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Paddle shifting the 4T65E by phonedawgz
Started on: 05-23-2021 01:12 AM
Replies: 13 (205 views)
Last post by: phonedawgz on 06-06-2021 11:01 AM
phonedawgz
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Report this Post05-23-2021 01:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
4T65E paddle shifting. Since the 4T65E shifts are electronically controlled, and since it can be done, thoughts on converting to manual paddle switching? Ok, a few things come to mind. Arduino controlled, manual/automatic switch somewhere, and programming in the Arduino to make sure I don't blow up the tranny with a shift to a low gear while moving at speed. Questions up for discussion - Pressure modulation, any targets other than just let it run full pressure all the time? Next, is how exactly to do the switches at the wheel? A display showing gear would be nice, including lock-up of the TCC. Best way to communicate between the paddle shifter/display and the Arduino? Clock spring or? A clock spring would mean a different steering column.

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OldsFiero
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Report this Post05-23-2021 08:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for OldsFieroClick Here to Email OldsFieroSend a Private Message to OldsFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
06-09 Grand Prix GXP, 06-09 Impala SS, 06-07 Monte Carlo SS, and 08-09 Lacrosse Super had tap shift. Using one of those PCMs would allow you to keep pressure control, trans adaptive pressure strategy, ect.
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post05-23-2021 01:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Paddle shift was an option on the vehicles mentioned. As you may already know not all 4T65eHD transmissions came with it. The paddle shift conversions that I have seen just work with a shift box/panel with a two button switches-one up and one down. I am not sure about the electronics but I would assume that the push button activates an electrical circuit that can only allow shifting one gear at a time.
There is a guy that did it on a Pontiac Fiero. It looks like his control module is based on an Atmel Tiny series microcontroller.
Paddle Shift Fiero
You might try asking him how it was done.


------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 05-23-2021).]

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olejoedad
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Report this Post05-24-2021 09:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The paddle shifted 4T65's were not happy to be run that way, and had problems.

Just FYI.....

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post05-25-2021 08:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

The paddle shifted 4T65's were not happy to be run that way, and had problems.

Just FYI.....


I believe a possible problem with manually shifting an automatic transmission is downshifting or upshifting at improper speeds thereby overloading the clutch packs and bands. You may be able to guard against this in the PCM program but it would require a dual shift mode transmission and quite a bit of experimentation. Since today's automatic transmission are computer controlled they should optimize the shifting points based upon speed and throttle position but some driver still like to shift manually.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Blacktree
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Report this Post05-25-2021 09:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you can find one of the cars with tap-shift, and transfer the PCM and shifter into your car, that should get you most of the way there. The PCM will be programmed for manual shifting. And you can piggyback the paddle shifters onto the upshift / downshift switches. If you can fit the instrument cluster from that vehicle, you'll have the gear display as well.
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OldsFiero
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Report this Post05-25-2021 08:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for OldsFieroClick Here to Email OldsFieroSend a Private Message to OldsFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

If you can find one of the cars with tap-shift, and transfer the PCM and shifter into your car, that should get you most of the way there. The PCM will be programmed for manual shifting. And you can piggyback the paddle shifters onto the upshift / downshift switches. If you can fit the instrument cluster from that vehicle, you'll have the gear display as well.


I agree. That should be the simple way out. I'm sure there are hacks out there so you can fine tune to suit your needs.

Marc
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post05-26-2021 05:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If the OP wants this option I will go along with Blacktree, seek out a Grand Prix GXP that came with this option, remove all of parts from the system including the PCM and transmission and go from there. Be advised that the Tap shift 4T65eHD and the standard 4T65eHD are different. To what degree I do not know but they are two different part numbers. The PCM on the tap shift GXP also included a traction control mode and an engine RPM governor that keeps the engine under the redline. I guess Tap shift could be done with a standard 4T65eHD but couldn't you just do this by using the shift lever?

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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phonedawgz
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Report this Post05-27-2021 08:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's amazing how much times have changed.

Programming Arduinos are a breeze compared to what it was back in the day.

 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

Paddle shift was an option on the vehicles mentioned. As you may already know not all 4T65eHD transmissions came with it. The paddle shift conversions that I have seen just work with a shift box/panel with a two button switches-one up and one down. I am not sure about the electronics but I would assume that the push button activates an electrical circuit that can only allow shifting one gear at a time.
There is a guy that did it on a Pontiac Fiero. It looks like his control module is based on an Atmel Tiny series microcontroller.
Paddle Shift Fiero
You might try asking him how it was done.



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phonedawgz
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Report this Post05-27-2021 08:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The idea of directly controlling the 4T65E is really intriguing me. I do feel that I am going to the point where I will make a stand alone manual controller for my use.
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jdv
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Report this Post05-27-2021 09:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jdvClick Here to Email jdvSend a Private Message to jdvEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Someone did this for the northstar trans. He also did the 7730 conversion for the northstar. I think the t480e.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/...060206-1-049283.html

[This message has been edited by jdv (edited 05-27-2021).]

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phonedawgz
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Report this Post06-05-2021 02:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Anyone do it for the 4T65E?
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Report this Post06-05-2021 07:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jdvClick Here to Email jdvSend a Private Message to jdvEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
From the link i posted
I have been working on a paddle-shifter kit that mounts to the stock fiero steering column, and has the capability of manually shifting the 4t60e, 4t65e, and 4t80e automatic transmissions
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post06-06-2021 11:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok, cool.

I was thinking about using an aftermarket wheel screwed to a stock hub with a plate sandwiched in between for the paddle mounts. I am planning on using a Bluetooth connection between the hub and the controller. I would power the hub circuitry via the horn wire and include a third input on the Bluetooth to retain the horn. Add a cap to cover imperfections in the ring to slider for power dropouts. At least that is my intentions up at the wheel.

I think it would make sense to have secondary paddle buttons on the shifter. Could control it either place and if the Bluetooth connections fail it would be a backup.

I want to include an option for automatic shifting (perhaps), include a function to automatically return the tranny to first when the VSS reaches zero, and lockout functions to prevent from shifting into too low of gear while in motion.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 06-06-2021).]

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