Originally posted by Boostdreamer: . . . Now, back to the discussion, great news, knowledge, power, etc. In your wildest dreams, what would be the next steps that could be built upon this "discovery"?
This announcement is based on data from one particular kind of ground-based telescope at the South Pole Observatory in Antarctica.
The very next step would be to try to confirm these same telltale traces of gravity waves in the Cosmic Microwave Background by using data from another instrument, such as the Planck Space Telescope.
Where could this eventually take us, as a species? Please focus all of your cognitive abilities on this simple pie chart:
This reflects what the universe is made of, according to some of the leading researchers in the fields of cosmology and astrophysics. It says that scientists today can only perform direct observations on about 4% of the universe. The other 96% of the universe is beyond any direct observation or measurement.
Dark matter, which has been calculated as about 22% of the universe, has not ever been directly observed. It is only an hypothesis, to explain what are thought to be unseen sources of gravitational force that are thought to be keeping galaxies from flying apart into structureless scatterings of individual stars. Because without this unseen gravity, no one has been able to explain how stars can revolve around the center of their galaxies at the high velocities that have been directly measured, without spinning all the way out of their resident galaxies into intergalactic space.
Dark energy, which is calculated as about 74% of the universe, is hypothesized as the answer to another question, which is what causes the directly observable expansion of the universe in all directions to be measured as constantly accelerating.
I think that if scientists could close in on a more exact explanation of what happened during the incredibly brief instant of time immediately after the Big Bang, when the dimensions of the universe "inflated", or expanded faster than the speed of light, that could be a step towards figuring out how humans could begin to manipulate and eventually harness the power of dark energy for practical purposes, such as providing the power source for every human need, and for zipping around almost instantaneously from one end of the universe to the other end, like space ninjas. It would make any of the schemes for power generation that are considered remotely feasible in any foreseeable future, such as hydrogen-powered fusion reactors, orbiting solar energy collectors and anti-matter fueled engines, seem like children's toys, in comparison.
That's as far as my thinking takes me.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 03-18-2014).]
After refreshing (WIKI) my understanding of the BBT, I see that the theory does not address the origin of the matter/energy, rather, it deals with the formation of the universe out of the existing matter/energy. Any more in depth knowledge from members that have kept up with astronomy/cosmology? I had three years as an undergrad back in the 70's, but changed career paths and haven't kept up.
OK, there was no matter.... Where did the energy come from, or was it already there?
unknown. maybe it was always there, and this is a endless cycle of bang-expand-collapse-bang. maybe it was the "spark of god". maybe it actually isnt real, and the "big bang" was just the initialization of a massive VR program.
there will always be the next unknown. that is how science works.
Originally posted by Boostdreamer: Thank you for this reponse. Other than possibly this remark, it was very informative, civil, and on topic.
My "cognitive abilities" remark was not meant to be any kind of put down. And it wasn't aimed at anyone in particular. It just seemed an aptly wry phrase as I was typing. I fancy myself "a fellow of infinite jest". The reality? YMMV.
In the past it was 'science fact' and eventually shown wrong by scientific study and then changed .. ( which is what i think the question was .. )
I was not bringing religious nonsense into it, they can make fools of themselves and dont need help.
The myth that I am referring to is the one that you are propagating.
From the link I provided:
quote
The myth of the Flat Earth is the modern misconception that the prevailing cosmological view during the Middle Ages saw the Earth as flat, instead of spherical.[1]
During the early Middle Ages, virtually all scholars maintained the spherical viewpoint first expressed by the Ancient Greeks. From at least the 14th century, belief in a flat Earth among the educated was almost nonexistent, despite fanciful depictions in art, such as the exterior of Hieronymus Bosch's famous triptych The Garden of Earthly Delights, in which a disc-shaped Earth is shown floating inside a transparent sphere.[2]
According to Stephen Jay Gould, "there never was a period of 'flat earth darkness' among scholars (regardless of how the public at large may have conceptualized our planet both then and now). Greek knowledge of sphericity never faded, and all major medieval scholars accepted the Earth's roundness as an established fact of cosmology."[3] Historians of science David Lindberg and Ronald Numbers point out that "there was scarcely a Christian scholar of the Middle Ages who did not acknowledge [Earth's] sphericity and even know its approximate circumference".[4]
Oh, I was talking about the posts in this thread. I didn't know you "bangers" were still upset about stuff that happened 500 years ago. I formally apologize for my ancestors lack of understanding.
