Here to Email PyrthianSend a Private Message to PyrthianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
anyone who thinks they know - is just proving that they dont.
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Report this Post04-07-2014 12:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by DanDamage:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gx1Pv02w3Q


What if God was ALL of us?

Great song, by the way.
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Report this Post04-07-2014 12:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WichitaClick Here to Email WichitaSend a Private Message to WichitaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg:

Or could it be that a simple message got twisted (by purpose or mistake); God is in every man.
It is nothing more than encouragement to strive above our darkness and be the light we are capable of.

It's a good message.


I often wonder that myself. Since we tend to posses the powers of god. Such as the creating life and the ability to love and hate.

Maybe bad example.

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Report this Post04-07-2014 12:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ray bClick Here to Email ray bSend a Private Message to ray bEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
why is your god hiding from us

what is he afraid of

if he has a plan for man just show up and tell us
or at least send an angel to tell us what is up

so far all we have is nuts crying in the wilderness that god told them something
i DO NOT BELIEVE IN MEN TELLING US ABOUT GOD
if god wants to tell something to us let him do it directly
no jim jones or david K types please

even your JC told his followers doNOT SAY i AM THE SON OF GOD

------------------
Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

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Report this Post04-07-2014 12:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for avengador1Click Here to Email avengador1Send a Private Message to avengador1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
"why is your god hiding from us"

He may be hiding from you. I see his works everyday. He has given us brains and left us to decide our own fate. He will aid us as needed if asked.
Jesus said, "I and the Father are One." This is what caused the Pharisees to want to put him to death. He is the son of God by immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary.

" The god existed from nothing, so explain to me why you say the universe can't exist from nothing, but god can? "

Because God transcends all of our Universe's laws of physics, time and existence. Our Universe does not.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 04-07-2014).]

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Report this Post04-07-2014 01:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WichitaClick Here to Email WichitaSend a Private Message to WichitaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by avengador1:

"why is your god hiding from us"

He may be hiding from you. I see his works everyday. He has given us brains and left us to decide our own fate. He will aid us as needed if asked.
Jesus said, "I and the Father are One." This is what caused the Pharisees to want to put him to death. He is the son of God by immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary.

" The god existed from nothing, so explain to me why you say the universe can't exist from nothing, but god can? "

Because God transcends all of our Universe's laws of physics, time and existence. Our Universe does not.



Oh, that explains it. Why didn't I think of that before. That is why he can impregnate a virgin. Although I do wish I could know the story of Jesus between day 2 and 33 years old. I guess god decided he didn't have much worth until he grew a beard and was baptized. But god transcends physics as you know. So maybe Jesus was never a kid, but lived in a cocoon till he was a middle age man.
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Report this Post04-07-2014 01:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ray bClick Here to Email ray bSend a Private Message to ray bEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by avengador1:

"why is your god hiding from us"

He may be hiding from you. I see his works everyday. He has given us brains and left us to decide our own fate. He will aid us as needed if asked.
Jesus said, "I and the Father are One." This is what caused the Pharisees to want to put him to death. He is the son of God by immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary.

" The god existed from nothing, so explain to me why you say the universe can't exist from nothing, but god can? "

Because God transcends all of our Universe's laws of physics, time and existence. Our Universe does not.



I was not asking about the delusions of the godboys
but of the physical presents of a god or at minimum a real representative like a angel
not some deluded men babbling about their delusions
we do have a long history of men claiming to know god's will
but that seldom gave good results and far too often very bad results

[This message has been edited by ray b (edited 04-07-2014).]

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Report this Post04-07-2014 02:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ray b:

why is your god hiding from us

what is he afraid of


Maybe he'd come over if you sent and invitation and weren't an ******* ?
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Report this Post04-07-2014 02:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Wichita:


Oh, that explains it. Why didn't I think of that before.


It's not hard to imagine an existence beyond our own.
Look at a scientist growing a culture in a petri dish. To the bacteria, the dish is the entire universe. No life within the dish existed before the dish. What is beyond is unknown.
Yet, there you are in your soiled lab coat juggling racks of petri dishes - each with slightly different bacteria that will grow at different rates.

Maybe the big bang was really some scientist cooking up some reagents over a bunson burner and we're all the microbes grown within...

