My 1985 GT started overheating a few weeks ago when it was sub-zero temperatures outside, and I haven't been able to make it stop since. After running from cold for five to ten minutes, the car reaches around 260 and the dash indicators start popping up. During the several short trips it took to get it home without overheating, I could visibly see it smoking from the vents outside the vehicle. When I finally got to fixing it, I had to put in new belts as both were no longer present in the engine bay. My father and I figured that the radiator could be run from one of the pulleys, but the issue was still persistent. We've tried filling the radiator with more coolant, and turning on the AC does make the radiator spin, but the engine still overheats. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
The radiator still didn't spin despite all the belts being present on the engine. Unless you mean our assumption, then we were making it based on what we had seen on some cars before. I know the Fiero's a weird car, but it was worth a shot.
I think he may be talking about the waterpump....but if not possibly he is mistaken in referencing the radiator FAN with accessory-drive belts...
Sorry if my post was confusing. When I say figured, I don't mean concluded. We just were hoping that the radiator fan might start spinning if we get all the belts back on. This wasn't true with the fiero though. The radiator fan only spins if I turn on the ac. This is my main issue.
Originally posted by Hamfiero: Sorry if my post was confusing. When I say figured, I don't mean concluded. We just were hoping that the radiator fan might start spinning if we get all the belts back on. This wasn't true with the fiero though. The radiator fan only spins if I turn on the ac. This is my main issue.
The radiator fan only spins when the temperature of the coolant has reached something like 235°, or the AC is turned on. The belts run the water pump, which circulate coolant through the engine at all times when running, and through the radiator when the temp is above 195°. If your belts are both in place, and the car still overheats, my guesses would be: seized thermostat, open the "radiator cap"on the engine, and pull out the thing sticking up from inside (considerable force), then put the cap back on without the thermostat and run the car to see if it still overheats. If it doesn't, simple fix, get a new thermostat, if it still overheats, there may be an air bubble in the coolant system, in which case you need to fill it from the engine "radiator cap", the coolant should be right up to the top of the engine coolant cap. or the water pump could be broken. If this has always happened or has happened since taking it to a garage, check the under car coolant pipes, as sometimes mechanics like to use them as jacking points and crush them, should be very visible if that is crushed.
What? I'm asking for help here. Obviously, I'm not a mechanic. We made a guess and it was wrong. We thought we could fix two birds with one stone, but it only fixed one. I'd really like to drive my car, but no one has even tried to give me a serious response as to why this might be happening to my car. I can upload a video if you are still confused if that will help you understand better.
Potentially, but some legitimate problems can be caused by running a car with no water pump, and if one is not at all accustomed to working on cars, and doesn't have a full grasp on the English language, or simply doesn't know how to put the symptoms into words, it can get pretty strange. I live on the Quebec border, and don't speak French, and some of those encounters are weird, people trying to describe something and it just doesn't get understood.
The radiator fan only spins when the temperature of the coolant has reached something like 235°, or the AC is turned on. The belts run the water pump, which circulate coolant through the engine at all times when running, and through the radiator when the temp is above 195°. If your belts are both in place, and the car still overheats, my guesses would be: seized thermostat, open the "radiator cap"on the engine, and pull out the thing sticking up from inside (considerable force), then put the cap back on without the thermostat and run the car to see if it still overheats. If it doesn't, simple fix, get a new thermostat, if it still overheats, there may be an air bubble in the coolant system, in which case you need to fill it from the engine "radiator cap", the coolant should be right up to the top of the engine coolant cap. or the water pump could be broken. If this has always happened or has happened since taking it to a garage, check the under car coolant pipes, as sometimes mechanics like to use them as jacking points and crush them, should be very visible if that is crushed.
Thanks a bunch for the helpful reply! My dad was just telling me that he thought it might be the thermostat, but we weren't sure where it was or how to check it. I'll make sure to check tomorrow and give you any updates as to what I discover. I guess I forgot to say, but my car only started overheating whenever the temperatures dropped below zero degrees Fahrenheit a few weeks ago, which is pretty uncommon for Tennessee. Everything had worked perfectly for many months (besides a shift cable connection from the previous owner that used zip ties to connect it to the engine), so I've been super bummed out having to drive an automatic SUV everywhere.
Thanks a bunch for the helpful reply! My dad was just telling me that he thought it might be the thermostat, but we weren't sure where it was or how to check it. I'll make sure to check tomorrow and give you any updates as to what I discover. I guess I forgot to say, but my car only started overheating whenever the temperatures dropped below zero degrees Fahrenheit a few weeks ago, which is pretty uncommon for Tennessee. Everything had worked perfectly for many months (besides a shift cable connection from the previous owner that used zip ties to connect it to the engine), so I've been super bummed out having to drive an automatic SUV everywhere.
