Time to upgrade the tail lights to LED units as they are brighter and use less power. I purchased a pack of 10 of these 25 SMD LED light replacements and they are bright. They will fit the GM sockets but due to the slight ridge where the base meets the LED circuit board the LED jams on the plastic housing by a small amount not allowing it to be pushed all the way in place. . . Tried to slightly grind the ridge away but the bond between circuit board and base is then compromised. Does anyone know if a replacement socket is available that will accept this bulb and fit the Fiero tail light housings?


This one shows the ridge that the LED bulb has not going in the socket


Possible solution is to use the LED bulb in the glass envelop that is shaped like the OEM 2057 bulb.

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 02-15-2020).]

In one year, you will begin to lose LEDs. Those are crap my good man. Not your fault, just been there done that. The things jiggle like no tomorrow, and bust solders. I went so far as to fix them once, but crapolla.

Edit: The lights have 120 solder joints on them.

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 02-15-2020).]

I changed mine over to LED's similar to that last year before taking the car across the states. All the lights made it the 4k miles but when I took my lenses off just recetly to change them out to Keith Goodyears I had a couple of the LED's coming apart. While I did not lose any lights it was only a matter of time so be prepared. I am now going to use Danyel's full LED's and ditch the old ones.

[This message has been edited by Spadesluck (edited 02-16-2020).]

Thanks for the info guys but how about these LED's with the "filament" style COB strips?


or the white red color version. They are supposedly bright



Less connections possibly better reliability?

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

I like the initial design better than the squared off cree design. Please let us know what you find out. I have been replacing mine with the style you initially posted just due to availability and I can solder a joint properly. It gets old though when you have to continuously check to see if everything works.

Speaking of Danyel's things...

I have his GT side molding leds from a long time ago. A very long time ago. I just recently had 3 of the lights in one of the rear marker lights go out. This is after 9 years, and nearly 50,000 miles. I am OK with that amount of attrition.

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: I like the initial design better than the squared off cree design. Please let us know what you find out. I have been replacing mine with the style you initially posted just due to availability and I can solder a joint properly. It gets old though when you have to continuously check to see if everything works. Speaking of Danyel's things... I have his GT side molding leds from a long time ago. A very long time ago. I just recently had 3 of the lights in one of the rear marker lights go out. This is after 9 years, and nearly 50,000 miles. I am OK with that amount of attrition.

How did you get those LED array units to fit the Fiero light sockets. The first ones pictured here do not fit in. The ridge between the base and the circuit board will not pass past the plastic housing.

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Tried to slightly grind the ridge away but the bond between circuit board and base is then compromised.

That's what I do; I chuck the bulb base in the lathe, then grind away at the base with a Dremel + cutoff wheel.

As required, I would reflow each solder joint with fresh flux + a soldering iron.

For the couple of years I ran this type of LED bulb (constructed from a bunch of printed circuit boards), I didn't run into any reliability issues.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 02-15-2020).]

I modified my plastic housings on the socket itself. Just enough to allow the bulb to seat all the way down to turn and lock it in.

Thanks to all for the helpful comments. If I may be permitted one last comment, I have been using the multiple SMD LED's (the circuit board type shown in picture 1) but in a T10 size for about 7 years for outside landscape lighting. On eight lights not one failure has occurred so far but the application has been stationary. All LED's that I can find are Chinese Imports. While imported LED's can prove to be very good, the large discrepancy in quality control from manufacturer to manufacturer over there still leaves much to be desired.

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: In one year, you will begin to lose LEDs. Those are crap my good man. Not your fault, just been there done that. The things jiggle like no tomorrow, and bust solders. I went so far as to fix them once, but crapolla. Edit: The lights have 120 solder joints on them.

Crap? That's an understatement. Most of them has to climb up many levels to reach Crap level.
All LEDs are made to meet RoHS and use Lead Free Solder that often fails. Then add most are crap on top of that. Then add even if you find good quility, LEDs can't handle very noisy power in a car w/ spikes etc. Then add White LED Is Not same as White Tungsten and behind Color Lenses can cause many issues some covered in my Cave, LED poisoning Red LED often not = to Red bulbs and even Red bulbs can have same issue behind Red lenses.

What not covered is most use Cold/Cool White, Color Temp > 4500°K and makes light output shift colors so Red Lenses look pink to purple and scream has illegal light to cops. Same problem w/ fools that use Purple Gems in taillight lenses etc. in "the old days" to give cops a reason to stop you.

Most say Cree are Counterfeit. But Even Real Cree products have many to all of the problems above.

