I have the V6-4-speed shifter. Cables are new Rodney Dickman, and things are mostly in order (I made a new pin to replace the worn stocker in the select arm on the trans).
So I can't figure out any suitable adjustment that makes the reverse lamps stay on without holding the shifter to the left... I've been messing with adjusting the 10 mm headed bolt and moving around the ramp (which doesn't appear too worn, but I'm not sure how it's supposed to look when new). I can barely adjust the shifter such that the lights stay on as the shifter springs towards the right in reverse, but then I can inadvertently flash the reverse lights as I slap the shifter left to hit 1st or 2nd.
The "fundamental" issue here is that the resting Reverse position is very close to the 1-2 wall, and it's hard to set the switch in a good spot.
In the Reverse position, is the shifter supposed to spring:
*****Towards the left?***** If it sticks to the left, then after pulling the shifter backwards from Reverse, it stays on the left side by itself, keeping the reverse lamps on. To get into the forward gears, give the shifter a shove to the right, and then you're back into the normal pattern.
*****Towards the right?***** Same as 1st and 2nd, so after pulling the shifter backwards from Reverse, it springs all the way to between 3rd and 4th. My friend's BMW E90 is like this.
I am not old enough to know how a brand-new Fiero is supposed to feel...
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 05-25-2019).]
On the 4 speed, the resting position in Neutral is aligned with the 3-4 gate. All the way to the right.
Have you removed the switch and looked at the end of the plunger? I believe there's a small screw in there that can extend or retract the head of the plunger. For some reason, flashing the backup lights seems to be common while shifting between 1-2. I've experienced it and seen it on quite a few cars. Without going up to my storage and looking at a shifter, seems there's a paddle on the end of the activation lever. Could that be bent slightly or maybe a thin piece of metal added to it's surface where it contacts the plunger?
The spring loaded lever should push the shifter out of the R gate, not keep it in there.
Put the shifter into the Reverse, then adjust the switch so that it just makes the reverse lights turn on. For example, when you find the location where the switch activates, push it in about 1/64 to 1/32 further and tighten it down. This should keep the activation point outside of the 1/2 gate and help reduce the accidental flashing, but still allow it to be on solid while in Reverse. This setting will be impacted by cable wear and mechanical slop in the shifter mechanism.
Originally posted by fierofool: Have you removed the switch and looked at the end of the plunger? I believe there's a small screw in there that can extend or retract the head of the plunger. For some reason, flashing the backup lights seems to be common while shifting between 1-2. I've experienced it and seen it on quite a few cars. Without going up to my storage and looking at a shifter, seems there's a paddle on the end of the activation lever. Could that be bent slightly or maybe a thin piece of metal added to it's surface where it contacts the plunger?
Yes, there's a paddle that can be bent; that does the same thing as adjusting the screw on the plunger.
I actually have the whole shifter on the bench right now.
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru: This should keep the activation point outside of the 1/2 gate and help reduce the accidental flashing, but still allow it to be on solid while in Reverse.
That's what I can't find; an intermediate zone with nothing. Right now the R and 1-2 zone boundaries are almost touching. Possibly I have too much slack. The shifter does feel good though, as if it would be friendly and easy to use while driving (my Fiero is currently apart and I'm fixing things).
On the reverse "lockout" cam, there are two ramps. One steep ramp (pretty much a wall) to keep you out the Reverse area during normal driving. Then, with more leftwards travel, there is a shallower ramp, but sloping in the opposite direction.
When I let go of the shifter in Reverse, the shifter moves far enough right such that the roller ends up halfway up the steep wall that normally keeps the driving in the forward gears area.
After reading Bernie's post from January of 2016, I went up to storage and got pictures of both my shifters. I never realized there were two styles. Which do you have?
Something that occurred to me is that both 4-speed cables are adjustable at the transmission. I'm wondering if you disconnected both with the transmission in reverse, then moved the shifter to the place where the backup lights stay on then tighten the cables at the transmission. It's been more than 20 years since I've dealt with a 4-speed that I don't remember a lot about the shifting mechanisms.
Either case... Shifter itself can wear out and have problems keeping RL switch on. Look carefully at all pivots and moving parts on the shifter.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Originally posted by fierofool: After reading Bernie's post from January of 2016, I went up to storage and got pictures of both my shifters. I never realized there were two styles. Which do you have?
Something that occurred to me is that both 4-speed cables are adjustable at the transmission. I'm wondering if you disconnected both with the transmission in reverse, then moved the shifter to the place where the backup lights stay on then tighten the cables at the transmission.
I have the second design; the one on the right of the photo.
I think I know what you're saying... so far, I've been pulling the shifter left with a bungee cord against the reverse lockout, and then tightening the select cable nut with the transmission in the 1-2 gear position.