Thanks, - Hamfiero
0 degrees Fahrenheit is cold, but I don't think that is related to your overheating, other then potentially making the belts more brittle and snapping then at the beginning of the problem, in such cold weather a car can be driven a surprising distance without overheating, just have to go slow take lots of breaks and don't trust your temp gauge, I had to drive my dad's Cutlass Ciera about 15 minutes with NO coolant in it, the block heater had corroded and fallen out, dumping all coolant with it, a year later and it is still going strong(with new coolant and a block heater) so nothing was damaged, thankfully.
Back to your problem like I said the radiator fan should not be on all the time, if everything is operating as it should, the fan should never turn on, unless you are idling at operating Temp for more then 5 minutes, on a hot day, like in stop and go traffic, many new trucks will turn the fan on automatically when in park, as trucks can be left idling long periods of time, and some older cars have the fan connected directly into the belt drive on the engine, always running when the engine is running. The Fiero isn't like that.
What? I'm asking for help here. Obviously, I'm not a mechanic.
Your description of the issues has been rather unusual to say the least, being a mechanic or not... but okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
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Originally posted by Hamfiero:
...my car only started overheating whenever the temperatures dropped below zero degrees Fahrenheit a few weeks ago, which is pretty uncommon for Tennessee.
Being located in Tennessee, is there a chance that the percentage of antifreeze in the coolant wasn't high enough to prevent freezing of the coolant? If the coolant froze solid (and expanded) anywhere in the system, it may've cracked that area and caused a coolant leak. If the coolant level is low, and there's now air in the system, there's going to be overheating issues. Here's a guide I posted years ago for "burping" the Fiero's cooling system. (And obviously if the coolant is leaking somewhere, that needs to be corrected.)
I've used the following procedure with half a dozen different Fieros (running a Stant SuperStat 195° thermostat and a 210° on and 200° off fan switch) and never had an overheating issue...
* Make sure rad cap is the proper one for Fiero use. The catalogs are wrong! You want a non-vented cap. * Check that the overflow tank and the small hose to the rad are both in good shape. Otherwise air gets sucked in. * Ensure that coolant level in overflow tank is at the "Cold" level. * Position rear end of Fiero higher than the front. * Remove thermostat housing cap and thermostat... and then add coolant to thermostat housing with rad cap also removed until coolant runs out the top of the radiator. * Re-install rad cap.
* Continue to add coolant until you see the level come up to where the thermostat normally sits. * Put thermostat cap on and turn just barely enough to hold cap on. * Start engine and run for about 30 seconds. * Remove thermostat cap and check coolant level. * Repeat last four steps until coolant level no longer drops.
* Re-install thermostat and thermostat housing cap.
As long as there are no blockages anywhere in the cooling system and the water pump is circulating coolant, you should be good to go.
Being located in Tennessee, is there a chance that the percentage of antifreeze in the coolant wasn't high enough to prevent freezing of the coolant? If the coolant froze solid (and expanded) anywhere in the system, it may've cracked that area and caused a coolant leak. If the coolant level is low, and there's now air in the system, there's going to be overheating issues. Here's a guide I posted years ago for "burping" the Fiero's cooling system. (And obviously if the coolant is leaking somewhere, that needs to be corrected.)
I've used the following procedure with half a dozen different Fieros (running a Stant SuperStat 195° thermostat and a 210° on and 200° off fan switch) and never had an overheating issue...
* Make sure rad cap is the proper one for Fiero use. The catalogs are wrong! You want a non-vented cap. * Check that the overflow tank and the small hose to the rad are both in good shape. Otherwise air gets sucked in. * Ensure that coolant level in overflow tank is at the "Cold" level. * Position rear end of Fiero higher than the front. * Remove thermostat housing cap and thermostat... and then add coolant to thermostat housing with rad cap also removed until coolant runs out the top of the radiator. * Re-install rad cap.
* Continue to add coolant until you see the level come up to where the thermostat normally sits. * Put thermostat cap on and turn just barely enough to hold cap on. * Start engine and run for about 30 seconds. * Remove thermostat cap and check coolant level. * Repeat last four steps until coolant level no longer drops.
* Re-install thermostat and thermostat housing cap.
As long as there are no blockages anywhere in the cooling system and the water pump is circulating coolant, you should be good to go.
[/QUOTE]
Well thanks, but the fiero is from Minnesota and doesn't leak any coolant. We put antifreeze in it when we did fill it up in Tennessee.
One of the problems I ran into when my 85 SE V6 was 18 years old was it started to overheat...After a while I realized the fan was not coming on until I was sitting at the side of the road due to overheating...I changed out the fan temp-sensor for a >>slightly << lower temp one and the problem was solved- Although first, I tried a very low-temp sensor and the fan was running ALL THE TIME. (Original (But Old) temp sensor; 237*, correct slightly lower sensor; 225*)
Another problem I had was when I swapped in the 3.4 F-body long-block, I installed a new water-pump...with a >>plastic<< impeller...I had to pull over at the same spot on the freeway 3 times in a row on my way to work....the plastic impeller expands on the >>steel<< shaft and then slips so no coolant flow. Lesson; Only buy water-pumps with steel impellers for your Fiero.
