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5 speed shifter help! by 4thfiero
Started on: 09-11-2013 10:54 AM
Replies: 48 (1259 views)
Last post by: fierofool on 09-19-2013 09:26 AM
4thfiero
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Report this Post09-11-2013 10:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey guys, so i got my car back from the second tranny shop...my 5 speed shifter select movement (side to side) doesnt want to move back and forth smooth. And it wont go back to the neutral position 100%

2.8 v6 with a 91 sunbird 5 speed getrag//rodney dickman cables//rodney dickman shifter conversion kit on the tranny side

New 5 speed shifter from Fiero store

The mechanic took my shift mechanism apart and cleaned up freed up the shifter and pins, i got a new selector cable from dickman//cables are routed correctly//. It got it working 90% but im STILL having trouble moving into the 1st and 2nd gear block smoothly to shift into 1st. And if you move the shifter into the 1st/2nd gear block and let it go to self adjust itself back to neutral? it only goes about 50% of the way. It just feels like there is resistance on the side to side action still...

Im taking the car back one more time and the mechanic said he will try and adjust the shifter conversion kit from diskman on the tranny side?? That maybe something is out of adjustment there and hopfully it will free up the side to side action...

does ANYONE have ANY OTHER suggestions of what this might be? Im going crazy wanting my car to shift like she used too but...she wont!

Verified the cables are okay, shift mechanism was all cleaned up and sanded, anti seez was added, shifter moves just fine not hooked up to anything on a bench, tranny side shifts fine when cables are disconnected. Everything SEEMS to be in working order...But the Shifter still "sticks"

PLS HELP!! THANKS!!
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Old Lar
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Report this Post09-11-2013 11:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Old LarSend a Private Message to Old LarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Rodney Dickman's select cable fixed my select issues.
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Patrick
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Report this Post09-11-2013 12:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

By my count, this is the 5th thread you've started dealing with your shifter issues.

You might have better success getting this issue resolved if you stuck to one comprehensive thread.
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Report this Post09-11-2013 12:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Best I can do right now with the current inet device im on...


 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:


By my count, this is the 5th thread you've started dealing with your shifter issues.

You might have better success getting this issue resolved if you stuck to one comprehensive thread.


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Report this Post09-11-2013 01:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 4thfiero:

Best I can do right now with the current inet device im on...




Really?
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Report this Post09-11-2013 01:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DaytonTDClick Here to Email DaytonTDSend a Private Message to DaytonTDEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Did you check that the cables are not binding when they are hooked up? They might be too kinked when you hook them up to the tranny
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Report this Post09-11-2013 01:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
sounds like a clutch slave issue .how does it move with the engine off?
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Report this Post09-11-2013 01:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes really!

 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:


Really?


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Report this Post09-11-2013 01:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

4thfiero

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Yes the routing and cables were checked, lines shouldnt be kinked. I wish that was the issue, haha


 
quote
Originally posted by DaytonTD:

Did you check that the cables are not binding when they are hooked up? They might be too kinked when you hook them up to the tranny


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Report this Post09-11-2013 01:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

4thfiero

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It moves the same and I have the same issue whether the engine is on or off...slave cylinder and clutch master are both brand new, slave was from dickman. Good question, this is why im totally lost as to what it could, be...

 
quote
Originally posted by wftb:

sounds like a clutch slave issue .how does it move with the engine off?


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Report this Post09-11-2013 01:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
put it in first gear , push the clutch to the floor and hit the starter just enough to spin the engine a few revs .if the car moves foreword , your clutch is hanging up and you will have shifting problems .also with the car in neutral and the engine running, push the clutch to the floor and put the car in first gear .if there is resistance to going in to first , again you have a clutch that is not disengaging completely .it does not matter if all your parts are new or not .fiero hydraulics are really hard to bleed properly .and if you have the original clutch line still , there may be a leak you have not found yet .thats all i can think of .
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Report this Post09-11-2013 01:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey wow, now we are getting somewhere! The clutch line is new and i have checked for leaks there, i havnt found any yet, i will do these tests and get back to you! I have a new thrust bearing and the clutch was replaced a few years ago. But im not sure if the line was bleed properly. What is the proper way to do it pls??


 
quote
Originally posted by wftb:

put it in first gear , push the clutch to the floor and hit the starter just enough to spin the engine a few revs .if the car moves foreword , your clutch is hanging up and you will have shifting problems .also with the car in neutral and the engine running, push the clutch to the floor and put the car in first gear .if there is resistance to going in to first , again you have a clutch that is not disengaging completely .it does not matter if all your parts are new or not .fiero hydraulics are really hard to bleed properly .and if you have the original clutch line still , there may be a leak you have not found yet .thats all i can think of .


