I can't wait to get rid of my 2.8. I still haven't decided what to replace it with yet, but my Fiero is my daily, so something easy that won't keep the car out of service for months at a time. I am wondering what some good sources for engines, or even entire donor cars, are nowadays. Do most people just buy a donor car off of craigslist? The local junkyard (LKQ Wilmington, CA) is IMO overpriced and a junkyard engine seems questionable. Or buy a donor car off of salvage auction?
You can to to Jegs, and get the ATK Engines Remanufactured Crate Engine for 1993-1995 GM F-Body with 3.4L V6 (Part Number: 059-DCC9). This is a Vin Code S engine with iron heads and a 36-month warranty. You will need to swap over some parts and move the starter to the other side of the engine. Alternatively, you could have the 2.8 rebuilt.
Buying an engine from a junkyard is a crap shoot. Can you verify the mileage?? Are you looking for an easy bolt in or an engine swap? At times buying used you can get something very good while at other times you get the shaft. A few years ago I purchased a 4.9L/4T60e powertrain off a 93 Deville with 66K on the OD. I saw the OD on the car and verified the mileage. The junkyard said don't worry "the car ran great" so they pulled the engine out and I installed it. The engine proved to be in very good shape..... but when I tried to run it we found the transmission was blown. I just ordered a rebuilt unit. So out come the cables, water lines, axles, mounts, and the cradle. Unless you can get a powertrain from a running vehicle, hear the engine, and test the trans you are buying in the blind. In my case I purchased cheap ($675 for both) so I guess that I shouldn't be that disappointed.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
I have the 3.4 L F-body swap in my car.....Although the total power change is only 20 HP, the torque goes up 30 and it all happens at lower "R"s....which is like installing a better rear-axle ratio. My Fiero now gets 0-60 in 6.5 seconds and the 1/4 in 14.8...Not very impressive above 60 MPH but startling off the line...
This swap utilizes the stock induction system, the only changes are the oil pan, front cover and starter mount....Rodney makes a jig to drill the starter mounting holes. This is actually a legal swap in CA- GM only makes the 3.4 block to replace all of the 60* V6 blocks (2.8, 3.1, 3.4).
I also went from 22/28 to 20/30 mpg. Been driving it for 20 years with this mod.
I like that it looks stock (I liked the look of the stock engine) but if you do a little runnin' and then can tell them, "It's a Stock Fiero" It kinda blows people's minds......
Wait a minute. Hold on....that crate engine just st bolts right in? Move the starter, attach intake, valve covers, different oil pan and bolt in and done? No rewiring, not messing?
Yep. Almost a direct bolt in. Look in the archive for the 1993-1995 Camaro-Firebird 3.4L V-6 (GM F-Body with 3.4L V6 ). This is a Vin Code S engine with iron heads. This swap uses the stock induction system, the only changes are the oil pan, front cover and starter mount and Rodney Dickman makes a jig to drill the starter mounting holes. No rewiring. Some folks go to the 17lb injectors in lieu of the stock ones. 20 more ponies, 30 more torqs.
If I was doing this swap, I'd be changing the injectors, replacing the motor and transmission mounts, refreshing the bushings in the dogbone, and take the opportunity to replace the alternator with a CS130 unit.
I'm guessing that a DOHC 3.4 would be easier than a 3800 swap because the DOHC is still a 60degree V6. Is that true? The pushrod 3.4 swap sounds okay but I figure if I'm going through the effort of swapping the engine it would be nice to get at least 200 crank hp. Not building a speed demon or anything, though.
The 3.4 F-body Long block swap requires no certification and no wiring or programming modes...Basically plug and >>Go play<<
The 3.4 DOHC requires a lot of modifications, including wiring and programming....And then you have to get it certified.
Mots Fiero V6s tested went 0-60 in 7.5-8.5 seconds......With the 3.4 F-body swap my car is getting to 60 in 6.5 seconds and thru the 1/4 in 14.8.......I will admit that if you are at 70 mph on the freeway and want to do 120 this swap won't blow your mind, but at lower speeds it is a real eye-opener....Several friends and a few acquaintances have ridden in my Fiero and reacted with shock after I have taken off from a stop.