The reason your post is confusing is because the things you describe are simply not possible.
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When I finally got to fixing it, I had to put in new belts as both were no longer present in the engine bay.
If both belts were missing, the car would not run at all.
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My father and I figured that the radiator could be run from one of the pulleys
At first I thought you meant the water pump, since the radiator isn't anywhere near the engine (they're actually on opposite sides of the car, but then you say
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We've tried filling the radiator with more coolant, and turning on the AC does make the radiator spin
So now I'm wondering if you call the water pump, radiator and radiator fan all a "radiator". That's confusing to say the least. 😊
The water pump is on the engine (and on the outside fortunately), a single belt drives both the water pump and alternator (which is the reason that without it, your car would not be able to run). The radiator is the flat thing in front that cools the coolant, and the fan is, well, the fan.
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My father and I figured that the radiator could be run from one of the pulleys, but the issue was still persistent.
We are completely in the dark what you did here. If with radiator you mean "water pump", what exactly did you do? Because again, you either put a belt around all three pulleys, or only between water pump/alternator (in which cast the car wouldn't run) or between water pump/engine (in which case it wouldn't run). The only way the car would run (but without cooling) is if you put a belt between engine and alternator.
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During the several short trips it took to get it home without overheating, I could visibly see it smoking from the vents outside the vehicle.
Smoke coming from the vents isn't a symptom of overheating, it's a symptom of a coolant leak. There are no over-pressure vents in the engine bay. Overheating is a symptom of a coolant leak. So at least we have established you have a coolant leak.
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The radiator still didn't spin despite all the belts being present on the engine.
Do you mean the waterpump or the radiator fan? And what's your logic behind the idea the radiator fan would spin once you install the belt?
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Unless you mean our assumption, then we were making it based on what we had seen on some cars before. I know the Fiero's a weird car, but it was worth a shot.
True, there are some very old/weird cars that have belt driven radiator fans. But those are all front-engine cars where the engine and radiator are in the same (engine) bay.
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I'm not a mechanic. We made a guess and it was wrong. We thought we could fix two birds with one stone, but it only fixed one. I'd really like to drive my car, but no one has even tried to give me a serious response as to why this might be happening to my car.
Actually, you have gotten several serious responses, but we are completely in the dark about what exactly the problem is and what you have done so far to try to fix it. Because again, the things you say you have done are unclear.
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My dad was just telling me that he thought it might be the thermostat, but we weren't sure where it was or how to check it.
Not to be condescending or anything, but if you can't find the thermostat on a Fiero, maybe you shouldn't work on the car before you have bought a workshop manual or a haynes manual. If you open the engine bay, the thing is staring you in the face. The thermostat housing is one of the most prominent features on a Fiero engine and the writing on the thermostat cap should have given you a clue that it's part of the coolant system.
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Well thanks, but the fiero is from Minnesota and doesn't leak any coolant. We put antifreeze in it when we did fill it up in Tennessee.
Yes it does. If you see smoke coming out from the vents of the engine bay, then you have a coolant leak. Come to think of it, if you hadn't found the thermostat yet, how and where did you fill it with coolant? Overflow bottle? Radiator? Because if you have low coolant, trying to fill the system from those spots without opening the thermostat housing will not work.
So in short, your posts are unclear and filled with contradictions (which is probably the reason why some people here react the way they do because, well, they have low tolerance and not a lot of patience). Don't confuse that with a lack of willingness to help. We all want to help you but if you ask questions, please do not just simply dismiss our answers because you think it must be something else. You describe problems that aren't problems (like the radiator fan not running all the time), situations that are not possible (the car running without any belts installed) and fixes that are strange to say the least and use a single term to describe three different parts of the coolant system.
So in order for us to help you, please start by making a photo of your engine and the "fixes" you have done so far and post it here.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: (the car running without any belts installed)/QUOTE]
Actually the car would run for a little while without any belts installed, it would drain the battery fast and it would overheat the engine very fast, hard to say what would happen first, the battery dying or the temperatures reaching warning light level, but both are equally needed for the engine to run properly, not that it couldn't start and run at all, just a very very limited time, before the battery died or the coolant overheated.
Actually the car would run for a little while without any belts installed, it would drain the battery fast and it would overheat the engine very fast
Well, yeah, (on a full battery) it would run for perhaps a few hours or so (with no lights on) until the battery was drained to the point where it would no longer be able to provide spark. So I consider that "not running".
Well, yeah, (on a full battery) it would run for perhaps a few hours or so (with no lights on) until the battery was drained to the point where it would no longer be able to provide spark. So I consider that "not running".
