Hi All, I purchased this GT back in February of this year, I am told I am the third owner, I just broke 93k miles on it. I changed the oil last weekend and used Pennzoil 5w30 full synthetic, and this ticking started at that time. I used a Fram xtra guard filter. The oil level seems to be right just past the operating range on the dipstick. This sounds louder from below the car, not from the valve covers as I would expect if it was a sticking valve. Any recommendations? Should I switch to a heavier oil? Need any additives?
We have discussed several possible issues. I suggested that he steer away from any oil additive at this stage, but its his call.
I am thinking bad lifter(s), maybe worn wrist pins, maybe worn rod or crankshaft bearings.
As you can see and hear, he tried to feather the RPMs to see if he could get the ticking to subside - I call this "floating" a bearing as I once blew out a rod bearing and I was able to limp the car home by getting the RPMs just right to "float" the rod on the bad bearing (for minimal noise). It was a last ditch effort, if I left it by the roadside in Bridgeport Connecticut in the 1990s it would have been stripped.
Paul and I have been talking and he pointed me to notice that my oil pressure is showing high. Does that correlate with a stuck lifter? Should I run seafoam or other additive in the oil to help? Is it safe to drive if it doesn't get worse?
Definitely doesn't sound like a "bottom end" noise. I would agree that it sounds more like a stuck lifter, but it's also kind of "random".
Don't know what to say about the high oil pressure reading. If something is blocking the oil flow, it might cause the gauge to read high, and might cause the rest of the engine to be oil starved. I believe the oil sender is after the pump, but before all the rest of the oiling system. But I could easily be wrong. It's been a while since I paid attention to that.
As an aside, I haven't heard anything good about Fram filters, lately, although I don't know about the different "levels" they sell. I might suggest a Mobil1 or a Wix. Just a personal preference. (This is really a topic for another thread. It could potentially open a huge can of worms. Not my intention.)
I agree, Frame filters are not what they were in the 1980s. I use NAPA in my Fieros. I use Wix on my zeroturn mower. Wix are made in Mexico but their quality is very good.
The Oil Pressure sending units are not reliable. The resistive wiper inside wears quickly and shows false readings. When they get real bad, the gauge may peg high.
I agree, a failing lifter would sound more rhythmic at idle.
I am not in front of the engine but this ticking showed up after an oil change.
For a light ticking, I would drive it off, but Mike's ticking is loud.
Maybe an oil additive may help, but the oil would need to be changed immediately after the treatment. Your thoughts?
I had a bad main bearing many years ago (car overheated from a failed water pump, etc.). It resulted in lower oil pressure at the top... which resulted in a similar ticking noise that you're getting now from the valve train (of course, I had other sounds too).
It makes sense to me that if you're seeing really high oil pressure readings, that perhaps something is blocking your oil passage which is resulting in a high-oil pressure (before the blockage but after the pump) and thus starving the valve train like Raydar said.
Also to echo what he said, it definitely does not sound like a bottom-end sound. I've had that (as I mentioned earlier) and that's much deeper.
My advice would be to:
1 - Change the oil filter immediately (doesn't matter, something cheap) 2 - Use engine flush (Run 5-8 minutes): https://shop.advanceautopar...liquid-mf3/7120030-p 3 - Change the oil filter to a WIX or a Purolator, and change the oil to your oil of choice.
I'm thinking that should clear it up...
EDIT: My thinking is that maybe the oil hadn't been changed in a while, and there's a lot of gunk in there. A lifter shouldn't just fail like that, unless the previous oil was much heavier weight oil. How many miles does it have? If the problem still persists after doing a flush and oil change, I'd take the valve covers off and check the valve lash on the valves.
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 10-08-2025).]
Mike85k: I changed the oil last weekend and used Pennzoil 5w30 full synthetic, and this ticking started at that time. I used a Fram xtra guard filter. The oil level seems to be right just past the operating range on the dipstick. Any recommendations? Should I switch to a heavier oil? Need any additives? Paul and I have been talking and he pointed me to notice that my oil pressure is showing high. Does that correlate with a stuck lifter?
IMHO: I'm a conventional oil guy; use 10W-40 in my V6 and never use oil additives to avoid negative effects.
