Hey folks, I’m new to this forum. Thank you, Cliff Pennock, for accepting me to this Fiero club. I’ve had a ’84 Fiero when I was in high school. Indeed, it was a cool car to drive, but the manual transmission was really tough to drive in & had this very complicated problem with getting the car started. I even took it to Pontiac dealer several times to try & figure it out, but they couldn’t find what was wrong with it until it breaks down first. So, once in a while, if I’m somewhere and it doesn’t start, I’d have to wait up to 30 minutes before it actually starts. Sounds like I pumped the fuel too much and never could figure what was wrong with it. Maybe someone can tell me from their experience. It has been bugging me to this day.
Anyway, I had to sell it & get a more reliable car for college. Well, some 20 years later, a youtube video of modified Fiero GT got my attention. Now, I wanted one again to relieve my youth, LOL, but prefer later year. So now I’m in the market for one and would like to get your guys’ feedbacks on what is the best choice.
Naturally, like everyone else, I thought ’88 Fiero GT with V6 would be the best choice. I almost had a chance to buy one recently, but the owner from 9 hours away in another state took forever to answer my questions about rust issue in northern states (after several communications with this owner), just sold it to someone else. Bummer for me! I’m starting to realize how tough it is to find ’88 Fiero GT with reasonable mileage.
I came across someone’s comment in other forum that he thinks ’87 would be better choice cause he thinks, since ’88 has the revised & better suspension, is the problem. Being specific to one year parts are more expensive and some parts are really hard to find. An early car can be made to handle just as well and better than an ’88 with aftermarket parts.
So, I’m asking you guys from your experience if that’s true? Should I give up looking for ‘88 GT and focus on finding ’87 GT which is cheaper & more accessible? I read from one of Pennock forums you guys would recommend ’88 GT b/c of suspension issue. Do you guys still feel this way today? Much appreciated for any answers. Thanks for reading.
[This message has been edited by Fiero Vice (edited 06-15-2015).]
Sounds like I pumped the fuel too much and never could figure what was wrong with it.
"pumped the fuel"? What were you hoping to accomplish? Pumping the gas pedal was something that was done with carbureted engines to set the choke (or to squirt extra fuel into the intake). There's no choke (or accelerator pump) on a fuel injected 2.5 or 2.8 Fiero engine!
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Originally posted by Fiero Vice:
Should I give up looking for ‘88 GT and focus on finding ’87 GT which is cheaper & more accessible?
Why have you limited your choices so much? Is it the engine (2.5 vs 2.8) or the body shape (notchie vs fastback) you're mostly after? I have several Fieros... '84 duke, '86 GT, '87 duke, '88 Formula. The '88 is more refined, but I would not turn down an earlier model if it was in good shape for a good price. My '88 might possibly accelerate the best, but IMO the '86 looks the best (with the contrasting silver aero trim). Which one of my Fieros handles the best? No question... my '84 duke. Seriously, but I put some effort into the suspension.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-15-2015).]
Thank you, Patrick. Yeah, I meant pumping the gas pedal. I might have pumped it too much while trying to get it started. It might have flooded the engine. No? It happened once in a while.
In regards to limiting my choices, yes, it’s both engine & body shape. I like the shape of GT….which looks like a mini-Ferrari. Like you said, ’88 is more refined & accelerates the best. That’s why I'm holding out for ’88 GT.
There’s ’87 for sale around $3K with 80K miles with engine problem…saying it runs, but doesn’t drive. The owner replaced fuel pump & filter, but it didn’t solve the problem. Should I buy it at low price & take chance to get it to work? I'm trying to debate if I should wait for '88 or just go for it with '87.
Yeah, I meant pumping the gas pedal. I might have pumped it too much while trying to get it started. It might have flooded the engine. No?
No. What part of my response did you miss? Pumping the gas pedal on a fuel injected engine to start it does nothing.
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Originally posted by Fiero Vice:
Like you said, ’88 is more refined & accelerates the best. That’s why I'm holding out for ’88 GT.
You might be holding out a long time or paying a premium... or both. It is not a night and day difference between the 88's and the earlier years.
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Originally posted by Fiero Vice:
There’s ’87 for sale around $3K with 80K miles with engine problem…saying it runs, but doesn’t drive.