How far does an amoeba need to evolve to comprehend the scientific method used in the lab it was grown in?
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Report this Post04-07-2014 03:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TKSend a Private Message to TKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Wichita:


Oh, that explains it. Why didn't I think of that before. That is why he can impregnate a virgin. Although I do wish I could know the story of Jesus between day 2 and 33 years old. I guess god decided he didn't have much worth until he grew a beard and was baptized. But god transcends physics as you know. So maybe Jesus was never a kid, but lived in a cocoon till he was a middle age man.


He was still in Paul's imagination?
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Report this Post04-07-2014 04:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ray b:

JC told his followers doNOT SAY i AM THE SON OF GOD



What verse are you referring to?
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Report this Post04-07-2014 04:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WichitaClick Here to Email WichitaSend a Private Message to WichitaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:


It's not hard to imagine an existence beyond our own.
Look at a scientist growing a culture in a petri dish. To the bacteria, the dish is the entire universe. No life within the dish existed before the dish. What is beyond is unknown.
Yet, there you are in your soiled lab coat juggling racks of petri dishes - each with slightly different bacteria that will grow at different rates.

Maybe the big bang was really some scientist cooking up some reagents over a bunson burner and we're all the microbes grown within...

How far does an amoeba need toy evolve to comprehend the scientific method used in the lab it was grown in?


I don't think it is hard to imagine. People have imagined many things from Zeus to Superman. As far as amoebas are concerned, did you know that there is more amoeba type organisms in your body that make up more of you then you are of yourself. You exist as a sack of amoeba cultures. You wouldn't be born or alive without them.

[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 04-07-2014).]

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Report this Post04-07-2014 04:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FriendGregoryClick Here to Email FriendGregorySend a Private Message to FriendGregoryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Warning, if I am God, beware my powers, I performed many acts that were of only my desire for them to happen. I have the power to see danger pending, disaster beyond my vision. It is all me!...?...!

[This message has been edited by FriendGregory (edited 04-07-2014).]

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Report this Post04-07-2014 05:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ray bClick Here to Email ray bSend a Private Message to ray bEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


What verse are you referring to?


your book not my book
I have read it but
I did not memorize it

but I think all three synoptic's have statements to that effect
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Report this Post04-07-2014 05:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ray b:

statements to that effect


There is an inherent danger in hearing things or picking and choosing things, or believing remembered pieces of things and leaving out context.

Why did Jesus tell some to keep it quiet?

1.
Possibly because it wasn't time yet. The Jewish religion conservatives of His time would have killed Him and his deciplies on the spot for heresy. There were laws against heresey.

Also after healing a leper:
Mark 1:43-45: “Jesus sent him away at once with a strong warning: “See that you don’t tell this to anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded for your cleansing, as a testimony to them.” Instead he went out and began to talk freely, spreading the news. As a result, Jesus could no longer enter a town openly but stayed outside in lonely places. Yet the people still came to him from everywhere.”

Many people, demons, and Satan called Jesus the Son of God, but when He said "I am" before Ciaphas, it was considered blasphemy and got Him crucified.

Later:
Mark 14:61-62
" Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?"

"I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."



2.
Also this verse gives insight:
"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven." (Matthew 16:15-17)


Couple more spots, there are others:
Jesus told the Jews, "I and the Father are one." (Jn 10:24-38)
Jesus forgave sins, which only God had the authority to do (Mk 2:5-11, Lk 5:20-24)
Jesus said that he had seen Abraham and that he is eternal: "'I tell you the truth,' Jesus answered, 'before Abraham was born, I am!'" (Jn 8:57-58)
Jesus said that he had seen God, which no one else could do (Jn 6:46)Jesus told the Samaritan woman that he is the Messiah (Jn 4:25-26)
Jesus affirmed Peter's statement that he is the Messiah and Son of God (Mt 16:15-17, see also Mk 8:29-30, Lk 9:20-21)
Jesus told the high priest that he is the Messiah and Son of God (Mk 14:61-62, Mt 26:63-64, Lk 22:70)

