lots of updates to post and took some pictures i can post tomorrow. Im currently stuck on something unexpected with the intake manifold swap... i was installing the new gasket for the obd2 intake and realized there will be nothing covering the old slits in each cylinder head intake port for the EGR system on the 94.
Those can be filled with epoxy. Carefully file it smooth afterward. Also, putting a '95-'99 water manifold on the '94 engine blocks off the EGR passages where the water manifold bolts to the cylinder heads.
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Originally posted by mcfrandon: im also concerned with this type of newer gasket and the fact that it will only be using 2 bolts per side instead of 5. just another bump in the road i guess
Sounds like you have a '00 or newer intake manifold... That won't fit the older engines without a lot more work.
No its off a 97 seville. there are 2 gaskets, one for each bank. They 2000 and later ones i believe it was just a gasket on the manifold you replace all 8 individually. The 4 bolts that held the 94 intake on still fit in the new intake and also secure the beauty cover, but when i pulled it off the 97 there were 3 more bolts on each side and on the 94 heads they are just alignment holes with no threads. Im sure it will work just concerned if it will have enough pressure to it to seal this different gasket. Ill post pics in a few after i resize them
heres the new gasket which looks like it will be a close fit and i might have to shave the alignment dowels off the ends. Also the slits i will have to fill in.
this one shows how i routed the new coolant pipe on the firewall reusing one of the metal pipes that was there from the factory... not sure what its original purpose was.
heres a picture of my solid dogbones. right side is a heim joint on the right. On the left that dogbone is welded solid and can be adjusted by sliding it on the mounts
more pics to come off my old phone when i get another minute and its charged up
ok guess i really didnt have a whole lot of new pics but here is the actual car getting the engine now
also here is the jeep motor mount i used and like i said they sell them in poly as well. its a lot sturdier than the tranny mount i was using.
When i was swapping the setup into this new car i decided to buy some new tranny mounts since they are only $5 each but after installing them i could never get the engine to sit level. The mounts must of been taller or a lot more stout becuase to get this thing level i had to adjust the engine so far up to where there was no way to make clearance for the valve cover on the passenger side.. so i just put the old ones in. They aren't ripped or broken, just seem a little soft and look cracked. I really had no other choice, so i dont know if it was those mounts specifically or what but they had no give at all and one actually broke away from the rubber when i was trying to level it.
shes running well with the new ecu. no codes yet. still need to try and hook up the AC lines. I have the metal lines that go to the car and the ones that go to the AC compressor, but i need to put a high pressure switch somewhere along one of those lines. just not sure what kind of T fitting i can get to work and what kind of switch to run. In a wiring diagram i have it shows multiple terminals on the switch with one going to the ECU one to power and another to some other switch. I figure i can run a 2 terminal switch just need to plumb it
I have her torn down once again. lost a rod bearing on #1 and 2. Also she smoked pretty good on deceleration but once i got the pistons out i could see why.. the oil rings could barely move they were so caked in with old oil and carbon, the other rings were not much better. Anyways working on a complete engine rebuild now and also getting cams and a retune!
Torn it apart far enough yet to see how hurt the crank is?
Rod bearing problems are very rare in Northstars. I snagged a Y2K block that had been replaced under warranty... popped a rod with 75 miles on the clock. The big end was still bolted onto the crankshaft and the engine probably still had good oil pressure, even with holes in the sides and top of the block!
Yeah it's completely torn down. Block is getting a quick deglazing/hone. Got a new crank, bearings, and timing kit. I think something got into it because once I got it apart I found that the tensioner on the smaller timing chain that goes just to the crank had gone metal to metal.
The chain guides are cheap insurance when you have the engine apart. If they were about .060" thicker, they'd be eternal because the links wear into them until the rollers start to ride on them, then they stop wearing... but at that point the way GM designed them they're dangerously thin where they've worn. Oh well... the Northstar with just a few simple design tweaks would have been a legendary engine, but GM missed the boat.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 09-18-2015).]