IMO, that's way too much money to pay for any Fiero that you can't just jump in and take for a satisfactory test drive. Around here a vendor would be lucky to get $1000 for that car.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-15-2015).]
Thanks for clearing that up about fuel injected engine. Then, what could be the problem? It’d be nice to know for future reference. I noticed many Fiero owners had similar problem with earlier years.
Yeah, you’re right it's crazy to pay premium price for an 88. I had an opportunity to buy '88 for $3,200 with 67K mileages recently. I thought that was a good deal, but the seller failed to answer my list of questions after several correspondences & sold it to someone else local. That’s why I’m confused after reading other forums where others said ’88 is still well worth the price. Like you said, it’s not much difference at all. I can always upgrade ’87 Fiero to ’88 level or better. So, what am I missing here? What parts are so special?
Yeah, I thought $3K was way too much too for that '87. That’s why I thought about making an offer of $1K & see what they say. But before I do that, I want to hear from members of this wonderful club on why I should stay the course to find ’88 instead of ’87.
By the way, how do you copy certain quotes from previous conversations. Still trying to get the hang of this forum. Thanks, Patrick, for following up.
[This message has been edited by Fiero Vice (edited 06-16-2015).]
Originally posted by Fiero Vice: I can always upgrade ’87 Fiero to ’88 level or better. So, what am I missing here? What parts are so special?
You are missing the cost. It's true that you can upgrade the suspension on a 87, but with a cost over $1000, it makes the 88 worth the extra purchase price.
edit: Welcome to the Forum!
[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 06-15-2015).]
BTW, is there any really difference between automatic & manual? From what I read, not much. Some said it's easier on their leg with automatic. But manual is more fun with a sports car. In term of power, not much difference.
BTW, is there any really difference between automatic & manual? From what I read, not much. Some said it's easier on their leg with automatic. But manual is more fun with a sports car. In term of power, not much difference.
Welcome to the forum.
Manual will be markedly faster, more fun and get better gas mileage.
Yes, you can mod a pre-88 to outhandle an '88, but stock for stock the 88 will handle AND ride better. It will also stop better. If you're going to upgrade all the brakes and suspension just to get to or past stock 88 levels, you could put that money towards a nicer stock 88. Keep in mind, you can also mod an '88 and then it's no contest.
All depends on what you want. Most parts are readily available. The few that are hard to come by can be had and I can tell you comparing my '88 Fiero Formula to my 2000 Trans Am, *ALL* Fiero parts are cheap.
You are missing the cost. It's true that you can upgrade the suspension on a 87, but with a cost over $1000, it makes the 88 worth the extra purchase price.
edit: Welcome to the Forum!
Thank you, Gall757. Even with $1,000 upgrade, it'd be a lot cheaper to go with 87 instead. Have you seen the premium prices of '88 recently? Don't you think?
[This message has been edited by Fiero Vice (edited 06-15-2015).]
As was asked, Corvette parts don't interchange. Any that are used would have to be custom re-worked. The only really difficult part to find on an 88 is the front wheel bearings and reproductions are available.
I wouldn't pay double for an 88 GT if the two cars were equally equipped and in similar condition. If you're getting a nicer car with the 88, yes, it could easily be worth double. It will also be worth more when/if you sell. How much difference in cost are you talking between the cars? How much do you think it's going to cost to upgrade the suspension? Even upgraded it will still ride worse and not have as responsive steering. And the 88 you're looking at may just be over priced.
Keep an eye out in The Mall here and you'll likely find a good 88 GT at a fair price. I'd also look up the prices to see if the cars you're looking at are over priced or not. http://www.paulvargyas.com/Price%20Guide.htm
Manual will be markedly faster, more fun and get better gas mileage.
Yes, you can mod a pre-88 to outhandle an '88, but stock for stock the 88 will handle AND ride better. It will also stop better. If you're going to upgrade all the brakes and suspension just to get to or past stock 88 levels, you could put that money towards a nicer stock 88. Keep in mind, you can also mod an '88 and then it's no contest.
All depends on what you want. Most parts are readily available. The few that are hard to come by can be had and I can tell you comparing my '88 Fiero Formula to my 2000 Trans Am, *ALL* Fiero parts are cheap.
Thank you, Formula.