More:
http://delveintojesus.com/a...-the-Son-of-God.aspx
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Report this Post04-07-2014 05:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ray bClick Here to Email ray bSend a Private Message to ray bEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Messiah christ son of man all have meaning not related to being the son of god in the virgin birth +ghost father way

and who knows what the original story was as written before the revisions got added
btw ever wonder why jews telling the tale about their tribal god's son wrote in greek not hebrew ?
or did not record the story until many years after the time it is said to have happen

and btw why does the lord of the universe have to be the same jewish god plus the jesusboys spin added on
or the whole dead/live guy born of a virgin by a ghost/dad and killed for a woman's sin long ago with a snake bit

how about a creator who never has or will communicate with us because he can not, will not, or just remains totally indifferent to us
just started the whole universe with out our interests in any part of his plan or program ?
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Report this Post04-07-2014 06:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WichitaClick Here to Email WichitaSend a Private Message to WichitaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Jesus, a Jewish Rabbi, was charged with inciting and misleading people. He was ultimately killed by claiming he was the "King of the Jews". He was not charged or convicted of claiming to be the Son of God, because in the old Jewish Laws saying that wasn't against Jewish religious laws, because everyone said that about themselves.

But claiming to be the King of the Jews was against the law. Not king of the world or king of all the people, but King of the Jews.

Got questions? Ask me.
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Report this Post04-07-2014 07:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is "God" logical? Maybe. Maybe not.
It why it's called faith. I choose to have it.

And I don't care what anybody else believes or doesn't believe. It's not my job to change them.

Have at it. Have fun.
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Report this Post04-07-2014 07:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WichitaClick Here to Email WichitaSend a Private Message to WichitaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

Is "God" logical? Maybe. Maybe not.
It why it's called faith. I choose to have it.

And I don't care what anybody else believes or doesn't believe. It's not my job to change them.

Have at it. Have fun.


I guess you can say I have faith as well. It's this unshakable faith that Jesus is not god. There is just too much evidence that points to that conclusion. So I have total faith that I'm right about it.

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Report this Post04-07-2014 08:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Patrick's DadClick Here to visit Patrick's Dad's HomePageClick Here to Email Patrick's DadSend a Private Message to Patrick's DadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ray b:

Messiah christ son of man all have meaning not related to being the son of god in the virgin birth +ghost father way


Messiah - Hebrew word, means "Anointed One."

Christ - derived from Greek word that means "Anointed One."

Son of Man - from Daniel 7:13 - 14: "And with the clouds of the sky one like a son of man was approaching. He went up to the Ancient of Days and was escorted before him. To him was given ruling authority, honor, and sovereignty. All peoples, nations, and language groups were serving him. His authority is eternal and will not pass away. His kingdom will not be destroyed." Bold mine. Describes Messiah, of which the Jewish people would immediately get the reference.

Virgin birth, presented in Isaiah 7:14: "For this reason the sovereign master himself will give you a confirming sign. Look, this young woman is about to conceive and will give birth to a son. You, young woman, will name him Immanuel." Immanuel (Emmanuel in some editions) means "God with us."

Sounds all the same to me.

 
quote
and who knows what the original story was as written before the revisions got added


Can you be less specific? What revisions, by whom, when, and what evidence?

 
quote
btw ever wonder why jews telling the tale about their tribal god's son wrote in greek not hebrew ?


So, you would write of miracles and great teaching in a formal language with a limited audience (that of those who would supress that Message)? Or would you use the common language of the people, so that all might know?

 
quote
or did not record the story until many years after the time it is said to have happen


Evidence? That's a trick question, there really is none. The fact is that we have partial manuscript dated within thirty years of Jesus' death, which is remarkable, because papyrus doesn't preserve so well. In fact, we have a better record of what we know as the New Testament than we do of Plato's works, and even much more contemporary work, such as Shakespeare, The uniformity of the information is also remarkable, meaning that it was important to the writers that the real story be given to as many as possible, without embellishment or redaction. The NT has withstood centuries of critical examination from within and without, far greater than any other work, and its veracity has been confirmed over and over.

 
quote
and btw why does the lord of the universe have to be the same jewish god plus the jesusboys spin added on
or the whole dead/live guy born of a virgin by a ghost/dad and killed for a woman's sin long ago with a snake bit


Because those details (and others) fulfilled prophesy.

 
quote
how about a creator who never has or will communicate with us because he can not, will not, or just remains totally indifferent to us
just started the whole universe with out our interests in any part of his plan or program ?


