I have a pair of tapered round effects from Fiero Fiberglass (http://www.fierofiberglass.com/Product%20Pages/GroundEffects.html), I know that a few on the forum already have these installed.

Does anybody have any idea's or suggestions on how to mount the top side to the door panel?

I plan to use plactic rivets like the factory one's to mount the lower side to the door panel, in the same fashion as the stock one.

Also, this spring my 87' GT's going in for paint however prior to going in I'm fitting all the fiberglass body components (scoops, fascia, tapered ground effects). Would it make better sense to the bodyshop if I sent the car in with the tapered ground effects attached or detached?

[This message has been edited by Squeaky (edited 02-14-2013).]

Anyone?

Bump...

Vette panel adhesive for SMC worked for me. I also used a 36 grit sanding disc and roughed up the contact area as well as drilling a hole every couple inches.

Found a couple pics

[This message has been edited by Mike Gonzalez (edited 02-16-2013).]

Thanks for the pics Mike, looks good! I have some questions if you don't mind.

Did you use the Vette SMC panel adhesive on the bottom side of the ground effects as well or just to blend in the seam between the top side and the door? Also the holes you drilled every couple inches, what were they for exactly?

Thanks again!

I used the panel adhesive on both top and bottom, but also used rivets on the bottom. I put the panel advesive on the back and used it like a glue and what squeezed out was smoothed out to blend the panel. The holes were just to give the adhesive something to grab on to and get some mechanical adhesion.

Awesome, now I'm in the right direction. Thanks once again!

I wouldn't trust SMC adhesive to bond to the RRIM (door) panel. You really need something specifically made for RRIM. Better yet, 'glass some studs to the back of the ground F/X & bolt it on, & you won't have any problems with cracking out in the future.
HTH,
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts

The only "down side" of painting them with them already installed is: The Paint will try to fill the cracks where they "join". it will Flow in, especially the clear.

Just checked out some local bodyshop supply stores and they only offer Fusor's line of bonding adhesisve's which require a gun as they're a 2-part mix. Does 3M or others offer a an adhesive that doesn't require me to go out a buy a gun?

Thanks for the suggestion Paul! Going about it that way will eliminate any possibility of warping. I can also utilize the holes already there from the old ground f/x minus the one or two holes closest to the front as I think the taper barely cover's them.

Based on what Lou6t4gto had to say I'll likely blend them into the door and fill that upper edge between the door and the top of the ground f/x, I plan to use regular old pink bondo body filler.

Because the door is openeing and closing (and hopefully not slammed) frequently would it better to blend it using something with a bit more integrity like bondo's short strand filler?

The Vette panel adhesive has been in place for over a year now in our drastically changing climate without problems and its driven daily. Its what FieroFiberglass told me they use, I have not been dissapointed so far.

quote Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez: The Vette panel adhesive has been in place for over a year now in our drastically changing climate without problems and its driven daily. Its what FieroFiberglass told me they use, I have not been dissapointed so far.

Glad it's working for you. In my 45 years of doing custom work, I've found it's not a good idea to bond non-similar products together except for very small parts...
BTW, did you notice your front spoiler fell off?

Do not use bondo on the RRIM. If you're adamant about bonding on the ground F/X, I'd use a product for RRIM both as adhesive & as a filler. Be SURE to grind everything with a 24 grit disc, very slowly on the RRIM so as not to melt it closing the pores & making it hard for anything to stick.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: did you notice your front spoiler fell off? Custom Fiberglass Parts

Hadnt been replaced yet in that pic

Perhaps a stupid question but what exactly is RRIM? I stopped at a bodyshop supply store late yesterday, they looked at me like I had a third head when I asked for RRIM adhesive. Is there a specific product that you use Paul?

well then I would change body shops lol. 50+% of fiero body parts like doors fenders I think and rear quarters are rrim... after researching this seems to be a pretty popular material and to answer your question yes and no... Yes you need special fillers and such for RRIM and no the products are not usually specific to RRIM you just have to read labels carefully. hope this helps definitely go for the gold with evercoat products not worth cutting corners. and for my .02 I think the only reason the panel didn't separate in above pics is the holes drilled for mech adhesion

quote Originally posted by Squeaky: Perhaps a stupid question but what exactly is RRIM? I stopped at a bodyshop supply store late yesterday, they looked at me like I had a third head when I asked for RRIM adhesive. Is there a specific product that you use Paul?

Reinforced Reaction Injection Molded (plastic). A good autobody supply should be familiar with it...
http://gafieroclub.org/bbs/index.php?topic=469.0
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts

Sounds like I oughta change bodyshop suppliers haha.

While working on the car some more last night I had an idea for mounting the top side of the ground f/x rather than glassing in studs. I have both door's off my car and noticed the plastic block that the panel gets sandwiched to when you tighten the 7mm screw and it got me thinking.

Right now both tapered ground f/x are rivetted on the bottom to the door. Looking at the door skin from the inside I can see the inside of the tapered ground f/x through the holes that the stock straight ground f/x used to utilize for mounting.

I've since marked the inside of the tapered ground effects through the holes described above with a sharpie. What I plan on doing next is using some abs plastic blocks (cut to size of course) that I had sitting around and adhering them to inside of the tapered ground f/x on the sharpie marks so that a block will sit underneath each hole. I'll then simply fasten the top of the ground f/x through the inside of the door panel by tightening some screws into the abs blocks that will be attached to the inside of the tapered ground f/x.

From there I'll use some rrim adhesive/filler to blend the seam at the top making it one with the door.

It will save me from glassing in ten seperate studs and I figure if the same basic concept is being used elsewhere on the door already I may as well stick with the status quo.

Although Mike's looks good and have held up well I don't want to take any chances. Here where I live there's an 80 degree temperature differential between seasons, in the summer its gotten as hot as 40*C and in the winter its gotten as cold as -40*C. I figure with the method I described above along with the advice you all have given (thanks a million btw) I'll be in good shape.

So here's an update:

I tried going in the direction I described above however there just simply isn't enough room to play around with screws. Where the existing holes line up on the tapered groundf/x there's maybe only 3/8" of space between the outside of the door skin and the inside of the ground f/x. Turns out there are few options for screws that won't pierce through the other side, there just simply isn't enough room to easily to what I had planned.

I stopped by a local bodyshop and they suggested using 3m's 8115 panel bonding adhesive, this dude swore by the stuff. After some more research here on pennock's and elsewhere it seems like it oughta do the job.

Because its adhesive and not filler is it easily sandable? I'm asking because although I don't intend on going bananas with it, I'm certain some will squeeze out while its clamped.

Thoughts/suggestions?

I used Fusor 114 to install the Aus Fiero tapered ground effects. It has been 5 plus years and they still look as originally installed. I remember being intimidated about the install, because there were no instructions on the install. The Aus style just sit on the surface of the door panel and I put Fusor on the back edges of the ground effects and then taped and screwed them in place until the adhesive set. Very quick adhesive, I might add. I used aditional fusor to fare the edges to the door panel. The Aus pieces had some twist in them as well. I could only find pics of the finished install.

quote Originally posted by Squeaky: So here's an update: I tried going in the direction I described above however there just simply isn't enough room to play around with screws. Where the existing holes line up on the tapered groundf/x there's maybe only 3/8" of space between the outside of the door skin and the inside of the ground f/x. Turns out there are few options for screws that won't pierce through the other side, there just simply isn't enough room to easily to what I had planned. I stopped by a local bodyshop and they suggested using 3m's 8115 panel bonding adhesive, this dude swore by the stuff. After some more research here on pennock's and elsewhere it seems like it oughta do the job. Because its adhesive and not filler is it easily sandable? I'm asking because although I don't intend on going bananas with it, I'm certain some will squeeze out while its clamped. Thoughts/suggestions?

The 8115 should have been your first and ONLY choice for mounting these. It is an automotive grade adhesive that I use all the time and have never had a failure. It is sandable and paintable.

Here are pics from my build:
This is what the raw adhesive looks like after the excess squeezes out. These are my IMSA fiberglass rockers:



Filled in:



Primed:

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 02-23-2013).]

Looks great!

I've gone ahead and applied the 8115 panel bonding adhesive to the door after some prepwork and have also clamped the ground f/x to the door and rivetted in the bottom. In addtion to the clamps and rivets I placed some lead weights along the top of the ground f/x for additional pressure.

I did this at about 8pm last night, they've been curing for 17-ish hours and still some parts of the adhesive is a bit tacky. The instructions say the clamps can be removed after 4 hours of curing but I'm reluctant to do so. Although the portions that are tacky are where the adhesive is a little thicker, I'm assuming this could be a factor?

I've kept my garage at the recommended temperature and have followed the inctructions to a tee and have since added heat lamps to aid the curing process, should it be taking this long?

Not gonna lie but I'm a bit concerned...

It stays a bit tacky to where your fingernail can dig in but within another day it should be rock hard. If it still is wet, the 8115 didn't mix correctly. Do you have the proper gun or did you estimate the mixture and just press on each tube to dispense it manually?

Awesome, thats relieving to hear! At $50 a tube I was hoping more time would be the remedy. Some areas seem to be making some improvement. I considered buying a gun but their just too expensive and I'm just too cheap. So instead of using some dowels to push out the compounds but I ended up making my own gun, its primitive but effective.

