Alright, my arm's been twisted (didn't take much), and I'm looking to do a 3x00 swap where x is 4 or 5. Determined it's probably going to be a non-VVT and non-Drive-by-Wire 3500. I've gathered a bunch of my old parts from a 3400 swap I did in a '99 W-body back in the day. Problem: I no longer have that '99 W-Body. Was parted out after being totaled. I got the ECU, exhaust and underdrive pulley back. ECU's sitting on my desk right now.
My goal is a 3500+F23 swap into my '85 2m4. I'll be making as detailed thread on it as I can when the build begins sometime late in February. (Need to save up some cash, been jobless a couple of months, new job starts Monday, recovering savings, then saving up to get parts for the build.) But before I begin, I want to gather as much information as humanly possible.
I need to get the trans mounts/trans select adapter from Roger Thelin. (Been in touch with him prior to switching away from the Ecotec. Really cool, informative guy.)
I need to get the Fiero V6 mounts and axles.
I need pretty much everything to get the engine running from the donor. (Engine assembly, accessories, fuel rail, FPR, starter, emissions equipment because I'm in an emissions county here in NC, and an oil filter relocation kit.)
I need to get the gauges from the donor if I don't want to go about converting the 24k PPM to a 4k PPM speedo signal. My interior's shot anyway - and I'd like to refresh it a bit, so I don't mind going this route and doing the wiring.
Possibly shimming the clutch master cylinder so I don't overcompress in a panic situation and overextend the HTOB on the F23.
I need an '88 Fiero flywheel plus any clutch that would work for that.
I am going to need to custom-fab an exhaust.
FelPro gaskets are the first thing that're going on after a quick inspection of the engine.
What I'm unsure of:
If this PCM I've got will work. Service number 16236757, Hardware number 16200870.
I'm about 80% sure I'll have to upgrade my fuel pump, it being a 2m4's fuel pump, but I've been known to be wrong in the past. I'd like to avoid dropping my tank if I can.
Can I retain air conditioning and still move the alternator to avoid notching the decklid? Or are those two ideas mutually exclusive?
Existing cooling lines: How many/which ones can I keep? The threads around are mostly about going from a 2.8 to a 3x00, not so much a 2m4 to a 3x00. So - I'm wondering what differences exist, if any.
Also - for the same 2m4 issue listed above, I haven't seen any wiring diagrams to get the two harnesses to mesh. Granted, pinouts are all the same on the 3x00 ECU side, so I can start from there, but how much of it is the same on the Fiero harness between the 4 and 6?
VATS removal from the OBD-II ECU: Can it be done via a tune? I'm pretty sure the answer's yes, but I just wanna make 100% sure before I hit up a junkyard to source the engine. (If I have to get a BCM, I'll grab one when I'm there.)
Which ECU pins ultimately reach the OBD-II connector? I'd like to actually wire it up under the dash as if it were a stock OBD-II car.
Timeframe (Am praying to God this is a realistic one):
Parts gathering and conditioning: Late February, early March.
Fiero teardown: March.
Engine swap: March.
Brakes/Suspension/Interior: April
Testing/Tuning: Late April, Early May.
Just looking really for input on anything I'm not sure of listed above, comments, additions, or any kind of constructive input. I'm really open to criticism. My only hard/steadfast limits are that I don't want to cut into the cradle/chassis or have to weld anything structural. I'm alright with welding, I've done a couple hundred exhausts over the few years I worked at a garage to put myself through college. But I'm not what anyone would consider great at it by any stretch of the imagination. So any swaps requiring that are right-out. This is actually the reason I've changed from my original goal of an LSJ to a V6. Was originally thinking LQ1 because they sound pretty kick-ass and seemed relatively easy. But apparently 3x00's are just as easy. I've done a 3400 swap into a 3100-having W-body before, so I'm at the very least familiar with the engine enough to be comfortable with it. A turbo might come into play down the line, but probably not at least for a year or so.
[This message has been edited by Ravant (edited 12-07-2013).]
I know that Joseph Upson has a couple of threads with some real good information. A lot of what he covers is for the 3900, with relevant information for the 3400 & 3500.
That said, with this and the other information out there, the hard part could be deciphering/deciding what information to use. Sure would be great if we had an "editor" on our forum who could go through everything and summarize a "how-to-do" (a lot of work, I know).
The (3x00) is, in my opinion, the way to go for a practical and "easy" swap. My vision is to do a 3500 non-VVT w/F40 6 spd. I'm gathering parts and ideas as more of these swaps get publicized.
In my opinion, if your planning to send your PCM to get tuned to eliminate VATs, I would get the changes done so you can use the Fiero gauges as well. Makes thinks a lot simpler/faster. As far as wiring, I have made my own harnesses and bought harnesses. If I were to do it again, I would buy a harness and be done with it. Phonedawgz made mine, and I was very happy with it. I felt it was worth the money, as it made for a plug & play affair. In my experience with 3x00 swaps I haven't been able to find a bolt in solution for the doggone mount. All the setups I have tried or seen, need at least some welding. Otherwise, that is the only welding that is needed, other then the exhaust. The only other welding that may be needed for your setup might be switching the 4cyl mounts to v6 mounts, im not sure if they bolt in or not. Others can probably confirm this. I changed to the AC Delco "upgraded" fuel pump. I can't remember the part number, but it was cheaper then the Walboro or other high performance options. It seams to be able to handle my modified 3400 no problem. I did run my stock 2.8 fuel pump when my 3400 was stock and it held up fine. Hope this helps, good luck.
First of all, you will need to swap out the fuel pump. The 2M4 fuel pump is a low-pressure unit (i.e. under 15 psi), which won't work on a MPFI engine. Plus, the V6 fuel pump may not flow enough fuel to feed a healthy 3x00 (assuming you hop it up a bit). But I've been told the Corvette LT1 fuel pump is a drop-in replacement.
Second of all, there is only one cooling system mod necessary for the Fiero 4cyl to V6 swap. That involves chopping about 6 inches off the back end of the driver side underbody coolant pipe, to make room for the rubber hose that connects it to the coolant crossover pipe. If you intend to use a Fiero V6 coolant crossover pipe (or something similar), then you'll need to perform this mod. That said, you'll probably need to DIY the heater hoses.
Also, I've heard talk of putting a spacer on the HTOB, to keep it from over-extending. That might be worth looking into. Because it'll give you more clutch travel than a master cylinder shim.
[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 12-08-2013).]
If this PCM I've got will work. Service number 16236757, Hardware number 16200870.
I'm about 80% sure I'll have to upgrade my fuel pump, it being a 2m4's fuel pump, but I've been known to be wrong in the past. I'd like to avoid dropping my tank if I can.
Can I retain air conditioning and still move the alternator to avoid notching the decklid? Or are those two ideas mutually exclusive?
Existing cooling lines: How many/which ones can I keep? The threads around are mostly about going from a 2.8 to a 3x00, not so much a 2m4 to a 3x00. So - I'm wondering what differences exist, if any.
Also - for the same 2m4 issue listed above, I haven't seen any wiring diagrams to get the two harnesses to mesh. Granted, pinouts are all the same on the 3x00 ECU side, so I can start from there, but how much of it is the same on the Fiero harness between the 4 and 6?
VATS removal from the OBD-II ECU: Can it be done via a tune? I'm pretty sure the answer's yes, but I just wanna make 100% sure before I hit up a junkyard to source the engine. (If I have to get a BCM, I'll grab one when I'm there.)
Which ECU pins ultimately reach the OBD-II connector? I'd like to actually wire it up under the dash as if it were a stock OBD-II car.
If this PCM I've got will work. Service number 16236757, Hardware number 16200870. yes, you can use this ECU, but you WILL need to use the 3400 balancer and the 7x crank trigger from WOT tech or one you make yourself.
I'm about 80% sure I'll have to upgrade my fuel pump, it being a 2m4's fuel pump, but I've been known to be wrong in the past. I'd like to avoid dropping my tank if I can. yes, you will need a new fuel pump, and if you are using the 3500 rail, you will need a FPR (something like my setup in the take2 thread I think) because the 3500 rail is "returnless"
Can I retain air conditioning and still move the alternator to avoid notching the decklid? Or are those two ideas mutually exclusive? sorry, not sure on this one, I *think* you can low mount the alternator on the back side above the axles, but don't quote me on that.
Existing cooling lines: How many/which ones can I keep? The threads around are mostly about going from a 2.8 to a 3x00, not so much a 2m4 to a 3x00. So - I'm wondering what differences exist, if any. you will be 'scrapping' the coolant lines in the engine bay, the drivers side coolany pipe will connect to the thermo outlet, and the passanger side pipe will connect to the water pump, then you will have the coolant 'tree' and the bypass from near the thermo connecting to the heatercore lines. (insert over flow tank if your using one)
Also - for the same 2m4 issue listed above, I haven't seen any wiring diagrams to get the two harnesses to mesh. Granted, pinouts are all the same on the 3x00 ECU side, so I can start from there, but how much of it is the same on the Fiero harness between the 4 and 6? phonedawgs or someone can answer this better, but if you check the pinouts, I think the will be mostly the same as its no 'engine' functions but body control connections... you might need a new tach?
VATS removal from the OBD-II ECU: Can it be done via a tune? I'm pretty sure the answer's yes, but I just wanna make 100% sure before I hit up a junkyard to source the engine. (If I have to get a BCM, I'll grab one when I'm there.) yes it can, I had gmtuners.com tune my ecu (darth on the board)can, can also disable egr and evap if you don't want to use it
Which ECU pins ultimately reach the OBD-II connector? I'd like to actually wire it up under the dash as if it were a stock OBD-II car. the purple wire! uhm, I forget what pin, if you don't see it, I can look it up for ya.
OTHER notes. if your using the 3500 with the 3400 ecu like I did, you will need the 3400 ICM and coils. you can also get the tach output from the 3400 ICM. if you have any questions please feel free to PM me and ask! welcome to the 60degree madness!
no decklid notch has to be done if you swap the timing cover with the 87-88 V6 timing cover. once you do this, it also opens several other doors, like being able to swap the valve covers front to rear so you don't have to pour oil over the top of the engine to fill it. it also allows you to retain the upper dogbone mount, if you leave the alternator in the stock 3x00 location, you have to fabricate a new dogbone setup. something I still need to do with my swap... it should also allow you to use a stock replacement right side coolant hose. the downside to the timing cover swap, it requires multiple belts, the balancer and pulley are two separate parts (more stuff to source) and your current UDP and PCM won't work with it, as the obd2 PCM needs the crank trigger that is mounted behind the balancer.
Darth also mounted a 3100/4T60E swap with shorter engine and transmission mounts, and installed spacers underneath the frame where the cradle attaches so the install wouldn't require a decklid notch.
I've got a 85 SE with a 3500/F23 swap, almost done, but my car is about 600 miles away right now, but when I get it here I'll get back to work and probably have it on the road in about 2-3 weeks hopefully. build thread is in my sig.
as far as I can tell thus far, the best clutch for the F23 swap with a 3500 is going to be one built for the the 2.2 that the F23 came with. I still need to get measurements to validate this, but I'm pretty sure the friction face on the flywheel is the same distance from the bellhousing flange for both engines.
------------------ we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...
First of all, you will need to swap out the fuel pump. The 2M4 fuel pump is a low-pressure unit (i.e. under 15 psi), which won't work on a MPFI engine. Plus, the V6 fuel pump may not flow enough fuel to feed a healthy 3x00 (assuming you hop it up a bit). But I've been told the Corvette LT1 fuel pump is a drop-in replacement.
Second of all, there is only one cooling system mod necessary for the Fiero 4cyl to V6 swap. That involves chopping about 6 inches off the back end of the driver side underbody coolant pipe, to make room for the rubber hose that connects it to the coolant crossover pipe. If you intend to use a Fiero V6 coolant crossover pipe (or something similar), then you'll need to perform this mod. That said, you'll probably need to DIY the heater hoses.
Also, I've heard talk of putting a spacer on the HTOB, to keep it from over-extending. That might be worth looking into. Because it'll give you more clutch travel than a master cylinder shim.
My HTOB blew when I was bleeding it, when I get my new clutch, I'm going to take measurements to see if the new clutch I'm looking at will require a spacer. when I get a new HTOB, I'm going to get one for an F35 instead though, the design is a little bit different, bolts over the input shaft the same, but uses different hydraulic fittings. It'll probably fit my needs much better.
as far as a spacer behind the HTOB is concerned, the stock HTOB is also the input shaft seal. the best way I can see to make a spacer would be to machine down a blown HTOB to the mounting base, and then place the necessary spacer on top so you can maintain a seal.
------------------ we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...
So I take it that you are planning on running the 6757 computer with a modified 3400 program?
I have a bin file that I reworked for a five speed that should work fine. I based it on a 5 speed 3800 Fbody bin. it's untested still, but it should work fine. I did wire in a clutch anticipate switch though.
I need to get the trans mounts/trans select adapter from Roger Thelin. (Been in touch with him prior to switching away from the Ecotec. Really cool, informative guy.)
I need to get the Fiero V6 mounts and axles.
I need pretty much everything to get the engine running from the donor. (Engine assembly, accessories, fuel rail, FPR, starter, emissions equipment because I'm in an emissions county here in NC, and an oil filter relocation kit.)
I need to get the gauges from the donor if I don't want to go about converting the 24k PPM to a 4k PPM speedo signal. My interior's shot anyway - and I'd like to refresh it a bit, so I don't mind going this route and doing the wiring.
Possibly shimming the clutch master cylinder so I don't overcompress in a panic situation and overextend the HTOB on the F23.
I need an '88 Fiero flywheel plus any clutch that would work for that.
I am going to need to custom-fab an exhaust.
FelPro gaskets are the first thing that're going on after a quick inspection of the engine.
As for the F23 mounts, I do not believe that Roger Thelin's mounts will work, as the Ecotec bellhousing has different mount bosses. Fieroflyer on this board made the mounts I ended up using.
If you have a manual transmission in your Fiero already, you do not need V6 axles.
I don't know why you think you need an oil filter relocation kit, but instead of using the factory oil filter relocation bracket, you need to remove it and thread the oil filter directly to the block. The relocation bracket will cause the oil filter to hit the cradle. The threaded fitting that the adapter contains will unthread from the adapter and thread into the block.
I highly recommend shimming the master cylinder. When I went to bleed my HTOB, it overextended a few pushes after it was bled (no shim). Shimming the master cylinder solved the problem and contrary to what others are saying there is no discernible loss in pedal travel.
If you're considering using Fel-Pro problem solver intake gaskets, you may be interested in reading of some failures on 60degreev6. It seems like most are suggesting to use the upgraded GM gaskets these days (2004+ IIRC).
Thanks for all the input guys. Sorry I am slow to get back to you. Just started a new job on the 9th. (Note, if you don't feel like reading the whole post, the important bits are highlighted in yellow.)
So - after a bit of research: 1) The swap is on. My remaining concerns about DMV/Safety/Emissions here in NC have been assuaged by a local shop who explained things better to me in ~10 minutes than anyone at DMV could have in days. 2) I'm going to be adding more questions here as I start poking at the rest of the specifics for the swap. Yes, there's existing threads. I've linked most of the good ones. You guys have found some of the others. But they're all chronological build threads. As Bridgetown pointed out, that makes it difficult for someone to pick and choose what's a guideline and what's just information. I'm trying to take in as much information from as many sources as possible. My goal, by the end of this swap, is to not only have a chronological build thread right here on PFF, but to either make an interactive "howto" website to toss into my work portfolio storing multiple how-to's for different aspects of the build or to have enough information to do a number of step-by-step detailed writeups to hopefully make the newer 60*V6's a common swap now that the prices of engines are plummeting.
Bridgetown: I thought about getting things redone to get the Fiero gauges working, but I'm not a fan of the layout or the look of them. I sort of want the gauges from a G6GT with the G6 logo deleted. I'm going to probably do my own harness because I've got some wiring issues on the Fiero harness as-is, and I'm likely going to be going full-custom anyway. And likely going to be in an insane asylum before 2014's over. But that's besides the point. I don't mind doing some welding on an exhaust or dogbone. I just don't want to weld the crossmember of a subframe. If the dogbone cracks a weld, the engine won't fall out of the car. It won't be a good thing, but it won't be the end of the world. If the subframe welds pop, there'll be a lot of money down the drain. So, that's fine. Worst-case, I got a guy about a half hour from me who's been welding longer than I've been alive, so I could always defer to his experience for a smaller job like a dogbone. I'm pretty sure the V6 mounts will work. If not, I'll swap the cradle to an '88 and do an '88 rear swap at the same time as the engine swap. Because I've got the Duke, I'm going to be dropping the tank and replacing the pump. Which pump exactly is still up for debate as I build a parts-list (probably a Corvette LT1's fuel pump, see below), but it will be some work I have to do. Thanks for your input. It does help! Any input is always awesome.
Blacktree: As far as the fuel pump, I figured as much. The LT1 pump is now on my radar for the parts-list. Thank you for that input. As far as the heat/cooling changes, thank you for the input on that as well. I have to replace my radiator anyway, and because the car's been sitting for over a year, hoses are probably shot as well, so the majority are getting replaced anyway as a matter of standard maintenance while the car's laid up getting swapped. The HTOB spacer's something I'm looking into, as well as the shim method. I'm not sure what direction I'm going for it yet, and will likely not have a clue until I actually do it. So, it'll be an adventure!
phonedawgz: If I can use the 6757 computer and still use a manual transmission, I intend to. I'd like to keep this all OBDII if at all possible. I learned everything I know about tuning on an OBDII W-Body. And that was with extensive guidance from my late grandfather. I'm not confident enough to go about learning OBDI on my own when I'm going to be on a budget constraint and a slight time constraint as well. I'd like to stick with what I know and am comfy with.
hookdonspeed: Thank you for your detailed breakout. Do you have any suggestions on which FPR to go with? Preferably just cheap and reliable. Doesn't have to be extensively tune-able as I'm probably not going forced induction for a couple of years yet. As far as the alternator placement, I was CAD-ing up an aluminum bracket that might work for it last night until about 3 AM today (which is bad, because I had work at 8!). There's a local machine shop who just got a shiny new CNC and are reasonably priced. I don't know if that will pan out or not yet. I may just suck it up and notch the lid and weld in some reinforcement elsewhere to keep the lid from getting floppy. Not sure if it will, but I'm paranoid. As far as EGR and EVAP, the parts have to be on the car to pass safety because I'm in one of 48 emissions counties in NC. They don't have to be functional, but if they improve fuel economy, why not keep 'em around and functioning? As far as the ECU pin, I was sort of looking for a number so I could probe at it with some of my electronics tools to see if I can't get the ECU to run without the car hooked up and make at least a self-test output. The car it was originally in was involved in a major accident and was totaled when a drunk crossed the median of the Southern State Parkway on Long Island and hit me. I want to see if the ECU even works, still. And lastly, thanks for the other notes. Well-appreciated, and have added the ICM and coils to my parts list, assuming I use this 3400 PCM if it's functional.
ericjon262: Couldn't do the timing cover swap, only because I really want to retain OBDII functionality. Thanks for the input on the clutch, though. I'll start poking my nose around that option to see if it'll work. This, like the fuel pump, is one of those parts that I'm probably not going to have a concrete idea on until I get to the point and click the "Submit" button on a purchase. And 'cause I'm most likely doing an '88 cradle swap, Roger Thelin's mounts will work for the application. The question is, does the old-style V6 mounting bracket work with the newer cradle? (This question's open to anyone who knows.)
bcampbell: The trans is currently a 3-speed auto. I'm doing an auto-to-manual swap, and was probably going to have to replace the axles. That's why I figured I'd ask, so I could just reaffirm/get a more solid thought on it. The oil filter relocation thing was because I saw it done in one of the myriad of build threads and made an assumption. If it need not be done, it need not be done. However, if it makes maintenance easier after the initial install, then I'm still doing it, just to make maintenance easier. Despite the fun of this car, it will be my daily. As far as shimming the master cylinder, what's the benefit of shimming it there instead of spacing the HTOB? (This question's open to anyone who knows.) I was considering the FelPro gaskets, but only because they were the ones that helped my 3400 in the Monte retain ~5 PSI of boost with no unreasonable failures. (When my wastegate failed closed because I went cheap on it, the gaskets were the first to let go, but that was for the best because it meant I didn't break much else.) If there's a better option than even FelPro, I am absolutely all ears and willing to jump all over it like a fat kid to cupcakes. Thanks for the input!
