Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions
  Period-appropriate swaps

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


next newest topic | next oldest topic
Period-appropriate swaps by 842m4SE
Started on: 10-09-2021 04:05 AM
Replies: 20 (397 views)
Last post by: MarkS on 10-18-2021 08:55 PM
842m4SE
Member
Posts: 59
From: CA
Registered: Sep 2020


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post10-09-2021 04:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 842m4SEClick Here to Email 842m4SESend a Private Message to 842m4SEEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looking for some ideas/suggestions about what would be some good Fiero swaps from its approximate time period - so no LS4s. 3.4 DOHC and 3800NA, as well as of course the chevy v8s come to mind. What other possible options are there?
Not bored with the Duke, but it'll probably end up being swapped eventually. Just want to make sure it'll be something fitting the car's personality and time period.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
82-T/A [At Work]
Member
Posts: 18782
From: Florida USA
Registered: Aug 2002


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 186
Rate this member

Report this Post10-09-2021 09:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 842m4SE:

Looking for some ideas/suggestions about what would be some good Fiero swaps from its approximate time period - so no LS4s. 3.4 DOHC and 3800NA, as well as of course the chevy v8s come to mind. What other possible options are there?
Not bored with the Duke, but it'll probably end up being swapped eventually. Just want to make sure it'll be something fitting the car's personality and time period.



There was a pretty cool little 2.0 liter engine that had a Turbo on it. I think it was on the Sunbird.

Here's the motor:




So, not the most amazing thing in the world, it only had 165hp / 175ft-lbs in stock form. But because it's a Turbo, you have a lot of room to grow with it.

It used an Opel 2.0 OHC motor with a Garret Turbocharger. They were pretty reliable, and they usually lasted for a LOT of miles.

There is a 2.2 and a 2.4 liter version of the motor (not to be confused with the TwinCam / Quad-4). If I remember correctly, the 2.2 and 2.4 can be swapped into the same engine bay, replacing the 2.2 with pretty much everything bolting back on "as is."

It's super easy to get around 225hp without a lot of effort, and it looks pretty cool. That's not fantastic, but if you have an 84 Fiero, it'll LOOK original-ish, and still be a lot of fun. I can only speculate, but maybe mid / low 14s?


Otherwise, you can do a Twin Cam or Quad-4 swap, which a lot of people do.

3800 is a lot of fun, I've been in several of them and the car performs really well... but it does add weight to the rear, and the handling does become... "different" than what you expect in your Duke right now (where you can carelessly toss it around with wanton abandon).

IP: Logged
fieroguru
Member
Posts: 11636
From: Champaign, IL
Registered: Aug 2003


Feedback score:    (45)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 257
Rate this member

Report this Post10-09-2021 10:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
2.0 Turbo: it actually was installed in some 88 Fieros post dealer and marketed at a Delta-204T or the Michael Andretti Special.


SD4 4 cyl: it is part of the FIero racing history.


3.4 Twin Dual Cam (LQ1): This engine was going to be a future option for the Fiero. It was made started in 1991, but does have some connection to the Fiero.



The next group doesn't have any link to the Fiero, just from the same period and have already been swapped into a Fiero:
Quad 4 2.3L: was introduced in late 87 and looks good in a fiero engine bay - several swaps have been done.


3.8 (Vin 3): period correct used in many FWD cars of the era, looks similar to the grand national 3.8.


5.7 TPI: GMs performance V8 from the FIero era


IP: Logged
Warlordsix
Member
Posts: 150
From:
Registered: Apr 2016


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post10-09-2021 10:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WarlordsixClick Here to Email WarlordsixSend a Private Message to WarlordsixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A Cadillac 4.9 is perfect. Debuted as a 4.1 sometime around '84. Bumped up later to 4.9. Easy swap, and huge fun.

Ernie

------------------
'87 Fiero 4.9 5-speed

IP: Logged
IMSA GT
Member
Posts: 9266
From: Smogfornia
Registered: Aug 2007


Feedback score:    (8)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 248
Rate this member

Report this Post10-09-2021 11:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTClick Here to Email IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hate to mention the negative but since I live in your state, you plan on getting this smogged?
IP: Logged
842m4SE
Member
Posts: 59
From: CA
Registered: Sep 2020


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post10-09-2021 12:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 842m4SEClick Here to Email 842m4SESend a Private Message to 842m4SEEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by IMSA GT:

Hate to mention the negative but since I live in your state, you plan on getting this smogged?