Yeah, and it would be perhaps 30 minutes to an hour (at most) before the coolant in the engine boils away and the engine gets serious damage from overheating, so the initial symptom would be overheating, which was the case here.
Incidentally, considering he had "smoke" coming out the engine vents, doesn't necessarily mean he has a coolant leak, if the water pump wasn't pumping and the engine reached a temp to boil the coolant, then that coolant steam will escape wherever it can, leaking around fittings and hoses, essentially a leak that leads vaporized coolant under immense pressure, but not the liquid form under the little bit of pressure it normally operates at. With that said, if the coolant found a place to escape, that will be more likely to leak the liquid form later on, may not leak now, but no telling when it will start again.
Sorry if my post was confusing. When I say figured, I don't mean concluded. We just were hoping that the radiator fan might start spinning if we get all the belts back on. This wasn't true with the fiero though. The radiator fan only spins if I turn on the ac. This is my main issue.
To be honest with you... I had an 87 Fiero SE / V6 (basically your car), and the radiator fan rarely, if ever came on. Even just sitting in the driveway, in 60 degree weather, the radiator fan wouldn't bother to come on because the car was able to keep itself cool. This was with a 180 degree thermostat though, which I don't really recommend anymore. But it had fresh 50/50 mix of coolant, a new water pump, and everything was perfect. Your Fiero should reasonably be the same in proper working order. If you're driving... (and not stop and go traffic), the radiator fan should never need to come on because the air going past the radiator should be enough to keep it cool.
These are the things I would check in this order: - Replace your thermostat with a new STANT 195 degree thermostat. - Check your cooling lines to make sure they are not bent and / or damaged (they run under the passenger and drivers side door threshold) - Check the temperature fan switch (looks like below) - Flush the radiator / cooling system. MAKE SURE YOU "BURP THE SYSTEM" when you're done!
Yeah, and it would be perhaps 30 minutes to an hour (at most) before the coolant in the engine boils away and the engine gets serious damage from overheating, so the initial symptom would be overheating, which was the case here.
Not exactly. It's not a newly aquired car that overheated from the first drive. OP said it started when it got cold. He had been driving the car prior to that without problems. Something that is not possible without belts.
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Incidentally, considering he had "smoke" coming out the engine vents, doesn't necessarily mean he has a coolant leak
Unless the engine is leaking a massive amount of oil, smoke coming from the engine vents is almost always coolant. Almost always. If it's oil, that should be easy to spot because you will still see "wet" spots even after you haven't driven the car for a while.
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leaking around fittings and hoses, essentially a leak that leads vaporized coolant under immense pressure, but not the liquid form under the little bit of pressure it normally operates at.
It would not leak from fittings unless they leak. Fittings and hoses that don't leak can withstand the pressure with ease because it (should) never get higher than 16 psi which is when the radiator cap opens up.
So we agree he has a leak. The cooling system is a closed system. If there's a leak, it leaks liquid coolant, not steam since the cooling system should not contain any vapor. If it does, then again it means he has a leak somewhere and the car is really, really low on coolant.
Hamfiero: The radiator fan only spins if I turn on the ac. This is my main issue.
Then check the 'coolant temperature switch' by connecting the wire to the engine block or 'ground'. (This switch is next to the thermostat housing.) *If the radiator fan turns on; replace the switch *If the radiator fan did not turn on; check the wires from the coolant temperature switch to the radiator fan
'85 Radiator Fan Circuit (coolant temperature switch is the bottom on the page)
It would not leak from fittings unless they leak. Fittings and hoses that don't leak can withstand the pressure with ease because it (should) never get higher than 16 psi which is when the radiator cap opens up.
So we agree he has a leak. The cooling system is a closed system. If there's a leak, it leaks liquid coolant, not steam since the cooling system should not contain any vapor. If it does, then again it means he has a leak somewhere and the car is really, really low on coolant.
What I'm saying is that the cold temperature is coincidental at most, or maybe caused the belts to become brittle and break, which then means the water pump is not spinning, and the engine is heating up without any circulation of coolant, thus boiling the coolant in the engine, as steam takes up much more space then liquid coolant, it rapidly over pressurised the engine, which caused it to leak at the next weakest point, a place that may not necessarily leak after refilling with liquid coolant and running at normal pressure. Like I said, there were a lot of symptoms, some connected, some not connected, if he had a proper mix of antifreeze, the cold has nothing to do with it, other then potentially making the belts brittle. If the belts broke off, rapid failure of the cooling system would immediately result, well before the engine stopped running from lack of voltage, resulting in the coolant left stagnant in the engine boiling off as steam, escaping from whatever will leak when exposed to the force of boiling water. Point is he had a leak when all the steam escaped, he should be worrying about refilling his coolant system, checking operation of the thermostat, and making sure the water pump is pumping coolant and the belts are hooked up properly before wiring about a potential coolant leak that he may or may not have at normal operating pressure, that can be discovered/addressed when he is certain that coolant is able to circulate at all.