That's the Deist god, one doesn't love each of us and who wouldn't have sent His Son to die for our sin, etc.

EDIT: Code

[This message has been edited by Patrick's Dad (edited 04-07-2014).]

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Report this Post04-07-2014 08:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DanDamageClick Here to Email DanDamageSend a Private Message to DanDamageEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
my God has went beyond proving that he exists to me. Got me out of so many jams, literally saved my life twice, warned me ahead of times through dreams of future events. My prayers have been answered in my darkest moments almost immediately.

But people forget to pray when things are good too, you just cant pray when things are bad. Thats abusing the Lord.

DanDamage got Religious ... must be aliens
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Report this Post04-07-2014 08:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Patrick's DadClick Here to visit Patrick's Dad's HomePageClick Here to Email Patrick's DadSend a Private Message to Patrick's DadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Wichita:

Jesus, a Jewish Rabbi, was charged with inciting and misleading people. He was ultimately killed by claiming he was the "King of the Jews". He was not charged or convicted of claiming to be the Son of God, because in the old Jewish Laws saying that wasn't against Jewish religious laws, because everyone said that about themselves.

But claiming to be the King of the Jews was against the law. Not king of the world or king of all the people, but King of the Jews.

Got questions? Ask me.


Got questions? Read a firsthand account.

John 18:33 - 38: "So Pilate went back into the governor’s residence, summoned Jesus, and asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?” Jesus replied, “Are you saying this on your own initiative, or have others told you about me?” Pilate answered, “I am not a Jew, am I? Your own people and your chief priests handed you over to me. What have you done?” "Jesus replied, “My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my servants would be fighting to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish authorities. But as it is, my kingdom is not from here.” Then Pilate said, “So you are a king!” Jesus replied, “You say that I am a king. For this reason I was born, and for this reason I came into the world – to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to my voice.” Pilate asked, “What is truth?”

Mark 15:6 - 15: "During the feast it was customary to release one prisoner to the people, whomever they requested. A man named Barabbas was imprisoned with rebels who had committed murder during an insurrection. Then the crowd came up and began to ask Pilate to release a prisoner for them, as was his custom. So Pilate asked them, “Do you want me to release the king of the Jews for you?” (For he knew that the chief priests had handed him over because of envy.) But the chief priests stirred up the crowd to have him release Barabbas instead. So Pilate spoke to them again, “Then what do you want me to do with the one you call king of the Jews?” They shouted back, “Crucify him!” Pilate asked them, “Why? What has he done wrong?” But they shouted more insistently, “Crucify him!” Because he wanted to satisfy the crowd, Pilate released Barabbas for them. Then, after he had Jesus flogged, he handed him over to be crucified."

Barabbas, a murderer and insurrectionist, was imprisoned for his crimes. Jesus was crucified "Because he wanted to satisfy the crowd." In other words, he was afraid of the outcry if he didn't. Jesus, by His own testimony before Pilate, was not warranted for punishment, but Pilate was keenly aware of what his political future would be if there was a rebellion of those he governed. As it was, this happened seventy years later, but Pilate was not governor then.
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Report this Post04-07-2014 09:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you want to believe that "God" exists, then you can conclude that "God" is either all powerful, or not.
If "God" is not all powerful, then he is not worthy of being worshipped.
If "God" is all powerful, then he had it within his power to stop suffering and atrocities. He didn't. Therefore, that fact alone makes him not worthy of being worshipped.
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Report this Post04-07-2014 09:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Patrick's DadClick Here to visit Patrick's Dad's HomePageClick Here to Email Patrick's DadSend a Private Message to Patrick's DadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Neils88:

If you want to believe that "God" exists, then you can conclude that "God" is either all powerful, or not.
If "God" is not all powerful, then he is not worthy of being worshipped.
If "God" is all powerful, then he had it within his power to stop suffering and atrocities. He didn't. Therefore, that fact alone makes him not worthy of being worshipped.


https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white

Among others. You fault God for suffering in the world, when He is not the instigator. We are made with the ability to decide whether we will do good or do evil. If God directly interferes, then does He not also interfere in our freedom to choose our own destiny? Or, at the very least, to learn from our errors and the provision for us to change?

