I have a 1984 Fiero, with the Iron duke. To me the Fiero should have at least double the horsepower it had stock, i mean, Fieros are awesome enough for it. So I want to do an engine swap to a V8, or a real powerful V6, whatever is easier. But my dad got me back to reality by preaching to me about that I would need to swap my transmission as well, and would have to get an automatic transmission. So, now my actual question: Is it possible to swap a V8 into my Fiero without replacing the transmission? And what would be the engine which would be easiest to get in there?
You could reuse the trans, but I would not recommend the one you have in an 84. And if you get a decent Fiero Trans like the Getrag 5 speed you always have to treat it like it could break any minute. I blew up a 5 speed with my 3800SC swap, and went to the auto meant for the trans. I have built a couple 3800's with manuals and never liked the gearing, or the thought that I felt like I had to be gentle with it. It can be done, but do your research.
An 84' transmission just won't handle it. Im sure some could argue but like Mike Gonzalez was saying (didn't notice you were from Colorado, !) the transmission could blow up at any point.
On the other hand, swapping a new transmission in while doing the engine swap wouldn't take that much more effort.
A common swap is the 3.8SC (L67) that came in plenty of cars and was awarded one of the best engines the year it came out which was in 97'.
A 4.9L V8 from Cadillac is also a good option if you want to go for sound more so than power, it's also a VERY reliable engine that gets a lot of credit from the Cadillac fans (like myself.)
The transmission I would highly recommend is an F23, sure you could buy the getrag from an 86-88 Fiero and end up breaking it eventually, or you could go for a transmission that is newer and hasn't been beaten as much.
A 4 speed muncie that came in the 85-86 Fiero GT's (maybe SE as well) is a strong transmission as well.
None the less, you have PLENTY of options, make sure you do your research before you decide on one engine tho.
------------------ Every fiero has a story, It's our job to keep that story alive.
[This message has been edited by zzzhuh (edited 03-31-2015).]
Welcome to the forum From what I have read on this forum, doing a swap is not an easy job and the 84 has different wiring so it is harder to do. I recommend you do a lot of research on this forum, there are a lot of swaps documented, some finished and some unfinished. If you know a mechanic or a Fiero owner who has done a swap even better. Also plan on spending at least a couple of thousand dollars.
If you're only experience is with the Duke, and you think you need about double the power of it, then maybe the best thing for you to do right now would be to sell your car and buy a different Fiero with the V6 instead. The 2.8 V6 has about 1.5x the power of the Duke does.
You might also want to look to see if a swapped Fiero is for sale anywhere near you. Doing any swap is quite a lot of work, even more so on the 84. Buying a car that already has been swapped with a 3.4 DOHC, 3800, or 4.9 will get you what you want, and save you time and money (assuming the swap is done halfway decently of course).
I'm pleased to see that this thread hasn't degenerated into one of those 'your engine choice is crap' threads. Every bit of advice you have received is good. Use the 'search'.
Having done a 3800SC swap in and 84 I can say its not any more difficult, just different. And that 99% of the swap wiring info out here wont pertain to your swap. It just takes some digging to find the right info, I think I have it all on my hard drive still. You can pick up and NA 3800 and trans pretty cheap most places and swap it it as a complete unit.
You dont need a car lift, although it would be nice. Most of us lift the car off the cradle using and engine hoist.
I looked for V8 Fieros for sale, but there's only like 6 normal Fieros for sale in whole Georgia.
I looked on V8 Archie, and it says there that I can use my stock transmission. I am planning on buying their V8 swap kit, the economy one. Because it comes with instructions, so I think that that will really help. Anyone used their kit?
I looked for V8 Fieros for sale, but there's only like 6 normal Fieros for sale in whole Georgia.
I looked on V8 Archie, and it says there that I can use my stock transmission. I am planning on buying their V8 swap kit, the economy one. Because it comes with instructions, so I think that that will really help. Anyone used their kit?
What engine are you using? Do you really need a V8? Archie's kits are for the SBC or LSx series V8 engines. If you're going to swap in a 4.9, the kit isn't necessary, and won't work. The economy kit is also just that, economy. A lot of fabrication is required, and you'll have to buy many parts separately. You'll also need to know what year SBC you're planning on using, before buying the kit, as the 1 piece main seal version is $150 more than the 2 piece seal version for the older engines.
