Every month that Gregory Zbylut pays $1,300 toward his law school loans is another month of not qualifying for a decent mortgage.
Every payment toward their student loans is $900 Dr. Nida Degesys and her husband aren't putting in their retirement savings account.
They believe they'll eventually climb from debt and begin using their earnings to build assets rather than fill holes. But, like the roughly 37 million others in the U.S. saddled with $1 trillion in student debt, they may never catch up with wealthy peers who began life after college free from the burden.
The disparity, experts say, is contributing to the widening of the gap between rich and everyone else in the country. "If you graduate with a B.A. or doctorate and you get the same job at the same place, you make the same amount of money," said William Elliott III, director of the Assets and Education Initiative at the University of Kansas. "But that money will actually mean less to you in the sense of accumulating assets in the long term."
Graduates who can immediately begin building equity in housing or stocks and bonds get more time to see their investments grow, while indebted graduates spend years paying principal and interest on loans. The standard student loan repayment schedule is 10 years but can be much longer.
The median 2009 net worth for a household without outstanding student debt was $117,700, nearly three times the $42,800 worth in a household with outstanding student debt, according to a report co-written by Elliott last November.
But WTF it seams college is costing more than its worth, with the cost of repayment for student loans it will be years if not decades before many of those kids who got all those student loans to pay for that higher education. the rich have no problem, they pay cash for their kids education and just one more example of how our system is broke,
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
But WTF it seams college is costing more than its worth, with the cost of repayment for student loans it will be years if not decades before many of those kids who got all those student loans to pay for that higher education.
Sometimes it is. Not always, but sometimes. It also does not help that kids are lied to by schools ( at least when i went to school i was flat out lied too.. ) and you get in over your head quickly and not even realize it. Then add to it that the 'system' is builtto keep you on the government roles ( as a payer ) forever....
The real value of college just depends on if the job market honors the value of a degree. Its sometimes apples and oranges too, business degree, technical skill degree, arts degree...then you have different people too. Cant really make too many blanket statements.
I really wish I hadnt gone to college, I really didnt come out knowing more than I would have otherwise. Would have saved me alot of money. They taught me some software programs, but I really could have learned them myself too.
But theh the place I work now wanted that checkbox "do you have a college degree" checked. Regardless of if it was in teh field of the job. It showed motivation.
Many places only care about your attitude / temperment, and will teach you anything once they know they like that. Alot of jobs pay for schooling, or a portion of it after you are hired too.
The real value of college just depends on if the job market honors the value of a degree. Its sometimes apples and oranges too, business degree, technical skill degree, arts degree...then you have different people too. Cant really make too many blanket statements.
I really wish I hadnt gone to college, I really didnt come out knowing more than I would have otherwise. Would have saved me alot of money. They taught me some software programs, but I really could have learned them myself too.
But theh the place I work now wanted that checkbox "do you have a college degree" checked. Regardless of if it was in teh field of the job. It showed motivation.
Many places only care about your attitude / temperment, and will teach you anything once they know they like that. Alot of jobs pay for schooling, or a portion of it after you are hired too.
I dont regret the actual act of going to college, i would just have done it differently if i had known the future outcome. It did open doors that would have not been realistically available otherwise, and i did learn stuff.
I really wish I hadnt gone to college, I really didnt come out knowing more than I would have otherwise. Would have saved me alot of money. They taught me some software programs, but I really could have learned them myself too.
But theh the place I work now wanted that checkbox "do you have a college degree" checked. Regardless of if it was in teh field of the job. It showed motivation.....
I am in the same boat... For what little bit I went, it was a complete waste of time and money as far as I see.
And how many places do you think actually check to see if the person that checked that box actually went to the school that they claimed to have gone to?
I am in the same boat... For what little bit I went, it was a complete waste of time and money as far as I see.
And how many places do you think actually check to see if the person that checked that box actually went to the school that they claimed to have gone to?
I don't regret getting a post-secondary education(Technical school, not college or university), I just wish I had done it earlier, and gotten all of the education I could have while there.