I think that the cold broke the belts, causing the now stagnant fluid in the engine to boil, rapidly boiling fluid created an exit path, if it was through the seating surfaces on rubber hoses, that could very well reseal once the pressure dropped back to normal, and his current overheating concern (with new belts) is likely caused by either a stuck thermostat, or (very likely) improper burping of the engine side coolant system, once the coolant is burped, and the thermostat is checked, then any leaks will show themselves, and can be fixed.
What I'm saying is that the cold temperature is coincidental at most
If he has the proper coolant, then I agree. What I'm saying is that he claims he has been driving the car for quite some time without belts - which is not possible.
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If the belts broke off, rapid failure of the cooling system would immediately result, well before the engine stopped running from lack of voltage
Again, I agree, but he said he made a few short trips. Without a charging alternator, you would notice other problems very, very soon. That does not take hours. I remember my alternator failing once, and it took 30 minutes of driving (with my lights on) before my Fiero simply shut off. Before that I noticed all kinds of things. Applying throttle made the car bog for one thing.
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Point is [if] he had a leak when all the steam escaped, he should be worrying about refilling his coolant system, checking operation of the thermostat, and making sure the water pump is pumping coolant and the belts are hooked up properly before wiring about a potential coolant leak that he may or may not have at normal operating pressure, that can be discovered/addressed when he is certain that coolant is able to circulate at all.
I agree. But I'm sure he has a leak. It's takes quite a bit of coolant to make the steam visible through the vents (I know because I have a leak now just behind the thermostat housing). But before we/he can do any troubleshooting, he needs to take a picture and show us what he has done because his description doesn't make that clear at all. If indeed he has installed both belts as he says, then we know the old belts broke. That leads to everything you said above. But at least I can't make that up from what he writes. OP thinks the problem is caused by the radiator fan not spinning. Which is not true. As someone else mentioned earlier, a Fiero's radiator fan hardly ever comes on. Especially in the winter. The fact that it doesn't come on when it's overheating doesn't necessarily mean the temperature sensor or the radiator fan is faulty. If there's air in the system, there can be a huge temperature difference between the temperature sensor and the temperature gauge sender. Again, I know from experience...
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I think that the cold broke the belts, causing the now stagnant fluid in the engine to boil, rapidly boiling fluid created an exit path, if it was through the seating surfaces on rubber hoses, that could very well reseal once the pressure dropped back to normal, and his current overheating concern (with new belts) is likely caused by either a stuck thermostat, or (very likely) improper burping of the engine side coolant system, once the coolant is burped, and the thermostat is checked, then any leaks will show themselves, and can be fixed.
Exactly. If the belts broke, then the current problem isn't (only) caused by a sticking thermostat, but by an incorrectly filled coolant system (and we know he didn't fill it properly because he couldn't find the thermostat. Sure, his thermostat could be sticking now but replacing it won't solve the problem. If coolant escaped through a leak in the engine bay, then the system sucked in a lot of air when the engine cooled down. For now, he needs to shift his focus from the radiator fan to the (rest of the) coolant system. He needs to fill the coolant system properly, get the engine up to temperature, and find the leak - because there absolutely is one. And I bet ya that once he has done all that, the radiator fan also suddenly starts working.
Wow, I had no idea that my post was that confusing. As I said, I'm nowhere near a mechanic, so I'm sorry if my ideas aren't correct.
I'll try to respond to your comments to the best of my abilities:
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If both belts were missing, the car would not run at all.
Well, I managed to drive nearly three miles with both the serpentine belt and accessory belt missing through multiple stop-and-go trips. Once I got it off the interstate, I took the battery home with me and charged it up before returning and going as far as I could go without it overheating. So, it did in fact run with some assistance. It lacked power, I'm guessing due to the lack of a belt to run the alternator and keep the battery charged.
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So now I'm wondering if you call the water pump, radiator and radiator fan all a "radiator".
Hmmm, not really what I meant by that. We did not believe the water pump was in the engine bay. We had heard about other cars that had their radiators run by some sort of belt and pulley system. We assumed it worked something like this: somehow something in the engine spins the radiator fan, the spinning motion is transferred to the water pump as well, and lines are run back to the engine to cool it. Were we right? Of course not. It was just an idea of what could have happened as a side effect of putting belts on the pulleys. I'm not exactly sure what we were thinking of, but I believe it was something like a fan clutch. Again, we're not mechanics, so it was just an average non-mechanic human brain assumption of how cars work that turned out to be wrong. We knew the radiator and its fan were on the opposite side of the car and that it wouldn't be possible for it to work like this, but it was just a hope that fixing the belts would kill two birds with one stone.
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We are completely in the dark what you did here.
We put belts on the pulleys. I was pretty sure I said that, so I'm sorry if I neglected to inform you all of it. Again, we made a wrong assumption of how the car worked which didn't solve the overheating of the car. We thought that putting the belts on the car might cause it to stop overheating. This didn't happen though which is why I've asked this forum for help.
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Smoke coming from the vents isn't a symptom of overheating, it's a symptom of a coolant leak. There are no over-pressure vents in the engine bay. Overheating is a symptom of a coolant leak. So at least we have established you have a coolant leak.
This does seem like a logical way of thinking. I just don't understand how it could be right though as there is never any liquid under my car except for one time when I found a minuscule spot of oil (around half an inch in diameter) on the cement of a friend's driveway. Besides that one incident, I haven't seen anything else. I also have never seen the smoke coming from the engine ever whenever it is running at normal temperatures. It only smokes when it gets to 260F+. It's my assumption that if I did have a coolant leak, it would leak onto the floor beneath the car. Yet, I haven't seen a single drop of any fluids beneath the engine bay on level and inclined ground. Again, I'm not a mechanic, so this is just an assumption I've made with my basic understanding of how cars work. If you could provide me with more information regarding the smoke, it'd be greatly appreciated as I'd like to fix all of the issues with my car, but since it's only happening when my car reaches those high temperatures, I'm not sure it's much of a problem but more of an inconvenience at extremely rare times.
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Do you mean the waterpump or the radiator fan? And what's your logic behind the idea the radiator fan would spin once you install the belt?
I'm probably sounding like a broken record, but again, I'm not a mechanic. It was just a wrong assumption. I do apologize for saying radiator instead of radiator fan. I truly did mean radiator fan, but I guess I just forgot to type the word "fan" afterward. That is completely my fault, and I understand why it'd confuse you guys. I assume you guys don't usually get non mechanics on here who don't know the terms for everything, so it only makes sense for you all to be irritated. I also get irritated at those who are ignorant of my fields of study and try to communicate with me through completely incorrect terminology, so I completely understand how you all must feel.
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True, there are some very old/weird cars that have belt driven radiator fans. But those are all front-engine cars where the engine and radiator are in the same (engine) bay.
Yes, we realized.
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Actually, you have gotten several serious responses, but we are completely in the dark about what exactly the problem is and what you have done so far to try to fix it. Because again, the things you say you have done are unclear.
Indeed I have, and I am very grateful to 1985 Fiero GT for trying to help me in my troubled times. I plan to check my thermostat directly because of their response. I apologize for my hard-to-understand descriptions of my issues. I really just want to get my car running again as the weather gets nicer. My problem, or at least what I am thinking the problem is, is that my engine overheats after five to ten minutes of running. I haven't tried much to fix it as I was busy fixing another problem (missing both belts in the engine), and I have just now gotten to trying to fix it. There are two separate problems at hand, and I'm sorry if I got you all confused by talking about both in the same post.
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Not to be condescending or anything, but if you can't find the thermostat on a Fiero, maybe you shouldn't work on the car before you have bought a workshop manual or a haynes manual. If you open the engine bay, the thing is staring you in the face. The thermostat housing is one of the most prominent features on a Fiero engine and the writing on the thermostat cap should have given you a clue that it's part of the coolant system.
I actually do own a Haynes Fiero manual but couldn't find any of my issues in it. Thanks for the tip about the thermostat! We hadn't found the thermostat because we hadn't looked. One problem regarding the thermostat is that I can't open my trunk. Before the trunk became unable to open, I was able to get the right vent off so we could easily maneuver the battery. I don't have a key lock in the trunk as it didn't come with one. We were planning on getting one for it when all of this went down. Pressing the trunk release button on the dash doesn't result in anything; no sound and no open hatch. This was happening to us when we were trying to open it to get the battery out, so we found a video showing how you could unscrew the assembly and use a battery to "hotwire" the relay (probably not the right word, but again, I'm not a mechanic, and I don't even know how I would search to find out the actual word for it) with a dead battery. It did work once or twice, and we could see a little arc from the positive wire to the positive part of the relay. But when I tried opening the trunk when I got home with a new battery inside, it still didn't work. The "hotwire" method no longer arced, it just sparked. And when I say these words, arc and spark, the difference I'm trying to convey is that one had a little arc of electricity that you could see that made a little quiet noise while the other sparked out towards me with sparks of electricity. I checked the fuse box and the fuses were fine. I read that it could be the trunk release solenoid but I'm not sure how to get to it without having the trunk open. Might there be another way to open the trunk? I have a good battery in the car with a now-working alternator, and the vent that covers the battery is in the trunk.
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...where did you fill it with coolant? Overflow bottle? Radiator? Because if you have low coolant, trying to fill the system from those spots without opening the thermostat housing will not work.
Huh, that's strange. We were able to add coolant to the radiator. We filled it straight into the radiator and it drank it up. I'm guessing that's probably not a good thing.