Before the oil change, no 'ticking'? Do you know 'what' oil/weight the previous owner used? Did you notice the oil pressure before and after the oil change? {Don't trust the dash sending unit; check it with an accurate gauge}
------------------ Original Owner of a Silver '88 GT Under 'Production Refurbishment' @ 136k Miles
I've never checked the pressure with anything but the dash gauge, it did used to settle to right around the midway mark (I think its 40?) but it has been staying much higher. Hard to say for sure as I havent really driven it, its just idles for us to take some recordings and try to diagnose the sound.
So previous owner responded, he says he ran 20w-50.
Not sure why he ran so heavy. Not sure what to do with that info, I guess I try heavier weight too? I would think that's harder on the lifters ?
20W-50 is ridiculous for this engine. I'm guessing he's compensating for something in the engine that might not be great. I would still flush the engine (as I mentioned). I'd drop it down to 10W-40 like VintageNut recommended. 50 weight is just way too heavy an oil.
For those that do not understand multi-viscosity oil ratings....
Breaking Down the Rating The First Number (Cold Viscosity): This number (e.g., '10' in 10W-30) denotes the oil's flow at low temperatures, indicated by the "W" for "winter". A lower number means the oil is thinner and flows more easily, allowing for quicker lubrication of engine parts during cold starts and reducing wear. The "W": Stands for "winter," signifying the oil's performance in cold weather conditions. The Second Number (Hot Viscosity): This number (e.g., '30' in 10W-30) indicates the oil's viscosity at a standard operating temperature of 100°C (212°F). Higher numbers mean the oil remains thicker when hot, which is crucial for maintaining a strong lubricating film and protecting engine components from wear, especially in hot conditions. How It Works (and Why It Matters) Multi-grade oils contain viscosity-improving additives that allow the oil to perform like a thin, low-viscosity oil when cold and a thicker, higher-viscosity oil when hot. Cold Start: The additives don't expand much, so the oil behaves as a thinner, lower-number grade (e.g., 5W), allowing it to flow quickly and lubricate the engine. Hot Operation: As the engine heats up, the additives expand, increasing the oil's viscosity to the higher number (e.g., 30), which is necessary for proper hot-engine lubrication and sealing.
In the "old days", we used to run a mixture of engine oil and automatic transmission fluid (might've been 50/50) to unstick a stuck lifter. The high detergent content of the ATF is why it was used. I'm not suggesting that this method be used now, but running some sort of modern engine flush might do the trick.
Originally posted by Patrick: In the "old days", we used to run a mixture of engine oil and automatic transmission fluid (might've been 50/50) to unstick a stuck lifter. The high detergent content of the ATF is why it was used. I'm not suggesting that this method be used now, but running some sort of modern engine flush might do the trick.
Yeah, I remember someone back in the day telling me to do that. I'd always add like half a quart of ATF to any new (used) car I'd buy, and then change the oil a few weeks later.
For those that do not understand multi-viscosity oil ratings....
Breaking Down the Rating The First Number (Cold Viscosity): This number (e.g., '10' in 10W-30) denotes the oil's flow at low temperatures, indicated by the "W" for "winter". A lower number means the oil is thinner and flows more easily, allowing for quicker lubrication of engine parts during cold starts and reducing wear. The "W": Stands for "winter," signifying the oil's performance in cold weather conditions. The Second Number (Hot Viscosity): This number (e.g., '30' in 10W-30) indicates the oil's viscosity at a standard operating temperature of 100°C (212°F). Higher numbers mean the oil remains thicker when hot, which is crucial for maintaining a strong lubricating film and protecting engine components from wear, especially in hot conditions. How It Works (and Why It Matters) Multi-grade oils contain viscosity-improving additives that allow the oil to perform like a thin, low-viscosity oil when cold and a thicker, higher-viscosity oil when hot. Cold Start: The additives don't expand much, so the oil behaves as a thinner, lower-number grade (e.g., 5W), allowing it to flow quickly and lubricate the engine. Hot Operation: As the engine heats up, the additives expand, increasing the oil's viscosity to the higher number (e.g., 30), which is necessary for proper hot-engine lubrication and sealing.
This is a good visual as to the benefits of multi-viscosity oils - they provide more linear viscosity over a wide range of temperatures.
So I bought the engine cleaner recommended above, new filters (a cheap one and a wix) and some heavier oil. I'm traveling this weekend so won't be able to tackle this for a bit. But as I read more about stuck lifters the symptoms all fit. I do hear a slight misfire, low end torque seems low, expect for one thing. When this started I tried using a mechanics stethoscope against the valve covers to see if I could hear it, and I dont her the ticking louder on the valve cover. I think I should? To be fair I've never used one before this, but I assume I just press the metal end against the valve cover over each cylinder and listen. I have light ticking, but not like the load tick you can hear in the video.