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

Like others, I modified the housing to allow the LED's to fit. I used a round grinding stone to open up the hole. Use Red where the lens is Red, Amber for amber lenses, White for white or clear lenses for best possible light. Makes a big difference on how bright they are. Think of a red lens as a filter only allowing the red component of light to pass through. If you have a white bulb behind it, then maybe 90% of the light is blocked by the lens (only the red wavelengths get through).

Also, if you should convert to Electronic Cruise control, you will need to modify the rear lights to get the cruise to work. Needs a ground interrupt, or just use one old style incandescent bulb in the brake circuit. THe LED's act like a capacitor and hold just enough electricity that the Electronic Cruise thinks the brakes are still on.

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'87 GT , '00 3800 Series II SC, 4t65e, Vue Power Steering. (SOLD)

quote Originally posted by theogre: All LEDs are made to meet RoHS and use Lead Free Solder that often fails. Then add most are crap on top of that. Then add even if you find good quility, LEDs can't handle very noisy power in a car w/ spikes etc. Then add White LED Is Not same as White Tungsten and behind Color Lenses can cause many issues some covered in my Cave, LED poisoning Red LED often not = to Red bulbs and even Red bulbs can have same issue behind Red lenses. What not covered is most use Cold/Cool White, Color Temp > 4500°K and makes light output shift colors so Red Lenses look pink to purple and scream has illegal light to cops. Same problem w/ fools that use Purple Gems in taillight lenses etc. in "the old days" to give cops a reason to stop you. Most say Cree are Counterfeit. But Even Real Cree products have many to all of the problems above.

That's what you think. Then why are 100% of all new vehicles coming with LED lighting and they are all made in the same country If I look at the lights on my Chrysler there are probably 200 or so surface mounted devices and no failure in the three that I have owned thru the years. All I know is that compared to incandescent bulbs the LED's are brighter but an electronic flasher must be used.
I'd say this test looks pretty go to me and thats before I painted the interior housing bright silver



This is going to be part of my new Fiero C4 rear tail light panel install

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 02-16-2020).]

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: How did you get those LED array units to fit the Fiero light sockets. The first ones pictured here do not fit in. The ridge between the base and the circuit board will not pass past the plastic housing.

Mine have always fit in? I see now you have a difficult time getting the sockets to seat.

Cheap crapolla. Again, not your fault. We are fed junk parts to replace our worn units. Rebuilding the front suspension of my F150 currently. I have returned parts because of quality. One lower ball joint was already rusted inside. Quality is a fart in the wind.


Dennis, why not look into a different style lighting? Perhaps a board with LED's in the pattern you want? Just the single socket will give you that single socket look for life. With that lens, you will always be able to tell it is a bulb in there. Something to think about. Not adding work for you.

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 02-16-2020).]

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: That's what you think. Then why are 100% of all new vehicles coming with LED lighting and they are all made in the same country If I look at the lights on my Chrysler there are probably 200 or so surface mounted devices and no failure in the three that I have owned thru the years.

I'm not sure I would compare the results of tier 1 suppliers following some automotive quality methods (such as IATF 16949, PPAP, etc) vs. things sold in the rice aisle at Autozone.

quote Originally posted by theogre: All LEDs are made to meet RoHS and use Lead Free Solder that often fails.

Of course SnPb is the best; that's what I use for my personal repairs. But I don't know of any warranty problems that are related to SAC305 solder at my work.

Dennis,

I have converted three of my four Mera tail/stop lights to LEDs because the standard bulbs eventually melt/distort the bulb housing. I have the materials to do the fourth one and may complete that conversion in a month or so. I used LEDs fro West Coast Cougar Classic and have been happy with them so far. I did have to remove a little bit of material from the inside of the socket to get the LEDs in them, but that was not difficult with my Dremel and a stone. No housings have melted since the conversion and I am pleased with the LEDs as of this date. Note that I did need to remove the two conventional flashers and install LED compatible flashers that i picked up from Auto Zone for less than $10 each. Let me know if you want specific model numbers for the LEDs or just take a look at the WCCC web site to select the appropriate ones.

Nelson

I converted two of my four tail light bulbs to LED- Bought them at Pepboys approx' 10 years ago...Installed one and immediately noticed that, in combination with a normal bulb, it gave the effect of sequential turn indicator lights. So I installed the two LEDs in the inner placement and left the regular bulbs in the outer (the LED bulbs turn on and off much quicker than incandescent bulbs).

Yes, it also affects how the brake lights come on....

They still work....after 10 years of semi-daily driving.

Note; I have an 1985 SE V6- but 15 years ago I swapped in a 88 GT rear deck and quarters- using my 85 TL harness, modifying the (Broken) 88 GT tail lights so the sockets fit in the red area (Hate Yellow tail lights!)