Yeah, I agree that manual is more fun & faster. Lately, automatic in newer cars gets better gas mileage than manual. But for Fiero, I agree I'd rather go with manual. Just wanted to see from other’s experiences how it feels with '88. My experience with '84 manual wasn't that great. It was bit stiff. Wanted to see if it improved in later years.
In term of upgrading pre-88, you have a strong point there. But have you seen the prices of those '88s lately? It’s limited & have to drive at long distance to get it. One person flew to Arizona to drive home an '88. It makes me think that it's cheaper to upgrade new parts than getting a nicer stock 88.
As was asked, Corvette parts don't interchange. Any that are used would have to be custom re-worked. The only really difficult part to find on an 88 is the front wheel bearings and reproductions are available.
I wouldn't pay double for an 88 GT if the two cars were equally equipped and in similar condition. If you're getting a nicer car with the 88, yes, it could easily be worth double. It will also be worth more when/if you sell. How much difference in cost are you talking between the cars? How much do you think it's going to cost to upgrade the suspension? Even upgraded it will still ride worse and not have as responsive steering. And the 88 you're looking at may just be over priced.
Keep an eye out in The Mall here and you'll likely find a good 88 GT at a fair price. I'd also look up the prices to see if the cars you're looking at are over priced or not. http://www.paulvargyas.com/Price%20Guide.htm
Thanks for your advice, Formula88. I think I'll take up on your advice & be patient for another stock 88 to come along. And I wouldn’t want to take a chance with ’87 & be not happy with the result after upgrading. But those sellers of ’88 are trying to squeeze for extra milk as much as possible which isn’t fair to the buyers.
I wasn’t aware that corvette parts have to be modified to fit. Boy, I have a lot to catch up with Fiero. Yeah, I just saw Paul's Fiero price guidelines. It's little off in some areas of the country, but a guide is better than none.
1) The 88 has better designed running gear. BUT, it has a weak point (front wheel bearings). If you need another one or two front bearings, they are harder to find used and none of the aftermarket new ones prove durable like the GM originals. So, that's an issue.
2) With an 87 or earlier fiero, you don't have that problem because the bearings are are rebuildable. It is true that the 87 and earlier have bump steer on the rear end. But that is fixable too.
So, both have pros and cons. Either work well. Both platforms handle very well once you clean up the suspension with new bushings.
I have had many fieros and currently am down to three: 85GT, 88 4cyl. Coup, 88GT Top. All three have Northstar V8"s. Two of these are done and blast to drive. The third one is in process.
You can't go wrong with either suspension platform.
[This message has been edited by IXSLR8 (edited 06-16-2015).]
1) The 88 has better designed running gear. BUT, it has a weak point (front wheel bearings). If you need another one or two front bearings, they are harder to find used and none of the aftermarket new ones prove durable like the GM originals. So, that's an issue.
2) With an 87 or earlier fiero, you don't have that problem because the bearings are are rebuildable. It is true that the 87 and earlier have bump steer on the rear end. But that is fixable too.
So, both have pros and cons. Either work well. Both platforms handle very well once you clean up the suspension with new bushings.
I have had many fieros and currently am down to three: 85GT, 88 4cyl. Coup, 88GT Top. All three have Northstar V8"s. Two of these are done and blast to drive. The third one is in process.
You can't go wrong with either suspension platform.
Thanks for sharing your points, IXSLR8.
Is it possible to use 87’s & fit it for ‘88s? If not, can we use one from other sports car like vette or viper?
You’re the perfect Fiero owner to ask since you have both ’85 GT and ’88 GT. Which one would you rather drive? Did you upgrade your ’85 GT suspension? If so, does it ride the same like ’88 GT, better or worse?
Fiero Vice, where are you located? There may be someone here that has a car for sale close to you. I have an 86 GT 5 spd in great shape and would consider selling it. I'm in CT
I came across someone’s comment in other forum that he thinks ’87 would be better choice cause he thinks, since ’88 has the revised & better suspension, is the problem. Being specific to one year parts are more expensive and some parts are really hard to find. An early car can be made to handle just as well and better than an ’88 with aftermarket parts.
Should I give up looking for ‘88 GT and focus on finding ’87 GT which is cheaper & more accessible? I read from one of Pennock forums you guys would recommend ’88 GT b/c of suspension issue.