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Report this Post09-11-2013 03:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Okay im at home now, just tried that trick! My car did NOT move forward trying both what you said. Also my tranny guy just made a small adjustment on dickmans shift conversion kit. I can now put the car into first without any "binding" it doesnt get stuck. Still feels VERY different from what im used to.

Question I have is. For those who have converted a 4 speed to a 5 speed getrag, did you notice a big difference in shifting and selecting? When it comes to travel and resistance in the lines? And is there supposed to be a little play in the shift mechanism when the shifter is in neutral? Thanks again guys!
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Report this Post09-11-2013 03:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ytzmanClick Here to Email ytzmanSend a Private Message to ytzmanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a similar set up and they can be a bit of a bear to set up properly.
If your having the issue without the engine running and no clutch then it has nothing to do with the clutch system.
You may want to Check the shift cable adjustment. If it is too far either direction, it could be causing the select to hang up in the detents.
Where in Canada are you? Anywhere close to the west side of T.O.?
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Report this Post09-11-2013 03:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thats interesting! You mean the shift adjustment on the tranny side?

I live in Winnipeg, mb
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Report this Post09-12-2013 11:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey guys, i was told by someone 2 things i wanna confirm...

1) if you use a 4 speed shift ARM (where the shift knob attaches too) on a 5 speed, that could cause issues?

2) apparently a 5 speed shifter requires a shim kit?? to adjust it correctly.


Can anyone verify???
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Report this Post09-13-2013 02:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Can anyone confirm if the 5 speed shift mechanism needs to be shimmed with a kit to make it shift correctly???
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Report this Post09-13-2013 04:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
never heard of it....but I don't hear of everything.
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Report this Post09-13-2013 05:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
...Im so fed up with this thing...i looked on the haynes manuel, apperantly the shifter requires shims to adjust it correctly, and it gives the shim specs..


 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

never heard of it....but I don't hear of everything.


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Report this Post09-13-2013 09:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

never heard of it....but I don't hear of everything.


/\ Same here.

Try this: Place the shifter into 1st gear. Insert a pin or drill bit into the hole at the base of the shift handle to hold it in place. Go to the transmission end and loosen the shift cable. The transmission lever is slotted. Be sure that lever is solidly in the 1st gear position. Tighten the nut on the ball stud on the end of the cable then remove the pin from the shifter. This should allow smooth side to side movement if nothing else is wrong.
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Report this Post09-13-2013 10:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 4thfiero:
Can anyone confirm if the 5 speed shift mechanism needs to be shimmed with a kit to make it shift correctly???


I converted my 4 speed to an Isuzu 5 speed, and have converted two other cars from automatics to five speeds. Although I used stock Fiero parts (not Rodney Dickman's parts) I can't even begin to understand what shims would be used for, nor where they would go. I don't have any different "feel" in the shifter either... it's neither stiffer, nor looser. There is however a little play in the shifter when in neutral, like every other car I've ever driven.

I hope you're using a shifter mechanism specifically from a five speed car, right? The four speed shifter is completely different and although it may be made to work with the 5 speed, it isn't plug and play.
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Report this Post09-14-2013 09:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Post a picture of your shifter assembly in the console area.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Report this Post09-16-2013 12:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i will post a pic, gotta do it tomorrow, how do u post a pic on here?

thanx everyone...this issue is sooo annoying...i cant believe this

also ill try that 1st gear trick!
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Report this Post09-16-2013 12:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 4thfiero:

how do u post a pic on here?


Use PIP.
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Report this Post09-16-2013 09:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for masospaghettiClick Here to Email masospaghettiSend a Private Message to masospaghettiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I used shims in Rodney's rebuilt kits to remove any play from the movement areas in the shifter. I doubt that lack of shims would cause problems like you describe. It would, if anything, cause a bit of looseness in the shifter mechanism.
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Report this Post09-16-2013 12:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Rodney has the shim kit I need? Thats cool, i think i know what you mean though, i do have some play in my shifter i would like to get rid of...Does anyone have a spare 5 speed shift arm they are willing to let me have/sell me?? (The arm that has the shift knob on it) i dont need the knob, just the arm.