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: That's what you think. Then why are 100% of all new vehicles coming with LED lighting and they are all made in the same country If I look at the lights on my Chrysler there are probably 200 or so surface mounted devices and no failure in the three that I have owned thru the years. All I know is that compared to incandescent bulbs the LED's are brighter but an electronic flasher must be used. I'd say this test looks pretty go to me and thats before I painted the interior housing bright silver CLICK FOR FULL SIZE This is going to be part of my new Fiero C4 rear tail light panel install

Keep self-justifying your mods all you like...
1. You're comparing aftermarket crap to OEM units that are Build to Meet OEM Specs for Quality etc. IOW complete statement.
2. So many Car's w/ OEMs LED often have failed In and Out of the Warranty period often for same reason(s). Pius and more have iffy Taillights and when fail out of warranty or Denied and cops ticked or failed inspection... Getting replacement thru Dealers can cost Hundreds of $ Each because LEDs are often sealed/bonded to the lens etc.and have to replace the whole assembly then add whatever time/cost to replace... Many are very hard to remove and replace plus often have to remove trim etc not made to remove w/ risk of wrecking them.
Even New Trucklite etc Standard light sizes like 4" and 6" Round made to meet FMVSS use by Many Truck brands have failed only in a few years. Example: T-L PN 44551R 4" Round sells $60 - $90 Each. T-L Claim has lifetime warranty but many ways that warranty gets Denied/Voided plus doesn't cover Cost/Time to replace them even when you get free replacements.
3. Doesn't matter What red lenses are from. Most LED will never match light output colors for Most cars using Tungsten bulbs and more so LED > 4500°K "white" units.

Post your Picture doesn't mean or prove anything. Pictures like this often lie for many reasons even when user can't edit them. By the time everyone here sees it the UL and DL to whatever screen can change the view of them just because monitor type, model and settings. It gets far worse when other re-post them like blue or whatever color dress crap last years even MSM reported on.

Most aftermarket units use bare minimum to regulate power to the LED w/ most are just resistors. Worse Many are "Canbus Error Free" that have builtin "high watt" resistors that cook them to death and that if they only cook.
Example: Smokin' hot CANbus LED lamps. (230C in open air.) YT
That 194 LED in Fiero Markers will fry themselves and try cooking the fixture and socket too.

Great looking tail light panel!

If an LED bulb burns out, just buy another one. Problem solved.

quote Originally posted by theogre: Does your product(s) have to survive < 0°F to > 180°F for storage and operating temps plus get vibrated to get hammered driving on the roads for years? How long is the Warranty? Have you read the Warranty to find out the many ways the Warranty is Voided? Example: Truck-lite has sections to void their warranty including electric noise/spikes/surges in the vehicle will void it and many of the products have builtin surge protection.

Generally, products are tested for storage temperatures of -55°C to 120°C or so, operating might be a bit less extreme than that. The warranty depends on the customer / product line, could be anywhere from 1 to 10 years depending on if it's for powersports or heavy trucks. Vibration again would depend on customer spec, which would depend on the engine and vehicle duty.

Usually we honour warranties without too much trouble; it's hard to prove or disprove anything. Being the tier 1, there's also the broken telephone factor; it's hard to know what happened at the dealer with the customer in between.

If there's some sort of a recurring warranty issue, then that would warrant the trouble to investigate further.
Edit to add: I don't know of recurring warranty issues due to SAC305... doesn't mean it's never happened, just that I don't know about it. It's a big company; I don't know what's going on in every division.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 02-16-2020).]

I have had Plasma LED tail light bulbs from West Coast Classic Cougar in my 1988 Mera for a couple of years with no problems. They are brighter than the incandescent bulbs they replaced.



Here's a thread with some info.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/140495.html

quote Originally posted by qwikgta: If an LED bulb burns out, just buy another one. Problem solved.

Thank you. That is my sentiment exactly. You've got some on this thread that believe that the sky is falling with LED lights. My Fiero is a hobby and show car, so does anyone mean to tell me that only a few thousand miles per year is going to be a problem?. If it is, no big deal, a few screws later, you pull the bulb, put in a new one in, problem solved in less than five minutes. Quite frankly I do not anticipate failures.
While I await delivery of the glass bulb enclosed strip COB LED's , I was able to remove a bit of material from the upper side of the socket w a Dremel with a burr bit and shave a slight amount around the LED SMD board with the grinder. Those units now fit right in.
IMO, LED is the way to go. They use far less power, burn brighter, last far longer and run cooler.
------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 02-19-2020).]