It seems like you don't really know what you want exactly yet.
Don't take this question the wrong way...but are you mature enough to drive a car with that much horsepower? Why do you want more power?
What about the mechanical skills and tools to do an engine swap?
What about your budget? Even a simple 4.9L V8 swap could cost you $2,500-$3,000 (though some resourceful people have done it for a little less).
...I'm only asking these questions based on the impression I get from what you have posted so far. I have the feeling that you may be better off just enjoying your Fiero as it is for a while longer.
Here's a link to my build (4.9L into an 88...but it'll give you the idea of what is involved). There are links to some other 4.9L builds in my thread.
What engine are you using? Do you really need a V8? Archie's kits are for the SBC or LSx series V8 engines. If you're going to swap in a 4.9, the kit isn't necessary, and won't work. The economy kit is also just that, economy. A lot of fabrication is required, and you'll have to buy many parts separately. You'll also need to know what year SBC you're planning on using, before buying the kit, as the 1 piece main seal version is $150 more than the 2 piece seal version for the older engines.
It seems like you don't really know what you want exactly yet.
No, I am just doing research for now, I want to find out what is best and easiest, all that good stuff.
Don't take this question the wrong way...but are you mature enough to drive a car with that much horsepower? Why do you want more power?
What about the mechanical skills and tools to do an engine swap?
What about your budget? Even a simple 4.9L V8 swap could cost you $2,500-$3,000 (though some resourceful people have done it for a little less).
...I'm only asking these questions based on the impression I get from what you have posted so far. I have the feeling that you may be better off just enjoying your Fiero as it is for a while longer.
Here's a link to my build (4.9L into an 88...but it'll give you the idea of what is involved). There are links to some other 4.9L builds in my thread.
You're right, I am going to enjoy my Fiero for a while first. But I am just already starting my research so I am ready in a year, maybe two. Thank for the link I will check it out.
No, I am just doing research for now, I want to find out what is best and easiest, all that good stuff.
The absolute easiest to swap into an 84, and get a meaningful increase in power, would be an SD4. But they are rare and can be quite expensive.
Anything else is going to require a lot of work. The 84 harness is different. The 84 cradle doesn't have the V6 mount provisions. Research is good, but do you have the skills and tools necessary to do a proper engine swap? If not, you're probably going to be paying someone else to do it, which will cause the cost to go way up, very fast. Nothing is cheap when you're paying $100/hr for labor.
You haven't really stated what you want or need. Without that, anyone stating what they think is best, has nothing to do with what you want or need. It's what they think is best for them. Nobody can say if a 3800, Ecotec, 3.4 DOHC, 4.9, or LS7 would be best for you. That's something you need to figure out yourself. We also don't know what your skill set is, so we have no idea what would be easy for you. Just because one thing is easy for some of us, doesn't necessarily mean it will be easy for you. Even for something that is easy, doesn't mean you will get it done quickly, or cheaply, either.
The absolute easiest to swap into an 84, and get a meaningful increase in power, would be an SD4. But they are rare and can be quite expensive.
Anything else is going to require a lot of work. The 84 harness is different. The 84 cradle doesn't have the V6 mount provisions. Research is good, but do you have the skills and tools necessary to do a proper engine swap? If not, you're probably going to be paying someone else to do it, which will cause the cost to go way up, very fast. Nothing is cheap when you're paying $100/hr for labor.
You haven't really stated what you want or need. Without that, anyone stating what they think is best, has nothing to do with what you want or need. It's what they think is best for them. Nobody can say if a 3800, Ecotec, 3.4 DOHC, 4.9, or LS7 would be best for you. That's something you need to figure out yourself. We also don't know what your skill set is, so we have no idea what would be easy for you. Just because one thing is easy for some of us, doesn't necessarily mean it will be easy for you. Even for something that is easy, doesn't mean you will get it done quickly, or cheaply, either.
I can totally see what you are saying. But the skill or tools won't be the problem, if I can't do it I have a lot of friends who are mechanic, or just very good with cars. I was searching a lot and it is hard to find good info because there is so much other stuff which doesn't have to do anything with it. So that's why i posted the question.
If you're only experience is with the Duke, and you think you need about double the power of it, then maybe the best thing for you to do right now would be to sell your car and buy a different Fiero with the V6 instead. The 2.8 V6 has about 1.5x the power of the Duke does.