I have a tentative solution, so I thought I would share with the Forum as this appears to be a common unresolved problem. Here is a series of graphic representations showing the left-right movement of the shift lever:
As I have been unable to remove the overlap between the left and right zones, here is my tentative solution:
How to implement this in the simplest possible solution? I didn't want too much electronics, extra relays, etc. Well, a reed switch activated by a magnet has an inherent hysteresis action that would give the desired behaviour.
I selected the following power reed switch: PIC GmbH MS-228M-6-4-0500 Digi-Key P/N: 2010-1179-ND
The switch is mounted on a piece of aluminium angle, which is pop-riveted to the stock shifter weldment. I chose aluminium to prevent any magnetic effects.
I got a selection of cylindrical NdFeB magnets, axially magnetized: D 7/16", L 3/32" D 7/16", L 1/8" D 7/16", L 3/16" D 7/16", L 1/4" D 7/16", L 3/8"
When I find the grade of magnet material (have to sift through old purchase orders), I'll post it.
With bench testing, I have tentatively selected the 1/4" long magnet. I'll confirm my choice once I put the shifter in the car and it's connected to the transmission. Once that's done, I'll use epoxy to glue the magnet to the steel tab.
The current draw of a pair of 1156 bulbs will overload the reed switch contact ratings. Therefore, I am installing a pair of 93 bulbs; same form factor, but less current draw and less brightness. When I drive the car, I'll decide if the reduced brightness is an issue.
With the 93 bulbs, I hope the contacts won't be overloaded "too badly". The reed switch won't undergo too many cycles, so it may last, I suppose.
To operate the reed switch correctly, you have to fully cross the transition zone to turn the lights /on/off as required. I think that this will happen naturally for most drivers without even thinking about it.
My hope is that I could throw someone the keys to my Fiero, and that the back-up lamps will work as they should, without any explanations.
If you look up the part numbers, you'll find that these are N42 magnets. I'd expect that a different grade could be substituted with a minor reed switch position adjustment.
I ended up gluing the 1/4" long magnet in place with LePage Speed-Set 5-minute epoxy.
Gluing procedure: 1. Sand the steel tab with coarse-grit sandpaper to give the epoxy some tooth to bite into. I didn't sand the magnet; maybe I should have. 2. Remove any traces of oil from the parts to the glued with wax and grease remover solvent. 3. Orient the shifter such that the steel tab is horizontal, to reduce the risk of the epoxy running in an unwanted direction while it's still liquid. 4. Paint the steel tab with mixed epoxy. 5. Paint the magnet with mixed epoxy. 6. Stick the magnet onto the steel tab. Due to the magnetic attraction force, no other clamping is necessary.
Once the epoxy cured, the next day I retested (bench test) the shifter, and the switch still turned on and off at the required positions. The epoxy had no apparent effect on the function of the magnet/switch combo. A driving test is still some time away.
Qualitatively, I know that axially-magnetized magnets with a smaller L/D ratio are at greater risk of demagnetization, so that also played into my choice to avoid the flatter magnets.
My project car now has a battery in it, so I was able to test this "for real" in the car.
The switch appeared to work a few times, and then it stayed stuck on. I suspect the light bulbs were too big of a load for the switch, causing its contacts to weld together. The setup worked well when testing the switch with my multimeter in continuity beep mode (with minuscule current).
I'll retry with a new reed switch and LED 1156 bulbs. LEDs with a 3000 K color temperature are available nowadays, so the result won't look too much like a modified car.
To test the durability of the new setup, I'll probably spin a magnet in a drill to cycle the reed switch on/off (with the LED load connected) some 10000 times or so.
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 12-26-2019).]
With a replacement reed switch and LED bulbs, the back-up lamps appear to work correctly.
These are the bulbs I got from the local electronic surplus parts store:
I had to grind away some material from the PCB closest to the base in order for these bulbs to fit inside the Fiero lamp sockets.
The brightness seems OK.
For reference, I activated the brake lamps. The brake lamps are incandescent 2057 bulbs.
In the garage, this setup appears to work. When in Reverse, if I push the shifter towards the right, the back-up lamps stay on. When in 1st/2nd, if I push the shifter towards the left, the back-up lamps remain off.
Once I get the car on the road and some mileage on this setup, I'll be able to recommend this as a solution to the common back-up lamp switch problem, whereby no adjustment of the the stock switch can allow the system to work properly.
Originally posted by pmbrunelle: Once I get the car on the road and some mileage on this setup, I'll be able to recommend this as a solution to the common back-up lamp switch problem
12000 km later, the reed switch + LED solution is still working fine.