Oh, I was talking about the posts in this thread. I didn't know you "bangers" were still upset about stuff that happened 500 years ago. I formally apologize for my ancestors lack of understanding.
This is what you consider "great news"? How will it change your life?
This got me thinking.
When I was a Believer, I lived for Christ. Life felt full and I found happiness in seeking out more of God and spreading that news on Earth. Everything here was just a means to the real end which was Heaven and eternal happiness, so I never felt without purpose.
When I first accepted to myself that I had become an atheist, I struggled with the meaning of life. Virtually all of my thoughts were consumed with metaphysical and existential questions. I deduced that there was no meaning to life, that we really were just stacks of meat and bone, with electrical impulses running through more meat creating this concept of thought. And acknowledging that really kind of ****ing sucked! So I decided to just smile and start growing, living for me and for happiness because even if emotions are just an illusion, they are pleasant to me so I will experience them. But by simply smiling and paying attention to stuff that made me happy, I found more purpose for life. Purpose for humanity, really.
When we were evolving, survival was the top purpose of life and of "humanity" as it was back then. We continuously learned how to make that survival easier and easier as we went, eventually leading to us being at the top of the food chain. Then we left the food chain entirely as survival became more trivial. So what was our purpose? To simply exist? We started expanding knowledge and moving forward, pushing boundaries where we saw them. Finding individual purposes, but little purpose for humanity. Until we got to the past few centuries, when science started being explored and understood more. People started being able to communicate to each other over longer distances--education was shared.
We started exploring possibilities that weren't open to us before. New questions arose. New purposes arose. These boundaries weren't even evident a hundred years prior--now we're crossing them. We went into space. To the ****ing moon! That same moon that used to be a god to multiple civilizations. These new boundaries to cross are our new purpose as a species. Do you want to simply exist, or do you want some purpose in life? Not only is this discovery important--it's one of the very few things that have importance at all.
So it does change my life. Because humanity is still pushing forward. Humanity has a new purpose, and we aren't going to choose to simply exist. This keeps me going. Even if I won't ever be able to experience the true nature of this discovery and what it holds for us, I have happiness and envy for humanity in a thousand years, when we'll be crossing stars with ease and crossing even new boundaries. It's exciting.
Originally posted by olejoedad: I am curious how such an ordered universe emerged out of the chaos of a huge explosion/implosion.
According to some that I read recently, they think that "Big Bang", which comes across to us as some kind of explosion, is a misleading term. I think you could improve on that by calling it the "Big Phase Transition" or the "Big Crystallization". Such terms are actually meaningless. The only meaningful expression is using the symbology of mathematics. All the formulas and equations. Of which I wouldn't know even where to start.
When I was a Believer, I lived for Christ. Life felt full and I found happiness in seeking out more of God and spreading that news on Earth. Everything here was just a means to the real end which was Heaven and eternal happiness, so I never felt without purpose.
When I first accepted to myself that I had become an atheist, I struggled with the meaning of life. Virtually all of my thoughts were consumed with metaphysical and existential questions. I deduced that there was no meaning to life, that we really were just stacks of meat and bone, with electrical impulses running through more meat creating this concept of thought. And acknowledging that really kind of ****ing sucked! So I decided to just smile and start growing, living for me and for happiness because even if emotions are just an illusion, they are pleasant to me so I will experience them. But by simply smiling and paying attention to stuff that made me happy, I found more purpose for life. Purpose for humanity, really.
When we were evolving, survival was the top purpose of life and of "humanity" as it was back then. We continuously learned how to make that survival easier and easier as we went, eventually leading to us being at the top of the food chain. Then we left the food chain entirely as survival became more trivial. So what was our purpose? To simply exist? We started expanding knowledge and moving forward, pushing boundaries where we saw them. Finding individual purposes, but little purpose for humanity. Until we got to the past few centuries, when science started being explored and understood more. People started being able to communicate to each other over longer distances--education was shared.
