Do you plan on modifying it, or keep it original ?
tldr: original
That's a great question, Cliff. I've gone back and forth on that. At first, I imagined making cosmetic changes by swapping out the back end with a GT and maybe even swapping out the aero nose and underlying air dams with a bumper pad nose. I was given some advice on the ins and outs of trying a nose swap in a thread I started at one point last year - it's not exactly plug and play.
However, the more I've thought about it and the more I've looked at it, the stock configuration of aero front and notchback has grown on me. Plus, there's something to keeping it stock since the 87 SE was a relatively rare configuration.
And while the stroked and bored 3.4 I test drove was definitely a beast, I'm thinking that the 2.8 will be a nice compromise of power and mileage - plus, it's already in the engine bay with less than 90K miles. Plus, I'm not a great mechanic and I know from what I've read here in the forum that any engine swap is quite a job, many of which are started and never completed, sadly.
That's all a long-winded way to say that it's going to be enough for me to get it running, enjoy driving it, and do what I can to keep it well-maintained and cared for as long as I'm able. I don't see myself making it into a show car, nor building/ swapping drivetrain components. But who know what the future may hold? Maybe I can make it into a flying car like in the one Fast and Furious movie 🤣 🚀
Thanks for the well-wishes! Even with my limited plans, I'll need some luck 🤞🍀
Diz
[This message has been edited by dizzie (edited 06-13-2025).]
That's a great question, Cliff. I've gone back and forth on that. At first, I imagined making cosmetic changes by swapping out the back end with a GT and maybe even swapping out the aero nose and underlying air dams with a bumper pad nose. I was given some advice on the ins and outs of trying a nose swap in a thread I started at one point last year - it's not exactly plug and play.
However, the more I've thought about it and the more I've looked at it, the stock configuration of aero front and notchback has grown on me. Plus, there's something to keeping it stock since the 87 SE was a relatively rare configuration.
And while the stroked and bored 3.4 I test drove was definitely a beast, I'm thinking that the 2.8 will be a nice compromise of power and mileage - plus, it's already in the engine bay with less than 90K miles. Plus, I'm not a great mechanic and I know from what I've read here in the forum that any engine swap is quite a job, many of which are started and never completed, sadly.
That's all a long-winded way to say that it's going to be enough for me to get it running, enjoy driving it, and do what I can to keep it well-maintained and cared for as long as I'm able. I don't see myself making it into a show car, nor building/ swapping drivetrain components. But who know what the future may hold? Maybe I can make it into a flying car like in the one Fast and Furious movie 🤣 🚀
Thanks for the well-wishes! Even with my limited plans, I'll need some luck 🤞🍀
Diz
I fully support people doing whatever it is they want to do with their cars when they own them, EVEN if I might not like it. If everyone thought like I did... everyone in the world would be driving Fieros that looked just like mine, everyone would be a fan of Atari, and we'd have 1 political party. And while maybe in the current group some of that sounds cool... haha... diversity of thought, ideas, etc... is what made all of the things I like possible in the first place. Long winded way of saying... to each their own.
THAT SAID, I am super glad you're thinking about keeping the Fiero stock looking... I mean that. Among the lowest production models of Fieros... the 87 SE is right there in the top 3. They are rare... and were not really any cheaper than the GTs. Most people (that I've talked to) who bought them new, did so because they actually preferred the notchback style over the GT style, but wanted everything that was available in the GT... and that's what those are. You could even order the 87 SE with a 4 cyl if you wanted, which was funny... because it came with the GT exhaust system hooked up to the 4... hah...
But, totally support your decision. I agree... there's a lot to like about the other Fiero models. I like the Formula, I also like the "2m" body style... and I also like the GTs. But the 87 SE is my favorite.
Here is an older picture of my Fiero when I had an apartment and used to drive it around at the age of 19 as a young adult:
Note, I don't really know what's up with the two Mercury Cougars in the background. It was a couple who also lived in the apartment complex, and they loved those cars and used to park them out there too.
But yeah, mine is also an 87 SE, and while I started doing things to it when I was younger, I'm trying to revert it back to stock as much as possible, at least aesthetically. I am adding / changing a few things. I did add the Performance Sound Subwoofer, which was available then... but mine didn't come with it. I also added power door locks many years ago, and I also added Fiero GT wheels... which look kind of nice on the car.