Mots Fiero V6s tested went 0-60 in 7.5-8.5 seconds......With the 3.4 F-body swap my car is getting to 60 in 6.5 seconds and thru the 1/4 in 14.8.......I will admit that if you are at 70 mph on the freeway and want to do 120 this swap won't blow your mind, but at lower speeds it is a real eye-opener....Several friends and a few acquaintances have ridden in my Fiero and reacted with shock after I have taken off from a stop.
I suspect that you could get a bit more ponies out of the 3.4L F-body swap if you changed out the cam and ported the intake and exhaust. How many would you get? 10 - 20, maybe. That may get you into a higher top-end but at what cost? (I would only do this if I was rebuilding a 3.4 that I got from an auto salvage yard. I'd want to rebuild it because it would be at least 27 years old and likely be high mileage.)
A friend once told me about the iron triangle of engine building and rebuilding: Reasonable Cost, Performance, Reliability. Pick any two and the 3rd is going to be at risk.
Look for a 1996-2003 Pontiac GTP/GXP. You can look at Row52.com to search for a car
The L32 3800 is not supercharged but the L67 3800 is. Buy the whole front end. You'll need the engine & may need the axles if you're going to go with the automatic tranny. Upgrade to the 4T65E or 4T65E-HD transmission depending on which engine you choose. Then, you have to have an engine harness modified and a few other bits (engine mounts, exhaust, ECU programming to name a few). Expect the engine to have 100,000 miles or more because it will likely be at least 18 years old so that may drive new injectors, etc.
Expect to invest $4,000 to $6,000 not counting the cost of the used engine and tranny. If you opt to rebuild those before you install them, add $4,000 to $5,000. Done right, the conversion is a real screamer but remember the iron triangle.: Cost, Performance, Reliability. Pick any two.
For more info, look here. I'm not endorsing anyone or anything but there's some information that may be helpful.
[This message has been edited by Mike in Sydney (edited 04-27-2021).]
www.car-parts.com for major assemblies like engines, transmissions and entire powertrains
eBay also has a robust salvage market
www.copart.com for salvage/branded title vehicle auctions. There are other online vehicle auctions, but I think this one is probably the biggest.
Here in California, you can’t just bid on a wrecked car at Copart... you need to go through a broker.
I do have a few questions for you. What year Fiero? Which transmision? What is your objective?
Don’t forget that here in California, any swap needs to be cleared by the good ol’ smog referee. So, unless your donor engine came with a manual trans, you are pretty much limited to an automatic.
Personally, at this point, I would consider an Ecotec swap. Lighter weight will sometimes compensate for little less power and may result in a better balanced car..
steer clear of the 3400 no aftermarket help and not many people who have done the swap to help. 3800 is plentiful but again that market is getting close to the 3800 they stopped making those engine about 12 years ago now. And 3800 requires special procedures when and if you go in and refresh the bearings and internal components. The ecotech is interesting as there is a lot of aftermarket but dont know what would be needed to pass in california at the ref. I have a 3800 took me 1.5 years of weekends building the engine. that is making everything not buying and i only have an automatic engine. my 2cents not worth much really. if in cali go 3.4 from the camaro you will look stock and actually have a higher resale value over he next couple of years as more owners want a 'stock" engine more than a basket case replacement engine the previous owner cut corners on.
Here in California, you can’t just bid on a wrecked car at Copart... you need to go through a broker.
I do have a few questions for you. What year Fiero? Which transmision? What is your objective?
Don’t forget that here in California, any swap needs to be cleared by the good ol’ smog referee. So, unless your donor engine came with a manual trans, you are pretty much limited to an automatic.
Personally, at this point, I would consider an Ecotec swap. Lighter weight will sometimes compensate for little less power and may result in a better balanced car..
I hadn't even considered Ecotec. I'll look into it. I mostly liked 3800 because of the balance between easy install and easy power. I have had an affinity for the 90degree Buick V6s since my first car project; a 1970 Jeepster Commando with the 225 V6 (manufactured by Jeep using Buick tooling, essentially the same engine). The car is an '88 with a 5 speed getrag. I will not be living in California by the time my registration is due, so I luckily do not have to worry about pleasing them.
I hadn't even considered Ecotec. I'll look into it. I mostly liked 3800 because of the balance between easy install and easy power. I have had an affinity for the 90degree Buick V6s since my first car project; a 1970 Jeepster Commando with the 225 V6 (manufactured by Jeep using Buick tooling, essentially the same engine). The car is an '88 with a 5 speed getrag. I will not be living in California by the time my registration is due, so I luckily do not have to worry about pleasing them.
