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Fan switch sensor removal??? by branger
Started on: 09-19-2021 01:35 PM
Replies: 26 (354 views)
Last post by: branger on 10-12-2021 11:05 PM
branger
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Report this Post09-19-2021 01:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for brangerClick Here to Email brangerSend a Private Message to brangerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok, determined that rad over heating is because of fan switch not working. Guy on YouTube shows how to remove it, however he doesn’t show how to remove 90 degree metal vacuum hose that is right above it and in the way. I pulled off the rubber part of the vacuum hose, but the metal elbow that runs right under the plenum is right above it! Help! How do I remove metal hose? Do I have to remove whole plenum? Hope not…

[This message has been edited by branger (edited 09-19-2021).]

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fierofool
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Report this Post09-19-2021 02:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm able to move my tube around a little, but you might try a wobble head extension to get to your socket.

Ground your harness plug to the engine with ignition on to see if the fan comes on. It may also be the fan relay up front.

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 09-19-2021).]

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Report this Post09-19-2021 02:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You can also test your fan by turning on the AC, whether the AC is charged, or not. You can use that function to force cool the engine any time you might get into a situation that could cause overheating.
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cvxjet
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Report this Post09-19-2021 02:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That is the vacuum line to your brake boost......Mine is just lose so if you undo both ends you can shift it out of the way. The pipe comes out on the front side of the engine thru the gap in the manifold.

[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 09-19-2021).]

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branger
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Report this Post09-19-2021 04:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for brangerClick Here to Email brangerSend a Private Message to brangerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I did ground it, and the fan runs, so I think it’s the sensor switch. Thanks, for the pic! And explanation… do I have to take the plenum off as is the case in the pic you sent or can I simply push it forward?

[This message has been edited by branger (edited 09-19-2021).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post09-19-2021 04:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by branger:

...do I have to take the plenum off as is the case in the pic you sent or can I simply push it forward?


Only if you're bored silly and you're looking for work.

Why are you removing the fan switch? Do you have a replacement? The one you should order is the 210° on / 200° off switch from Rodney.

By the way, please don't start new threads on basically the same topic. IMO, you should've continued this conversation in your original thread... Overheating. Multiple threads on the same topic clutters up the forum and results in the same info being repeated. In other words, it's a waste of time and space.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 09-19-2021).]

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branger
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Report this Post09-19-2021 05:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for brangerClick Here to Email brangerSend a Private Message to brangerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey Patrick, from what I understand, it’s the switch sensor, as I grounded it with ignition on and fan kicked in right away. Cancelled the stock one I ordered from Fiero store, and got the 210/200 one from Rodney’s. Thanks for the tip.

[This message has been edited by branger (edited 09-19-2021).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post09-19-2021 06:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by branger:

Cancelled the stock one I ordered from Fiero store, and got the 210/200 one from Rodney’s. Thanks for the tip.


Good move. It works well.

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Report this Post09-19-2021 06:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for skywurzClick Here to visit skywurz's HomePageSend a Private Message to skywurzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That vac tube is suppose to be held in with a 8mm (i think) bolt into the plenum... from the under side... its not suppose to be loose.
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branger
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Report this Post09-19-2021 07:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for brangerClick Here to Email brangerSend a Private Message to brangerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Love this forum, great feedback! Thanks everyone.
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branger
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Report this Post10-10-2021 07:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for brangerClick Here to Email brangerSend a Private Message to brangerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Good move. It works well.


Hey Patrick, finally got the 210 fan switch from Dickman's…. Doesn’t even come close to fitting. I have the 1986 2M6…. Advice? Check the attached pic…

[This message has been edited by branger (edited 10-10-2021).]

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Report this Post10-10-2021 08:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by branger:

Hey Patrick, finally got the 210 fan switch from Dickman's…. Doesn’t even come close to fitting. I have the 1986 2M6…. Advice?