There are those who would also ask, what evil would there be in the world if God, either directly or indirectly, through His people, did not step in to prevent evil?

And who defines atrocities? I define abortion as an atrocity, committed against the weakest of us all, a child who has not developed to the point to take her first breath, completely dependent on her mother to nurture her until she is ready to appear in to the world, instead, burned in saline, dismembered by a suction device, - graphic descrition follows - Click to show all in the name of choice. Over 50 million children have died this way (legally) in the USA alone. NARAL thinks that this is a beautiful expression of the empowerment of women. Would that God would stop it all, but I recognize that it is in the nature of Man to want to create a subservient class and either subjugate or kill it. Genocide is, unfortunately, the norm. It is, therefore, up to us to change the culture and stop it ourselves.
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quote
Originally posted by Patrick's Dad:

You fault God for suffering in the world, when He is not the instigator. We are made with the ability to decide whether we will do good or do evil. If God directly interferes, then does He not also interfere in our freedom to choose our own destiny? Or, at the very least, to learn from our errors and the provision for us to change?
.....

Genocide is, unfortunately, the norm. It is, therefore, up to us to change the culture and stop it ourselves.


If he exists, then he would have the power to protect the innocent. If he exists, then he has chosen not to interfere and allow the suffering of the innocent. This fact makes him unworthy and not someone (something) I would want in my life.
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Report this Post04-07-2014 10:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ray bClick Here to Email ray bSend a Private Message to ray bEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick's Dad:


quote
and who knows what the original story was as written before the revisions got added


Can you be less specific? What revisions, by whom, when, and what evidence?


quote
btw ever wonder why jews telling the tale about their tribal god's son wrote in greek not hebrew ?


So, you would write of miracles and great teaching in a formal language with a limited audience (that of those who would supress that Message)? Or would you use the common language of the people, so that all might know?


quote
or did not record the story until many years after the time it is said to have happen


Evidence? That's a trick question, there really is none. The fact is that we have partial manuscript dated within thirty years of Jesus' death, which is remarkable, because papyrus doesn't preserve so well. In fact, we have a better record of what we know as the New Testament than we do of Plato's works, and even much more contemporary work, such as Shakespeare, The uniformity of the information is also remarkable, meaning that it was important to the writers that the real story be given to as many as possible, without embellishment or redaction. The NT has withstood centuries of critical examination from within and without, far greater than any other work, and its veracity has been confirmed over and over.


quote
and btw why does the lord of the universe have to be the same jewish god plus the jesusboys spin added on
or the whole dead/live guy born of a virgin by a ghost/dad and killed for a woman's sin long ago with a snake bit


Because those details (and others) fulfilled prophesy.


quote
how about a creator who never has or will communicate with us because he can not, will not, or just remains totally indifferent to us
just started the whole universe with out our interests in any part of his plan or program ?


That's the Deist god, one doesn't love each of us and who wouldn't have sent His Son to die for our sin, etc.
That's the Deist god, one doesn't love each of us and who wouldn't have sent His Son to die for our sin, etc.

EDIT: Code



first bit you know there are long and short versions of several new T books
so somebody did ad to or edit them

several of saul/pauls letters are NOT by the same author


o it gets worse the quote are mostly from the greek version of the old T not the hebrew originals
see anything funny about that ?

no there are no none not even a bit of any original new T book anywhere near that early a date
most are over 200 years after the undated events of JC's life time
the only stuff found was the dead sea scrolls old T ONLY near that 30 years after date

Deist god was washington jefferson and Franklin's belife good company
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Report this Post04-07-2014 10:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgClick Here to Email BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My God finds me incredibly funny!
And that goes a long way with him.

I am truly blessed!
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quote
Originally posted by Boondawg:

My God finds me incredibly funny!
And that goes a long way with him.

I am truly blessed!