It's been in storage for 14 years, but I will eventually get to it. You can catch a glimpse of it on this video:
(long story, just took a job that required me to move a lot and haven't gotten around to getting it out and fixing it)
I was in the process of converting it to a 5-Speed... which is using all parts from another 1987 Fiero SE that I bought and stripped (back in 2005, 20 years ago... they were more common and this didn't seem like a travesty)
But another thing I've also done, is I'm building out a 3.4 V6/60. The 2.8 is a lot of fun, especially if yours has a 5-Speed (though I loved it with the automatic too). But the 3.4, when built well, brings it back up into current / modern performance times (expect high 14s / quarter, and mid 6s in 0-60... which is still faster/quicker than most cars). So that's what I'm doing. My goal is ~200hp. I've already got all the parts... just need to actually do it.
But your 3.4 as a long-term goal is not a bad idea. I would start looking for a 3.4 block sooner though... the Camaro/Firebird block is basically drop-in...
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I fully support people doing whatever it is they want to do with their cars when they own them, EVEN if I might not like it. If everyone thought like I did... everyone in the world would be driving Fieros that looked just like mine, everyone would be a fan of Atari, and we'd have 1 political party. And while maybe in the current group some of that sounds cool... haha... diversity of thought, ideas, etc... is what made all of the things I like possible in the first place. Long winded way of saying... to each their own.
THAT SAID, I am super glad you're thinking about keeping the Fiero stock looking... I mean that. Among the lowest production models of Fieros... the 87 SE is right there in the top 3. They are rare... and were not really any cheaper than the GTs. Most people (that I've talked to) who bought them new, did so because they actually preferred the notchback style over the GT style, but wanted everything that was available in the GT... and that's what those are. You could even order the 87 SE with a 4 cyl if you wanted, which was funny... because it came with the GT exhaust system hooked up to the 4... hah...
But, totally support your decision. I agree... there's a lot to like about the other Fiero models. I like the Formula, I also like the "2m" body style... and I also like the GTs. But the 87 SE is my favorite.
Here is an older picture of my Fiero when I had an apartment and used to drive it around at the age of 19 as a young adult:
(pic removed for quote)
Note, I don't really know what's up with the two Mercury Cougars in the background. It was a couple who also lived in the apartment complex, and they loved those cars and used to park them out there too.
But yeah, mine is also an 87 SE, and while I started doing things to it when I was younger, I'm trying to revert it back to stock as much as possible, at least aesthetically. I am adding / changing a few things. I did add the Performance Sound Subwoofer, which was available then... but mine didn't come with it. I also added power door locks many years ago, and I also added Fiero GT wheels... which look kind of nice on the car.
It's been in storage for 14 years, but I will eventually get to it. You can catch a glimpse of it on this video:
(video embed removed for quote)
(long story, just took a job that required me to move a lot and haven't gotten around to getting it out and fixing it)
I was in the process of converting it to a 5-Speed... which is using all parts from another 1987 Fiero SE that I bought and stripped (back in 2005, 20 years ago... they were more common and this didn't seem like a travesty)
But another thing I've also done, is I'm building out a 3.4 V6/60. The 2.8 is a lot of fun, especially if yours has a 5-Speed (though I loved it with the automatic too). But the 3.4, when built well, brings it back up into current / modern performance times (expect high 14s / quarter, and mid 6s in 0-60... which is still faster/quicker than most cars). So that's what I'm doing. My goal is ~200hp. I've already got all the parts... just need to actually do it.
But your 3.4 as a long-term goal is not a bad idea. I would start looking for a 3.4 block sooner though... the Camaro/Firebird block is basically drop-in...
I totally agree on supporting whatever anybody wants to do to their Fiero. That's part of what makes the community a lot of fun! I just recently read about this crazy Baja Jalapeno Fiero some guy who allegedly owns 50 Fieros (mostly non-running I think) produces. Looks like this was covered in detail in the forum long ago.
That's some cool context on the 87 SE to learn that it wasn't necessarily a lower offering, but just as much a different choice that some preferred. I have been told by another owner that they prefer "notchies". The 4 cyl with the dual exhaust - kinda cool, actually! That's a crazy nuance - seems like there is always something else I had no idea about with these cars.
The subwoofer would be very cool to have - as an audio guy I would be tempted to install one if I could find the part or recreate something similar. And btw, that's a very sweet 87 you had/ have there (and nice background Cougars too lol). The GT wheels would be a nice swap. Honestly my favorite stock wheels are the small ones on the 84! If I could find a set in good condition, I'd be tempted to put them on and just hold onto the originals.
That video is as cute as can be - you must be stoked about having your kid into this stuff! She's delightful and I'm sure will do well - hopefully attracting the attention of her peers into this world. I was talking to a guy at the beach about his 60s Camaros and how his grandson is right alongside him with a wrench and learning all the intricacies. I respect all who are passing down knowledge and pride to the next generations like you and "Opa".