That would of been nice. I guess when I had it apart the first time I didnt really look at them to close or anything, or notice it being out of the ordinary. Im getting it all back together now, but came across the intermediate cog with the 3 sprockets being pretty worn, i dont know how smooth the shaft it rides on needs to be but it definitely has some grooving in it, I have 2 sets of intermediate cogs and shafts and they both look like something went thru them. On the 94 cog the shaft has an oil groove in it, but on the 97 cog the shaft is completely flat and the cog has the oil groove. I dont know if I should try to find another or if thats common or a big deal
well i got it all back together complete rebuild, new cams, tune and all. I put less than 20 miles on it and it started what sounds like a rod knock. Im really at a loss here considering whatever pieces of metal probably went through the new cams and everything else. I think i will abandon this thing for a while.
yeah I decided to pull the pan and look at the rod bearings and the same thing happened that had happened the first time... spun the bearing on the cylinder 1... I dont get it. I changed the rod out and platigauged it, and it turned out good what the heck. Doesnt look like there was much if any damage done to bearing 2, and i have not looked at the others yet, and the crank looks fine.
Originally posted by mcfrandon: the cranks looks unscathed
And that's what good bearings are supposed to do... If you're lucky you can drop new bearings in it and get back on the road... HOWEVER, you would be wise to split the case and clean out the oil passages from the filter to the crank.
That tensioner's beautiful. That engine must be shy a few oil changes.
Unfortunately i dont have the time to pull it back put, since i will be moving soon, so i will put a new bearing in and hope for the best. Both times the bearing went i was coming down off 6k rpm. I wonder if it ran out of oil or something, i know the oil level was toward the mid fill line. The first main journal supplies oil for the heads/intermediate shaft, and the first rod bearing or 2. Just trying to come up with answers to this nonsense!
i cleaned the crank with brake clean and compressed air.
I also have some interesting leak somewhere around cylinder #2 exhause port that i cannot pinpoint
I was able to get the new rod bearings in tonight and get her all buttoned back up. it was well within range on the plastigauge. however after it warmed up the oil pressure still reads low at idle about 10psi at 1krpms. im thinking of getting a different oil pump. sure wish i didnt throw away the old one now. the noise is gone though.
You work quick. What pressure sensor are you using? IIRC, there was a recall or update for Northstar oil pump relief/regulator pistons getting stuck resulting in low oil pressure.
I replaced the oil pump today and that did not help at all but worth a shot... it wasnt as difficult as i thought it would be in car. hardest part is getting that dang bolt loose.
Im using the 88 fiero oil pressure switch. Before the rebuild it was just just on the line before the red zone, 20psi i would say. Now you can see by the picture it looks to be about 10... apparently the idle minimum is 5psi, but that just seems odd that it would be less after all new bearings and new pump. I dont think it would make any sense for the cams to change the oil pressure would it? thats probably the only different thing now untested.
I read about the pressure relief valve in the oil pump but both pumps were brand new, and still make 10 psi at idle so i dont think it would have any if it were open
The Fiero dash gauge isn't exactly accurate/reliable. Does the oil pressure climb appropriately when you bring the RPM up? Have you verified with a mechanical gauge?
I popped a street elbow into the side of my oil filter adapter so that the pressure switch points down next to the filter instead of out through the mount bracket... *SOOOOO* much easier to work on.
Yeah it climbs with the rpm like it should. Around 2krpm cruising at 40psi. Ive drivin it quite a bit today so im not too worried at this point. Its just very annoying when the light comes on.