She's smogged with the Duke already, I suppose a cat setup will have to be included in the fab exhaust though. I'm assuming this period of engines would have smog equipment?
IP: Logged
RWDPLZ
Member
Posts: 14595
From: Michigan
Registered: May 2002


Feedback score:    (11)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 295
Rate this member

Report this Post10-09-2021 12:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
An engine swap will immediately fail visual inspection in California, even if it pollutes less than the original. Only exception would be a 3.4 93-95 Firebird engine in a Fiero that originally had a 2.8 V6, if it still has a Fiero intake and distributor (although there have been horror stories about V6 Fieros failing because dumbass inspectors thought the Holley throttle body wasn't stock).
IP: Logged
842m4SE
Member
Posts: 59
From: CA
Registered: Sep 2020


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post10-09-2021 01:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 842m4SEClick Here to Email 842m4SESend a Private Message to 842m4SEEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RWDPLZ:

An engine swap will immediately fail visual inspection in California, even if it pollutes less than the original. Only exception would be a 3.4 93-95 Firebird engine in a Fiero that originally had a 2.8 V6, if it still has a Fiero intake and distributor (although there have been horror stories about V6 Fieros failing because dumbass inspectors thought the Holley throttle body wasn't stock).


From my research in CA you just have to make sure the engine is the same year or newer and has all the smog equipment installed, and then getting inspection from the Referree Station.
Source: https://jagsthatrun.com/pag...california-smog-laws
If I'm wrong somebody please correct me.
IP: Logged
Gall757
Member
Posts: 10796
From: Holland, MI
Registered: Jun 2010


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 89
Rate this member

Report this Post10-12-2021 11:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 842m4SE:

If I'm wrong somebody please correct me.


If you are right, there are years of mis-information posts on this website that need correcting.
IP: Logged
cvxjet
Member
Posts: 2743
From: ca, usa
Registered: May 2010


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post10-12-2021 11:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I swapped a 5.0 FI engine into a 1973 mach 1.......In California; And then I died!

Actually, the rules are; Must be same year or later, must have ALL smog equipment connected and functional, must have no codes, and then you take it to a referee station and get certified (The car, not the owner)

Interestingly (And amazingly) CA did NOT require a CAT on my Mustang because the car was not designed for one and may cause fire.......



Also, I can vouch for the 2.8 to 3.4 long block conversion- only 20 hp more but at lower RPM so it's like having a better gear ratio; My Fiero now gets to 60 in 6.5 seconds and does the quarter in 14.8.....And it has passed smog for the last 7 times (Engine swapped in 1999) (Fails were an old CAT and then a bad ICM)

The 3.4 is actually a LEGAL swap in CA- GM only made the 60* V6 replacement blocks in the 3.4 size and was able to get it certified in CA.

[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 10-12-2021).]

IP: Logged
gjgpff
Member
Posts: 61
From: Orange, CA
Registered: Jun 2020


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post10-12-2021 12:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gjgpffSend a Private Message to gjgpffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:


If you are right, there are years of mis-information posts on this website that need correcting.


In particular if you have manual transmission and wish to register the swapped car in California, the popular 3800sc is not an option because GM never offered (I am 99% sure) it with a manual transmission so the emission control associated with the auto trans feedback cannot be implemented. Fortunately GM did put the 3800 NA into a few Camaros with (longitudinal) manual transmissions. Motors of this ilk can be mated transversely to a 5 speed F23 transaxle and should pass California emissions. However I'm not completely sure how feasible it is to find such a motor, or if any Series II 3800NA is acceptable because there existed examples of Series II 3800NAs in manual camaros.

Additionally the Ecotec family: L61 2.2L, LE5 2.4L, LNF 2.0L (turbo), and LNG 2.0L (supercharged) can all be mated to an F23 and mounted in a Fiero and pass a California referee.

I kind of hesitate to send this out because I've never done a swap myself, so hopefully this thread will evolve until we have solid and useful information in it.

And that article should be titled "Don't Worry, They Aren't that Bad, IF YOU HAVE AN AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION!"

[This message has been edited by gjgpff (edited 10-12-2021).]

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
87_special
Member
Posts: 207
From: San Diego, CA
Registered: Oct 2006


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post10-14-2021 06:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87_specialClick Here to Email 87_specialSend a Private Message to 87_specialEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You also are required to run the engine with the proper ecm/pcm. OBD2 or 96+ engines have to use obd2 pcm. The smog referee must be able to plug into ALDL, connect, and scan for trouble codes. That would mean aftermarket stand-alones are no bueno for smog. It also means that I can't drop in a 3900 lz9 with my getrag and run it obd1 with a 7730 ecm. Which is exactly what I want to do.
IP: Logged
Rickady88GT
Member
Posts: 10081
From: Central CA
Registered: Dec 2002


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 201
Rate this member

Report this Post10-14-2021 07:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Cosworth
https://www.americancarcoll...-buy-a-cosworth-vega

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 10-14-2021).]

