well, let's just face up to it: our power windows are just plain glacial. And, I, as one of many am damned tired of it....but what to do?
In order, the steps are basically: clean and lube the mechanics in the door (usually done during dew wipe replacement); clean or replace the power window switches; convert to relay operation (see Rodney's window speeder upper!). Many of us have done some or all these things with varying degrees of success....but generally not enough!
So what to try next? I have a background in electronics and radio controlled aircraft. The thought arises to increase the voltage in the window motor circuit using a single cell lipo battery (4.1v) in combination with a couple of relays and a charging/protection circuit. We know the stock system draws less than 30 amps because it is protected by a 30 amp circuit breaker and no one I know blows that breaker.....so their is some unspecified amount of head room to increase current. Now, switching a single lipo cell into series with the window motor will increase the voltage at the motor approximately 25%. The resistance of the motor should remain constant. Since power increases as the square of the current, a 25% increase in motor current would result in about a 56% increase in motor power! If that does not exceed the circuit breaker limitation, then I see not reason this would not work to dramatically speed up the window speed. The additional voltage would not be seen anywhere other than within the window circuit.
While it is convincing, i too love electronics and have changed the window switches to not carry load anymore but to control a set of relays for each door. A lot of current loss through the current system, rodneys parts are im sure good, but not what i wanted. Check out getting four 4 pin relays two dual relay sockets, one relay for up and one for down, this passes every bit of voltage to the motors and does make them move much quicker. Its no new lexus or anything, but it beats having to sit there hoping your windows even make it up.
I used a device called a 530t to allow all the power to move from the switches to the module and also gave me one touch up and down. do a search under my name and 530t I put the diagram out there. Also do a search for rebuilding your power window switch connections there is a lot of gunk in there from years of use.
I used a device called a 530t to allow all the power to move from the switches to the module and also gave me one touch up and down. do a search under my name and 530t I put the diagram out there. Also do a search for rebuilding your power window switch connections there is a lot of gunk in there from years of use.
I have already converted to relay operation....after disassembling and lubing the switches....after cleaning and lubing the door internals during dew wipe replacement and, at least in my car, the driver's window is barely functional and the passenger's must be 'bumped' over and over to make use of the starting current surge to obtain enough torque to move the window. I would not consider anything as 'extreme' as what I am proposing had something simpler been available.
I also have a 'ChinaBay' one touch up/one touch down module I hope to try....but it is designed to time out after 10 seconds and that will simply not work at my window's current speed.
So, can you see and real reason for me not to try boosting the window system voltages?
I also fly rc planes and have experience with the Lipo batteries. I'm how your system would work for the long haul. To leave the battery in place would require some sort of charging system. They are very volatile batteries and not happy with mistreatment, either charging or discharging. I've seen a small 2cell discharged lipo shorted and smoke out a giant garage. Wouldn't want that in the small cabin of the fiero. What about a seperate power supply like 3 x 6v lead acid batteries in series kept alive with a trickle charger from the fiero battery that is turned on with key ignition?
For the three different Fieros I've had all did fine powering the windows Down but were very slow going up. Simple idea ... could one put a stout spring on the mechanical arms (not sure where) such that the spring was Stretched putting the window down (slowing it down a bit) and allowed to Relax putting the window back up? The spring would assist the window going up. Yes?
good luck... Batteries hate heat and often have a very short life because of heat. (Side note: AAA gets most calls for dead car batteries in Summer.)
Lithium batteries generate Heat to charge and discharge. That why many smart phones have battery problem in only a year or two. The battery can't dump heat because of bad case design or cover to "protect" them.
Heat in a car can reach 160°F and more even in cool weather. Is why people and animals die in parked cars. For many small batteries... Long term max storage temp on many LiPo is "room temperature" or they will die fast.
Many small lithium batteries hate cold temp's too. Worse then car batteries in freezing weather.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
You can't take apart the counter spring but can lube them and often does help. Avoid grease here. Grease can be very sticky in cold weather. Try silicon etc oil w/ Teflon.
Clean/lube the wheels and tracks w/ plastic friendly lube. Many oil/grease will help short term but cause problems. Once damage is done, only option is to replace the wheels. (Teflon is ok but some formulas not like plastic. Read the Label.)
Relays can help. Rodney's kit itself is likely ok but directions are another story... Very short story... Better to move relay to A pillar and bolt the grounds there. Likely add wires to + side to get direct power from fuse box, window breaker.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 08-17-2015).]
I have a very simple solution to your problem. It is a little time consuming but works well. Go to your local parts store. Order a new..not remanufactured NEW set of window motors for a early 90's camaro. Same motor for both sides. And of course replace them in both doors. When replacing them, take every piece of track out of the window. Check evey one of the rollers and the mechanism for any stiffness or resistance. Get some marine grade bearing grease. Lube all tracks and rollers. Reassamble everything. You also need to check the front window track to make sure the the felt is still good. When you adjust the window, make sure it that nothing g is binding. The windows will now move freely and be quite a bit faster. They will not run at warp speed, but work like they should. Hope this helps Brian
Since you know electronics I think a power DC/DC converter would be a better option than an additional battery. You can increase the voltage to whatever you want at the cost of the input current. But...
Those motors are rated to withstand maybe 16V. Upping the voltage too much may blow the insulation and the higher speed can kill the bearings.
But if you want to experiment - definitely build a DC boost converter.
Since you know electronics I think a power DC/DC converter would be a better option than an additional battery. You can increase the voltage to whatever you want at the cost of the input current. But...
Those motors are rated to withstand maybe 16V. Upping the voltage too much may blow the insulation and the higher speed can kill the bearings.
But if you want to experiment - definitely build a DC boost converter.
I do not believe a boost converter with a 30 amp current capacity is practical....thank you though.
From my experience, most electrical design is rated at least 50% higher than anticipated maximum supply....that would be more than 21v, a single cell lipo would provide a boost in voltage of no more than 4.1v (charger limited to a 4.1 max for prevention of overcharge for safety)
PaulJK, Mickey_Moose, you are probably right. But I was truly hoping I could not have to pull the guts out of the door. So, anyone make any progress on the window motor swap that Fiero Obsessed had found?
I have a question about that: if the shaft which is too short is too short to reach a corresponding socket to support the free end, why not extend the socket to reach the shaft rather than extend the socket? Mebbe just add washers to the socket mounting?
I do not believe a boost converter with a 30 amp current capacity is practical....thank you though.
From my experience, most electrical design is rated at least 50% higher than anticipated maximum supply....that would be more than 21v, a single cell lipo would provide a boost in voltage of no more than 4.1v (charger limited to a 4.1 max for prevention of overcharge for safety)
You would have to calculate that, I don't know how much power the window motors draw, you would have to measure that. You can always put the boost coverter before the 30A fuse and protect it with a higher rated one. Considering that the motors will withstand that all I still think this is a better solution than another battery.