It's been a few years since I've installed Rodney's fan switches in a couple of my Fieros (a 2.5 and a 2.8), so I can't say for sure whether they looked exactly like what you've posted there... but what is the problem? Doesn't that new switch fit in the hole?

I can't imagine Rodney would've started supplying fan switches that no longer fit. Makes no sense!

These are the images from Rodney's site. How is your situation different?

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-10-2021).]

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Xenoblast
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Report this Post10-10-2021 10:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for XenoblastClick Here to Email XenoblastSend a Private Message to XenoblastEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by branger:

Hey Patrick, finally got the 210 fan switch from Dickman's…. Doesn’t even come close to fitting. I have the 1986 2M6…. Advice? Check the attached pic…



I have the same fan switch, yes its supposed to look like that. The threads are the same so just screw it in and dont think about the sensor size difference
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Report this Post10-11-2021 12:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SkybaxSend a Private Message to SkybaxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Correct, the aftermarket fan switch bottom that touches the antifreeze is larger that original (thread size same) and that 210 fan switch is actually closer to 215 ON and 205 OFF which I like even better (original is 235 ON). Its also worth noting, most folks use a 180 stat with that 210 fan switch, but you can still use the stock 195 stat. The 180 stat will average only slightly cooler temps (5 to 10 degrees) and slightly richer mixture than 195 stat, which is exactly what I want on my 36 year old engine approaching 100k miles with carbon buildup, and fans never let temps exceed 215.
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Patrick
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Report this Post10-11-2021 03:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Skybax:

Its also worth noting, most folks use a 180 stat with that 210 fan switch, but you can still use the stock 195 stat.


"Most"? I've never seen a poll done on that (I and many others who've posted here prefer the 195° thermostat)... but I think we can all agree that this 210° fan switch is superior to the factory one in regards to keeping coolant temperatures under control.

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Report this Post10-11-2021 10:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by branger:

Hey Patrick, finally got the 210 fan switch from Dickman's…. Doesn’t even come close to fitting. I have the 1986 2M6…. Advice? Check the attached pic…
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
These are the images from Rodney's site. How is your situation different?
My only issue is because much larger vs OE and No-one looked at the intake when installed or check engine temps other then watching Dash Gauge or scan ECM data stream.

Why?
That bulk may restrict coolant flow to one head and block (the front/left side I think) making them hotter then the other.
1. Dash gauges are famous for lying to start and lean heavy to front/left because of sender location.
2. ECM ECT reads coolant output at T-stat and doesn't see hot spots.
3. You can bet that RD and any others selling them Did Not bother to check this.

Yes, "back then" first started selling this cheap IR units and Bore Scope Cameras didn't exist but getting other contact thermometers was easy and often cheap to get yet no-one spend the money or time to check the engine before and after they install that...

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)


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branger
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Report this Post10-11-2021 03:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for brangerClick Here to Email brangerSend a Private Message to brangerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So one important point to note when I installed the newer one, with the thicker brass bottom. It did not seem to fit as the base was thicker and I didn’t realize both original and replacement had the same thread size/diameter. I think with the fatter brass base, there was no room for coolant displacement. I then, took some paper towel and took some coolant out and new sensor fit fine. Hopefully it will do the trick. I’m gonna wait 24 hours for the thread sealant to harden before testing. 🤞
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Patrick
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Report this Post10-11-2021 04:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by branger:

I think with the fatter brass base, there was no room for coolant displacement. I then, took some paper towel and took some coolant out and new sensor fit fine.


You couldn't push the switch down and displace half a teaspoon of coolant? Time to hit the gym!
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branger
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Report this Post10-12-2021 12:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for brangerClick Here to Email brangerSend a Private Message to brangerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a tendency of breaking things, like over torquing things, every time I try to force something… broken. I’d rather be cautious, then replace a stripped out whatever…. My first three wheeler, after oil change, stripped out the oil pan plug in about 4 seconds… maybe hit the gym too much. Lol.
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Report this Post10-12-2021 08:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I wholly agree with Patrick on using the 195 thermostat. It allows the engine to run in its proper temp range and go into closed loop. In open loop the ecm is feeding a much richer fuel mixture.