IP: Logged
reinhart
Member
Posts: 735
From: Orange County, CA
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post10-15-2021 02:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for reinhartClick Here to Email reinhartSend a Private Message to reinhartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Isn't there an allowance for custom built cars in CA (or any state)? I mean does a car *have* to be built by a professional auto manufacturer to be driven on a public highway? I can't imagine we're that draconian.

Suppose I make my own car from scratch. Build a frame, engine, etc. There's no way it can be registered and driven in CA? I have a had time believing that.

Assuming there is a way to do that, then there should be a way to get any car with any engine registered to drive in CA.
IP: Logged
ericjon262
Member
Posts: 2866
From: everywhere.
Registered: Jan 2010


Feedback score:    (10)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 64
Rate this member

Report this Post10-17-2021 03:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Being that the Twin dual cam LQ1 (TDC, 3.4 DOHC ect) was introduced in 91, only a few years after Fiero production ended, I would say it's still a period correct swap.

The other cool "swap" that could be very period correct, would be to get some of the old school performance 2.8 parts that were produced by Falconer and others in the 80's. There are some wicked cool ITB setups floating around still that would look absolutely wild under the deck of a Fiero. That being said, that sort of stuff won't be emissions compliant.

Another option would be the Gen II 60V6, might be a little bit more difficult to nail the look though, as the badging on the intake will be upside down when viewed from the rear.

------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

IP: Logged
fierofool
Member
Posts: 12239
From: Auburn, Georgia USA
Registered: Jan 2002


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 153
Rate this member

Report this Post10-17-2021 10:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
One of the engines being overlooked that can be swapped in and meet visual inspection is the 3.1 V6. The Chevy Lumina APV is the same block as the 2.8 and 3.4. Same HP as the 2.8 but much more torque, and there's no need to drill and tap for starter relocation. It's already on the proper side. I'm running one in my 86SE. It will burn rubber on my 45 series 17 inch tires.
IP: Logged
BillS
Member
Posts: 610
From:
Registered: Apr 2000


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post10-17-2021 05:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BillSClick Here to Email BillSSend a Private Message to BillSEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is there some magic to using an engine that was around back when the Fiero was new?

If not, there is one engine that would work well - it is a Pontiac and it is a 4 cylinder.

Dial up anything from 170 to 500+ bhp. And they came in Cobalts in transverse configuration.
IP: Logged
pmbrunelle
Member
Posts: 3973
From: Grand-Mère, Québec
Registered: Sep 2008


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 58
Rate this member

Report this Post10-17-2021 05:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BillS:
Is there some magic to using an engine that was around back when the Fiero was new?


Yes. Fieros are interesting (to me) because they're vintage. If you modernise it too much, you lose the old-car appeal.

 
quote
Originally posted by BillS:
If not, there is one engine that would work well - it is a Pontiac and it is a 4 cylinder.


That's a corporate engine, and it's not period-correct.
IP: Logged
Daryl M
Member
Posts: 618
From: Wittmann, Arizona, USA
Registered: Aug 2016


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post10-17-2021 06:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Cadillac HT came out at 4.1l , 4.5l and 4.9l. It makes reasonable hp and tons of torque, and it is within 10 pounds of the 2.8l that came in the Fiero, so your handling will be about the same. It is period and there are many still around. Well worth considering.
IP: Logged
olejoedad
Member
Posts: 14916
From: Clarendon Twp., MI
Registered: May 2004


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 195
Rate this member

Report this Post10-17-2021 06:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The Fiero engine bay was designed around a transverse aluminum V-8 engine from the very beginning.
This isn't a myth, or an urban legend.
I was told this to my face on separate occasions by both Hulki and John Callies.

At the time the Fiero was being designed, the only transfers aluminum V-8 in the GM lineup was the HT4100.

IP: Logged
MarkS
Member
Posts: 467
From: Flemington, NJ
Registered: Mar 2006


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post10-18-2021 08:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MarkSClick Here to Email MarkSSend a Private Message to MarkSEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:


3.8 (Vin 3): period correct used in many FWD cars of the era, looks similar to the grand national 3.8.





This was what I wanted to do when I had my 86 4spd., sometimes I regret not finishing it. I still have the engine and all the parts sooo who knows, maybe I will one day.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/107335.html

------------------
1965 Tempest 400 CID
2018 Chevy Colorado Z71 3.6
2017 BMW X3 3.0 T
2015 BMW 535iX M Sport
2008 G6 GT "Street" Coupe 200K miles
2005 Buick 3.6 Rendezvous 225K miles

[This message has been edited by MarkS (edited 10-18-2021).]

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot

next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock