I currently have a stock 2.8 in my 87 gt with no Cats Looking to see if there are some mods or bolt ons for just a few hundred bucks to get a little more horsepower?? Any help or Ideas would be appreciated! Thanks everyone. (I am not going to swap the engine lol)
Thanks, might get to that eventually. Any ideas for bolt ons?? Or is there not much to do with bolt ons haha. I think this engine was already well made as it is but just trying to see whats out there to do to it
Under-drive pulley called the "power pulley". good for 2-3 hp. Add on the idler pulley at the same time for no belt squeal
1.6 roller tip rockers, good for more revs and more torque
Don't get sucked into the ignition box. You don't need it. But, a high output coil helps
Try synthetic oil. It is slipperier but on an old engine it can find leaks. When I changed from standard 5w30 to synth, my vacuum when up 2psi at idle. That is a good power indicator.
If you go deeper, porting your heads is the next step. Here is my old thread. I did it for carb, but the principles are pretty much the same
Thanks a bunch, now what do you all think of turbo? Im sure there are threads on here already for a turbo fiero. I was just pondering.. how much work it would be to turbo charge it. It would be pretty darn cool haha. I was thinking in stead of rebuilding and putting new parts in, i could just use a small cheap turbo pushing only a few lbs.? Ideas.. Good or bad idea.?
The issue with the turbo is the chip. You need someone who can do a new chip for you to feed more gas where you need it.
With the turbo though, you can get good results without head work or any other expense. If you turbo, you will want a bigger exhaust but you won't need a muffler.
If you go to 60degreev6.com there are lots of guys on that site who have done turbos
Weight reduction doesn't cost anything (unless you start making lighter versions of things)
If you're planning on buying new wheels, take the weight of them into consideration. A lot of aftermarket wheels are stupid heavy (24+lbs vs say 17 if you shop around), and turning heavy wheels takes a lot more effort/power than a lighter one.
So back to the turbo idea.. If I get the turbo I could run it without an intercooler to make it a lot wasier and quicker install. Or get a kit with pipes and an intercooler and connect my "cheaper turbo" to it. I am not rebuilding my engine or anything so I just want to push a few psi with a small turbo. How much (estimatately) do you think it would cost to have it all installed? Would I also need to get a new exhaust manifold? Or can they customize those? Thanks in advance
So back to the turbo idea.. If I get the turbo I could run it without an intercooler to make it a lot wasier and quicker install. Or get a kit with pipes and an intercooler and connect my "cheaper turbo" to it. I am not rebuilding my engine or anything so I just want to push a few psi with a small turbo. How much (estimatately) do you think it would cost to have it all installed? Would I also need to get a new exhaust manifold? Or can they customize those? Thanks in advance
How much to pay someone (like a local exhaust shop) to install a turbo? Probably at least $2500. There are no bolt-on kits, and quality shops charge quite a bit for custom exhaust, which you will need.
So is there any way possible to use the stock exhasut manifold and pipes to connect a turbo mount? I don't mess with turbos too much as you can tell. Thanks
So is there any way possible to use the stock exhasut manifold and pipes to connect a turbo mount? I don't mess with turbos too much as you can tell. Thanks
You'll have to replace the Y-pipe with a custom made section for the turbo.
I wouldn't waste the money on a turbo for a worn out stock engine in a Fiero.
Save your money, and keep it maintained. What condition are your tires and suspension in? Steering? Brakes? Is it an automatic or manual?
What you're probably missing from driving your car isn't power.
I wouldn't recommend a power pulley after using one for about a year.
The power gains were too small to notice and it causes a voltage drop at idle. Not enough to discharge the battery, but enough that it causes the idle to hunt. It's annoying.
Also, i've heard that the alternator is self-regulating (i.e., it will essentially free-wheel if its spinning faster than it needs to) so underdriving it does little.
So back to the turbo idea.. If I get the turbo I could run it without an intercooler to make it a lot wasier and quicker install. Or get a kit with pipes and an intercooler and connect my "cheaper turbo" to it. I am not rebuilding my engine or anything so I just want to push a few psi with a small turbo. How much (estimatately) do you think it would cost to have it all installed? Would I also need to get a new exhaust manifold? Or can they customize those? Thanks in advance
I have a turbo kit on a 3.4 push rod engine and like it because it is a bit different and my original engine was not in the best shape after 100000 miles. However, adding a turbo to a car is not cheap and required custom tuning of the ECM for proper fuel management. I also acquired a car with 65000 miles on a 2.8 turbo engine setup and just about every bearing in the engine was shot. It never turned over again after I got it into the shop for a 3800 SC engine swap. The 2.8 engine is not a very good one to turbo (push rod 3.4 is better in my opinion) and the cost per HP may be higher than a 3800 SC swap (depending on your skills) and a decent engine cost.
I did pull my old/used turbo components and sold them to a PFF member for somewhere around $1700 if memory serves. He still had to do all the installation work and provide a few small items. That is a lot of labor/expense for something which is not the best for a 2.8 engine longevity. If you just want to turbo something take a look at the 4.9, 3800, V8, etc. and see what you can do wrt HP versus cost.
Actually Rodney's underdrive pulley gave me +6rwhp and +8 torque. I already had the '88 alternator conversion done so I just needed the pulley and new belt.
I wouldn't recommend a power pulley after using one for about a year.
The power gains were too small to notice and it causes a voltage drop at idle. Not enough to discharge the battery, but enough that it causes the idle to hunt. It's annoying.
Also, i've heard that the alternator is self-regulating (i.e., it will essentially free-wheel if its spinning faster than it needs to) so underdriving it does little.
For what engine? The crank pulley turns both the water pump and alternator slowly. If you don't upgrade to the 88 alternator you have to change the alternator pulley to speed that back up with a pre-88 alternator. I already have converted to the '88 alternator and don't have those issues since the '88 alternator is 105 or 110 amps and the older ones are like 95 or something like that. Having to spin up the older alternator more reduces the gains.
As I mentioned before, I gained 6hp/8ft*lbs at the wheels with no tuning changes on the same dynojet. I don't know if you can feel 6hp but a dyno doesn't lie.
On a side note, after the pulley swap, I picked up another 7 or 8 rwhp and 10 ft*lbs when my alternator was bad and I was just on battery power.
In a Fiero V6 engine, the 25hp of frictional losses that show up on a dyno are mostly from turning the alternator and water pump. I'd love to run my race car on battery + solar power for the short time that I do race it.
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 12-20-2013).]
The GM HEI ingnition can be shaky past 4500rpm so those can improve/restore top end performance. I don't know if it's a "gain" but it keeps you at 100%, know what I mean?
I gotcha, thanks.. Ill give it a try if I figure out the install lol... Ill let everyone know the results!
Don't waste your money on the MSD ignition stuff. Just go with stock replacements during a tune up. The stock 2.8 falls flat around 4300 RPM anyway, so you shouldn't be revving the engine any higher than that before shifting. If you do, you're just wasting time, and losing power.
One of the reasons the "stock" engine falls flat is the ignition. La Fiera has his 2.8 putting down 172 rwhp @6000rpm with a high lift cam, ported heads and custom intake and headers... A "new" 2.8 with a manual transmission should dyno at 115 rwhp on a dynojet bone stock. My old black 88GT (now deceased) put down 112 rwhp with 100k miles with just an Accel coil for a mod. Technically heads "bolt-on". It's all about how far the OP wants to take it.
One of the reasons the "stock" engine falls flat is the ignition. La Fiera has his 2.8 putting down 172 rwhp @6000rpm with a high lift cam, ported heads and custom intake and headers... A "new" 2.8 with a manual transmission should dyno at 115 rwhp on a dynojet bone stock. My old black 88GT (now deceased) put down 112 rwhp with 100k miles with just an Accel coil for a mod. Technically heads "bolt-on". It's all about how far the OP wants to take it.
There are many reasons why the stock engine falls flat around 4000 RPM. The ignition is a minor one. Simply spending $200 on installing an MSD on a totally stock engine is going to do nothing.
The OP is asking about easy/cheap mods for a stock Fiero. Swapping a 3.4/3400 roller cam hybrid built engine with a custom intake and exhaust, isn't cheap or easy. And there are cheaper/easier swaps that will get you more power.
There is absolutely no good reason for the OP to spend the time/money to install an MSD 6AL box on his Fiero. It will likely cause more problems than it would solve, and it's not going to give any increase in power at the wheels.
If the OP doesn't have much money to spend on the car, the best thing that can be done is to save/spend that money on proper maintenance. He doesn't need to waste money on mods that do nothing for him, and will simply leave him broke and without a car, when something does fail.
Originally posted by dobey: There are many reasons why the stock engine falls flat around 4000 RPM. The ignition is a minor one. Simply spending $200 on installing an MSD on a totally stock engine is going to do nothing.
The OP is asking about easy/cheap mods for a stock Fiero. Swapping a 3.4/3400 roller cam hybrid built engine with a custom intake and exhaust, isn't cheap or easy. And there are cheaper/easier swaps that will get you more power.
There is absolutely no good reason for the OP to spend the time/money to install an MSD 6AL box on his Fiero. It will likely cause more problems than it would solve, and it's not going to give any increase in power at the wheels.
If the OP doesn't have much money to spend on the car, the best thing that can be done is to save/spend that money on proper maintenance. He doesn't need to waste money on mods that do nothing for him, and will simply leave him broke and without a car, when something does fail.
La Fiera's 2.8 is not a 3X00 block. I've used an ACCEL and MSD coil that were the same size as the stock unit but produced better spark at high rpm. I would only recommend the "big" MSD swap in boosted and high compression builds. At 26+ years old, the stock unit should be replaced.
Originally posted by lou_dias: La Fiera's 2.8 is not a 3X00 block. I've used an ACCEL and MSD coil that were the same size as the stock unit but produced better spark at high rpm. I would only recommend the "big" MSD swap in boosted and high compression builds. At 26+ years old, the stock unit should be replaced.
His 2.8 is also not a stock 2.8. Like you said, cam, and custom intake and exhaust. And a few other things as well. It is far from a stock engine.
Originally posted by dobey: His 2.8 is also not a stock 2.8. Like you said, cam, and custom intake and exhaust. And a few other things as well. It is far from a stock engine.
Yes but the cam is the only thing that is truly not "bolt on". He offers CNC ported iron heads for $400 which is cheap and they flowbenched at 185 cfm which is equivalent to stock Gen3 aluminum heads. I wouldn't have removed the intake vane but to each his own.
I currently have a stock 2.8 in my 87 gt with no Cats Looking to see if there are some mods or bolt ons for just a few hundred bucks to get a little more horsepower?? Any help or Ideas would be appreciated! Thanks everyone. (I am not going to swap the engine lol)
List: - Underdrive Pulleys - Ported Exhaust Manifolds - Intake Port-matching (plenum to runners to manifold to heads) - 1.6:1 Roller Tipped Rocker Arms - 2" exhaust - MSD or Accel higher output ignition coil w/ quality plug wires - Rodney Dickman's Cold-Air Intake System (http://rodneydickman.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=70) - K&N Air Filter + Synthetic Oil + 180 degree thermostat
Finally... removing your catalytic converter is hurting your low-end performance. Saying this strictly from a performance aspect and not about the environment, the catalytic converter provides a little bit of backpressure which is necessary to improve your off-the-line performance. Since the Fiero's torque really drops of above 5,300 rpms, you're not really benefitting as much as you otherwise would by eliminating the cat. Now, the factory cat is absolute garbage, but I would put a larger one back... like the Ocelot one from the Fiero Store or a Magnaflow cat. I've said this many times before to many people, and most people don't listen and just keep it off anyway... but you would really really improve performance by keeping (a larger) one on.
In my opinion, the best exhaust for a stock sized V6 Fiero where the intake size is unchanged, is a fully mandrel-bent 2" exhaust in stainless, with a Magnaflow cat, and a Cherry-bomb muffler... coupled with ceramic coated shorty headers and a ceramic coated Y-pipe. Excellent exhaust scavenging, good sound, no popping, and excellent off-the-line power, and excellent mid-range to upper rpm power too.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: List: - Underdrive Pulleys - Ported Exhaust Manifolds - Intake Port-matching (plenum to runners to manifold to heads) - 1.6:1 Roller Tipped Rocker Arms - 2" exhaust - MSD or Accel higher output ignition coil w/ quality plug wires - Rodney Dickman's Cold-Air Intake System (http://rodneydickman.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=70) - K&N Air Filter + Synthetic Oil + 180 degree thermostat
Finally... removing your catalytic converter is hurting your low-end performance. Saying this strictly from a performance aspect and not about the environment, the catalytic converter provides a little bit of backpressure which is necessary to improve your off-the-line performance. Since the Fiero's torque really drops of above 5,300 rpms, you're not really benefitting as much as you otherwise would by eliminating the cat. Now, the factory cat is absolute garbage, but I would put a larger one back... like the Ocelot one from the Fiero Store or a Magnaflow cat. I've said this many times before to many people, and most people don't listen and just keep it off anyway... but you would really really improve performance by keeping (a larger) one on.
In my opinion, the best exhaust for a stock sized V6 Fiero where the intake size is unchanged, is a fully mandrel-bent 2" exhaust in stainless, with a Magnaflow cat, and a Cherry-bomb muffler... coupled with ceramic coated shorty headers and a ceramic coated Y-pipe. Excellent exhaust scavenging, good sound, no popping, and excellent off-the-line power, and excellent mid-range to upper rpm power too.
I respectfully disagree on your comments about the exhaust. I believe the stock exhaust manifolds and port openings are ~ 7/8". My 3.4 has the ports at 1 3/16 and the primaries after the flange are 1 3/8" feeding a full 2.5" exhaust. With the fiero intake I made 249 ft*lbs of torque at 3600 rpm. I switched to a Trueleo INTAKE set up and my torque went down to 203 ft*lbs at 4000rpm. Moral of the story is that the Fiero exhaust valve is 1.42" which is slightly more that 1 3/8" when you subtract the area of the valve stem it gets closer to the area of a 1 3/8" opening... Fieros are extremely exhaust restricted and one of the things the GEN3+ heads do is give you MUCH larger exhaust ports (despite the same 1.42" exhaust valve" and people think all the power came from the bigger intakes in those engines...or I should say, the focus has always been the intakes... I have shown even with a restrictive intake and large exhaust, you can make lots of torque. This also explains why the simple way to gain 10-15 hp is to remove the extra casting from the stock manifolds and the D-crip area from the cross-over - the exhaust is too restrictive even for a 2.8.
A 2.8 has been shown to benefit from a 2 1/4" exhaust system. Stock Fiero exhaust is 1 7/8"... After 33-36" of exhaust length from the port the benefits of back pressure decrease to the point of nothing so in the end, bigger is better.
Oh and I don't use a catalytic converter.
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 12-21-2013).]
I respectfully disagree on your comments about the exhaust. I believe the stock exhaust manifolds and port openings are ~ 7/8". My 3.4 has the ports at 1 3/16 and the primaries after the flange are 1 3/8" feeding a full 2.5" exhaust. With the fiero intake I made 249 ft*lbs of torque at 3600 rpm. I switched to a Trueleo INTAKE set up and my torque went down to 203 ft*lbs at 4000rpm. Moral of the story is that the Fiero exhaust valve is 1.42" which is slightly more that 1 3/8" when you subtract the area of the valve stem it gets closer to the area of a 1 3/8" opening... Fieros are extremely exhaust restricted and one of the things the GEN3+ heads do is give you MUCH larger exhaust ports (despite the same 1.42" exhaust valve" and people think all the power came from the bigger intakes in those engines...or I should say, the focus has always been the intakes... I have shown even with a restrictive intake and large exhaust, you can make lots of torque. This also explains why the simple way to gain 10-15 hp is to remove the extra casting from the stock manifolds and the D-crip area from the cross-over - the exhaust is too restrictive even for a 2.8.
A 2.8 has been shown to benefit from a 2 1/4" exhaust system. Stock Fiero exhaust is 1 7/8"... After 33-36" of exhaust length from the port the benefits of back pressure decrease to the point of nothing so in the end, bigger is better.
Oh and I don't use a catalytic converter.
In my personal experience, I went with a stock exhaust (with a stock cat), to removing the cat completely... gained power, but lost low-end power, and then replaced it with a slightly larger cfm cat (larger internal design), and saw an improvement in low to midrange power. But that was all on 1-7/8ths exhaust.
My advice makes the assumption of a totally stock intake plenum. Are you saying that the stock Fiero would see an improvement from 2" to 2-1/4" with a stock plenum? I'm not disagreeing, but I had not heard this and I saw little improvement (if any) by going to a 2" exhaust. None of it was mandrel bent though... which could have hindered the performance.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: In my personal experience, I went with a stock exhaust (with a stock cat), to removing the cat completely... gained power, but lost low-end power, and then replaced it with a slightly larger cfm cat (larger internal design), and saw an improvement in low to midrange power. But that was all on 1-7/8ths exhaust.
My advice makes the assumption of a totally stock intake plenum. Are you saying that the stock Fiero would see an improvement from 2" to 2-1/4" with a stock plenum? I'm not disagreeing, but I had not heard this and I saw little improvement (if any) by going to a 2" exhaust. None of it was mandrel bent though... which could have hindered the performance.
You won't really see any improvement with unmodified stock manifolds/y-pipe. Crush-bent tubes also won't help, given the turbulence they induce as the gas passes through the bends.