He's not the only one, Boonie....
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Report this Post04-08-2014 09:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ray b:

btw ever wonder why jews telling the tale about their tribal god's son wrote in greek not hebrew ?

and btw why does the lord of the universe have to be the same jewish god plus the jesusboys spin added on
or the whole dead/live guy born of a virgin by a ghost/dad and killed for a woman's sin long ago with a snake bit

how about a creator who never has or will communicate with us because he can not, will not, or just remains totally indifferent to us
just started the whole universe with out our interests in any part of his plan or program ?


You said the book isnt your book, make it your book.

-Original bible languages:
http://www.biblegateway.com...nguage-of-the-bible/

-Why Creator and then Jesus too:
The 10 Commandments, no one keeps them sucessfully. Agree?
John 6:38: “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.”
Luke 19:10: “to seek and to save that which was lost.”
John 3:16-17: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.” John continues in v.19 “And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.”
John 10:10: “I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.”
Matthew 20:28 “just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

-How does God communicate:
I would say there was and is communication. Jesus, the Bible, everything around us.
Though it cannot be seen with closed eyes and ears or while running away.
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Report this Post04-08-2014 10:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Neils88:


If he exists, then he would have the power to protect the innocent. If he exists, then he has chosen not to interfere and allow the suffering of the innocent. This fact makes him unworthy and not someone (something) I would want in my life.



Answer: The Bible describes God as holy (Isaiah 6:3), righteous (Psalm 7:11), just (Deuteronomy 32:4), and sovereign (Daniel 4:17-25). These attributes tell us the following about God:

(1) God is capable of preventing evil, and
(2) God desires to rid the universe of evil.

So, if both of these are true, why does God allow evil? If God has the power to prevent evil and desires to prevent evil, why does He still allow evil? Perhaps a practical way to look at this question would be to consider some alternative ways people might have God run the world:

1) God could change everyone’s personality so that they cannot sin. This would also mean that we would not have a free will. We would not be able to choose right or wrong because we would be “programmed” to only do right. Had God chosen to do this, there would be no meaningful relationships between Him and His creation.

Instead, God made Adam and Eve innocent but with the ability to choose good or evil. Because of this, they could respond to His love and trust Him or choose to disobey. They chose to disobey. Because we live in a real world where we can choose our actions but not their consequences, their sin affected those who came after them (us). Similarly, our decisions to sin have an impact on us and those around us and those who will come after us.

2) God could compensate for people’s evil actions through supernatural intervention 100 percent of the time. God would stop a drunk driver from causing an automobile accident. God would stop a lazy construction worker from doing a substandard job on a house that would later cause grief to the homeowners. God would stop a father who is addicted to drugs or alcohol from doing any harm to his wife, children, or extended family. God would stop gunmen from robbing convenience stores. God would stop high school bullies from tormenting the brainy kids. God would stop thieves from shoplifting. And, yes, God would stop terrorists from flying airplanes into buildings.

While this solution sounds attractive, it would lose its attractiveness as soon as God’s intervention infringed on something we wanted to do. We want God to prevent horribly evil actions, but we are willing to let “lesser-evil” actions slide—not realizing that those “lesser-evil” actions are what usually lead to the “greater-evil” actions. Should God only stop actual sexual affairs, or should He also block our access to pornography or end any inappropriate, but not yet sexual, relationships? Should God stop “true” thieves, or should He also stop us from cheating on our taxes? Should God only stop murder, or should He also stop the “lesser-evil” actions done to people that lead them to commit murder? Should God only stop acts of terrorism, or should He also stop the indoctrination that transformed a person into a terrorist?

3) Another choice would be for God to judge and remove those who choose to commit evil acts. The problem with this possibility is that there would be no one left, for God would have to remove us all. We all sin and commit evil acts (Romans 3:23; Ecclesiastes 7:20; 1 John 1:8). While some people are more evil than others, where would God draw the line? Ultimately, all evil causes harm to others.

Instead of these options, God has chosen to create a “real” world in which real choices have real consequences. In this real world of ours, our actions affect others. Because of Adam’s choice to sin, the world now lives under the curse, and we are all born with a sin nature (Romans 5:12). There will one day come a time when God will judge the sin in this world and make all things new, but He is purposely “delaying” in order to allow more time for people to repent so that He will not need to condemn them (2 Peter 3:9). Until then, He IS concerned about evil. When He created the Old Testament laws, the goal was to discourage and punish evil. He judges nations and rulers who disregard justice and pursue evil. Likewise, in the New Testament, God states that it is the government’s responsibility to provide justice in order to protect the innocent from evil (Romans 13). He also promises severe consequences for those who commit evil acts, especially against the "innocent" (Mark 9:36-42).