Update Changed the Fram filter out for a basic filter from Advance, drained a little oil, replaced oil with engine cleaner/treatment suggested above. Ran it with the cleaner for about 6 minutes (instructions said no more than 5, I thought someone suggested 10) When I fired it up I noticed that it did not make the ticking when cold, it took about 2 minutes until it started. After ~6 minutes, I shut it down, removed the new filter and drained the oil. Replaced with new Wix filter and 10-W40 oil. Confirmed level looks good on dipstick.
Unfortunately ticking persisted through that. . . I recorded a new video, sounds pretty much the same. I didnt give it any throttle in the video, but the ticking does stop with just the slightest amount of throttle/RPM. Actually maybe thats why its not there when cold as its still idling high...
I would least drive the car around the block or two and see if the lifters will quiet down or not...
If not, the next step would be to remove the rocker arm covers and check the lash which is covered in section 6A2-14 of the Pontiac Fiero Service Manual
If the lash is 'good', then the only option left will be replacing all the lifters...
PS - IF you're a hands-on guy and like to turn wrenches; my suggestion is to purchase the factory manual of your year....
------------------ Original Owner of a Silver '88 GT Under 'Production Refurbishment' @ 136k Miles
[This message has been edited by Vintage-Nut (edited 10-14-2025).]
...the ticking does stop with just the slightest amount of throttle/RPM. Actually maybe thats why its not there when cold as its still idling high...
Not sure what to do next.
Just drive the car. If one lifter is gummed up a bit, perhaps it'll eventually free up after the engine flush, new oil etc.
If the ticking persists after a few hundred miles of driving, and you want to see if adjusting the valve lash gets rid of the tick, Here is the best way IMO to adjust valve lash on the Fiero's 2.8 engine.
reinhart: No one's asked the obvious: What was the condition of the old oil (before the tick) when drained?
The oil condition is nice to know, however it wasn't the issue.
Turns out that the previous owner ran 20W-50 and the new owner changed to Pennzoil 5W-30 full synthetic.
Now is the obvious question; 'why' did the previous owner used 20W-50....? ------------------ Original Owner of a Silver '88 GT Under 'Production Refurbishment' @ 136k Miles
[This message has been edited by Vintage-Nut (edited 10-17-2025).]
That actually sounds a bit deeper than I remember it sounding before... but a rod knock doesn't usually make a sound until higher RPMs (at least at first... and then as the bearing gets shot, it makes the sound at lower and lower rpms).
I'd echo what Vintage and Patrick said... I'd remove the valve covers and check the valve lash. None of the rocker arms should be loose.
It still hasn't left my garage since I did the second oil change, I just haven't had the opportunity to get it out. I'm going to try to this weekend. Next weekend I signed up for a Trunk or Treat event at my work that I committed to taking it to, as long as it drives ok this weekend I think I'll still do that. Its only about a 15 minute drive and I be easy on it. Then I guess I can call that end of the season for the car, park it in the garage and start tearing the top end down to get to the rockers and lifters. I had a new fuel pressure regulator and all new gaskets so I was planning on tearing out the intakes and valve covers anyway. While I'm in there depending on what we find maybe I'll splurge on the 1.6 roller rockers, new PR's, new lifters.
Mike85k: I had a new fuel pressure regulator and all new gaskets so I was planning on tearing out the intakes and valve covers anyway.
While I'm in there depending on what we find maybe I'll splurge on the 1.6 roller rockers, new PR's, new lifters.
BTW - Don't splurge on the 1.6 roller rockers IF you don't match {i.e. port} the intake manifold, gasket, intermediate intake manifold, gaskets AND the upper plenum manifold.
The 1.6 rocker power is found by getting better air flow...
[This message has been edited by Vintage-Nut (edited 10-17-2025).]
I had one bad experience with ticking after an oil change. Just as an experiment I tried 20 W 50 Synthetic oil and there was a resulting tick noise from the engine afterwards.. Drained the new oil out, put 5W30 back in again (It's a 3800) and the ticking noise went away. I can only guess it was the front oil pump mechanism that didn't like the heavier oil. As for the problem outlined in this thread ; I would take off the valve covers and wiggle the push rods to see if any excess play can be felt. Before doing this you might want to try probing with a mechanic's stethoscope. .