).
I thought the Duke was 85-90 and the 2.8 was 135-140?
Your least expensive and easiest swap is to find a 91-93 Cadillac with the 4.9 as a donor. I got mine for $500 with everything, however, I threw out most of it because I was carbing and had the 4 speed Muncie.
With the auto from the Cadillac you'll find the major issue will be motor mounts. You'll want to hard mount it to the frame. It is a smooth runner and you won't get very much vibration from it. The torque is heavy and I went through 3 or 4 motor mounts before I got serious about them.
Pull the Cadillac ECM and you can use the stock exhaust. The rear exhaust flange will clear the trunk firewall and you can simply run a 2.5" pipe down an T it out. Not expensive but it has to be done right. You'll want somebody who is a good welder. BTW, the car goes like stink so you'll have to watch yourself with the long arm of the local law.
I thought the Duke was 85-90 and the 2.8 was 135-140?
Yes. 1/2 of 90 is 45. 90 + 45 = 135. That's 1.5x the HP. I think the torque is a little more than 1.5x with the Duke around 111 or so and the 2.8 around 173 or so.
Originally posted by dobey: Yes. 1/2 of 90 is 45. 90 + 45 = 135. That's 1.5x the HP. I think the torque is a little more than 1.5x with the Duke around 111 or so and the 2.8 around 173 or so.
Oops I was reading it as twice and a half the power, dont know why. When he said he wanted double ti must have had me thinking goofy when I read your reply.
I have a 86 4 speed tranny with my 383 V8 ....if you dont exagerate it should be just fine .... I will be changing over to a 6 speed F40 tranny soon though. My 4 speed is working really fine presently but find that the RPMs are high and gas tank is small
I have a 86 4 speed tranny with my 383 V8 ....if you dont exagerate it should be just fine .... I will be changing over to a 6 speed F40 tranny soon though. My 4 speed is working really fine presently but find that the RPMs are high and gas tank is small
Haha yeah I bet its great on gas, I want my Fiero to be pretty much like yours. It is awesome!
Your least expensive and easiest swap is to find a 91-93 Cadillac with the 4.9 as a donor. I got mine for $500 with everything, however, I threw out most of it because I was carbing and had the 4 speed Muncie.
With the auto from the Cadillac you'll find the major issue will be motor mounts. You'll want to hard mount it to the frame. It is a smooth runner and you won't get very much vibration from it. The torque is heavy and I went through 3 or 4 motor mounts before I got serious about them.
Pull the Cadillac ECM and you can use the stock exhaust. The rear exhaust flange will clear the trunk firewall and you can simply run a 2.5" pipe down an T it out. Not expensive but it has to be done right. You'll want somebody who is a good welder. BTW, the car goes like stink so you'll have to watch yourself with the long arm of the local law.
Arn
Thanks, I guess I will be going for a cadillac v8 than. I will try to stick to the law as good as I can haha
So, is there a manual tranny you can put on a V8 , and drop clutch it, rev it out, etc and not have an issue?
If you are looking for a manual transmission where you can drive it like 16 y/o with a stolen car and expect it to be issue free for years... the short answer is no... none of the stock FWD manual transmission will be as bullet proof as, for example, a T56 is. The other issue is it isn't just the transmission, many people have sheared off the spline shaft on the tripod as it goes into the transmission, others have sheared off the spline shaft at the CV end.
Now on the other hand, you can focus your build towards improving transmission life, still have lots of fun and abuse, and have decent reliability.
My LS4/F40 car has 382 whp and I shift it at 7k rpm. I did 12 passes in the 1/4 mile, 10 autocross heats, and 8 3S runs all in a single weekend with a lot of rapid clutch releases and WOT upshifts, in addition to all the WOT runs for tuning and just beating on the car for fun. I have driven the car daily in the warmer months for the past 2 years and about 15K miles and have let several customers drive and beat on the car as well. The only drivetrain related part that has ever broken or caused any issue was the shifter cable snapping... so I fixed that. Overall I would say my LS4/F40 Fiero is quite reliable and I can beat on it and do stupid things with it w/o it immediately breaking, but I also know that that type of behavior will lead to an eventual parts failure. The reliability of my combo has many more factors at play than just the engine or transmission used though, its the parts selection across the entire drivetrain from camshaft selection to wheel/tire side choices that helps.