Another question that I'll probably post over to 60*V6 as well: Anybody know if the 6757 PCM allows for two precat O2 sensors instead of one? Essentially, I want to put a resonator where the cat would normally go so I can do both a resonator and a muffler, but I want to retain a functioning catalyst system. So I was thinking about putting a smaller (but unfortunately more expensive) pair of metal substrate cats in the exhaust flow, one on the end of each manifold before the crossover pipe. But thinking about that, the pre-cat O2 reading and subsequent calculated post-cat O2 reading would be off if I tried to use a single O2 sensor and throw a CEL. I'd do one before each metal-substrate cat and the post-cat sensor would be at the outlet of the crossover/merge. If I could poke at the ECU and tell it to take this into consideration, that would be awesome. If not, I'll probably build a small combination circuit that'll take the sum of the two sensors and pass the adjusted single O2 reading on to the PCM.
tl;dr: Thanks everyone for your input. You all rock.
Edit: eye ca'nt grammer gud 2day. Fixed.
[This message has been edited by Ravant (edited 12-11-2013).]
no decklid notch has to be done if you swap the timing cover with the 87-88 V6 timing cover.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can use the 87-88 V6 timing cover if you intend on going OBD2 since the OBD2 computers require a 24x crank trigger. The 24x crank trigger does not fit inside the RWD-style pulley that is used with the 87-88 timing cover.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can use the 87-88 V6 timing cover if you intend on going OBD2 since the OBD2 computers require a 24x crank trigger. The 24x crank trigger does not fit inside the RWD-style pulley that is used with the 87-88 timing cover.
He put in his post that it'd only work with OBDI and is also the reason I'm not touching it. Though, it /is/ an option for people who don't mind going OBDI for their swaps.
I'm not 100% sure ont he front mount, but I think I read somewhere that the do interchange.
I've edited a 3400 bin for five speed operation, and I would recommend wiring in a clutch anticipate switch to your clutch pedal so the PCM can see "neutral" I'll see if I can find the diagram showing the switch, it maybe in one of the threads linked below...
the PCM is capable of two o2 sensors pre cat, although I am not sure if dual bank fuel control would be enabled, or just logging of both o2's
He put in his post that it'd only work with OBDI and is also the reason I'm not touching it. Though, it /is/ an option for people who don't mind going OBDI for their swaps.
No worries. It's still good information to compile. Once I start digging into my swap and begin to chronicle it, I'm also going to be poking the lot of you for more information and permission to use some of your images and what-not on a sort of "If you don't feel like doing it the way I did, you can do it these ways too" section of my howto.
Originally posted by Ravant: Do you have any suggestions on which FPR to go with? Preferably just cheap and reliable.
bcampbell: The trans is currently a 3-speed auto. I'm doing an auto-to-manual swap, and was probably going to have to replace the axles. That's why I figured I'd ask, so I could just reaffirm/get a more solid thought on it. The oil filter relocation thing was because I saw it done in one of the myriad of build threads and made an assumption. If it need not be done, it need not be done. However, if it makes maintenance easier after the initial install, then I'm still doing it, just to make maintenance easier. Despite the fun of this car, it will be my daily. As far as shimming the master cylinder, what's the benefit of shimming it there instead of spacing the HTOB? (This question's open to anyone who knows.) I was considering the FelPro gaskets, but only because they were the ones that helped my 3400 in the Monte retain ~5 PSI of boost with no unreasonable failures. (When my wastegate failed closed because I went cheap on it, the gaskets were the first to let go, but that was for the best because it meant I didn't break much else.) If there's a better option than even FelPro, I am absolutely all ears and willing to jump all over it like a fat kid to cupcakes. Thanks for the input!