We started exploring possibilities that weren't open to us before. New questions arose. New purposes arose. These boundaries weren't even evident a hundred years prior--now we're crossing them. We went into space. To the ****ing moon! That same moon that used to be a god to multiple civilizations. These new boundaries to cross are our new purpose as a species. Do you want to simply exist, or do you want some purpose in life? Not only is this discovery important--it's one of the very few things that have importance at all.
So it does change my life. Because humanity is still pushing forward. Humanity has a new purpose, and we aren't going to choose to simply exist. This keeps me going. Even if I won't ever be able to experience the true nature of this discovery and what it holds for us, I have happiness and envy for humanity in a thousand years, when we'll be crossing stars with ease and crossing even new boundaries. It's exciting.
I'm going to come back and reread your post again in the future. Your journey parallels my own in a lot of ways and you have given my thoughts a new slant. I haven't gone all the way to atheism just because I don't see a way to prove or disprove the existence of god. I do understand why people want to believe in a god and I understand the satisfaction that they get from this belief. People smarter than me believe in god and people smarter than me are atheists too. I am very, very doubtful that I will in my lifetime come to an answer that completely satisfies me. I am forced to put the question aside and just go on living the rest of my life in the best way I know.
I'm going to come back and reread your post again in the future. Your journey parallels my own in a lot of ways and you have given my thoughts a new slant. I haven't gone all the way to atheism just because I don't see a way to prove or disprove the existence of god. I do understand why people want to believe in a god and I understand the satisfaction that they get from this belief. People smarter than me believe in god and people smarter than me are atheists too. I am very, very doubtful that I will in my lifetime come to an answer that completely satisfies me. I am forced to put the question aside and just go on living the rest of my life in the best way I know.
Well said.
BDub... Very well said.
I have love for every member that joins our little afternoon chats. I do not look at one for their beliefs, but for their values. So rock on mother ****ers!!!
My "cognitive abilities" remark was not meant to be any kind of put down. And it wasn't aimed at anyone in particular. It just seemed an aptly wry phrase as I was typing. I fancy myself "a fellow of infinite jest". The reality? YMMV.
When I first accepted to myself that I had become an atheist, I struggled with the meaning of life. .. I deduced that there was no meaning to life, that we really were just stacks of meat and bone, with electrical impulses running through more meat creating this concept of thought. And acknowledging that really kind of ****ing sucked! So I decided to just smile and start growing, living for me and for happiness because even if emotions are just an illusion, they are pleasant to me so I will experience them. But by simply smiling and paying attention to stuff that made me happy, I found more purpose for life. Purpose for humanity, really. ...
So it does change my life. Because humanity is still pushing forward. Humanity has a new purpose, and we aren't going to choose to simply exist. This keeps me going.
I am curious how such an ordered universe emerged out of the chaos of a huge explosion/implosion.
Nothing in the laws of the universe, as we currently understand them, requires homogeneity or disallows the existence of "islands of complexity."
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:
... "Big Bang", which comes across to us as some kind of explosion, is a misleading term. I think you could improve on that by calling it the "Big Phase Transition" or the "Big Crystallization". Such terms are actually meaningless.
It's really hard to wrap your head around, but current understanding of the Big Bang is that it involved not only the initiation of mass and energy, but also of space and time itself.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 03-19-2014).]
My "cognitive abilities" remark was not meant to be any kind of put down. And it wasn't aimed at anyone in particular. It just seemed an aptly wry phrase as I was typing. I fancy myself "a fellow of infinite jest". The reality? YMMV.
Which is why I didn't jump to any conclusions and demand that you were attacking, spewing hate, being a racist, etc like happens with much too high frequency in OT.
I'm going to come back and reread your post again in the future. Your journey parallels my own in a lot of ways and you have given my thoughts a new slant. I haven't gone all the way to atheism just because I don't see a way to prove or disprove the existence of god. I do understand why people want to believe in a god and I understand the satisfaction that they get from this belief. People smarter than me believe in god and people smarter than me are atheists too. I am very, very doubtful that I will in my lifetime come to an answer that completely satisfies me. I am forced to put the question aside and just go on living the rest of my life in the best way I know.
I do not know unequivocally that a god does not exist. What I do know, is that I do not believe in one.
I won't tell anyone that God doesn't exist. But I'll maintain I don't believe in one.
Awesome!
