Okay, I am finally gearing up for my swap but have a few questions. I've got three seperate transmissions (manual) that I can choose from. I was originally going to use my factory 5 speed from the 88 but then came upon the two 4 speed trans that i bought with a parts car. One of these 4 speeds has 4.11 gears so I thought, hey that could be fun, plus I'd have the backup 4 speed if that one died on me. My question is, it looks like on the SPEC site there is a different clutch for the 4 spd vs 5 spd. So if i purchase a clutch for the 4 speed, I am essentially stuck with that clutch correct?
Also, the parts car originally had a SBC in it and came with the clutch included for the 4 speed. Would this clutch be useable since it is out of the 4 speed and still mesh up with my 3800 flexplate? any thing I can look at to see if it is in decent shape without throwing it in there and trying it out?
Would this clutch be useable since it is out of the 4 speed and still mesh up with my 3800 flexplate?
Welcome to the Forum Zac. No clutch will match up to a flexplate... did you mean Flywheel?
The difference in 4 and 5 speed clutch kits is the throw-out bearing. If you have the right throw-out bearing, the clutch will work on either transmission.
Really? i thought it might be fun for getting around town, the car will RARELY see highway use, maybe a trip to deals gap at some point. But if its likely that I will hate it I Have no problems scrapping that and going back to the 5 speed that is sitting in my 88 currently.
And if the clutches are the same, as long as i can verify that the clutch itself appears in decent shape I could in theory use that clutch with the 5 speed even though it was setup for the 4 speed before. And yes I definately meant flywheel, I am curently at work so my mind is in about 40 different places
So what about using the 4 speed that is not the 4.11/4.10 as my chosen trans? benefit or cons compared to the getrag? Im hoping to get started in the next week or two and trying to be on top of these little indecisive things.
Are the axles interchangeable between the 5 speed/4 speed? does the shift linkage and shifter pate need to be changed from inside the car? anything else i may need to change that i havent thought of yet or that would make going to the 4 speed a more difficult option?
It's a matter of opinion. I own an '87 GT with a 5 speed, and an '86 GT with a 4 speed. The 4.11 ratio, too. I'm about to swap a 3.8 SC into the '86 and I am retaining the 4 speed. I daily drive both, and it's mostly city driving on hills, with frequent weekend road trips. Those road trips are the only ones I ever touch 5th gear anyway. But I do have the benefit of alternating cars to suit my destination, so the 4 speed gearing doesn't hamper the decision much. The drawback is more an issue of parts, so far. Harder to locate 4 speed parts. But between the two, I like the 4 speed better. To each their own.
...and an '86 GT with a 4 speed. The 4.11 ratio, too.
Just for my own enlightenment... did that 4-spd with those gears come in your '86 GT from the factory? I was under the impression that the only 4-spd with the 4:10 final drive ratio came on the '84 (which of course was a 4-banger).
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-23-2016).]
About 2 mph difference; essentially the same, so you might as well keep the 282 5 speed and pretend you have a 4 speed by not shifting to 5th.
The M19 is the same 4 speed that is behind the 2.8, just a different final drive, at least according to the parts catalogs I've seen (same part numbers for internals). I have one in my '85 GT (M17 was stock). I use the 5 speed in my race Fiero and it works just fine; maybe it's the 4 speed shifter that I use with the 5 speed.
Good question. '86 factory GT's with the Muncie have a 3.65 final ratio. I can't recall what the previous owner said about this transmission outside of the mention of its' ratio. Will have to run numbers again for a straight answer. I could even be misinformed
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Originally posted by Patrick:
Just for my own enlightenment... did that 4-spd with those gears come in your '86 GT from the factory? I was under the impression that the only 4-spd with the 4:10 final drive ratio came on the '84 (which of course was a 4-banger).
Before there were more modern tranny options, one of the more elusive ventures that people would attempt to do was to track down an '84 MY8 transmission (with the higher "econo" gearing) and to put the guts into an '85 or newer case. I have to assume the MY8 had the same smooth weaker case as the M19 (and therefore had problems breaking), otherwise I can't see why anyone would've gone through all that trouble.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-24-2016).]
Before there were more modern tranny options, one of the more elusive ventures that people would attempt to do was to track down an '84 MY8 transmission (with the higher "econo" gearing) and to put the guts into an '85 or newer case. I have to assume the MY8 had the same smooth weaker case as the M19 (and therefore had problems breaking), otherwise I can't see why anyone would've gone through all that trouble.
The MY8 also had the weaker case. People were mix-matching the gearsets and installing them in the later cases, to get a sturdier trans with closer gear spacing. I forget what gearsets they were swapping, however. (The info is out there, however.)
I wouldn't even think about putting a 4.10 FDR with a 3800. You'd blow through first gear before you could even blink. As well as having the weaker case. Just my .02.
Interesting. The three ratios that were available for the 4 speed were 3.32, 3.65 and 4.1. The infamous Citation X-11 sported the same ratios as the M17 (3.31/1.92/1.24/0.81 and 3.65 FDR); more parts shelf engineering. Fourth gear in the MY8 was 0.73 but a little long with the 3.32 FDR. I can't find any references to which Citation transaxles received the stronger case but I also can't find any references to broken cases.
I could see people searching out the various combos and playing with FDR and fourth gear ratios to suit their particular ideas of the best compromise.
Originally posted by Raydar: I wouldn't even think about putting a 4.10 FDR with a 3800. You'd blow through first gear before you could even blink.
If the car went from 0-30 mph in 3 seconds, you'd have to shift at 2.95 seconds with the 4.1 gear and 3.31 seconds with the 3.65 gear; a difference of 0.36 seconds. The time difference is a blink, not the total time needed.
I'm sure that lots of people are just fine with using the 282/MG2 Getrag 5 speed with a 3800; the time difference between that and the M19 (4.1 FDR) is even less at only 0.22 seconds.
[This message has been edited by mender (edited 04-24-2016).]
I'm sure that lots of people are just fine with using the 282/MG2 Getrag 5 speed with a 3800; the time difference between that and the M19 (4.1 FDR) is even less at only 0.22 seconds.
Fine... spend the extra time and trouble to convert from a 5-spd to a 4-spd, be required to shift a bit sooner every 1st to 2nd gear change, and then enjoy the M19 for a limited period of time before it explodes.
Sounds like a plan! Heh heh...
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-24-2016).]
You'd regret it big time.