Im at work right now, i will take a pic of the shifter mech. and post it after. Thanks so much for your help guys! I couldn't do this without all of you

 
quote
Originally posted by masospaghetti:

I used shims in Rodney's rebuilt kits to remove any play from the movement areas in the shifter. I doubt that lack of shims would cause problems like you describe. It would, if anything, cause a bit of looseness in the shifter mechanism.


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Report this Post09-16-2013 04:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Heading home right now, hopefully can take a pic quick. I looked up dickmans shifter rebuild kit you mentioned. I noticed the diff between getrag and izuzu, im gonna check bcc fiero store gives u whatever....will an izuzu shifter on a getrag tranny cause my issues???
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Report this Post09-16-2013 05:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think the major difference in the Isuzu and Getrag shifter is the little spring inside the lower part. On the Getrag, the spring that brings the shifter back to the 3-4 position in the neutral gate is in the trans. The Isuzu has the spring in the shifter.

Do some searching in the Tech section. There was a recent thread with pictures of the different shifters.

Edit: Found it in one of your other threads about shifters. Look at Gall's link in this thread of yours. //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/129801.html

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 09-16-2013).]

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Report this Post09-16-2013 07:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Okay i got home and took a look at my shifter, according to dickman's site, i believe that i have a true getrag shifter....posting pics in the next 5 min
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Report this Post09-16-2013 07:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here are my shifter pics...











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Report this Post09-16-2013 08:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
[EDIT - Please ignore this first line.] Who routed your cables that way, and why? They're not supposed to come up out of there. That's probably causing the cable(s) to bind.

[EDIT 2] Well, maybe it shouldn't be ignored.

The last image doesn't look right either? Something seems weird around the "ball". Maybe it's just the grease that I'm seeing.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 09-16-2013).]

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Report this Post09-16-2013 09:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
two professional tranny mechanics routed the cables...how are they not supposed to come out like that? what does a normal set up look like?

And yeah the tranny guy grinded a little by the ball your seeing to free up the shifter...its not grease.
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Report this Post09-16-2013 10:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 4thfiero:

two professional tranny mechanics routed the cables...how are they not supposed to come out like that? what does a normal set up look like?


Sorry, I had a brain cramp. Looking at the image I thought the cables were supposed to continue along underneath the console "skeleton". Wrong. [EDIT - Maybe not!]

 
quote
Originally posted by 4thfiero:

And yeah the tranny guy grinded a little by the ball your seeing to free up the shifter...its not grease.


Oh, well I don't know if that was a good idea.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 09-16-2013).]

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Report this Post09-16-2013 11:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Patrick, that was my first impression, too. I think you were correct the first time. The only thing on top of the skeleton is the wiring harnesses. The cables should be underneath.
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Report this Post09-16-2013 11:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4thfieroClick Here to Email 4thfieroSend a Private Message to 4thfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Would someone be willing to check there Fiero and confirm if the cables should be running under or over the skeleton?? And even if its wrong, would that really cause the issue im experiencing?? Really appreciate the help guys!
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Report this Post09-16-2013 11:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofool:

Patrick, that was my first impression, too. I think you were correct the first time. The only thing on top of the skeleton is the wiring harnesses. The cables should be underneath.


Well, that's what I thought 'cause it didn't look quite right... but I wasn't 100% sure. It's not like we have our consoles apart all the time and remember exactly what it looks like under there.

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Report this Post09-16-2013 11:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, I hate to say it, Patrick, but we finally agreed on something.
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Report this Post09-17-2013 12:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 4thfiero:

Would someone be willing to check there Fiero and confirm if the cables should be running under or over the skeleton??


If nobody else chimes in who knows absolutely for sure, tomorrow in the daylight I'll look under the console of my parts car.
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Report this Post09-17-2013 12:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 4thfiero:

Would someone be willing to check there Fiero and confirm if the cables should be running under or over the skeleton?? And even if its wrong, would that really cause the issue im experiencing?? Really appreciate the help guys!


The cables are made to a very specific length. Running them up and over the top of the skeleton not only puts some unnecessary bends in them, but actually shortens the cable so to speak. Yes, it could cause the problems you're experiencing. Professional transmission mechanics? I'd make them do the job again. FOR FREE! Call it OJT.
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Report this Post09-17-2013 12:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofool:

Well, I hate to say it, Patrick, but we finally agreed on something.


Oh come on, you're not that bad. I've had you rated positive since This thread.
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