The switch and thermostat combo resolved my overheating issue on a V6 with partially crushed coolant tubes.

If you can find one, get the Stant Super Stat. Better quality.
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Report this Post10-12-2021 04:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SkybaxSend a Private Message to SkybaxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofool:

I wholly agree with Patrick on using the 195 thermostat. It allows the engine to run in its proper temp range and go into closed loop. In open loop the ecm is feeding a much richer fuel mixture.



That's a popular misconception, with 180 stat the engine still runs at proper temps, the system only in OPEN LOOP until following:

1) The O2 sensor has a varying voltage output, showing that it is hot (600 degrees F) enough to operate properly.
2) The coolant sensor is above a specified temperature for CLOSED LOOP (usually 135 to 150 degrees F).
3) A specific amount of time has elapsed after starting the engine (usually 2.5 minutes).

Like I mentioned in my original post above, there is very little difference between 180 and 195 stat...

1) The 180 stat will open a little sooner than 195 after its in CLOSED LOOP (150).
2) While it opens at 180 temp, it will only run "slightly cooler" operating temps (190 to 200 in summer, 185 to 195 spring/fall) under normal driving conditions.
3) Engine runs only "slightly richer" which is exactly what I want on my 36 year old engine with 80k carbon on combustion components (acts like sponge).

NOTE: Engine temps will climb in hot summer weather sitting at red light regardless if you have 195 or 180 stat, that's when 210 fan switch kicks fans on at 215 and turn off at 205 instead of the factory 235 switch, which again is exactly what I want on my 36 year old engine with 36 year old head gaskets. In regards to the 210 fan switch bottom portion being larger in the coolant passage than original 235 switch, there is still plenty of room/flow around it, somebody posted a photo 18 years ago but its probably in the black hole of the internet now.

I was an engine tune-up technician for all makes and models in the 80's when you had points/condenser, computerized carburetion, and modern SFI/DI systems all on the road at the same time (the only decade in over 100 years of automobiles to have that triple combo). That was my full-time occupation 60 hours a week, setting up engines to run optimal (using those old SUN Engine Analyzers) to maximize performance and fuel economy (job title: Engine Performance Specialist). The 3 GT's that I've personally owned including my current one are all meticulously tuned to perfection to high standards, and they all run better than new averaging 22 mpg on hilly suburban/country roads with lots of shifting and stop signs/lights and all run 180 stats (86 GT V6 4-sp originally rated at 17 mpg city and 24 mpg hwy) so it is impossible for all of them to be running too rich to provide those stellar results.

---------

PS: On a loosely related subject while I'm thinking about it, for those looking for insight/suggestions on optimal oil, I only run Valvoline Max Life "High-Mileage" Syn/Dino Blend 10w30 in my old original 2.8 V6 engine for many reasons (one of the best oils out there, check out bobistheoilguy)...

1) 10w30 is unaltered unlike 5w30 and 10w40
2) The 10w30 gives a little better protection for hot summer weather on older higher mileage engine
3) Valvoline Max Life "High Mileage" has the proper balanced higher phosphorus/zinc (600/800) ideal for Fiero 2.8 V6 flat tappet camshaft with catalytic convertor, because the "non-high-mileage" levels are too low. Older pre-1974 flat tappet camshaft engines without catalytic convertors (especially high performance) need closer to 1200/1400 ppm so popular oil choices are Brad Penn (PA green oil previously known at Kendall GT1 and now known as Penn Grade 1) or Valvoline VR1. But those 1200/1400 levels are too high/harmful for catalytic convertors and overkill for Fiero 2.8 V6 and most modern oil levels are too low, making the Valvoline Max Life "High-Mileage" Syn/Dino Blend 10w30 ideal for an old Fiero L44 V6. Specs... https://pqia.org/valvoline-...tic-blend-motor-oil/

I realize oil is heavily debated, so basic info above is just a friendly gift to Fiero owners who want good/correct oil for their old 2.8 V6 without 100 hours of research.