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You describe problems that aren't problems (like the radiator fan not running all the time), situations that are not possible (the car running without any belts installed)
I wasn't saying that the radiator not running all the time was a definite problem. I just said that my non-mechanic brain just assumed that it was one. I apologize for being wrong, but I wasn't trying to confuse anybody. Also, the car did run without any belts installed with assistance. Without assistance, it wouldn't have run. I assume that's what you meant, but I guess there is a chance that my fiero just magically defies physics.
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So in order for us to help you, please start by making a photo of your engine and the "fixes" you have done so far and post it here.
Alright, can do. I haven't done any fixes for this particular problem as I'm still trying to figure out why my trunk won't open. For the trunk, I've tried doing a "hotwire" method which worked initially but not anymore. For the overheating, I've just put the belts back on. Wasn't a fix, just a hope. Here is a link to the video I watched that gave me the "hotwire" ing method: Unlock Pontiac Fiero trunk without keys. 1984 SE | Tom Jackson. I've also attached some labeled photos to hopefully help you all understand my situation better.
Trunk release relay that sparks:
Lack of trunk key mechanism and broken brake light cover and diffuser:
New belts and taken off vent:
Thanks for the response! It has helped me dearly. And again, I'm sorry for being confusing.
I think there's been a miscommunication (more likely multiple).
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Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: What I'm saying is that he claims he has been driving the car for quite some time without belts - which is not possible.
I'm not sure we have the same idea of short trips. It took about two five to ten-minute trips to get it off the interstate and into a parking lot. Once we got it there, we took the battery home to charge it. It then took one ten to fifteen-minute trip to get it from there to home. By then, it was smoking extremely bad out of the vents and the battery was nearly dead.
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Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Again, I agree, but he said he made a few short trips. Without a charging alternator, you would notice other problems very, very soon. That does not take hours.
It was only around 20 to 35 minutes of driving. I could very easily tell that the battery was dying as I could barely see my dash lights in the evening.
Hamfiero: One problem regarding the thermostat is that I can't open my trunk.
Immediately STOP driving the car! You MUST open the engine bay to fill the coolant system!
The Fiero coolant filling procedure is From the Thermostat Housing - NOT at the radiator. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit - To me, I believe it is too late and this V6 engine is very nearly dead from critical errors............
[This message has been edited by Vintage-Nut (edited 02-04-2024).]
I think there's been a miscommunication (more likely multiple).
It was only around 20 to 35 minutes of driving. I could very easily tell that the battery was dying as I could barely see my dash lights in the evening.
Hopefully, this clears some things up.
Very much so, in your picture of the battery vent cover, you can see the thermostat cap, nice and shiny, that is where you need to fill up your coolant, the Fiero has 3 high spots joined by tubes underneath the car, the engine, radiator, and passenger heater, that is why you need to fill out from the engine with the nose Ponting downhill, as the engine is the highest point, and just filling the radiator will literally just fill the radiator, simply refilling it properly will likely fully solve your problem. If not, or if more new leaks are discovered, that's what we're for!
You can probably fill it without opening the trunk, just use a flexible funnel and don't get coolant on the paint. As for the misunderstandings, your technical knowledge is growing, and with it your ability to better describe your symptoms and problems has led to us getting confused from the differences between your first and last posts, this is a learning process. I live in a highly French area, so I have to plow through incorrect terminology and missing words all the time, I'd like to think I've gotten pretty good at it haha!
Immediately STOP driving the car! You MUST open the engine bay to fill the coolant system!
The Fiero coolant filling procedure is From the Thermostat Housing - NOT at the radiator.
AGREED!
Hamfiero. Your radiator is "full" but the top half of your engine is not. The thermostat housing is the "high point" of the cooling system. How the car ever ran without overheating before is beyond me.
Perhaps what little coolant you have in the system is weak and has slushed up/frozen in the cold adding to your problem.
The less I now say in this truly bizarre thread, probably the better... but if the OP had bothered to actually read my post Here (instead of quickly dismissing it), he would've realized that there's no way his cooling system has enough coolant in it. No wonder it's overheating!
SIMPLE things to check / fix for with overheating issues:
1. Replace the pressure cap on the radiator at the front of the car.
2. Check / replace the belt on the water pump at the rear of the car.
3. Check for crushed coolant pipes under the car. Like someone mentioned, mechanics (or curbs) sometimes dent or deform these which may affect water flow.
4. Open the thermostat cap on the engine block and remove the thermostat. While out, start the engine and see if coolant is circulating through the block. Flow should be fairly vigorous. If not, consider replacing your water pump. Some pumps had plastic impellers that when they get hot, deform and slip on the shaft.
5. Replace your thermostat with a 180°F unit. Stock is 195°F.
6. Drain and flush your cooling system. Refill with a 50/50 mix of antifreeze & distilled water (buy it at the grocery store). You can top off if needed with clean water from the tap, but I recommend a refill using a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and distilled water. If the caps are sealing properly, you shouldn't have to top up (unless you’ve blown a head gasket but that's another, more serious problem.)