In summary, we live in a real world where our good and evil actions have direct consequences and indirect consequences upon us and those around us. God’s desire is that for all of our sakes we would obey Him that it might be well with us (Deuteronomy 5:29). Instead, what happens is that we choose our own way, and then we blame God for not doing anything about it. Such is the heart of sinful man. But Jesus came to change men’s hearts through the power of the Holy Spirit, and He does this for those who will turn from evil and call on Him to save them from their sin and its consequences (2 Corinthians 5:17). God does prevent and restrain some acts of evil. This world would be MUCH WORSE were not God restraining evil. At the same time, God has given us the ability to choose good and evil, and when we choose evil, He allows us, and those around us, to suffer the consequences of evil. Rather than blaming God and questioning God on why He does not prevent all evil, we should be about the business of proclaiming the cure for evil and its consequences—Jesus Christ!

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org...l.html#ixzz2yIrOh7q0

There are answers to your questions. Is the problem you dont want those answers?

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 04-08-2014).]

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Report this Post04-08-2014 10:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ray b:

your book not my book
I have read it but
I did not memorize it



I dont have it memorized either.
I have it on paper, and there are many many resources online. the cool ting is if you type a sentence you think you rememeber from a verse in a regular internet search window, it wont take long to find the actual verse. You can get it on an e-reader for free too.

http://www.biblegateway.com...h=John+1&version=NIV
http://biblehub.com/john/1-1.htm
http://www.biblestudytools.com/john/1.html
http://www.esvbible.org/John+1/
http://carm.org/kjv/John/john_1.htm
http://www.blueletterbible....?b=Jhn&c=1&v=1&t=KJV
https://net.bible.org/#!bible/John+1
http://www.kingjamesbibleon...rg/1-John-Chapter-1/
...
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Report this Post04-08-2014 11:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ray bClick Here to Email ray bSend a Private Message to ray bEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


You said the book isnt your book, make it your book.


-How does God communicate:
I would say there was and is communication. Jesus, the Bible, everything around us.
Though it cannot be seen with closed eyes and ears or while running away.


no thanks
I see far too many bad effects of in the history of fairytales
and absolutely no hand of god in the real church history
and if your god never has shown evidence of of his leadership in the past 2000 years
why do you think he will or can in the future ?

I think a closed mind is a necessary for cult belief
acceptance of impossible facts is required to join a cult
and why are there so many cults
if there is one god
why are there so very very very many religions
each with lots of sub-cults
take the baptists
how many different sub-cults are there just claiming be the one true baptist belief ?


the world is not 6000 years old
and trees with fruit were not created before the stars were
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Report this Post04-08-2014 11:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ray bClick Here to Email ray bSend a Private Message to ray bEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

ray b

10759 posts
Member since Jan 2001
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


I dont have it memorized either.
I have it on paper, and there are many many resources online. the cool ting is if you type a sentence you think you rememeber from a verse in a regular internet search window, it wont take long to find the actual verse. You can get it on an e-reader for free too.


...


I like this one
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm
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Report this Post04-08-2014 11:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Everyone of every religion has their own god working inside them. He helps you to do things you think are right and warns you of doing wrongs. You end up being judged by what your own mind suggests. I think thats why they say 'god is everywhere'. I dont consider myself atheist in any way, but I dont believe that some giant guy just one day decided to make a universe either.
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Report this Post04-08-2014 12:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ray b:

if there is one god
why are there so many religions



http://www.gotquestions.org...rch.x=45&search.y=26
:
560 pages of results.
1. Why are there so many Christian denominations?
2. Why are there so many religions? Do all religions lead to God?
3. The Truth about Religion
4. Why are there so many televangelist scandals?
5. Questions about Cults & Religions
6. Why are there so many religions?
7. With all of the different religions, how can I know which one is correct?
8. Why can't religions coexist peacefully?
9. I am a Jehovah's Witness. Why should I consider becoming a Christian?
10. Why should I believe in God?

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