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Regarding any other changes. I did change the distributor that same weekend. I have gone through several ICM's since I bought the car, the coil on the distributor was looking rough and there was a little play in the shaft. I changed that out for a reman AC Delco unit, that all went fine. I have timing set to 12 degrees which is what it was set to pre change. I did try adjusting it to 10 to see if any difference but no change to this ticking sound. Yesterday I added 4 ounces of Seafoam to the oil and drove around a bit, the can ran good. That's only the second time I got to take it out since I changed the distributor and that definitely made a difference, if this ticking is impacting anything its hard to tell based on how its running. The ticking stops as soon as RPMs rise. Oil pressure still seems to be showing high to me, eventually got to the midway point on the gauge after it got to full operating temp. Its supposed to rain all week here so I most likely wont be driving it anymore until next weekend, after that I'll start tearing into the top end.
That sound has crankshaft frequency in it, meaning the sound happens too fast to be lifter ticking. If it was a lifter getting stuck it would have a sound at half the frequiency since the camshaft rotates half the speed of the crankshaft. Having a lot of experience with these family of engines I'm pretty sure you will need a short block rebuild to fix that problem and by extension get your heads serviced also. Also make sure you check the flywheel bolts, they make a similar noise as rod knock but more metallic.
Good observation Patrick! Since the lifters are not 180 degrees appart from each other, if two or four or six or seven get stuck they won't sound as fast as the cranshaft rod knock. At the video when the camera goes under the car the sound increases in amplitude, no lifter(s) sticking will get louder under the car it will be the opposite.
At 1000 RPM near idle speed each rotation must fire 3 cylinders and open /close 6 valves.that puts the valve speed at .166 second. . That might not be sufficient time to isolate the tick. The valve cover must be taken of and every push rod checked for looseness. At every 1/4 turn of the engine (off of course) you wiggle the push rod up and down. If there is movement there is your problem.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
At the video when the camera goes under the car the sound increases in amplitude, no lifter(s) sticking will get louder under the car it will be the opposite.
Rei, that's a good point... but distance between the camera/phone and engine will also make a difference in amplitude/volume of the tick coming from the engine, as will the sound of the tick reflecting back up from the concrete floor.
Of course, I don't know for sure, not at all... but I still think it sounds more like excessive valve lash (due to either a stuck lifter, bent pushrod, or backed off rocker ball nut) than it does a bottom end issue. I hope we eventually find out!
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-20-2025).]
Rei, that's a good point... but distance between the camera/phone and engine will also make a difference in amplitude/volume of the tick coming from the engine, as will the sound of the tick reflecting back up from the concrete floor.
Of course, I don't know for sure, not at all... but I still think it sounds more like excessive valve lash (due to either a stuck lifter, bent pushrod, or backed off rocker ball nut) than it does a bottom end issue. I hope we eventually find out!
Here is another wild guess. The previous owner used 20W50 oil. The current owner tried using 5W30 oil that is thinner. IMO the thinner oil provided less of a cushion on engine parts hence the ticking noise. As 20W50 oil is not recommended for the 2,8L Fiero engine, Valve train noise might be it, but until everything internally is checked we won't know for sure.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
A bit late to the party, but after listening to the 2nd video, it sounds a lot like a lifter, to me. Much less "random" than the first one.
However... try grabbing a few feet of garden hose, and use it like a stethoscope. Poke around the top and sides of the engine. I also wouldn't be surprised if it's a cracked exhaust manifold. That can sound very much like a lifter tap. At least it's cheap and easy. And if I'm wrong, you won't have wasted a bunch of time or money.
If you're going to tear into anything, if it were me, I'd start with the bottom first. The oil pan is easier to remove timewise than the entire top end to get to the valve train. If you pull the pan, you can check for play in the bearings. Also check for any debris in the pan. I had a lifter implode and it left all sorts of weird stuff in the oil pan. If I had started at the top and found the bad lifter, I would have likely bolted it back up and never pulled the pan and would have possibly destroyed the engine if any of those metal particles made it through the oil pickup or bounced out of the oil into the crank area during a fast turn. I had already changed the oil and the parts had not drained out because some were too large and others just sank to the bottom of the pan and never drained out with the oil.