I havent used a mechanical gauge... i dont have one maybe i could rent one... i wonder if i should attempt to clean the sender unit. I dont have trouble getting to it.
turns out there is a crack in cylinder 2 exhaust port. im jb welding it for now and will more than likely get a new head.. eventually. theres also an odd popping noise coming from the cam cover, im not sure if that has anything to do with the different cams or not.. sound like a high spring tension popping/releasing
ok another update... I have the engine out and tore down yet again for my 3rd rod bearing replacement. The first time it went out it was the #1 bearing and i did a complete rebuild with new rings, reground crank, timing kit, oil pump... everything. Second time i lost the first bearing again. just pulled the pan and replaced the rod bearings-- crank was ok. now im on my third round... crank is ruined this time so i have another reman coming with matching bearings... the guy at the machine shop has me sold on resizing the rods. Im also thinking about ordering arp bolts but i just fee like that is overkill and as far as ive heard these engines spin up to 8500 with the stock bottom end.
Since having the cylinders honed and reringed it still seems to use a bit of oil and smokes. Im not sure how but everything is new and it still uses it. Id love to get that fixed some day. on top of that, chrfab that sold me the cams is recommending i add another quart if im going to run it up to 8500. from what i have read its a no no because the crankshaft will aerate it.
while i have it apart i decided to take the flywheel/clutch in for them to look at because it chatters like crazy. He said more than likely its the very hard friction material on the pressure plate side so looks like i will have to deal with it.
The only reason you would need to resize the rods is if you spun a rod bearing. That's it. Also, fracture split powdered metal rods require *OVER*sized bearings and can not be resized like machined rods.
The Northstar won't rev to 8500 very long on the stock bottom end.
Overfilling the sump isn't necessary unless you're pulling more than 1g lateral.
Did you use stock pistons and rods after honing cylinders? Then your bore clearance is out of spec. That's why it uses oil.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 01-06-2016).]
The guy at the machine shop informed me about the cracked rod setup. I have several extra rods so he is just going to spec them out and weight match them.
as far as the hone goes it was just to deglaze the walls for the new rings. little if any material was taken off. still less than 2 thou piston to wall clearance. Im probably going to get some rings from the dealer and give them a whirl
They are good engines once you know all the hangups and how to handle them correctly. At the time i had it honed, i had no idea that GM recommends just slapping new rings in it without touching the cylinders. Im just going to run this setup until I can afford to put better parts in it. the car is still awesome to drive
thanks. turns out that 6 of the 8 rods were no good as in the bore when torqued down was too large. luckily i had extras laying around and they were ok! back together we go
They are good engines once you know all the hangups and how to handle them correctly. At the time i had it honed, i had no idea that GM recommends just slapping new rings in it without touching the cylinders. Im just going to run this setup until I can afford to put better parts in it. the car is still awesome to drive
The Northstar liners are centrifugally cast grey iron. They are extremely hard. Silicon carbide stones just polish them. A machine shop needs aluminum oxide stones to actually hone them. The chance that they're worn is extremely small.
If i would of known all that in the first place i wouldnt of honed it, but too late now till i get a new block to build. all back together and running pretty smooth
been trying to drive it more often to try and get things seated nicely before i run it hard. seems to use a quart every hundred miles. holy cow. in that case i might be looking for a new short block sooner than later if it doesnt slow down. after doing some searching looks like either GM or hastings rings are best with no hone of course, and might as well put rods and maybe pistons in it
been trying to drive it more often to try and get things seated nicely before i run it hard. seems to use a quart every hundred miles. holy cow. in that case i might be looking for a new short block sooner than later if it doesnt slow down. after doing some searching looks like either GM or hastings rings are best with no hone of course, and might as well put rods and maybe pistons in it
Can I ask why you are putting yourself through this misery? Is there a particular reason you feel the need to use those time bombs? I would have had a SBC or an LS engine in there by now with a lot more power and a lot less cost and headache.
I feel for you man but let this be a lesson learned. Caddy owners don't even want those things.
i get that question all the time.. just personal preference really. I dont want to be another SBC or LS guy we have handfulls of them running around... its nice to have something different even if it is a pain. I do like the fact that its DOHC and mates up with the tranny easily. I will get it right eventually but for now im going to get a thousand miles on this motor and see where we are.