Eh.. contrary to popular belief parts dont fail that often, thus not justifying the argument that some 88 parts being not as easy to find is such a big deal. But also yes with performance upgrades you can make a pre 88 handle great. I think the difference in price for an 88 is maybe 1k on average. I guess you could add up the upgrades you plan to do with a pre 88 and see how that plays out. Alot of selling price seems to be all about mileage on the odometer which cant always be trusted.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 06-16-2015).]
Why is everyone assuming that one wouldn't want to upgrade the suspension in an 88 also? Sure, the 88 suspension is the best as stock, but stock suspension is still stock. And depending on how well the previous owner(s) kept the car maintained, many parts of the suspension may need to be replaced/upgraded anyway. Or if you plan to race, you'll probably want to upgrade pieces.
$1K+ suspension upgrades are still going to be $1K+, regardless of the year. Granted, $1K isn't much of an upgrade. Stock replacement parts to due a total suspension refresh will cost that (if you can find any).
1) The 88 has better designed running gear. BUT, it has a weak point (front wheel bearings). If you need another one or two front bearings, they are harder to find used and none of the aftermarket new ones prove durable like the GM originals. So, that's an issue.
That's a bit misleading. They OEM 88 wheel bearings aren't a "weak point" as in prone to failure. You are correct that finding used ones is difficult and reproductions are not as durable. For a street car, the repros are fine. People who AutoX have had problems with the reproductions, but I'm unaware of any failures in street applications. Still, it is worth noting since that's an 88-specific part that has no readily available OEM level replacement. With 180,000 miles on my Formula, I have replaced one wheel bearing with a used OEM one from a junk yard and the other one is still original.
BTW, was that your car in the video? Nice ride! Thanks for showing.
Nope, not my car. But it's an example of what can be done with an 88. You'll have a much harder time getting to that level with a pre-88. Earlier years *can* be made to handle very well, but the suspension has inherint design limitations you have to work around. The front steering geometry is less than ideal and the rear is prone to bump steer. They can be addressed but after that you're still only comparable to a stock 88.
You can certainly be happy with an '87. I know many people who are. A pre-88 may even be a better choice is you want to do a V8 or large engine swap because the shock towers are slightly farther apart. (part of the 88 suspension geometry redesign).
I think it's telling that one of the "hot" mods to do on an 87 to make it handle is to put an 88 cradle in it.
Why is everyone assuming that one wouldn't want to upgrade the suspension in an 88 also? Sure, the 88 suspension is the best as stock, but stock suspension is still stock. And depending on how well the previous owner(s) kept the car maintained, many parts of the suspension may need to be replaced/upgraded anyway. Or if you plan to race, you'll probably want to upgrade pieces.
$1K+ suspension upgrades are still going to be $1K+, regardless of the year. Granted, $1K isn't much of an upgrade. Stock replacement parts to due a total suspension refresh will cost that (if you can find any).
Thats the kind of open ended part of the OPs post that we dont know, the objective with the car. Since it was a modified GT that got his attention, it could be that heavy mods are expected, in that case.. start with cheap.
Originally posted by 2.5: Thats the kind of open ended part of the OPs post that we dont know, the objective with the car. Since it was a modified GT that got his attention, it could be that heavy mods are expected, in that case.. start with cheap.
That's why I don't like to make specific suggestions without knowing those answers. If one is going to keep it stock and only drive it on the street with no autocross or similar track time at all, then the differences in suspension for the 88 are going to be of almost no consequence, and one would probably be equally happy in an 86 or 87 GT, if what one really wants, is the fastback body on a street-driven car.
If one wants a Fiero to keep stock, and take to autocross on the weekends, then an 88 will be a better starting point, but as has already been mentioned, you will wear the bearings out faster and may be unable to find suitable replacements.
Part of the reason it's harder to find an 88 at a decent price, is simply that there are much fewer of them. It was the last year, and the year with the lowest production numbers. Number of total 88 GTs was less than half of total 87 GTs. Limiting yourself to having an 88 GT limits you to to a very small number of possible cars.
As for installing the 88 cradle in pre-88 cars, it's not that "hot" of a mod to do. Several people have done it, but production numbers make it mathematically impossible for a majority of pre-88 owners to be doing it. I don't have an 88 cradle in my 87, and don't plan to install one in it either.
