I was wondering what would be a suitable auto (if any) for a setup using a LS3..with the understanding that the tranny would have to be strengthen and knowing that it would still be the weak point in the swap.
I know Archie has the swap kits for a manual swap..but would there be a great difficulty with an auto...
There is all kinds of other options just wanted some insights on this particular swap.Your thoughts please......
Don't believe that you can use any V8 outside of the LS4 with the 4T65eHD. With the LS3 you would have to use the small TH125H and only Archie would know if that would fit. SBC's with autos have been done before. Archie is the man to contact.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Searching thru the archives, I found somebody who did it. The thread is over 10 years old, so I don't know if the guy is still around to answer questions. But here's the link:
Thanks for the links and info guys...been up all night going over them, As a follow up question ,Dennis mentioned that the 4T65eHD might not work with other v8s..
Would that tranny work on a sbc with an Archie adaptor? Notably a 383 stroker..using a stand alone controller.
[This message has been edited by fireboss (edited 11-23-2016).]
Any of the RWD versions of the SBC or LS(x) will either need the adapter plate setup to clock the engine forward or you will have to cut a portion of the stock starter mount off the block... essentially ruining the block for any future non-fiero related project.
The issue is the diameter of the transmission case that runs along side the engine. You have to get this below the starter pad on the block some way.
The LS4 was designed to be used with its specific 4T65e-hd and the LS4 block does not have a starter pad on that corner. In fact, that corner is cut away from the factory so it will clear the body of the transmission.
The problem with the LS3 attached to a 4T65eHD with an adapter plate is that the overall length doesn't fit within the cradle. The LS4 being shorter than other LS engines and having the same bolt pattern as the 4T65eHD will fit.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Don't believe that you can use any V8 outside of the LS4 with the 4T65eHD. With the LS3 you would have to use the small TH125H and only Archie would know if that would fit. SBC's with autos have been done before. Archie is the man to contact.
You can use whatever you want with the 4t65eHD as long as you have an adapter plate and spacer to bolt it up and move the torque converter to the right position.
The problem with the LS3 attached to a 4T65eHD with an adapter plate is that the overall length doesn't fit within the cradle. The LS4 being shorter than other LS engines and having the same bolt pattern as the 4T65eHD will fit.
It will fit as well as an LS3 + F40 does. Which means, yes, you will probably need to notch the frame rails and cradle. Even with an LS4 there may still be notching that needs to be done, for oil filter, trans housing, etc… The LS4 was made for FWD, but it wasn't built to be a trivial bolt-in option for a Fiero.
If you don't mind stretching the car 2 feet you could bolt that ls3 to a Corvette 6l80e transaxle.
Probably would need more like 36" for that, and you'd need a custom bell housing to mate the trans directly to the engine, rather than using the torque tube. Also, at that point, the newer 8 speed, or an electronically controlled sequential gearbox with paddle shifters might be more fun.
A more practical option if going for a longitudinal install, would be an Audi trans.
Why not just use the LS4 ? Are they really scarce or something ?
Depends on what you want to do with it, really. If you want to use the newer square port heads that the LS3 has, you need a 4.000"-4.250" bore. You could get that with an LS4 block, but it requires re-sleeving the block, so costs add up real quick. Another thing is if you want to use the LS9 oil squirters to cool the bottom of the pistons, the LS4 block can't be used, because it doesn't have the material where those squirters are installed.
But yeah, if you just want a daily-driver V8 with auto in a Fiero, that's an LSx, then an LS4 would be the way to go. An even easier option for a V8 with auto would be the Caddy 4.9, as it fits much better in the Fiero, is a fair bit cheaper, and is pre-OBD-II, so much easier to deal with the electronics for it.
Why not just use the LS4 ? Are they really scarce or something ?
I like that swap. And nope eng/trans are not scarce..
But to make a long story short--My best friend has a ls3 with stand alone wiring I might be able to get at such a great price.. So just wondering about the difficulties involved.
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
The problem with the LS3 attached to a 4T65eHD with an adapter plate is that the overall length doesn't fit within the cradle.
How much notching would be involved?
quote
Originally posted by dobey:
You can use whatever you want with the 4t65eHD as long as you have an adapter plate and spacer to bolt it up and move the torque converter to the right position.
Is there anyone making an adaptor plate and spacer for a LS3 to 4t65eHD? And I guess the axles would be the next problem..
The problem with the LS3 is the depth of the accessory drive on the front of the engine. You would need to either highly modify the accessory drive or seriously open up the passenger side engine bay. You need to compare the depth of accessory drive on the LS3 and the LS4 to see what you are up against.