This kinda hits it on the head pretty nicely:
"If we are lending money that ostensibly we don't have to kids who have no hope of making it back in order to train them for jobs that clearly don't exist, I might suggest that we've gone around the bend a little bit." -Mike Rowe
A friend of mine has his Masters in English and is still paying off his student loan while working at PetSmart stocking shelves and tutoring HS and undergrad college students on their English homework.
I saw a set of figures not long ago regarding unpaid and "in-default" student college loans. By far, the majority of those who are in arrears are those who attended college on the loan programs, but dropped out and didn't get the degree. Almost 90% of those in default or arrears if I remember correctly, are former students that didn't finish to get a degree.
I hear of lots of people who enroll in the loan program and just use the $$ as income for a couple of years instead of using it to do what it was intended for. They learned to play the system, and this is where the problem started.
I hear of lots of people who enroll in the loan program and just use the $$ as income for a couple of years instead of using it to do what it was intended for. They learned to play the system, and this is where the problem started.
Which was helped along by the colleges. They pushed such an agenda to kids, most of which didn't know any better. ( no, i wasnt in that boat, but i saw them telling other students to use their money for 'stuff', as 'there is more where that came from "
Couldn't agree more with Nurb, exact same boat here. Everything worked out great, but would definitely do things different if I had to do it again (loan-wise). A lot of my friends are in similar positions as I am, but they transferred to much lower cost colleges. This article is accurate in how it is a direct impact on new graduates ability to acquire weath, buy a home, build a retirement for the future.
I hear of lots of people who enroll in the loan program and just use the $$ as income for a couple of years instead of using it to do what it was intended for. They learned to play the system, and this is where the problem started.
Typical, we (the U.S.) dont police or enforce our current systems. I dont understand why we let the abuse of almost everything ruin almost everything. I guess there must be money changing hands somewhere, there always is.
But WTF it seams college is costing more than its worth, with the cost of repayment for student loans it will be years if not decades before many of those kids who got all those student loans to pay for that higher education. the rich have no problem, they pay cash for their kids education and just one more example of how our system is broke,
Very likely to be the case more recently--I know colleges were pushing them pretty hard a few years ago when my daughter decided to go to college.
I blame politicians as well. I may be out in left field here but IIRC, when these college loan programs first began, the monies were just for tuition, books, and a few other qualifying expenses--maybe dorm fees etc--and the kid's living expenses were on the student (or their parents). Soon, people began to complain that it wasn't going far enough because the "poorer" kids had to work to support themselves while in school, and the "richer" kids did not. The word 'disenfranchised" came up in the debates in congress. Eventually the programs were expanded to include more and more, with a stipend for living expenses. That's when things went sideways.
Soon enough, people who had no intention whatsoever in pursuing even an associates degree began applying for the loans, going to college part time and spending the living expense in ways it wasn't intended for. Person A would tell Person B. "I don't need a job, I go to school part time, sit around enjoying life the rest of the time and the government pays everything". Person B then goes down and applies even tho they have no intention of finishing school--they were just looking for an easy berth in life. The whole thing became a collegiate welfare system all to itself.
There have been a couple of threads in OT about it over the years and it has come up in several non-college loan threads.
Couldn't agree more with Nurb, exact same boat here. Everything worked out great, but would definitely do things different if I had to do it again (loan-wise). A lot of my friends are in similar positions as I am, but they transferred to much lower cost colleges. This article is accurate in how it is a direct impact on new graduates ability to acquire weath, buy a home, build a retirement for the future.
Aside from the financial foolery they pulled, I also pretty much wasted 3 years, as i was promised that the credits would transfer to another college. They of course did not, and i didn't get it in writing or id have sued them. ( plan was a tech college for 3 years, get a decent job, transfer credits and then complete a real degree in the evenings ). I did end up with a job, but had to start over again as far as credits. ( ya, i tested out of everything that had that option, but that isn't the point )
I would have started out with a community college instead. Cheaper and 'real' credits. Same plan, but no tech oriented school.
[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 03-27-2014).]