No misleading intended in any way by using, “weak point”.
My “point” is simply that both the 84-87 and 88 suspension platforms have pros and cons and purchasing either one will perform well with a little suspension work.
One of the many good benefits of owning a fiero, of either platform, is that you can use many aftermarket and GM alternative parts to make your fiero into a high performance car for a very reasonable amount of money.
I like driving each of the cars for various reasons. The suspensions on two of the cars are modified so its not a stock comparison as they ride lower and are stiffer.
You can make an 87 out handle an 88 and visa-versa. Its all about how much you want to modify and spend money on.
Hello Bob, I'm located in Pennsylvania. I'm hoping for 88 GT, but will keep an open mind. How many miles does your 86 GT has? Any pictures? Thanks
Yikes! I grew up in Rustville, PA... not far from Pilorust, OH. I am thinking that you will save a lot of work by looking for a car from outside the rust belt irresepctive of whether you get an 88 or otherwise.
Originally posted by dobey: If one wants a Fiero to keep stock, and take to autocross on the weekends, then an 88 will be a better starting point, but as has already been mentioned, you will wear the bearings out faster and may be unable to find suitable replacements.
I drive the crap out of my cars, which is why I tend to stay away from "one year only" models, even if the volume sellers are technically inferior. I have dealt with way too many cars sitting around collecting dust because replacement parts are unobtanium. I'd rather have something that doesn't work quite as well but works all the time. Which isn't to suggest that '88s are unmaintainable, only that they might be in certain ways or at certain times.
I have an 87 GT (5 speed) and an 88 GT (440T auto). I bought my 87 new and have not abused it and I enjoy driving that a lot. The 88 (bought used in 1996) does handle better, but again I don't push either car any more as they do have a lot of miles on them and as I am well over 65 years old so the issues I have is getting in and out of the cars.
If you want to "race" the Fieros find a good one but don't expect a lot as the cars and technology is about 30 years old. Parts for 88s are a bit harder to find.
Thanks for clearing that up about fuel injected engine. Then, what could be the problem? It’d be nice to know for future reference. I noticed many Fiero owners had similar problem with earlier years.
Yeah, you’re right it's crazy to pay premium price for an 88. I had an opportunity to buy '88 for $3,200 with 67K mileages recently. I thought that was a good deal, but the seller failed to answer my list of questions after several correspondences & sold it to someone else local. That’s why I’m confused after reading other forums where others said ’88 is still well worth the price. Like you said, it’s not much difference at all. I can always upgrade ’87 Fiero to ’88 level or better. So, what am I missing here? What parts are so special?
Yeah, I thought $3K was way too much too for that '87. That’s why I thought about making an offer of $1K & see what they say. But before I do that, I want to hear from members of this wonderful club on why I should stay the course to find ’88 instead of ’87.
By the way, how do you copy certain quotes from previous conversations. Still trying to get the hang of this forum. Thanks, Patrick, for following up.
An 87 that doesn't run is worth maybe $300 tops. If I were doing it again I'd find a nice 88 with no issues and then start negotiating. Every once in a while someone here will sell a nicely modified one for reasonable money. So what do you want? Original or modified? Daily driver or weekend warrior?
I've got an 88. Have had mostly 88s since 1997. I've never had any great trouble finding spare parts. I've also got an 84, but the suspension has been modded to a fare-thee-well, so I can't comment on the earlier ride quality. Mine mostly rides like a conestoga wagon. I've done similar mods on the 88 and it still rides smoothly.
I actually sold an 85 GT, that I had purchased new, because I didn't like how it drove.
------------------ Raydar 88 Formula IMSA Fastback. 4.9, NVG T550 Praise the Lowered!
Originally posted by Hudini: An 87 that doesn't run is worth maybe $300 tops. If I were doing it again I'd find a nice 88 with no issues and then start negotiating. Every once in a while someone here will sell a nicely modified one for reasonable money. So what do you want? Original or modified? Daily driver or weekend warrior?
I'd say if it's a GT, the chassis is solid and rust free, and the body is good, it's worth at least $800. If it's not running and most everything is good on it, you could make triple the money just parting it out. Just the front fascia you should be able to sell for $2-300, if it's in excellent condition with no cracks/holes.