I wish I could find the link, I borrowed the idea from another forum.

I took two cheap caulking guns and stole the ratchet shaft and push plate from one of them and welded it to the other caulking gun's existing ratchet shaft. Joining them so that its now one u-shaped ratchet shaft with both push plates parallel so it pushed out equal amouts of adhesive. I also welded a plate with a guide hole for more rigidity to hold the upper portion of the u-shape in line with the bottom one. The only problem is I can't remove the adhesive cartridge becaue with the guide hole support being welded in and the ratchet shaft being now one piece I can't turn it to release the cartridge.

But for the $10 and 15 minutes of my time to make, I don't mind throwing it out when the cartridge is empty. If I need another tube I'll make another $10 gun.

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: I wouldn't trust SMC adhesive to bond to the RRIM (door) panel. You really need something specifically made for RRIM. Better yet, 'glass some studs to the back of the ground F/X & bolt it on, & you won't have any problems with cracking out in the future. HTH, ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" Custom Fiberglass Parts

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Fiero body repair & paint products - a basic technique & parts number list:
« on: January 14, 2010, 10:45:21 AM »
Folks are always asking about this, so here are some basics & part numbers.
- On the SMC fiberglass (hoods & roof panels), always use a product specifically made for SMC, such as "Vette Panel Adhesive/Filler". I use "Fiberglass Evercoat" part #870. As the name implies, you can use it for filler or for bonding SMC panels - as well as other fiberglass panels. Always grind out the damage (or surface to be bonded) with 24 grit discs. Fill & rough-in using 40 grit, finish with 80 & then 180 (always use some type of block to get the flat surface/contour).
- On the bumpers (which are "RIM"), SEM part #39708 works well. It should also work well on "RRIM" panels - the door skins, fenders, & 1/4 panels. When repairing damage, SLOWLY grind the back of the damage with 24 grit discs. If you grind too fast, you'll melt the material & close the pores & nothing will stick. Chop up some fiberglass mat with scissors into 1/4" strands & mix with the repair material, fill to 1/8" thick at the repair, at least 1" beyond the damage. Once that dries, "V" out the front of the damage/tear with a small grinder using a 24 grit disc. Fill that with the same material; 'glass strands not required but will add strength. Grind/sand/finish down to a final grit of 180 & prime.
- If you need to strip old paint off (only necessary if the car has been painted since it left the factory), you can use chemicals if you're very careful. "Aircraft Stripper" is the best brand name for strong stripper. You can use this on the SMC panels, but be careful not to get any on bare panels/exposed SMC (& follow all instructions). It can also be used on the RRIM, if you're VERY careful not to get any on the bare panel (exposed plastic). "Bumper Stripper" (comes in a spray can) can be used on the RIM (bumpers) & the RRIM panels. You still have to avoid letting it soak into any bare spots. The paint store I use carries the "Bulldog" brand of bumper stripper - product #EUP367.
You only need to use chemicals to save time if the paint is too thick to sand off "eaisly".
- If the paint is not too thick or it still has factory paint (or after you use a chemical stripper), sand it with 180 dry on a DA. Factory paint only needs to be sanded smooth, feathering any edges that go through (or where clear or color is flaking). Hand sand everything you can't get to with the DA, using 180 dry or 320 wet. An alternative if you don't have a DA sander is 180 dry or 320 wet by hand, but it'll take a long time to do the whole car (wet sanding is faster).
- Rough in repairs (fillers) with 40 grit; finish repairs with 80 grit & then smooth somewhat with 180 grit. Don't smooth so much as to dip out the surface below level.
- Cover the entire car with PPG epoxy primer. I use the DP50LF, with DP401LF catalyst. The 401 catalyst is recommended for flexible parts (read the tech sheet it has an induction period). You can use 402 catalyst on everything except the bumpers (no induction period). OR: epoxy prime just the damage/repair areas in order to help the high-build stick (in the next step), & prime the whole car after blocking that out.
- On any filled/repair areas prime with high-build over the epoxy (if your repairs are a little rough). Brand depends on your local paint store. Any good brand-name catalyst-hardened high-build should be fine. You can shoot that over the PPG epoxy within 20 minutes, or wait a couple days. After that, sand the epoxy with 180 wet before shooting the high-build. You can shoot the high-build over the entire panel, if it's wavy & needs blocking to flatten it out. But DON'T build up the high-build very thick on any flexible parts. Block the high-build primer with 180 wet using a paint paddle (on "flat" surfaces) & a dense sponge pad (on the more curved surfaces). I use 3M pads #5526 & Mirror-Glaze pads # E-7200. Use a "guide coat" of flat black spray paint LIGHTLY dusted on the area to show up the imperfections when sanding.