Be sure to check the state in which you will be living. Some have adopted emission retrictions similar to California. Otherwise, you should have come to our “last annual parts, projects, meet & swap meet” last Sunday. You would have seen several swap options in place.
Send me an emal, and I can provide more information.
Be sure to check the state in which you will be living. Some have adopted emission retrictions similar to California. Otherwise, you should have come to our “last annual parts, projects, meet & swap meet” last Sunday. You would have seen several swap options in place.
Send me an emal, and I can provide more information.
Dang that sounds like it would have been cool! Where can I stay updated about events like that?
steer clear of the 3400 no aftermarket help and not many people who have done the swap to help.
While there hasn't been as much development done with the V6/60 as there has been on the 3800, there ARE aftermarket parts available. Check out www.60degreev6.com and the 60 degree V6 Facebook group and www.wot-tech.com
steer clear of the 3400 no aftermarket help and not many people who have done the swap to help.
it also bolts in using clearanced stock mounts. if you wanted to, you could put an 88 fiero timing cover on it, and run stock accessories and the stock dogbone mount. not the way I would do it, but it would work. it's way more straightforward than a 3800, there's a group on FB devoted to 3100, 3400, 3500, and 3900 swaps called "Fiero 3x00 swaps" lots of guys have done it, and continue to do it.
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
it also bolts in using clearanced stock mounts. if you wanted to, you could put an 88 fiero timing cover on it, and run stock accessories and the stock dogbone mount. not the way I would do it, but it would work. it's way more straightforward than a 3800, there's a group on FB devoted to 3100, 3400, 3500, and 3900 swaps called "Fiero 3x00 swaps" lots of guys have done it, and continue to do it.
I think he meant to say the 3.4 DOHC motor, not the 3400. The 3400 motor is a pushrod engine
I think he meant to say the 3.4 DOHC motor, not the 3400. The 3400 motor is a pushrod engine
So which would work with the mentioned clearanced stock mounts and fiero timing cover swap? 3.4DOHC or 3400?
In other news, I may have a lead on a CHEAP series I 3800SC. I'm about to check it out tonight. Owner doesn't have the chipped key, so I might not be able to hear it run before. I've also got to talk the housemates into letting me occupy a driveway spot for a while. I wont start working on the Fiero until I have everything in hand and ready to go. The Fiero is my daily, so I'd like to minimize its down time to less than two weeks if possible. (I hate taking the train to work, but can do it if necessary). I fear this might be unrealistic, especially since this is my first Fiero and my first time removing the cradle.
One thing I've been wondering for any swap is exhaust? I can't weld, nor do I have interest in buying a welder and learning. For the more common swaps, are there any pre-fabricated buy-and-bolt exhausts?
So which would work with the mentioned clearanced stock mounts and fiero timing cover swap? 3.4DOHC or 3400?
In other news, I may have a lead on a CHEAP series I 3800SC. I'm about to check it out tonight. Owner doesn't have the chipped key, so I might not be able to hear it run before. I've also got to talk the housemates into letting me occupy a driveway spot for a while. I wont start working on the Fiero until I have everything in hand and ready to go. The Fiero is my daily, so I'd like to minimize its down time to less than two weeks if possible. (I hate taking the train to work, but can do it if necessary). I fear this might be unrealistic, especially since this is my first Fiero and my first time removing the cradle.
One thing I've been wondering for any swap is exhaust? I can't weld, nor do I have interest in buying a welder and learning. For the more common swaps, are there any pre-fabricated buy-and-bolt exhausts?
LS4 looks good, but may be a challenge for you if you want to complete the swap process relatively quickly.
So which would work with the mentioned clearanced stock mounts and fiero timing cover swap? 3.4DOHC or 3400?
In other news, I may have a lead on a CHEAP series I 3800SC. I'm about to check it out tonight. Owner doesn't have the chipped key, so I might not be able to hear it run before. I've also got to talk the housemates into letting me occupy a driveway spot for a while. I wont start working on the Fiero until I have everything in hand and ready to go. The Fiero is my daily, so I'd like to minimize its down time to less than two weeks if possible. (I hate taking the train to work, but can do it if necessary). I fear this might be unrealistic, especially since this is my first Fiero and my first time removing the cradle.