My 87 GT isn't running, but there's no way in hell I'd ever sell it for only $300. (I wouldn't even sell it for $800, as it has lots of new parts on it that cost a few grand total.)
I'd say if it's a GT, the chassis is solid and rust free, and the body is good, it's worth at least $800. If it's not running and most everything is good on it, you could make triple the money just parting it out. Just the front fascia you should be able to sell for $2-300, if it's in excellent condition with no cracks/holes.
My 87 GT isn't running, but there's no way in hell I'd ever sell it for only $300. (I wouldn't even sell it for $800, as it has lots of new parts on it that cost a few grand total.)
Parting it out depends upon your location. I had to trash a bunch of parts because no one wants to drive to pickup, even free. Yup, you can part out the small stuff, but things like body panels.... they are harder to get rid of.
Basically, you can break even on an $800 fiero.... unless the parts are like new
(I am still trying to sell 2 passenger-side t-tops.... no one would buy the complete top unit including weatherstripping... so I had to part it out. I already put the frame in my scrap metal pile. I am getting to the point to just toss the panels as shipping them is a pain and people don't want to pay a reasonable price for a good part.)
Originally posted by jaskispyder: Parting it out depends upon your location. I had to trash a bunch of parts because no one wants to drive to pickup, even free. Yup, you can part out the small stuff, but things like body panels.... they are harder to get rid of.
Basically, you can break even on an $800 fiero.... unless the parts are like new
(I am still trying to sell 2 passenger-side t-tops.... no one would buy the complete top unit including weatherstripping... so I had to part it out. I already put the frame in my scrap metal pile. I am getting to the point to just toss the panels as shipping them is a pain and people don't want to pay a reasonable price for a good part.)
It will probably take patience to sell most parts, even the small ones. There just aren't that many Fieros still kicking around, and lots of people want to do swaps and such. I'll be trying to sell many of the parts off my car, as I'm doing a swap and changing many other things besides the engine/trans, but I certainly don't expect to unload all the stuff quickly.
Heck, if you have near perfect tail lights for a fastback, you can sell just those for over $1K, since they are so rare. T-tops will be hard to sell indeed, because most people realize how leaky they can be, and just don't want them. Mostly, selling Fiero parts is just going to be a matter of how lucky you are with timing, and how patient you are with getting the parts sold. It took me almost a whole year to sell the complete non-running 85 GT I had.
T-tops will be hard to sell indeed, because most people realize how leaky they can be, and just don't want them.
I'm kinda surprised that people don't want T-roof parts. Heck, I'd buy them if I come across an opportunity. I think it's awesome having t-roof. If you know anyone that want to sell it, let me know.
Parting it out depends upon your location. I had to trash a bunch of parts because no one wants to drive to pickup, even free. Yup, you can part out the small stuff, but things like body panels.... they are harder to get rid of.
Basically, you can break even on an $800 fiero.... unless the parts are like new
(I am still trying to sell 2 passenger-side t-tops.... no one would buy the complete top unit including weatherstripping... so I had to part it out. I already put the frame in my scrap metal pile. I am getting to the point to just toss the panels as shipping them is a pain and people don't want to pay a reasonable price for a good part.)
That's a shame that people are throwing those parts away. If I had a big warehouse, I'd store them all just in case. Cause in the future, it's gonna get harder to find those parts.
I've got an 88. Have had mostly 88s since 1997. I've never had any great trouble finding spare parts. I've also got an 84, but the suspension has been modded to a fare-thee-well, so I can't comment on the earlier ride quality. Mine mostly rides like a conestoga wagon. I've done similar mods on the 88 and it still rides smoothly.
I actually sold an 85 GT, that I had purchased new, because I didn't like how it drove.
I drive the crap out of my cars, which is why I tend to stay away from "one year only" models, even if the volume sellers are technically inferior. I have dealt with way too many cars sitting around collecting dust because replacement parts are unobtanium. I'd rather have something that doesn't work quite as well but works all the time. Which isn't to suggest that '88s are unmaintainable, only that they might be in certain ways or at certain times.
That's a risk I'd have to take if I decide to get 88 Fiero. I don't race them, but joyride.
Pumping the gas pedal on a fuel injected engine to start it does nothing.