Originally posted by maryjane: Soon enough, people who had no intention whatsoever in pursuing even an associates degree began applying for the loans, going to college part time and spending the living expense in ways it wasn't intended for.
And intending to file chapter 13 on them later.... Tho that was removed while i was in school. Not my intent, but the rules changed, screwing the people who really did get in a legitimate bind and couldn't get out. Now you have a permanent albatross over your head.. and the feds controlling it..
Here are the top 10 colleges, according to Payscale’s data (this is for students who lived on campus):
College Return on Investment — Class of 2013
SCHOOL DEGREE COST 20-YEAR ROI 1. Harvey Mudd College $116,800 $1.1M 2. MIT $80,710 $973,800 3. Caltech $89,460 $968,500 4. Stanford University $74,870 $950,800 5. Stevens Institute of Technology $134,800 $838,500 6. Babson College $104,700 $838,100 7. Princeton University $78,590 $829,600 8. NYU-Polytechnic Institute $124,300 $824,000 9. Dartmouth College $77,050 $822,600 10. Harvard University $53,910 $821,900
Here are the top 10 public schools, based on in-state tuition:
Public College Return on Investment — Class of 2013
SCHOOL DEGREE COST 20-YEAR ROI 1. Colorado School of Mines $77,350 $820,200 2. Georgia Institute of Technology $37,350 $810,500 3. Massachusetts Maritime Academy $65,150 $733,500 4. University of California, Berkeley $64,210 $724,100 5. Missouri University of Science and Technology $61,950 $697,200 6. South Dakota School of Mines and Technology $71,750 $683,000 7. New Jersey Institute of Technology $77,310 $648,900 8. California Polytechnic State University $73,170 $642,100 9. University of California, San Diego $52,350 $619,500 10. University of Virginia $25,880 $619,100
States could raise appropriations, as here in MI they have dropped down to something like 25% (or less). So... tuition goes up. The State used to invest in students, but because of "budget" issues, they dropped that amount. Of course, it seems taxes never went down and services never increased.... hmmm... so where did that money go....
A simple graph...
[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 03-27-2014).]
If you didn't do a simple ROI case before going to your college for that specific degree, your fault.
And how many average 18 year old kids do that? When they are presented with 'fact sheet' from the chosen college you believe them. Its not until later in life that you become cynical and figure out that everyone is out to screw you.
College graduates ages 25 to 32 working full time earn $45,500, about $17,500 more than their peers with just a high school diploma, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of census data.
An extra $17,500 a year on average should make paying back those loans a piece of cake. They're complaining about the debt they incurred to get the degree, but they're getting the benefit of the higher earnings. Just like any other loan - you asked for and took the money.
You want equality - don't take a loan. Get a damn job and go to school part time, then graduate without debt. Taking a loan and not wanting to pay it back is not an "inequality" problem. It's a grow the F*** up problem.
If you didn't do a simple ROI case before going to your college for that specific degree, your fault.
I don't think most 16-17 year old kids making their plans have been taught to do this. Many of them probably even have parents who couldn't advise them to make a clear choice based ROI (or any other value proposition metric)
I'm the first to graduate; neither of my parents holds even a 4 year degree. Neither of my parents has any education in financial planning. Both of my parents exhausted their attention and financial resources trying to ruin each other through divorce during my school years.
My parents certainly didn't look at the ROI with me; like most others graduating around '00, I was simply told by my parents and HS counselors, "Yes it's expensive, but you need to go to college, there's no other way- just do it no matter what" I read Suze Orman's money book for teens, and it said school debt is... "good debt, and yes it seems big and scary but investing in yourself is the best investment you can make"
Now I have a good job (toeing 6 figures) but big debt (also toeing 6 figures)
I followed the advice of my parents, college admissions staff, and professional counselors- as a 17 year old kid, that was all I knew to do, and I suppose by your judgment, that makes me a fu(king idiot.
That's like asking someone if they paid their mortgage off 1 year after they bought their home. He's only been out of school for a year.
I pay all my depts. off way ahead of time and I am no college graduate, hell I never graduated high school but I know enough to pay my depts. as soon as possible. all my home loans have been paid off in 1/3 the time I took them out for, and I am no college graduate.
