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4.6 Northstar Swap Project by copperhens
Started on: 10-09-2018 08:09 AM
Replies: 135 (3357 views)
Last post by: fieroguru on 04-07-2021 08:27 PM
copperhens
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Report this Post01-17-2021 07:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What’s this?


Any ideas?


It’s an adapter for the throttle body for the cable to mount to. It has an o ring grove cut on the other side.




There is great throttle travel now. With an accelerator pedal, we were able to test putting it into gear. It does move forward and backwards under its own power. It won’t go into first. We haven’t adjusted anything trans-wise which is prolly the issue. Also, the new cooling system seems to now work with no leaks! The heater core lines heated up, and eventually the radiator got warm, and the fan turned on and off when needed and moves a ton of air.
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copperhens
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Report this Post02-09-2021 07:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
On the 24th I did some more prepping on the passenger side.


Rodneys floor plug in place. My drain plug was missing for whatever reason.


Roof tar to seal it up. Now that the holes were fixed, I could finished the sound deadening.


I got a lot of the deadener in, but ran out for this front part.


On the 31st the car drove two miles home. It is very illegal to drive since it’s not plated, insured, and missing parts so my dad drove it. He said it was super sketchy and one of the scariest things he drove because it needs an alignment so bad, and there are things that just need to be worked on the motor. It drove through deep snow(no salt on the back roads luckily) and did well all things considered.


In our garage... I’ve tried to work on it but even with a heater blowing on the car, it’s too cold for me to work comfortably which really sucks. This garage needs to be installed so bad.

[This message has been edited by copperhens (edited 02-09-2021).]

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copperhens
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Report this Post02-09-2021 08:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I picked up some panels today in Houston from ccfiero350. It was awesome to be able to meet a Fiero person in the Southwest. Thanks for everything, Chuck! It’s an early IMSA that has all of the widebody panels. I’m dreading going back to Michigan because it’s subzero temperatures. This ‘88 is slowly but surely making a lot of progress.


[This message has been edited by copperhens (edited 02-09-2021).]

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Will
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Report this Post02-09-2021 09:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by copperhens:

Rodneys floor plug in place. My drain plug was missing for whatever reason.


Roof tar to seal it up. Now that the holes were fixed, I could finished the sound deadening.




Did you ever grommet that hole?
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copperhens
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Report this Post02-12-2021 04:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Did you ever grommet that hole?


Yes, I did. I pushed the grommet out when I was prepping the area for the sound deadener, I just need to pop it back in.
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copperhens
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Report this Post04-04-2021 12:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
2/28/21
Bad news. The engine started ticking.

https://youtube.com/shorts/I1pC8uL9rMw

3/5/21
I pulled the corner or the valve cover off since there’s no clearance to pull it all the way off. No oil whatsoever, shoot.



3/6/21
Back on the trailer it went. Drained some oil, and it was a bit sparkly.

[This message has been edited by copperhens (edited 04-04-2021).]

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copperhens
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Report this Post04-04-2021 01:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
3/13/21
Brought the Fiero back to Mr. Eric’s, I appreciate him letting me use the lift. My boyfriend Paul and I got the engine dropped in just a few hours.


The tick came from the cam eating into this cam cap. This was the farthest point away from the oil flow.


The engine tear down begins.


So to recap, because a lot seems to have happened. I thought the Fiero was fine, and running. It developed a tick after sometime, presumably when the assembly lube wore out. There was no oil pressure to the top end. Why? The harmonic balancer bolt backed out, or was never torqued down. It had to be tighten in order to put the pulley back on, but regardless of if it was done or not, it was pretty loose and backed out somehow. This bolt put no pressure on the oil pump causing it to run very little, if at all. Should I have ran an oil pressure gauge? Yes. The gauge in the car never worked, and the car ran long enough we never expected anything of it. Obviously, when this goes together again we will verify there is oil getting to the car! Very frustrating, but the car isn’t toast yet.
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Report this Post04-04-2021 01:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for copperhensClick Here to Email copperhensSend a Private Message to copperhensEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
3/14/21
Mr. Eric and I got the engine torn down in a day. We needed to assess the damage and check it the crank was good.


Good news. Everything seems to be okay. The main thrust bearing had .01 of wear on the driver side. The crank still felt smooth, and nothing was critical. All I need to buy to put there engine back together are new main bearings, and new rod bolts since they’re TTY. This engine could have been a lot worse with an oil pump that wasn’t working.
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ericjon262
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Report this Post04-04-2021 01:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Man, that's a bummer. I would look over the cam lobes and lifters very carefully. this may be a good excuse to put in a 06+ N*, with it's forged crank, 10mm flywheel bolts, better heads, 58x wheel ect.

Good luck.

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Will
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Report this Post04-05-2021 10:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

Man, that's a bummer. I would look over the cam lobes and lifters very carefully.