One thing I've been wondering for any swap is exhaust? I can't weld, nor do I have interest in buying a welder and learning. For the more common swaps, are there any pre-fabricated buy-and-bolt exhausts?
3400 works with clearanced stock mounts, I can't speak for the 3.4DOHC. I would avoid a pre-series 2 3800, they aren't very well supported like the later engines.
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
Alright, so the other day I was skateboarding to O'Reilly Auto to get a new water pump for the 2.8 and on the way back I saw a Bonneville SSEi with about 1/4" of dust on it. Hadn't been driven in ages. Flat tire. Lots of parking tickets in the passenger seat. Expired tags. I left a note on the car asking if he was interested in selling. The next day I ended up buying it from the guy (who seemed like a legit crackhead) for $300. I probably could have offered him half that and gotten it anyways. He had lost the key, so it took me a while to trick VATS and get it started. Engine runs fine, SC whine is a bit loud, so I'll definitely be changing SC oil. Odometer shows 88k, but it didn't increase at all on the 0.7 mile drive home, so who knows how long it was driven around without counting miles. It's a 1992 Series I 3800SC, so only like 205hp, but that's fine for now. I'm excited about the swap and open to any pointers or information about using this particular donor. I won't really be trying to get heaps of power, but just a reliable engine with more guts than the 2.8.
[This message has been edited by statue4 (edited 05-04-2021).]
Alright, so the other day I was skateboarding to O'Reilly Auto to get a new water pump for the 2.8 and on the way back I saw a Bonneville SSEi with about 1/4" of dust on it ...
Nice score! It's almost like your Fiero led you by the hand to its new engine.
Originally posted by FierOmar: Don’t forget that here in California, any swap needs to be cleared by the good ol’ smog referee. So, unless your donor engine came with a manual trans, you are pretty much limited to an automatic.
This is really the worst part. GM's list of decent engines that got paired to a manual transmission is not impressive. It's the thing that keeps me thinking that maybe a GM motor isn't actually the right answer.
For Californians, I keep thinking an interesting swap would be a 1994-1995 Saab 900SE ... it's not super heavy, came with an F25, is OBD1 which gives install flexibility, engine management is stupid easy, and is bolt-on-able to 400hp. Unfortunately intercoolers are just so pesky when it comes to mid-engine cars. :|
I wanted to do an LFX/6T70 swap and considered going to the junk yard. The parts are available but if you get their off the shelf ones the cost is higher and you would still need to source a harness and some modules. So lots of unknowns getting the engine and tranny to operate properly. They also have a pull-it-yourself area but that's a crapshoot as to the condition. I finally became a bidder with IAA which is similar to CoPart. IAA auctions off wrecked cars for insurance companies. In Washington state most auctions can be bid by individuals as well as dealers. This varies state-by-state and you may bot have this option in your location. Then also provide photos and a video of the car running, if it can. I bought a 2018 Impala with 59K miles that was said to be non-running. I looked at the photos and didn't see any damage near the engine & tranny. So I gambled.
It took 3 auctions before the insurance company accepted the high bid. They wanted $3800 for the car and the high bid was about $1500 the first two times. I did not place the winning bid in those auctions. On the third auction they finally decided that they needed to get rid of the car and they removed the reserve price and I was able to win the auction. I found that IAA was very easy to deal with and professional in their delivery of the car. It was in Seattle and I'm in Idaho so a friend picked it up and hauled it over to me.
Turned out to be a good gamble since it did run and I was able to verify there was nothing wrong with the drivetrain. They probably did not press the brake when starting or the battery was low. If the voltage is less than about 11 Volts it won't even try to start. I've spent a month ripping it apart and getting lots of parts to sell to help fund the swap. This isn't the most inexpensive solution since you pay the cost of the car, pay an $200 fee to be able to bid and pay the auction fees. So my $1525 car with all fees ended up being $2560. But I've got everything needed to make it run in the Fiero. Why so cheap for a 2018 car? Well it was said to not start and 5 of the 8 air bags were blown so a dismantler would not be very interested with the valuable bags dead.
Another thing to complicate recent GM swaps is the ECU also needs the Body Controller and maybe more since they all must have the same VIN programmed into each module. This is an anti-theft "feature" since 2018 and makes the electronics even more of a pain. But buying the whole car I have all of them and the complete harness too.