7. Follow the directions in the Ogre's Cave (https://fierocave.shorturl.com/) for refilling the cooling system and venting the heater. Some will disagree with me, but I get best results by modifying Ogre's step 2 instructions for filling with these changes: a. I make sure the front of the car is lower than the rear. I have a steep driveway so i park with the nose pointing down and chock the front wheels securely. You can accomplish the same thing by raising the rear (both sides) and supporting it on jack stands. I'd go for at least 12 inches. b. With the front cap off, I slowly fill with the premix from the rear until coolant begins to come from the open radiator cap. At that time, securely tighten the cap. Make sure the plastic catch can and the hose from the radiator are connected. You shouldn't have to, but I add a quart of coolant in there just to ease my mind. c. Follow Ogre's steps from step 3.
8. Your radiator fan should run when you turn on the A/C. Also, it will run when the fan control switch on the block calls for the fan to run. Check the switch and connector. After 40 years, these things fail. Test the switch by unplugging the single wire to the switch and grounding it to the engine with the ignition on. It should start the fan. If not consider replacing with a new switch. BTW, the stock switch activates at ~235°F. When you install the switch, don’t use Teflon tape or sealant. These can insulate the switch from the engine block causing the fan never to run.
Good luck.
------------------ Mike in Sydney
Edited for spelling and clarity...
[This message has been edited by Mike in Sydney (edited 02-05-2024).]
If you still have busted taillights in the next few months, I may have a spare set for you. They have a couple of cracks, but they're complete. You can have them for free, just pay for shipping. It'll be a couple of months though.
Edit - To me, I believe it is too late and this V6 engine is very nearly dead from critical errors...
Could be, but these engines are surprisingly durable sometimes, if it was driven only 20-30 minutes, it could be perfectly fine after being refilled and any leaks fixed, like I said earlier, my dad's '89 Cutlass Ciera had the block heater fall out last winter, drove 10 minutes home with NO coolant in the engine, then temporarily repaired it which lasted a day or so, then broke again then 30 minutes to the garage with NO coolant to get the proper part (somehow had it in stock, expensive but fast). So 40 minutes total with NO coolant, all that was broken up max 5-10 minutes at a time, in the dead of winter up north here, -35 to -25 Celsius depending on the day, lots of airflow, temp warning light never even came on (because we were careful, not because the sensor wasn't sensing temp properly). That car is still going strong, the only thing that will kill it is rust, everything else seems to be fixable or avoidable with proper maintenance. On the other hand, there is a fine line between a healthy car with no coolant and an unhealthy car with no coolant, that line is very hard to discern, and has severe problems once crossed, so until the coolant is refilled and all the immediate problems are dealt with, it is impossible to tell whether it has survived well, gotten some damage, or has some major warping/problems.
Alright, can do. I haven't done any fixes for this particular problem as I'm still trying to figure out why my trunk won't open. For the trunk, I've tried doing a "hotwire" method which worked initially but not anymore.
Check your fuses. You may have blown one with all the "hotwiring" .
Originally posted by Mike in Sydney: Check your fuses. You may have blown one with all the "hotwiring" .
Thanks for the reply! This was my first thought as well and all of the fuses ended up being fine. I even tried switching the trunk fuse with a known good replacement, and it still wouldn't open.
I said this a paragraph or so before where you quoted me:
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The "hotwire" method no longer arced, it just sparked. And when I say these words, arc and spark, the difference I'm trying to convey is that one had a little arc of electricity that you could see that made a little quiet noise while the other sparked out towards me with sparks of electricity. I checked the fuse box and the fuses were fine. I read that it could be the trunk release solenoid but I'm not sure how to get to it without having the trunk open. Might there be another way to open the trunk? I have a good battery in the car with a now-working alternator, and the vent that covers the battery is in the trunk.
If you still have busted taillights in the next few months, I may have a spare set for you. They have a couple of cracks, but they're complete. You can have them for free, just pay for shipping. It'll be a couple of months though.
Thanks a bunch for the consideration! I'll make sure to contact you if we can't find a local replacement by then. I believe we saw someone parting out their fiero on facebook close by, but I'm not sure what they still have and how much they'll charge.
Filling the cooling system on the Fiero is a very exotic/unique experience....Normally on regular cars, you fill it at the radiator cap, and then add a bit to the overflow tank.
The Fiero radiator is very short/low to fit under the low hood, so a large part of the engine/cooling system in the back of the car is above that cap....Here is a diagram- look at the difference in height.....you definitely need to get the trunk lid open so you can properly fill the system.
And don't mind the confusion...most of us are getting older and crotchety-er so we tend to complain if someone doesn't say it exactly the way we would say it....Heck, I'm so old I can't reNember my name most of the time (Sometimes that actually makes me happy)
[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 02-05-2024).]