Another question that I'll probably post over to 60*V6 as well: Anybody know if the 6757 PCM allows for two precat O2 sensors instead of one? Essentially, I want to put a resonator where the cat would normally go so I can do both a resonator and a muffler, but I want to retain a functioning catalyst system. So I was thinking about putting a smaller (but unfortunately more expensive) pair of metal substrate cats in the exhaust flow, one on the end of each manifold before the crossover pipe. But thinking about that, the pre-cat O2 reading and subsequent calculated post-cat O2 reading would be off if I tried to use a single O2 sensor and throw a CEL. I'd do one before each metal-substrate cat and the post-cat sensor would be at the outlet of the crossover/merge. If I could poke at the ECU and tell it to take this into consideration, that would be awesome. If not, I'll probably build a small combination circuit that'll take the sum of the two sensors and pass the adjusted single O2 reading on to the PCM.
tl;dr: Thanks everyone for your input. You all rock.
Edit: eye ca'nt grammer gud 2day. Fixed.
BTW my build thread is at http://westcoastfieros.com/...TID=2825&PN=1&TPN=1. It's probably the fastest 3500 swap completed to date (around 5 weeks including ordering parts and exhaust). I HIGHLY recommend upgrading your drivetrain mounts for the swap. I've now broken 2 transmission mounts and 2 dog-bone mounts. One of the trans mounts I broke was poly already.
For a cheap and reliable FPR solution just get a 3400 fuel rail and injectors. Alternatively another method I've used is a 01ish Vette fuel filter/regulator. Keep in mind though that if you stick with the 3500 fuel rail you will be a bit more limited with injector selection in the future and you will need to mess with the injector lag time settings in the PCM in order to get a smooth idle.
Oil filter relocation bracket will simply not fit since the filter would hit the cradle. Alternatively you could use an aftermarket kit to put the filter wherever you wanted and add an oil cooler as well, but that's completely unneccesary. Since the oil filter is on the front side of the block anyway, oil changes will not be the easiest in the world but no harder than with a 2.8 (putting the filter directly on the block puts the filter in the same location as a stock 2.8).
When it comes to shimming the master, my theory on this is that the Fiero master has a larger bore than the Sunfire/Cavalier master, so reducing throw brings the system a little closer to stock Sunfire/Cavalier specs. The distance from clutch/flywheel location - HTOB is exactly the same 2.2-V6; so it's not like a HTOB shim is remotely required to disengage the clutch properly. In fact, the 2.2L engine uses the exact same flywheel and starter as a V6, and the only difference with the clutch setup is that it has a smaller diameter when stock. Many people using an F23 just use a 2.2L clutch setup to be sure that the pressure plate will clear the F23's smaller bellhousing.
Intake manifold gaskets... just use GM gaskets. They revised the design around 2004 IIRC, you can do more gasket-matching with them, and people don't seem to be having any issues with them. A couple of people on 60degreeV6 have shown instances where with the Fel-Pro "Permadry" gaskets some of the intake port gasket material was separating from the metal causing vacuum leaks and such.
[This message has been edited by bcampbell (edited 12-15-2013).]
the PCM is capable of two o2 sensors pre cat, although I am not sure if dual bank fuel control would be enabled, or just logging of both o2's
little update on this... looks like tiny tuner went through an update or something... Diagnostics>enable bank 2 fuel trims>change parameter to 1. you'll also have to turn the fault codes on for the other o2 sensor, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.
Determining if I'm getting the Fiero shipped down here or if it's drive-able in its current state as early as Wednesday of next week. If it's drive-able, it'll be in the garage to begin teardown on the 16th of March. If shipping, may be sooner. Not sure yet, but will find out.
The ECU I've got /should/ work for this application. I've also got some leads on sources for most of the parts I'll need. Will be posting a build thread once everything gets underway. Possibly live-streaming some of the work for the hell of it. Not like anyone'd actually want to watch me split my knuckles open and cuss often.