Pay your depts. first, no toys, no nothing until you have no depts..
[ Public College Return on Investment — Class of 2013
SCHOOL DEGREE COST 20-YEAR ROI 1. Colorado School of Mines $77,350 $820,200 2. Georgia Institute of Technology $37,350 $810,500 3. Massachusetts Maritime Academy $65,150 $733,500 4. University of California, Berkeley $64,210 $724,100 5. Missouri University of Science and Technology $61,950 $697,200 6. South Dakota School of Mines and Technology $71,750 $683,000 7. New Jersey Institute of Technology $77,310 $648,900 8. California Polytechnic State University $73,170 $642,100 9. University of California, San Diego $52,350 $619,500 10. University of Virginia $25,880 $619,100 [/CODE]
My son tried to get into GA Tech, but ended up at Southern PolyTech (GA Tech lite)instead. The cool thing about being a GA resident is the HOPE scholarship which used to pay 100% of tuition and fees (it's now 80-90% mainly due to rising costs). The only requirement was to maintain a "B" average in high school and then through college. I'm not sure what the current requirements are. As for taking out student loans, with the help of the HOPE scholarship, we put both of our children through 9 years of undergraduate study without borrowing a dollar. Sometimes, you have to adjust your priorities, but it can be done.
An extra $17,500 a year on average should make paying back those loans a piece of cake. They're complaining about the debt they incurred to get the degree, but they're getting the benefit of the higher earnings. Just like any other loan - you asked for and took the money.
You want equality - don't take a loan. Get a damn job and go to school part time, then graduate without debt. Taking a loan and not wanting to pay it back is not an "inequality" problem. It's a grow the F*** up problem.
no 15 year notes was the longest I ever took out on a home, 1 year on the 2 new car loans I took out a very long time ago. and after looking at what I wrote I said that wrong, I have paid off every home I owned 1/3 ahead of time. so on a 15 year note I paid them off in 10 years or less.
One, no 2 I even paid cash for after selling my previous homes.
Steve
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 03-27-2014).]
I think the article is a bunch of puff. I mean really, of course somebody that did not take out massive student loans and has no big student loan payments is going to build their assets faster, really. Who would have thunk it. (sarcasm)Must be unfair or maybe even racist (/sarcasm).
Hey, they bought something, an education. No guarantees of success, certainly not risk free.
Saying "they did not understand" is a poor excuse and no different than people that got house loans through the dem's program and failed or the others that signed on for balloon payments or those evil adjustable rate mortgages. Adjustable rate mortgages were designed for wealthy people NOT average Joe.
And how many average 18 year old kids do that? When they are presented with 'fact sheet' from the chosen college you believe them. Its not until later in life that you become cynical and figure out that everyone is out to screw you.
That's not really the question though, is it?
It doesn't matter how many do it. It's a matter of whose fault it is. That is the student's fault. Period. I agree that it's unrealistic to expect all kids to do that, but I sure as hell did and everyone should.
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:
Finish paying yours off yet?
Steve
Nope. Gradudated in May with $39k student loan debt.
It's at $19k now.
In case you were counting, that's shorter than the third of the time that it takes you.
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:
I don't think most 16-17 year old kids making their plans have been taught to do this. Many of them probably even have parents who couldn't advise them to make a clear choice based ROI (or any other value proposition metric)
I'm the first to graduate; neither of my parents holds even a 4 year degree. Neither of my parents has any education in financial planning. Both of my parents exhausted their attention and financial resources trying to ruin each other through divorce during my school years.
My parents certainly didn't look at the ROI with me; like most others graduating around '00, I was simply told by my parents and HS counselors, "Yes it's expensive, but you need to go to college, there's no other way- just do it no matter what" I read Suze Orman's money book for teens, and it said school debt is... "good debt, and yes it seems big and scary but investing in yourself is the best investment you can make"
Now I have a good job (toeing 6 figures) but big debt (also toeing 6 figures)
I followed the advice of my parents, college admissions staff, and professional counselors- as a 17 year old kid, that was all I knew to do, and I suppose by your judgment, that makes me a fu(king idiot.