Joe Sokol
------------------ 85 SE Daily driver with a 3.4 DOHC OBD II 88 Formula/GT 4.9 Allante Intake (My Baby) www.fieroking.com
Originally posted by fireboss: Is there anyone making an adaptor plate and spacer for a LS3 to 4t65eHD? And I guess the axles would be the next problem..
No. The LSx kit from Archie is only for manual transmissions. Since the bell pattern is the same though, you might be able to get just the adapter and maybe a portion of his basic kit to start from, and modify it to work with an auto, and then make custom axles to work with that trans.
The previously linked LS2 + 6t75 swap was a nice swap, and I think he mentioned in that thread that he might offer some adapter for using that trans with an LSx, but I don't know if anything ever came of that. The 6t75 would probably be a better option than the 4t65, too. If you really want an LS3 + auto, I'd suggest looking at it instead of the 4t65.
Probably would need more like 36" for that, and you'd need a custom bell housing to mate the trans directly to the engine, rather than using the torque tube. Also, at that point, the newer 8 speed, or an electronically controlled sequential gearbox with paddle shifters might be more fun.
A more practical option if going for a longitudinal install, would be an Audi trans.
I was joking, but the standard rwd bellhousing would mate the transmission to the engine without the torque tube. I'm pretty confident the 4 speed would work with a 2 foot stretch. 6 might be longer. But I will be using an Audi transaxle.
I am looking hard at the LS2 and 6F55. I am just trying to pick out a four post lift, then I will be ready to pick up a spare engine and trans. With the 265/35/18 tires I am running this would put me at 6th gear, 70 mph, 1900 RPM.
The problem with the LS3 is the depth of the accessory drive on the front of the engine. You would need to either highly modify the accessory drive or seriously open up the passenger side engine bay. You need to compare the depth of accessory drive on the LS3 and the LS4 to see what you are up against.
Joe Sokol
Joe nailed it. You'd probably have to modify and then end up ( if it were possible) with the belt drive in the right wheelhouse. If an LS2/3 + 4T65eHD was practical V8 Archie would have offered swaps and kits. I also believe that the overall length of the LS 1/2/3 engine is more than on the LS4 that is used in FWD applications. That is why the LS4 is the choice for a V8 auto swap and even that is a tight fit.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Joe nailed it. You'd probably have to modify and then end up ( if it were possible) with the belt drive in the right wheelhouse. If an LS2/3 + 4T65eHD was practical V8 Archie would have offered swaps and kits. I also believe that the overall length of the LS 1/2/3 engine is more than on the LS4 that is used in FWD applications. That is why the LS4 is the choice for a V8 auto swap and even that is a tight fit.
It is no less practical than an LS3/F40, which Archie does offer a kit for. Because there hasn't been enough demand to offer an auto kit for the LSx, doesn't mean it's not practical. Archie's LSx/manual kit requires plenty of frame and cradle modification on both sides of the car.
I love looking at these types of threads it makes me thinking of all sorts of ideas on how to put the engine in the way i like and that is longitudinal some of my ways are not as cheap as others so the cheapest way i would do it is a 425 turbo hydromatic with a flipped diff as you can buy a front sump oil oil pan for the Ls engine you could even use the switch pitch torque converter
Originally posted by engine man: I love looking at these types of threads it makes me thinking of all sorts of ideas on how to put the engine in the way i like and that is longitudinal some of my ways are not as cheap as others so the cheapest way i would do it is a 425 turbo hydromatic with a flipped diff as you can buy a front sump oil oil pan for the Ls engine you could even use the switch pitch torque converter
This is a link I bookmarked a long time ago in case I ever picked up a roller to mount the engine longitudinal. You never know when the stars might align just right. http://advancedautomotion.c...h/188/products_id/29
tampalinc yes i looked into all of that and with the LS engine hooked to that transmission you will need to move the firewall forward 4 to 6 inches between the deck lid hinge mounts but if you have the will you can find a way like so many have
One could modify the transmission mounting flange on the LS block to mount a transverse automatic transmission. I know of one drive train that is set up that way, but have not seen the drive train actually function. A lot of time with a TIG welder.......
you could use Darton mid sleeves in a ls4 block and get the cylinder bores as big as 4.200 and build your self one hell of a engine that bolts up to all the transverse transmissions
you could use Darton mid sleeves in a ls4 block and get the cylinder bores as big as 4.200 and build your self one hell of a engine that bolts up to all the transverse transmissions
But once you up the HP/TQ now you will have issues with the auto trans. You need to find the sweet spot, enough power to have a fun driver and not too much to keep the car "in the shop". A stock LS4 is about 300hp at the crank, remove the active fuel mgnt, do a cam swap, LS1 intake/ TB and headers and you'd have enough "fun" but no "break".
yes you must not exceed what the transmission can handle but the transmission along with other drive train parts will need beefing up with the more power you make and how much power is enough all depends on each individuals opinion of what is enough power