[This message has been edited by Skybax (edited 10-12-2021).]

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Report this Post10-12-2021 06:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for XenoblastClick Here to Email XenoblastSend a Private Message to XenoblastEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Skybax:

The 3 GT's that I've personally owned including my current one are all meticulously tuned to perfection to high standards, and they all run better than new averaging 22 mpg on hilly suburban/country roads with lots of shifting and stop signs/lights and all run 180 stats. (86 GT V6 4-sp originally rated at 17 mpg city and 24 mpg hwy

...

1) 10w30 is unaltered unlike 5w30 and 10w40



I run the 210 fan switch with the 195 stat and I get 21 mpg, which is me driving calmly to work in town and also shifting at 5k on mountain roads. Also with the 10w30 is unaltered, what do you mean by that? I run 5w30 and couldnt imagine running any thicker because my oil pressure gets up to 70 psi when cold. Of course my guage could be wrong

[This message has been edited by Xenoblast (edited 10-12-2021).]

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Report this Post10-12-2021 07:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Skybax:


That's a popular misconception, with 180 stat the engine still runs at proper temps, the system only in OPEN LOOP until following:



When I installed a 180 in the 86SE with the crushed pipes, my fuel economy really dropped. It went back up with the 195 thermostat. Maybe It's just me.

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Report this Post10-12-2021 08:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I like the 195 thermostat on the Fiero V6.

I tried a 180 thermostat, and at that temperature the engine seemed to need more accelerator pump, and was less eager to rev.

YMMV.
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Patrick
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Report this Post10-12-2021 09:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Skybax:

That's a popular misconception...


I very much appreciate your very well written comment(s) on thermostats and oil ... but I still challenge you on your following statement, as you've got no feasible way of knowing.

 
quote
Originally posted by Skybax:

...most folks use a 180 stat with that 210 fan switch


Replace "most" with "many" and there's no issue.


Perhaps it's in cooler climates where the advantages are more readily experienced with a 195° thermostat over a 180° one.
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Report this Post10-12-2021 10:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SkybaxSend a Private Message to SkybaxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Xenoblast:

Also with the 10w30 is unaltered, what do you mean by that? I run 5w30 and couldnt imagine running any thicker because my oil pressure gets up to 70 psi when cold. Of course my guage could be wrong



Simple answer = less viscosity improvers and better high temperature high shear (HTHS).

Most Fiero's today are summer weekend hobby cars, not daily drivers that see winter use. 10w30 is good to 0 F on cold start, my non-heated attached garage never goes below 45 F in winter. With a 36 year old 2.8 engine known for rod bearing failures I'm more confident with the MaxLife 10w30 High-Mileage specs.

The specific oil needs for every engine is very different (original design, modifications, age, mileage, etc). My daily driver is a 2005 Ford 2.0 Duratech that uses whatever 5w20 is on sale. My 67 Mustang has a modified 289 with 300 horsepower that was built in 1983 with 9000 miles on it, so I use Valvoline 20w50 VR1 in it because that is the ideal oil for that specific engine... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWw_BDJd8FI

Back to the Fiero 2.8 V6, you can spend hundreds of hours reading oil chemistry, its endless, here are just 2 quick examples...

https://bobistheoilguy.com/...344948/#post-5862959

https://bobistheoilguy.com/...w30-vs-10w30.336060/

Sorry to derail, oil is a very deep science, back to your regular scheduled programming...

[This message has been edited by Skybax (edited 10-12-2021).]

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branger
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Report this Post10-12-2021 11:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for brangerClick Here to Email brangerSend a Private Message to brangerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Good topic, wish parts were also more available in Canada.

[This message has been edited by branger (edited 10-12-2021).]

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