The 5 speed with the modified 3.4 sounds super exciting. The 3.4 on the one I test drove had been to the machine shop before install and it was growling and spitting! The exhaust would literally pop from time to time when letting off the gas, lol. Should be a great car when it's back on the road again. Good thought on doing it sooner rather than later - I'm not getting any younger and the engines will only get more scarce.
And speaking of Atari, I'm so tempted to get one of these.
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
Diz leaving all original, unmolested would bring in a higher price if you resell it. Just as antiques will.
That really does appeal to me on some level, Cliff! Makes sense, too. While I like to think the car will be a fit, who knows how long I'll be able to keep up with it long term. It would be nice to be able to resell if needed without losing my shirt - I won't hold my breath on that one, though 😉
[This message has been edited by dizzie (edited 06-16-2025).]
Thanks a bunch, guys! So excited to have her in my driveway. Now the real fun begins haha. Inside, it had extra gauges, plug wires, and O2 sensor, manuals, as well as three total sets of keys! Clips for a LeBra bumper cover are present. Hoses are actually not dry-rotted and the 15 year old tires seem to be holding air just fine when inflated to 30psi (I'll change them after we get it driving). Really pleased with the overall condition. Even had a sunroof air deflector under the hood. Does that stay on all the time or only when the sunroof is completely off? Also, what is this little pipe that vents into the back of the engine bay? Should something be connected to it?
[This message has been edited by dizzie (edited 08-01-2025).]
Thanks a bunch, guys! So excited to have her in my driveway. Now the real fun begins. Had extra gauges, plug wires, and O2 sensor inside, as well as three total sets of keys! Clips for a LeBra bumper cover are present. Hoses are actually not dry-rotted and the 15 year old tires seem to be holding air just fine when inflated to 30psi (I'll change them after we get it driving). Really pleased with the overall condition. Even had a sunroof air deflector under the hood. Does that stay on all the time or only when the sunroof is completely off?
The deflector gets stored in the front when the sunroof is installed on the car. You don't HAVE to use it when the sunroof is stowed and removed; however, it makes the drive much better. Otherwise you get what is effectively a whirlwind into the car. It nearly eliminates any wind disturbance with it installed. Totally worth it.
Ahh cool, great to know, thanks. Added some photos and an additional question in the above post. You were too fast for me!
That pipe (that it's open) is part of a recall. I THINK it originally connected the PCV to the front of the air cleaner, or something like that, I can't remember. But regardless... GM did a recall on all Fieros. The first year Fiero was the only one that ever had fire issues (that were because of any specific design flaw). It had something like 1 out of every 5 connecting rods that had imperfections in the casting. It resulted in some 200 engines that blew up with less than 20k miles on them. Blew up as in, a rod broke and sent shrapnel out the oil pan, which inadvertently would then dump oil all over the catalytic converter and cause a fire.
But, it was one of those "we must do something to show we're doing something" that organizations do, so they made several changes to these cars, which included that. That tube is basically bypassed, and it should likely also be open on the other side as well. Some people find a rubber cap and cap it off, while others try to cut it and remove it from the other smaller vacuum line that's attached to it below.
EDIT: Another thing they removed was a weather seal that goes between the trunk lid and the rear window. You see those little square "slots" in the back of the decklid? There was supposed to be a clip in each of those, and it attached a big rubber strip that sealed the decklid against the window. This prevented water from dripping down directly onto the exhaust manifold and rusting out the bolts. There are several cars that didn't get the recall, and these are sought after. People re-install them because it's kind of silly... I don't really know what the logic was, as it doesn't help cool... maybe it was something to the effect that, if there was a fire, it would be more obvious since you'd see flames coming up... or something?
Also, since I was talking about the catalytic converter... if you still have the original (huge flat charcoal pellet canister), it might be worthwhile to replace it with one of the newer aftermarket ones. You'll pass emissions better (if that's a concern), have more horsepower, and drop some weight. Long story, but back in the 70s, some company that made these lobbied the EPA, and they forced car companies to use these instead of the honeycomb style cats that were far more efficient. They rescinded that law back in the late 80s, so all new cars from like 1988+ came with the newer style of cats that all other cars have today.
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 08-01-2025).]
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: That pipe (that it's open) is part of a recall. I THINK it originally connected the PCV to the front of the air cleaner, or something like that, I can't remember. But regardless... GM did a recall on all Fieros. The first year Fiero was the only one that ever had fire issues (that were because of any specific design flaw). It had something like 1 out of every 5 connecting rods that had imperfections in the casting. It resulted in some 200 engines that blew up with less than 20k miles on them. Blew up as in, a rod..
Wow, truly great info and context, thanks again! I'll be looking into the cat and maybe even putting some of my own weatherstripping in that area since I don't have a garage or carport. Appreciated!
[This message has been edited by dizzie (edited 08-01-2025).]
Overdue update! We started by pulling the plugs last week and putting marvel mystery oil in all the cylinders to sit while I was away for the week. The valves looked pretty good inside! We looked again with a scope yesterday and all the oil seems to have since penetrated and drained down around the pistons.
Yesterday we removed the wheels, put it on jack stands (scary - one of the temporary jack points was a bracket piece that wraps around the cooling tubes), took a look at where the fuel filter was, changed oil and filter, tried unsuccessfully to get a scope down the tank, removed the old battery, and probably other stuff I'm forgetting. We did a general inspection and control arms and sway bars actually look pretty good. Motor mounts aren't awful, hoses are surprisingly not dry rotted, and the 25 year old tires continue to hold air, lol. Rotors are rusted over and brakes are scraping. Hopefully the calipers are ok.
At one point I sprayed brake cleaner down the sunroof drains to make sure they were clear. Trunk is relatively clean! I have plugs, a new radiator cap, fuel filter, and Delco manual transmission fluid on the way, and there were new plug wires in the car.
Next, we'll try unhooking the fuel filter, hooking up a battery, and seeing if the fuel pump will remove whatever is left in there, if anything, into a drain pan. Then we'll try to flush it with some new gas and try to get a sense of the state of the inside of the tank. We'll also finally try to turn the engine over by hand. In fact, we'll probably do that first - if that doesn't work, all this could come to an end very quickly. I'm not doing an engine swap.
The oil was dark and about 2,000 miles overdue (5K miles total since last oil change) according to the odometer and windshield sticker. There was one little thing we found in the oil, too - I'm unsure whether it was a metal shaving, but hopefully not!
If the above goes well, we'll add some more gas, some coolant, and maybe try firing it up. Oh, I need to check that heater box for nests and debris first, though.
...what is this little pipe that vents into the back of the engine bay? Should something be connected to it?
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE
After the PCV system was altered for the recall, that pipe was supposed to be capped off... as it leads to the filtered side of the air filter cannister. Hopefully you'll find that the fitting on the air filter cannister was plugged instead. If not, unfiltered air has been sucked into this TB/intake system for decades.
quote
Originally posted by dizzie:
Next, we'll try unhooking the fuel filter, hooking up a battery, and seeing if the fuel pump will remove whatever is left in there...
And this car has been sitting for 15 years? It's a longshot that the fuel pump will still run.
I'm just going through this with an '86 GT that I've had in storage for a dozen years. When I apply 12v (from the cigarette lighter) to the fuel pump terminal of the ALDL connector, all I hear is a muffled thump. The fuel pump is basically seized and won't spin up. I've dumped several gallons of fresh gas in the tank, infused with injector cleaner, hoping it might loosen up the fuel pump over the course of a week. I'm not optimistic, but I figure it's worth a shot. I'll also try connecting two batteries in parallel to the ALDL fuel pump terminal, hoping that the extra boost in power may help to jump-start the pump.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-13-2025).]
And this car has been sitting for 15 years? It's a longshot that the fuel pump will still run.
I'm just going through this with an '86 GT that I've had in storage for a dozen years. When I apply 12v (from the cigarette lighter) to the fuel pump terminal of the ALDL connector, all I hear is a muffled thump. The fuel pump is basically seized and won't spin up. I've dumped several gallons of fresh gas in the tank, infused with injector cleaner, hoping it might loosen up the fuel pump over the course of a week. I'm not optimistic, but I figure it's worth a shot. I'll also try connecting two batteries in parallel to the ALDL fuel pump terminal, hoping that the extra boost in power may help to jump-start the pump.
Thanks, Patrick - I'll check to see if it's capped off. Interesting to hear you've been working on getting an old fuel pump going, too! I hope the extra measures will get it back in action - let me know how it turns out if you think of it. If so, I may end up having to do the same. I really don't want to drop the fuel tank but I will if I have to. If I can't get the fuel pump to work, I may try cranking it on starter fluid just to make sure the engine will actually crank and run.
If you have driven a Lamborghini Countach, the leg room in the Fiero would feel like a you are in a H1 Hummer.
PDF files are available as a free download of the factory service manuals for most years - must have (has all wiring diagrams and step by step troubleshooting - except for the 84, there doesn't seem to be a full manual for this year). There are copies of the Haynes and Chilton manuals as well. Even a copy of the GM parts manual can be downloaded as well as other documents.
[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 08-14-2025).]
If you have driven a Lamborghini Countach, the leg room in the Fiero would feel like a you are in a H1 Hummer.
PDF files are available as a free download of the factory service manuals for most years - must have (has all wiring diagrams and step by step troubleshooting - except for the 84, there doesn't seem to be a full manual for this year). There are copies of the Haynes and Chilton manuals as well. Even a copy of the GM parts manual can be downloaded as well as other documents.
Haha I'm sure you're right! Thanks for the tip, I was able to get a hold of all the manuals 👍
Well, it's been far too long since I updated this thread! Honestly I've lost a bit of momentum. We've done a number of things to it, including dropping the fuel tank since we determined the fuel pump was inop. A test of the old pump proved that correct. We also fixed the fuel sender, put in new plugs and wires, and some other stuff I'm forgetting. Oh - earlier we got it to fire up on starter fluid (see video here) after it had sat for a week with Marvel Mystery Oil in all the cylinders. That was exciting! Changed the engine oil and manual transmission fluid (there was dark oil in the engine, and there was still plenty of trans fluid!) Replaced the oil and battery gauge with a new one that was in the car. The 25 year old tires have actually held air! Oh, that's another thing - the car was last registered in 1999. I really think this thing may have not been driven in the last 25 years, at least not with any regularity.
My biggest question right now is the gas tank. I took it to a radiator guy and he said he'd have to remove the baffle to clean and seal it and that the baffle would get destroyed in the process. It didn't sound like welding in new metal baffles would be a cost-effective option. I called Por-15 and they said that the epoxy would likely slide off the plastic baffle in a sheet at some point down the line, possibly clogging the fuel filter. So I'm not sure whether I should A) destroy and remove the baffle myself and use POR-15 to save a couple hundred bucks, B) Allow the radiator guy to do the same type of destructive procedure, or C) See if I could get him to make his cut on the end as shown in my marked up photo, potentially removing the baffle for reinsertion. I'm leaning towards the latter.
I've got a new temp sensor to replace and have tested it successfully with the new battery. Oh - all the electronics work so far! The headlights even popped up - once. Then the interior little cylinder pieces promptly disintegrated. I have the repair kit from Rodney Dickman waiting to go. I also have rotors, pads, brake hoses, fluid, brake master cylinder, clutch master and slave cylinder to go on after the fuel tank.
When we took the wheels off, I found that the upper rear frame rails are in super shape, hallelujah! There is only one spot with some significant rust - under the battery tray. Not sure if this needs reinforcement or not? There's also some surface rust on the lower frame rail on one side.
I'll post some photos, and be sure to click the above link to see it come to life, ever so briefly. Hoping to get this fuel tank stuff sorted out soon. Also hoping that there won't be loads of vacuum hoses to replace, though I should probably do coolant hoses. Miraculously, the hoses aren't dry rotted - probably becase the garage was relatively cool and temperature controlled, and somewhat humid. It took forever to cut through the hoses attached to the gas tank! I have replacements for them all.
Remember if you reply to remove the photos or just don't quote me to begin with since reposting photos in the same thread seems to be an issue around these parts 😉
[This message has been edited by dizzie (edited 09-11-2025).]
I seem to recall that someone (relatively recently) posted here about how they dealt with a rusted gas tank, and it did not involve removing the baffles. I suggest you hold off doing anything drastic until someone hopefully posts a link to that thread/process.
Thanks, Patrick! I had already taken a thorough look through the forum and archives on every entry mentioning the gas tank I could find. I took a fresh look and couldn't find anything new, but maybe I'm just missing the needle in the haystack.
I ended up buying 9 gal of vinegar to sit in the tank for a day or two to see if I can get rid of the bulk of the interior surface rust while keeping the baffle in place.
Added water and was able to get a total of 12.5 gallons filling the tank up to the very brim! I didn't expect to get much over 10. While I don't think this is nearly all usable capacity (more like 9; or 10) I thought it was interesting to know how much liquid the thing would hold.
Going to rinse it out really good in a day or two, put a little baking soda and water in it to neutralize it, and then slosh around a smidgen of diesel fuel in the bottom to coat it and prevent any flash rusting.
Hopefully this will end up saving a few hundred dollars as well as retaining the original baffle that's still in great shape, we'll see.
Also started working on the headlight rebuild kit from Rodney Dickman. Here's a photo of the installation instructions in case anybody should ever need them. I had wanted to take a look at them prior to the kit getting here, but couldn't find them anywhere online:
It's a longshot that the fuel pump will still run.