You might also want to look to see if a swapped Fiero is for sale anywhere near you. Doing any swap is quite a lot of work, even more so on the 84. Buying a car that already has been swapped with a 3.4 DOHC, 3800, or 4.9 will get you what you want, and save you time and money (assuming the swap is done halfway decently of course).
This is the best option by far. They come up for sale all the time. Unless you really, really, really just want to do the swap for the experience factor, I'd wait for a good swapped fiero to come available. Just make sure you can go inspect it properly before buying...
This is the best option by far. They come up for sale all the time. Unless you really, really, really just want to do the swap for the experience factor, I'd wait for a good swapped fiero to come available. Just make sure you can go inspect it properly before buying...
I have looked, and will keep looking. But I will also just keep going on my research for doing it myself. Any idea how much they go for?
I looked for V8 Fieros for sale, but there's only like 6 normal Fieros for sale in whole Georgia.
Don't feel bad. When I got my first Fiero (and 2nd, 3rd and 4th), there were almost zero swapped Fieros for sale. (And very few out there at all.) There were a few SBC swaps (mostly Archies but a few with the crappy Zumalt kit), a few 4.9s and a few 3.4 Camaro motors (not DOHC). No 3.4 DOHCs, almost no 3800s, etc, etc. The prices on the few Fieros that had swapped motors was outrageous.
Now that I've had a few, I'm looking for a swapped Fiero this time around.
Don't feel bad. When I got my first Fiero (and 2nd, 3rd and 4th), there were almost zero swapped Fieros for sale. (And very few out there at all.) There were a few SBC swaps (mostly Archies but a few with the crappy Zumalt kit), a few 4.9s and a few 3.4 Camaro motors (not DOHC). No 3.4 DOHCs, almost no 3800s, etc, etc. The prices on the few Fieros that had swapped motors was outrageous.
Now that I've had a few, I'm looking for a swapped Fiero this time around.
So did you do any yourself? And what engines did you have in your Fieros? What one did you like best?
So did you do any yourself? And what engines did you have in your Fieros? What one did you like best?
I have done the 3.4 pushrod/Isuzu, 4.3 CPI/4T60, 4.9/Isuzu (twice), SBC (283/Isuzu, 350 carb/Isuzu, 350 PFI/Getrag, 383 SBC/Proflow/getrag, 350 24x OBD2 with HSR/F23), and LS4/F40. I have also driven two 3800SCs (one 4T65e-hd and one Getrag) and one 3.4 TDC/Getrag...
Easiest was the 3.4 pushrod, it is pretty much plug & play with no fabrication needed, but it is also the least improvement in HP/TQ.
For the rest of the swaps, my opinion of "easy" doesn't translate well to others. I am a military trained mechanic, degreed Mechanical Engineer, skilled hobbyist welder/metal fabricator/machinist with fabrication and machining equipment in my garage (currently in storage due to relocation). More often than not, I just make what I need when doing swaps and that gives me more freedom to focus on visual impact of the swap. I tend to do a lot of small unnecessary tweaks or mods just for the simple uncluttered look.
The LS4/F40 was certainly the hardest swap for me...
Easiest was the 3.4 pushrod, it is pretty much plug & play with no fabrication needed, but it is also the least improvement in HP/TQ.
For the rest of the swaps, my opinion of "easy" doesn't translate well to others. I am a military trained mechanic, degreed Mechanical Engineer, skilled hobbyist welder/metal fabricator/machinist with fabrication and machining equipment in my garage (currently in storage due to relocation). More often than not, I just make what I need when doing swaps and that gives me more freedom to focus on visual impact of the swap. I tend to do a lot of small unnecessary tweaks or mods just for the simple uncluttered look.
The LS4/F40 was certainly the hardest swap for me...
!) the transmission could blow up at any point. 
From what I have read on this forum, doing a swap is not an easy job and the 84 has different wiring so it is harder to do. I recommend you do a lot of research on this forum, there are a lot of swaps documented, some finished and some unfinished. If you know a mechanic or a Fiero owner who has done a swap even better. Also plan on spending at least a couple of thousand dollars.
This is the best option by far. They come up for sale all the time. Unless you really, really, really just want to do the swap for the experience factor, I'd wait for a good swapped fiero to come available. Just make sure you can go inspect it properly before buying...