Yeah, bigtime bummer... Check with a local dealership to make sure you have the most up-to-date parts. IIRC, there was a TSB on the balancer bolt & oil pump issue.

 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

this may be a good excuse to put in a 06+ N*, with it's forged crank, 10mm flywheel bolts, better heads, 58x wheel ect.

Good luck.



Easier said than done at the moment... I'm figuring out the engine management for that combo.
It has 11mm flywheel bolts.
The heads are necessarily better on the roller cam engines. The intake ports are better but the exhaust ports are worse.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 04-05-2021).]

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Report this Post04-05-2021 04:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Easier said than done at the moment... I'm figuring out the engine management for that combo.
It has 11mm flywheel bolts.
The heads are necessarily better on the roller cam engines. The intake ports are better but the exhaust ports are worse.



thanks for the flywheel bolt correction. getting engine management right could be handled by using a later PCM and DBW, GM got fairly standard with their crank and cam position stuff in the mid-late 2000's I would be very surprised if the OS used for an LS engine isn't the same as the later N*, or compatible. that being said, I haven't tried it. Unfortunately, that would require a re-wire, or at least all new connectors for the PCM.

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Report this Post04-06-2021 09:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:


thanks for the flywheel bolt correction. getting engine management right could be handled by using a later PCM and DBW, GM got fairly standard with their crank and cam position stuff in the mid-late 2000's I would be very surprised if the OS used for an LS engine isn't the same as the later N*, or compatible. that being said, I haven't tried it. Unfortunately, that would require a re-wire, or at least all new connectors for the PCM.



The engine management can run the engine... that's no big.
BUT, all the ancillaries like clutch switch, VSS, AC request, speedometer output & cruise switches that are handled via the bus in the car the 58x ECM came from are handled by discretes in the Fiero. I'm going to end up with a CANBus I/O gateway to make those work.
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Report this Post04-06-2021 09:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


The engine management can run the engine... that's no big.
BUT, all the ancillaries like clutch switch, VSS, AC request, speedometer output & cruise switches that are handled via the bus in the car the 58x ECM came from are handled by discretes in the Fiero. I'm going to end up with a CANBus I/O gateway to make those work.


My buddies LZ9/Getrag swap has an E67 and the VSS is input to the PCM, and a 4000PPM output runs the speedometer just like anything else. the E67 actually uses a clutch pedal position sensor IIRC. my buddy doesn't have one installed and the car seems to behave fine. I can't speak to the AC request, I would guess that it is only VIA serial line/CAN bus.

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Will
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Report this Post04-07-2021 12:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:


My buddies LZ9/Getrag swap has an E67 and the VSS is input to the PCM, and a 4000PPM output runs the speedometer just like anything else. the E67 actually uses a clutch pedal position sensor IIRC. my buddy doesn't have one installed and the car seems to behave fine. I can't speak to the AC request, I would guess that it is only VIA serial line/CAN bus.



And cruise control... There are several choices that have one or two of those functions available, but only one that has all of them.

The only 58x V8 PCM that has all of the functions I mentioned is the SSR PCM, and it's $600+ since GM hardly built any of them.
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Report this Post04-07-2021 06:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


And cruise control... There are several choices that have one or two of those functions available, but only one that has all of them.

The only 58x V8 PCM that has all of the functions I mentioned is the SSR PCM, and it's $600+ since GM hardly built any of them.


Everything I'm seeing for the SSR is 24x, that being said, I didn't look very hard.

I wonder how much of that is software, and how much is hardware. There's a guy who has been advertising a marine based PCM on some of the 60V6 facebook pages that claims support for all sorts of stuff, (including DI!) but I haven't been able to find much out about it.

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"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

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Report this Post04-07-2021 08:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:
My buddies LZ9/Getrag swap has an E67 and the VSS is input to the PCM, and a 4000PPM output runs the speedometer just like anything else. the E67 actually uses a clutch pedal position sensor IIRC. my buddy doesn't have one installed and the car seems to behave fine. I can't speak to the AC request, I would guess that it is only VIA serial line/CAN bus.

The E67 discrete inputs that work changes based on the OS and calibration. I don't think any E67 V8 calibration has a functioning discrete VSS input. All the auto calibrations route the VSS to the TCM first, then serial line/CAN bus to the ecm.

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:
And cruise control... There are several choices that have one or two of those functions available, but only one that has all of them.

The only 58x V8 PCM that has all of the functions I mentioned is the SSR PCM, and it's $600+ since GM hardly built any of them.


All the later model (2005/2006) SSR ecms are E40/24X. I swapped reluctor wheel and cam gear on my E67/58X LS4 so I could run it for all the discrete inputs, factory manual transmission calibration, and working factory cruise.
I sent one of my E40 ecms with a VIN# from a 2006 LS2/T65 SSR to Darth and had him load the factory OS/calibration to it.
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