I hope you feel smug having "gotten it right"
My parents didn't go to college either. I didn't come from a well-to-do background. I just knew that I slaved to make a few grand during high school, and you couldn't get me to spend far more than that on a college without knowing what I was getting into.
I didn't say you were an idiot. You did what most people did, and that's fine.
But if you aren't happy with the school or degree you went to, it is your fault. Accept that and move on. No reason to even be upset about it. It's a lesson.
------------
I know how I sound. I know I'm coming across as a smug ******* . But I am tired of hearing the woes of college students when it was easily the best thing I could have ever done. I just put more thought into borrowing a crap ton of money just for an education.
I've gone to college 3 times (Engineering, Aviation and Business) and have learned college is NOT about what you learn (you can learn that elsewhere). It is about networking and WHO you meet (and become friends with or get to like you). EVERY group/class has some "connected" people...it could be instructors, could be classmates, could be "job fairs" or events set up by the school---THOSE people are the ones holding the money and doing the hiring and no matter how smart or good at *whatever* you are, unless they "like" you, you aint going anywhere.
If you notice, the ones who "make it" rght out of college are, as a general rule, the ones who were in the "right" group and at the "right events" in the "right" places. The rest, (the introverts, the socially inept, those with interests outside the mainstream, the non-politically correct for the area ect) are generally the 60+% who end up flipping burgers with a masters degree swmply because they dont know the right people.
(notice I said general rule, there are some exceptions but not a lot)
<edit> .....and I dont play that game, at school OR at work. BELEIVE ME I had a VERY well-connected (as in a dozen companies and a billion under family control) female chasing me like crazy not that long ago, and although I did like her the entire lifestyle and values set and pure back-stabbing falseness of those kinds kinds of people churns my stomach. I am simply not interested in living like that and as a result the "relationship" never went anywhere, and we now hate each other to the point thhere WOULD be bloodshed in a face-to-face meeting.
[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 03-28-2014).]
NOT necisarrily......there is NO shortage of guys I know/ have worked with who thru layoff/ downsizing ect have ended up working jobs for 1/3rd or less of what they used to make yet still have the same loan payments, not uncomonly higher than thier new net income (is in--if they paid every penny they earned at the new job towards the student loan, it would STILL not be enough and be in default/ areers)
no 15 year notes was the longest I ever took out on a home, 1 year on the 2 new car loans I took out a very long time ago. and after looking at what I wrote I said that wrong, I have paid off every home I owned 1/3 ahead of time. so on a 15 year note I paid them off in 10 years or less.
One, no 2 I even paid cash for after selling my previous homes.
Steve
I pay down my debt, but I also borrow money so as I can earn more interest on the cash I have. For example, why pay $20K for a car, when you can get 2% financing and take that $20K and invest it (10% or higher return lately). Let your money work for you. Sure, it is nice to be out of debt, but in reality, you will make more money by investing your cash and paying someone else a lot less to use their cash.
My parents didn't go to college either. I didn't come from a well-to-do background. I just knew that I slaved to make a few grand during high school, and you couldn't get me to spend far more than that on a college without knowing what I was getting into.
I didn't say you were an idiot. You did what most people did, and that's fine.
But if you aren't happy with the school or degree you went to, it is your fault. Accept that and move on. No reason to even be upset about it. It's a lesson.
------------
I know how I sound. I know I'm coming across as a smug ******* . But I am tired of hearing the woes of college students when it was easily the best thing I could have ever done. I just put more thought into borrowing a crap ton of money just for an education.
It's not that I'm not happy with the school/degree. It's 100% that there's no goddamned excuse for the rate at which the cost to attend college is increasing. Your "accept it and move on" bit of wisdom is exactly what's exacerbating this bubble. It doesn't drive accountability, and it doesn't drive to the root of the problem, and your "well I made it through, **** the other guys" attitude sure as hell isn't fixing the systemic issues present in the US university system today.