- If you have imperfections that the primer doesn't fill (ie you can still see the guide coat in them after blocking), scratch them out with 80 grit & fill with a good catalyst-hardened putty/glaze; I use "Fiberglass Evercoat" part #416. Final finish that with 180 wet. Always use a paint paddle or sponge pad (or similar block).
- If you have the rest of the car smooth, re-prime just the area of the repairs with the PPG epoxy primer. (Or if you've only epoxy primed the damage, now prime the whole car.) Final sand the whole car with 400 wet & shoot your base/clear. If you REALLY have the car smooth before priming, you can shoot over the epoxy primer after 20 minutes without sanding.
- Type of paint will depend mostly on your budget & local paint store. If you want the best, use top-of-the line PPG (Ditzler) or Sikkens. Be prepared for sticker shock. A good cheaper paint is Dupont Nason. Always use base/clear for the best looking, longest lasting paintjob.
- For buffing, I usually sand the clear starting with 1000 wet (again on paddles & sponge pads) to get it flat. After that, sand with 2000 wet. Alternatives vary with the brands of clear: Sometimes you can just sand it with 1500 dry on a DA & buff. Buff with a white sponge pad (I use 3M Perfect-It #5723) on a buffer using 3M Perfect-It compound #6085 or #6062. On harder clears (or if you haven't sanded out all of the 1000 grit scratches), you may need a higher-cut compound #5936. Final polish with black sponge pads 3M #5725 using a good "machine glaze" (I use 3M #5996 & other similar alternatives) or "Foam Pad Polish".
NOTE: Most sandpapers are pretty much the same as far as grit, except for some cheaper brands which you have to be careful with (1000 wet may leave 800 scratches). Best to buy 3M brand, but to save money ask your supplier about the quality of the sandpaper he stocks.
* Most all aftermarket fiberglass parts will need to be epoxy primed & high-build primed to block them out smooth, then of course a final coat of epoxy to seal it.
* Adding the final coat of epoxy as a sealer also helps with adhesion of the paint. If the surface is smooth, you can start shooting paint over the epoxy without sanding as soon as 20 minutes. If it's not quite smooth (or if you want it really slick) you can wet sand the epoxy primer with 400 before painting.
* I do NOT suggest bonding any parts such as fiberglass to the RIM or RRIM panels. They have vastly different expansion rates & will most likely crack out. You MAY get away with bonding pieces of the same materials together, but the flexible shtuff is still iffy. If you try it, use the above product specifically for that material. ** Slight addendum... I'm making fiberglass fender vents & they seem to work well bonded to the back of the fenders with the SEM part #39708, if you grind the surfaces with a 24 grit disc. I still don't recommend you bond large parts to the plastic panels.
** New info: For the semi-flat black parts (engine vents) SEM (brand name) makes a "Hot Rod black" kit HR010 that has everything but the sandpaper & primer.
***More info: For maximum adhesion on hard plastic parts (like side moldings & interior trim) you need to use a primer specifically made for plastic. I use PPG part #DPX 801 . A light coat (it's very thin) will actually soften the plastic so the paint will melt in. With that any good brand name semi-flat or satin black will stick. "Trim black" & "Bumper Coating" are usually made in a semi-flat formula & should look great. Always try a test panel if you're trying to match another piece.
HTH,
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 01:52:58 PM by Tha Driver »
Logged
I CONFUSED

------------------
~John

'88 GT 5spd White/Beechwood
'00 Corvette vert. 6spd Yellow/Black
'05 Colorado Xtreme Black/Graphite

quote Originally posted by j bf1: I CONFUSED

What about?
For others, that writeup is posted on the Ga. Fiero club forum.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts

What's the best product for mounting fiberglass tapered ground effects? It seems everyone has a different opinion.

[This message has been edited by j bf1 (edited 09-06-2013).]

quote Originally posted by j bf1: What's the best product for mounting fiberglass tapered ground effects? It seems everyone has a different opinion.

It's best not to bond them on at all. I suggested 'glassing some studs on the back of them & bolting them on.
If others have used the products they mentioned with good results, try that.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts

I used some Maxim plastic adhesive/filler on my fiberglass rocker flares to the rockers themselves but those are a different material.
I did rivet them on also but filled the seams with the Maxim.
So far it`s held very well but I think on my tapered ground effects I will take Paul`s advice and fiberglass some studs on the back to hold mine on before moulding them in.

This is what I did on my 87 GT back when I was working in it. Scroll down a bit.

Nolan

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../HTML/000074-16.html